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Dear Starcraft II community,
My name is Sebastien « Kerri », I am the Starcraft II Tournament Director at O’Gaming TV.
France has one of the biggest community in Europe and is very structured thanks to two very professional TVs: O’Gaming TV & Millenium TV. You probably know us and you already followed our different products: Dailymotion Cup , NationWars, MSI Pro Cup, Numericable M-House Cup, Iron Squid I & II. We made the best players come in our country, we gave to the Starcraft II fans the best shows and gathered the French-speaking countries on high-quality streams.
O’Gaming, aAa – which was in charge of casting WCS in 2013 - and Millenium have recently wanted to build a partnership and to work together to apply for casting in French WCS Europe. This Partnership is for us the best way to enable all our fans meet the biggest SC2 competition with all the best French casters.
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
We love Starcraft II. We love E-Sport. We love WCS. If you support our work, I kindly invite you to share this post !
Original Facebook post
![[image loading]](https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/12093_725463197487264_745870993_n.jpg)
#WCSenFrancais
RGDS
Kerri
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As one of the best French team, we do agree with your request and we support you
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Looks like ESL want to have those viewers by themself
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finally an initiative!
"la première ligue" -__-
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On February 15 2014 05:01 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Looks like ESL want to have those viewers by themself
Rather "Blizzard & Twitch" association.
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title should be "A WCS Stream for the French-Speaking viewers"
On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
O’Gaming, aAa – which was in charge of casting WCS in 2013 - and Millenium have recently wanted to build a partnership and to work together to apply for casting in French WCS Europe.
that's huge considering the current state of french gaming tv streaming channels
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This post is a little bit misleading as it doesn't mention what the dispute is in the first place, so allow me to explain for those who don't know. If any part of this is wrong, please feel free to correct me:
The most popular french streams, those interested in covering this event, are all users of the streaming platform Dailymotion. Blizzard has an exclucivity agreement (and has since the beginning of 2013 if I remember correctly) with Twitch. This isn't a matter of someone trying to fuck over the French scene, this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
As long as the French streams continue to broadcast only on Dailymotion, or as long as the WCS-Twitch partnership exists, there simply won't be French scenes. It's very unfortunate, but perfectly understandable from Blizzard's perspective.
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I really don't like French casters but I don't see why there couldn't be a French stream..
Edit : Oh nvm, ^ this explains it 
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Last Year, aAa/Millenium/Ogaming Stream for WCS Finals Season 3 had a peak at 8k5 viewers and were like 7k during the whole week end ! We deserve a (great) French Stream too (plz), Blizzard!
#WCSenFrancais !!!!
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Please Blizzard, ESL doesn't develop E-Sport in France like Millenium, OgamingTV or Team-aAa are doing.
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I'd like to know why ESL doesnt allow it. If its because they dont want to use twitch then they have no shot at all.
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I don't watch WCS in french but I know a lot of my friends do. Common Carmac, you can do better than that, weren't you the one saying France had a very good community ? I see really no reason for ESL to forbid anything.
#WCSenFrancais
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On February 15 2014 05:16 PengWin_SC wrote:
this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
Dailymotion has a higher CPM for french audience
MilleniumTV has been sponsored by DM for long
Ogaming only switched from twitch to DM recently, but just because of the higher CPM, no sponsoring AFAIK
monopoly suxx
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PengWin is right about the reason. Dailymotion actually pays better the streamers, which is why most French eSports streams are hosted on that platform.
It would be a real shame. French main structures (aAa, Millenium and O'Gaming) love eSports and StarCraft II, and make huge efforts to produce original content for the community.
Please, ESL, I hope you reconsider your position, please.
#WCSenFrancais
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Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that
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On February 15 2014 05:16 PengWin_SC wrote:
This post is a little bit misleading as it doesn't mention what the dispute is in the first place, so allow me to explain for those who don't know. If any part of this is wrong, please feel free to correct me:
The most popular french streams, those interested in covering this event, are all users of the streaming platform Dailymotion. Blizzard has an exclucivity agreement (and has since the beginning of 2013 if I remember correctly) with Twitch. This isn't a matter of someone trying to fuck over the French scene, this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
As long as the French streams continue to broadcast only on Dailymotion, or as long as the WCS-Twitch partnership exists, there simply won't be French scenes. It's very unfortunate, but perfectly understandable from Blizzard's perspective.
But Blizzard said that you can ask permission from blizzard so they can stream in other platforms than Twitch..
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I don't think ESL has any say in this, especially if the matter of disagreement is the blizzard/twitch relationship. Blizzard has no reason not to provide a French stream, they just want to cash in the viewers and for that they most likely need it to be streamed on twitch.
Also you can just go ahead and restream with french voice-over on dailymotion even if it's "illegal" who will Blizzard sue ?
