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On October 04 2014 01:16 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 00:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 00:54 Silvana wrote:On October 04 2014 00:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 00:40 Silvana wrote:On October 04 2014 00:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 03 2014 22:59 Castative wrote:On October 03 2014 17:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 03 2014 16:13 fingerwaggin wrote:
Huk? lolwat I am a self admitted Huk hater, but he earned his spot IMO. It could be said that his power rank position displays the utter weakness of the foreign scene at the moment, but I am not ready to admit that. Huk simply has proven results lately, granted in large part through bracket luck but his position in the power rank has a lot of justification behind it. Ehm Bracket luck ? Where would you say he got lucky with the brackets ? You could maybe argue that RedBull atlanta was not too hard of a tourney over all and that his WCS Ro16 group wasnt the hardest and his IEM Toronto Group stage was weaker overall than the other one, but still both his Ro16 group as Toronto bracket were incredibly stacked, ann even on the other had he got very unlucky for example at DH groupstage 3. A group with SoO,Classic and Leenock ? Looks much more like a GSL Ro16 group to me ( except HuK but thats the point ). Bottom line he was not particularly lucky i think. ( not so unlucky either ofc) I was specifically referring to his Ro8 placing in WCS AM Season 3. Which is a much bigger accomplishment than any of his other tournament finishes this year. Group C was by far the weakest in terms of a second place finish. After Bomber, the rest of the members IMO wouldn't have advanced out of any of the other groups. Totally unrelated to the discussion but... what's up with all your ktvindicare stuff and you got a Prime flair???  KT refers to my home World of Warcraft realm, Kel'Thuzad which I've been on since 2004. It doesn't refer to KT Rolster. I never followed the Korean scene closely in Starcraft until I came to Starcraft 2 (Ironic since now that's mostly what I care about), which was after I began using KT in my screen names. But didn't you have the KT flair in the past?? hmm?? traitor  I've never had KT flair on TL. I've alternated between IM flair and Prime flair since we've been able to use team flairs on TL. My favorite KESPA team is actually Jin Air. Prime is Kespa
You know what I mean, shut up. <3
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no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable.
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On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable.
It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL.
I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable.
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lol even sick Flash won gaems this month, next year if he recovers right he will kick ass.
PS: soO on 2nd place, who would guess?
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I've just gotta throw it out there: Winning the GPL isn't good enough to get Jim in the foreigner list?
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On October 04 2014 07:50 Circumstance wrote:
I've just gotta throw it out there: Winning the GPL isn't good enough to get Jim in the foreigner list?
top 5 though? dunno man, he did just recently lose to HuK in head to head games...
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On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable.
If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place.
But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x
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On October 03 2014 22:51 genai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 22:05 GumBa wrote:On October 03 2014 22:02 genai wrote:On October 03 2014 22:01 GumBa wrote:On October 03 2014 21:56 genai wrote:
And what part of that streak came before terran got from worst race to best race? and then go look taeja score while terran was the worst race...and still he wasnt considered the best... and was in fact considered overrated even tho every tournament was either taeja or protoss winning, and if taeja wasnt there, it was 2-3 protoss in top 4... all those incredible the bestests couldnt get even close to anything... losing to weaker players while playing just flat out bad (and still considered best)
and have no idea how can anyone claim maru to be better than taeja, he is not even close in skill... im quite sure that maru would lose to both zest and solar in those games at shenzen... watched plenty of his games, and he is just not that good...
