EPTBlizzard's thoughts on Swarm Hosts - Page 39
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 13 2014 07:32 tadL wrote: well if both have a (in my eyes) boring as hell unit and they spam each other with it, yes this can be anoying. simple fix, dont allow locus to attack other locus. not even block each other. And the logic of that would be? How can locus be punched and shot at by psi blades and bullets but untouchable by claws and spit? | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
and i bet there is already a answer to your question in the warhammer universe that blizzard forgot to steal. ps: and my suggestion stands : locus can not attack other locus. problem fixed. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 13 2014 07:38 tadL wrote: how can zerg and protoss get spash damage units that do no damage to their own units? as terran are not able to create shells that will not harm their own armor...and you talk about logic in a scifi game. and i bet there is already a answer to your question in the warhammer universe that blizzard forgot to steal. ps: and my suggestion stands : locus can not attack other locus. problem fixed. I wasn't talking about logic, I was talking about consistency. Banelings don't hit allied units, but they do hit enemy units. Colossus don't hit allied units, but they do hit enemy units. Terran have more friendly fire damage than either Zerg or Protoss due to their design as a race (technologically behind) and was something grandfathered in from Broodwar. But I would like to ask you why Hydralisks know how to hit locust but locust don't know how to hit locust. That is the inconsistency. | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
the point of locus vs locus being endless game is cause a wall of locus is fighting against each other and the only real shot you get are between the waves. but this can be negated by infestors. and if you want to take air advantage you need mutas. but corruptors are just way to strong against other air units so the player who decides going air needs corrupters too and than is count will always be lower. so the idea is to just let locus ignore locus. they just pass each other and attack other units. Than we have your "consitancy" pseudo argument. Locus dont hit Locus but they do hit non-locus. Works kind of. But thats not the interesting point. Its just a terrible way to argue in this topic. We want to fix this fights so let ignore locus each other. So the fights will end in the waves and waves will not negate each other. Yes this could lead to remove locus from the zvz and we stick to the roach vs roach war that we had for ever. And how to explain it. Well locus are so stupid, I mean they are already range and like marauders so braindead that they cant shoot up. So Blizzard already provides the solution. Or Corrupters are not able to shoot down but they can spit the green toxic on ground units? Yes consistency. ps: so fix zvz: locus cant attack locus fix zvx: nerf curropter damage vs air and i dont see a problem in zvz. its way better than watching the next roach vs roach mass war. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 13 2014 08:08 tadL wrote: well and ultralisk splash magically does not hit friendly units even if they stand in front of it. Cause of advance technology? It makes no sense right that the big claws magicly miss the other ultras. Sry I dont agree on this at all. And yes I understand that from a game perspective banelings have to stay seperated. but collosi/ultras? storm is damaging everything and thats nice. but this is not the discussions point. the point of locus vs locus being endless game is cause a wall of locus is fighting against each other and the only real shot you get are between the waves. but this can be negated by infestors. and if you want to take air advantage you need mutas. but corruptors are just way to strong against other air units so the player who decides going air needs corrupters too and than is count will always be lower. so the idea is to just let locus ignore locus. they just pass each other and attack other units. Than we have your "consitancy" pseudo argument. Locus dont hit Locus but they do hit non-locus. Works kind of. But thats not the interesting point. Its just a terrible way to argue in this topic. We want to fix this fights so let ignore locus each other. So the fights will end in the waves and waves will not negate each other. Yes this could lead to remove locus from the zvz and we stick to the roach vs roach war that we had for ever. And how to explain it. Well locus are so stupid, I mean they are already range and like marauders so braindead that they cant shoot up. So Blizzard already provides the solution. Or Corrupters are not able to shoot down but they can spit the green toxic on ground units? Yes consistency. ps: so fix zvz: locus cant attack locus fix zvx: nerf curropter damage vs air and i dont see a problem in zvz. its way better than watching the next roach vs roach mass war. Ultras don't hit each other because they try not to hit each other when fighting. When given the direct order to hit each other they will. When fighting other ultralisks, they not only hit each other but they splash enemy ultralisks. Banelings might not splash each other but you can give a baneling a direct order to attack a friendly unit and he will explode and deal damage. Locus ignoring Locus makes absolutely no sense because why would a unit's attack specifically be arbitrarily unable to attack enemy units. | ||
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Tipany
United States368 Posts
On May 13 2014 07:32 tadL wrote: well if both have a (in my eyes) boring as hell unit and they spam each other with it, yes this can be anoying. simple fix, dont allow locus to attack other locus. not even block each other. That's a really stupid idea, sorry. | ||
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jojamon
133 Posts