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But Blizzard said that you can ask permission from blizzard so they can stream in other platforms than Twitch..
you are right
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I don't think it's ESL's call, right? As stated above, it seems to be more on Blizzard/Twitch's end with regards to exclusivity.
Unless I'm missing something (and I might very well be!), either Blizzard will have to burn Twitch (unlikely) or the French broadcast will have to happen on Twitch.
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On February 15 2014 05:29 NovaMB wrote:
Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that
On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
ESL decision, not Blizzard or Twitch. 
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On February 15 2014 05:32 SC2Kerri wrote:Show nested quote +But Blizzard said that you can ask permission from blizzard so they can stream in other platforms than Twitch.. you are right
So why on earth would you ask ESL instead?
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Thanks for screwing us, again..
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On February 15 2014 05:35 JahVidi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:29 NovaMB wrote:
Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
ESL decision, not Blizzard or Twitch.
Blizzard made the contracts with twitch. ESL has a contract with Blizzard. Talk to Blizzard
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On February 15 2014 05:35 myxoma_strain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:32 SC2Kerri wrote:But Blizzard said that you can ask permission from blizzard so they can stream in other platforms than Twitch.. you are right So why on earth would you ask ESL instead?
Maybe only organizer can ask permission? ESL is organizing WCS EU.
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On February 15 2014 05:39 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:35 JahVidi wrote:On February 15 2014 05:29 NovaMB wrote:
Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
ESL decision, not Blizzard or Twitch. Blizzard made the contracts with twitch. ESL has a contract with Blizzard. Talk to Blizzard
Millenium, O'Gaming and aAa have had a ton of appointments at Blizzard HQ to talk about that.
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On February 15 2014 05:40 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:39 NovaMB wrote:On February 15 2014 05:35 JahVidi wrote:On February 15 2014 05:29 NovaMB wrote:
Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
ESL decision, not Blizzard or Twitch. Blizzard made the contracts with twitch. ESL has a contract with Blizzard. Talk to Blizzard Millenium, O'Gaming and aAa have had a ton of appointments at Blizzard HQ to talk about that.
Well if Blizzard doesnt allow it, I dont know what ESL is supposed to do here.
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On February 15 2014 05:42 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:40 Boucot wrote:On February 15 2014 05:39 NovaMB wrote:On February 15 2014 05:35 JahVidi wrote:On February 15 2014 05:29 NovaMB wrote:
Talk with Blizzard then, they made the decision to go twitch exclusive, cant blame ESL for that On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
ESL decision, not Blizzard or Twitch. Blizzard made the contracts with twitch. ESL has a contract with Blizzard. Talk to Blizzard Millenium, O'Gaming and aAa have had a ton of appointments at Blizzard HQ to talk about that. Well if Blizzard doesnt allow it, I dont know what ESL is supposed to do here.
If i understand correctly, blizzard does allow it, but ESL, organiser of the matches, won't let the french streamers in the lobby
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Hahaha so funny, if I understand well, France just has to use Twitch instead of Dailymorion that's right?
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Seriously Blizzard ? What's wrong with a French stream ? The french structures are making a lot of events (Iron squid, Dailymotion cup, Numericable Cup ...) and you just say : "Hello French people/structures, don't care about you, Bye" just because you have some kind of agreement with Twitch ?
So people who love French casters and/or don't understand other languages can't really enjoy WCS ... Well it seems legit now that it is said like this.
Bouuh blizzard ... bouhhh
#WCSenFrancais !
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On February 15 2014 05:16 PengWin_SC wrote:
This post is a little bit misleading as it doesn't mention what the dispute is in the first place, so allow me to explain for those who don't know. If any part of this is wrong, please feel free to correct me:
The most popular french streams, those interested in covering this event, are all users of the streaming platform Dailymotion. Blizzard has an exclucivity agreement (and has since the beginning of 2013 if I remember correctly) with Twitch. This isn't a matter of someone trying to fuck over the French scene, this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
As long as the French streams continue to broadcast only on Dailymotion, or as long as the WCS-Twitch partnership exists, there simply won't be French scenes. It's very unfortunate, but perfectly understandable from Blizzard's perspective.
Thank you Pengwin, that clears it up a little. I hope a deal can be made, would be a shame for our frenchies if there wasn't a stream for them 
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Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want?
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United States33330 Posts
so is it 100% due to the dailymotion/twitch conflict or what
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On February 15 2014 05:54 AWalker9 wrote:
Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want?
Sure, but Dailymotion is much better than Twitch in France for viewers. You pretty much never have lag issues if you have a good connection.
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On February 15 2014 05:54 AWalker9 wrote:
Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want?
They all use Dailymotion for a reason don't you think ? Dailymotion is a big sponsor of Millenium for example ...
It's like you're saying : "Bomber should drink energy drink Monster ... ".