I am actually getting dumber reading what you write. Maru not even close in skill to Taeja lolololol Good luck with that... not one guy said anything that makes sense and makes it invalid... other than "derp derp, its kespa" How about Maru not only being the most consistent but also best terran performer in PL and GSL this year? So how about taeja not only being the most consistent terran in the whole world but also the best terran who won the most games and tournaments in the whole world... playing against same players that are in the final stages of gsl and among the best in PL every time... and he also did it while terran was severely underpowered! But because he didnt compete in gsl and pl, its all worthless... who cares that he won tournament(s) maru couldnt even qualify for... its more telling that he didnt qualify for 1 tournament he didnt even try to enter... If i see maru play like taeja (you know, actual skill in game, not getting wins in "certain environment" that you value more than all other environments, no matter the actual skill), then ill gladly agree... so far what games ive seen from maru were mostly mediocre at best, with some good micro only edit: and im more of a JD fan, and i dont think taeja is god or anything, he is just most skilled player in the world... as in pure skill! playing a lot of games in a day and adapting and outplaying all sorts of players and races without preparation! not the best in preparation type tournaments tho... and somewhat predictable, as he never cheeses and plays majority of his games same "straight up play" way... so he has some nemesis who beat him because of it, but i think its more proof of his skill, that he wins so much anyway (like beating zest in straight up play and even when he didnt even scout his allins, and still just outplayed him, causing zest to fall out of his comfort zone and start making mistakes, while taeja performed perfectly even in those situations)... or later in the finals those insane games against non harassed zerg, and not any zerg... one thats also in final stages of GSL every time... purely on his skill, control and micro alone! I have never seen anyone coming close to that kind of play... flash is more of a robot, playing solid and not doing anything extraordinary, just not making mistakes most of the time... but taeja... he does things that makes you go "wow... how the hell?"
Here, genai, let me help you out:
TaeJa vs the rest of the top 10 in 2014:
vs Zest 5-1
vs INnoVation 4-5
vs Bomber 2-1
vs Solar 4-3
vs Flash 1-3
Total: 16-13 55%
I should maybe remove his loss against INnoVation in a team event since that's a little different, but then of course his rating improves.
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I think Flash still has the best hair. NOW POST THE GSL PREVIEW ARTICLE! (Please).
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btw even though Sen is only 4th in the foreigner list, he is better than any of the korean or foreigner SC2 progamers at Passionstone
Sen is so good at Passionstone he even beat Liquid Amaz for the championship at a tournament
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On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x
You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you?
It isn't a ranking of exact skill level.
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On October 04 2014 11:21 TheDougler wrote:
I think Flash still has the best hair. NOW POST THE GSL PREVIEW ARTICLE! (Please).
Oh, can we do TL best hair list? Please, that would be amazing!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level.
Ranking exact skill level is impossible, there's no such thing.
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On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level.
It's a measure of who is the best player out there right now. However, it's way too easy to confuse simply variance in player results with someone improving/becomng worse, and thus it definitely is appropriate to take past results into account.
But you also need to to assess the probability that bad short-term results can be due to a player actually becoming worse. Honestly, Maru hasn't looked the best terran in quite a few months now, and I therefore wouldn't put him on top 10 either.
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On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level.
There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck.
A shitty NFL team will play 16 games x 3 hours = 50 hours worth of playtime to draw conclusions from.
How many hours do we get of the most prolific players, like soO? Ten? Max.
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On October 04 2014 20:33 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck.
So what? You're still just explaining that you don't understand what a Power Rank is.
Sports websites of all varieties do Power Rankings WEEKLY. Off of as few as ONE GAME per week in the case of the NFL.
They are not meant to be taken as serious measurements of exact skill, they are simply there to provide readers with a general gist of who is performing well at the time of the Power Rank with short term trends playing a far larger impact than long term.
Go read some sports websites, read their Power Rankings. Get a better understanding of what these are supposed to be like.
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On October 04 2014 20:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:33 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck. So what? You're still just explaining that you don't understand what a Power Rank is. Sports websites of all varieties do Power Rankings WEEKLY. Off of as few as ONE GAME per week in the case of the NFL. They are not meant to be taken as serious measurements of exact skill, they are simply there to provide readers with a general gist of who is performing well at the time of the Power Rank with short term trends playing a far larger impact than long term. Go read some sports websites, read their Power Rankings. Get a better understanding of what these are supposed to be like.
I edited my post to clarify my point.
"A shitty NFL team will play 16 games x 3 hours = 50 hours worth of playtime to draw conclusions from.
How many hours do we get of the most prolific players, like soO? Ten? Max."
SC2 doesn't have enough games per player for power rankings to be meaningful the same way they are in other sports.
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On October 04 2014 20:39 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 20:33 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck. So what? You're still just explaining that you don't understand what a Power Rank is. Sports websites of all varieties do Power Rankings WEEKLY. Off of as few as ONE GAME per week in the case of the NFL. They are not meant to be taken as serious measurements of exact skill, they are simply there to provide readers with a general gist of who is performing well at the time of the Power Rank with short term trends playing a far larger impact than long term. Go read some sports websites, read their Power Rankings. Get a better understanding of what these are supposed to be like. I edited my post to clarify my point. "A shitty NFL team will play 16 games x 3 hours = 50 hours worth of playtime to draw conclusions from. How many hours do we get of the most prolific players, like soO? Ten? Max." SC2 doesn't have enough games per player for power rankings to be meaningful the same way they are in other sports.