1) Once SH's unburrow, any spawned locusts die instantly. This makes sense to me as a siege unit...since when tanks are siegeing/unsiegeing, they have a 3 second vulnerable time. Siege units are supposed to have long range but lack mobility. When you give SH's the ability to burrow (cloak), which already makes it harder for the enemy to target them down, then you spawn a wave of tanky units that can cover your escape while you run away? I think that's honestly ridiculous. Swarm hosts aren't that expensive either...200/100/3, vs a tank, 150/125/3.... Not to mention Swarm hosts also run pretty damn fast on creep, while tanks are slow as crap and huge and get bugged up with pathing running through choke points... 2) In ZvZ, maybe make locusts walk faster only on your own creep? So if you have a creep tumor within proximity of your locusts, they'll move faster, but if you're on enemy creep, your locusts don't get the speed buff. This will hopefully help with players being more active to kill creep tumors and spread their own creep so their locusts can get into a better concave first. I think idea 1) would work, idea 2) probably not....Urgh...overall SH's just are a really strangely designed siege unit. | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
I know my suggestion is strange. But not allowing locus to attack other locus is the easiest way to remove the stagnation that happens if sh fight against sh. Who has more will just whipe the rest of the enemy army and who has the air control can keep vision up so enemy sh will die. Locus can still attack sh. So this would make the matchup kind of a tvt, viking tank thingy with positioning, fighting on 2 levels and not just multiple diractions. Or zergs just go again for broodlord/curropter to counter sh ^^ | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
1) Once SH's unburrow, any spawned locusts die instantly. This makes sense to me as a siege unit...since when tanks are siegeing/unsiegeing, they have a 3 second vulnerable time. Siege units are supposed to have long range but lack mobility. When you give SH's the ability to burrow (cloak), which already makes it harder for the enemy to target them down, then you spawn a wave of tanky units that can cover your escape while you run away? I think that's honestly ridiculous. Swarm hosts aren't that expensive either...200/100/3, vs a tank, 150/125/3.... Not to mention Swarm hosts also run pretty damn fast on creep, while tanks are slow as crap and huge and get bugged up with pathing running through choke points... Pretty ugly idea. The main design point of SH was to send locusts while SH is relocationg or retreating | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 13 2014 12:37 Existor wrote: Pretty ugly idea. The main design point of SH was to send locusts while SH is relocationg or retreating Could be tinkered with to make the burrow / unburrow timing last longer. Then again, this doesn't do anything vs the constant stalemate crap. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 13 2014 17:11 Thieving Magpie wrote: Is there a way to use mass blinding clouds to effectively neuter locus play? Not really, the locusts just move forward further. You have to get somewht close to cast it, by that point, the other player will abduct you in. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
Is there a way to use mass blinding clouds to effectively neuter locus play? Maybe if you gave Locust a minimum range similar to Siege Mode. Problem is that Blinding Cloud also effect your own units. I mean if they're looking for an easy fix, I'd suggest probably removing upgrades from them, they already did it with Infested Terrans and Auto Turrets cannot get upgraded in attack, Broodlings does however still benefit from upgrades, so it wouldn't be a total consistency for all summoned units. If you want it pretty, it's not gonna be an easy fix though. | ||
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rivurivurivurivu
Sweden140 Posts
i think is easier to deal with a free meele unit. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
Do this and even with the free units concept it becomes an interesting unit. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 13 2014 17:55 starslayer wrote: how about SH have to unburrow to release locust but can still only spawn 2 locust (no locust stacking only 2 at a time) making them more hit and run units rather set em and forgot em units as they are now making them have to use more micro making it a little hard to mass as it would be pretty hard/annoying to keep burrowing/unburrowing just to keep attacking one spot. or my favorite idea take away locust upgrades like infested terrans so the other races can attack into locust without it being such a lose That's absolutly not the problem. At all the higher levels, opponents are quite good at forcing movement/rerally out of them and Zergs are repositioning them all the time anyways, unless they actually want to siege/defend a particular location with them. Also there is no reason to nerf them against Protoss, unless you want the matchup to become imbalanced. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On May 13 2014 07:50 Thieving Magpie wrote: I wasn't talking about logic, I was talking about consistency. Banelings don't hit allied units, but they do hit enemy units. Colossus don't hit allied units, but they do hit enemy units. Terran have more friendly fire damage than either Zerg or Protoss due to their design as a race (technologically behind) and was something grandfathered in from Broodwar. But I would like to ask you why Hydralisks know how to hit locust but locust don't know how to hit locust. That is the inconsistency. Locusts are now pink. Locusts cannot see pink. Thus locusts are now invisible to each other. Tada! I can't believe this is actually a real discussion, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On May 13 2014 17:11 Thieving Magpie wrote: Is there a way to use mass blinding clouds to effectively neuter locus play? If Blinding Cloud was dark swarm which it should've been in the first place, yes. Another thing you could change for them is only have them spawn locusts when they have something targeted, which would require you to have vision of an area before you could start randomly spamming free units everywhere. | ||
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