You're talking 50 hours of playtime over the course of an entire season.
There's definitely comparable number of hours of pro Starcraft players over the course of a year to an NFL team. I should know I spend way more time watching Starcraft than I do even my favorite sport NBA Basketball which has teams playing an 82 game regular season.
The NFL does weekly power rankings off 3 hours of gametime per team per week. TeamLiquid can afford to do monthly power rankings for Starcraft and be just as legitimate.
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On October 04 2014 20:33 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck. A shitty NFL team will play 16 games x 3 hours = 50 hours worth of playtime to draw conclusions from. How many hours do we get of the most prolific players, like soO? Ten? Max.
Winning is all that matters. It is ridiculous to watch someone play and say "oh his play is really good but somehow he loses all the time". Either you win or you lose, HOW you do it is completely irrelevant imo.
Edit: But i agree that a power rank every month might be too much, i think it would be better if you had more games to look at as well.
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On October 04 2014 20:42 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:39 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 20:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 20:33 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 20:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 08:23 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 04 2014 03:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 04 2014 03:49 KalWarkov wrote:
no maru.
sen in top 5 foreigners, happy not.
everything else is acceptable. It's a September Power Ranking, Maru hasn't done anything worthwhile in September other than be eliminated in the Ro16 from GSL. I'm a huge Maru fan, but his being omitted from this Power Rank is completely understandable. If I were personally doing a PR, long-term trends would hold much more sway. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge the exact skill level of all, say, top twenty Korean pros at any given time... so we end up with the silly situation of Maru having one shitty day and vanishing from the top 10. Maru's done with competitive SC2 until 2015 S1, for all intents and purposes, so arguably the best SC2 player in the world will be absent from PR for a stretch of 5-6 months. Probably longer, unless he gets Zest and soO in his RO32 group and gets out in first place. But I'm not personally doing a PR. :x You don't understand what a Power Rank is do you? It isn't a ranking of exact skill level. There just isn't enough SC2 on a month-to-month basis to properly gauge [exactly how well players are performing]. Winning =! performing. A lot of stuff goes into a win that has little/nothing to do with your own performance, including your opponent's performance, and luck. So what? You're still just explaining that you don't understand what a Power Rank is. Sports websites of all varieties do Power Rankings WEEKLY. Off of as few as ONE GAME per week in the case of the NFL. They are not meant to be taken as serious measurements of exact skill, they are simply there to provide readers with a general gist of who is performing well at the time of the Power Rank with short term trends playing a far larger impact than long term. Go read some sports websites, read their Power Rankings. Get a better understanding of what these are supposed to be like. I edited my post to clarify my point. "A shitty NFL team will play 16 games x 3 hours = 50 hours worth of playtime to draw conclusions from. How many hours do we get of the most prolific players, like soO? Ten? Max." SC2 doesn't have enough games per player for power rankings to be meaningful the same way they are in other sports. You're talking 50 hours of playtime over the course of an entire season. There's definitely comparable number of hours of pro Starcraft players over the course of a year to an NFL team. I should know I spend way more time watching Starcraft than I do even my favorite sport NBA Basketball which has teams playing an 82 game regular season.
It's not about the season, it's about the player. If there are a thousand players and each one plays a single hour-long game, there's going to be a lot of SC2 to watch, but the power ranking won't be worth shit because a thousand things could have gone wrong in that game. I understand that power rankings don't intend to measure raw skill, but they do intend to measure something -- I'm guessing they're meant to have some sort of predictive power? (If I'm wrong, please set me straight!) The fewer games you play, the less accurate it'll be.
My criticism was simply that some very good players are not playing enough SC2 for us to know where to place them this particular season so as to predict, to any degree, their success in the next season.
You watch more sports than I do and it shows. I'm caught wrong-footed here. But I feel intuitively that I've got a point... maybe.
The NFL does weekly power rankings off 3 hours of gametime per team per week. TeamLiquid can afford to do monthly power rankings for Starcraft and be just as legitimate.
Very interesting. That's... very... frequent.
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EPT