Plus, just picture the scene... French casters speaking and during the stream (on Twitch) they all have Dailymotion on their shirts .... I recognize that it would be fun, but you see the point ... you can't really turn your back on big sponsors...
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On February 15 2014 05:57 Waxangel wrote:
so is it 100% due to the dailymotion/twitch conflict or what
Apparently it's not.
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On February 15 2014 05:57 Waxangel wrote:
so is it 100% due to the dailymotion/twitch conflict or what
Apparently not, but I feel like if they're asking people to support something while they're pretty much condemning ESL with their language they should at least tell us what the issue is.
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On February 15 2014 06:04 PengWin_SC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:57 Waxangel wrote:
so is it 100% due to the dailymotion/twitch conflict or what Apparently not, but I feel like if they're asking people to support something while they're pretty much condemning ESL with their language they should at least tell us what the issue is.
I'm kinda confused right now. What EXACTLY is the issue now? o_O
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On February 15 2014 05:54 AWalker9 wrote:
Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want?
There is already problem if you are only allowed to use Twitch.....
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All hail the Frenchies. May ESL have a change of heart.
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On February 15 2014 05:54 AWalker9 wrote:
Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want?
it's a webTV, they run 24/7 (planning rest is restreams) they can't just tell people to switch just for WCS
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On February 15 2014 06:11 miniskirt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:54 AWalker9 wrote:
Couldn't the French streams just use Twitch for WCS and then Dailymotion for whatever else they want? it's a webTV, they run 24/7 ( planning rest is restreams) they can't just tell people to switch just for WCS
Well if they so desperatly want to broadcast WCS...?
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I just remember that Llewellys recently said that Blizzard/ESL told Millenium/aAa/O'Gaming that they could stream the Premier League but not the Challenger. Now they can't stream either of them.
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Just stream on the fking twitch omg.
Millenium streamed IEM Sao Paulo ( for their LoL team) on twitch one month ago.
So what's the problem why not do the same for WCS EU???
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On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:
Just stream on the fking twitch omg.
Millenium streamed IEM Sao Paulo ( for their LoL team) on twitch one month ago.
So what's the problem why not do the same for WCS EU???
Because the problem is not Dailymotion or Twitch. This is just a supposition. At this time, only ESL knows why French structure can't stream WCS.
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On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg.
this isn't the issue
the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french
germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly)
give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience
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On February 15 2014 06:26 miniskirt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg. this isn't the issue the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly) give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience
Ok so why try to negociate with ESL... You should ask blizzrad instead.
And I think your thinking is actually wrong.
Let's assume German are English speakers and french not (which is obviously not true at all):
No german stream Germans don't care and go on English stream.
ESL happy ESL moar money.
No french stream French are sad and don't watch WCS
Changes nothing for ESL so far.
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On February 15 2014 06:30 Foudzing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 06:26 miniskirt wrote:On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg. this isn't the issue the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly) give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience Ok so why try to negociate with ESL... You should ask blizzrad instead.
they seem to have did so the past year on numerous occasion, but blizz seem to not step in
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On February 15 2014 06:26 miniskirt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg. this isn't the issue the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly) give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience
Then maybe they should "buy" license from ESL to stream WCS. Like how TV channels work.
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On February 15 2014 06:34 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 06:26 miniskirt wrote:On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg. this isn't the issue the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly) give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience Then maybe they should "buy" license from ESL to stream WCS. Like how TV channels work.
blizzard owns WCS, not esl :/
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On February 15 2014 06:36 miniskirt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 06:34 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On February 15 2014 06:26 miniskirt wrote:On February 15 2014 06:20 Foudzing wrote:Just stream on the fking twitch omg. this isn't the issue the two largest audience for WCS are germans and french germans have their own stream cause they are english literate and they're going to keep watching esl stream anyway (mainly) give the french a stream and ESL loses 40% of their audience Then maybe they should "buy" license from ESL to stream WCS. Like how TV channels work. blizzard owns WCS, not esl :/
Yes I know that. We don't know what kind of deal ESL and Blizzard have.
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On February 15 2014 06:30 Foudzing wrote:
Let's assume German are English speakers and french not (which is obviously not true at all):
No german stream Germans don't care and go on English stream.
ESL happy ESL moar money.
No french stream French are sad and don't watch WCS
Changes nothing for ESL so far.
And since many of them understand english, they would simply watch the english stream -> more viewers for ESL.
For those who can't understand english or would refuse to watch the official stream for whatever reason, too bad for them.
And those who can't bear watching (and hearing) a french stream, or who prefer english casts, are not affected at all.
This does affect *some* french viewers, and I guess it'd be nice if they had a french stream, but it should not be presented as a general case for *all* french viewers.
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On February 15 2014 05:16 PengWin_SC wrote:
This post is a little bit misleading as it doesn't mention what the dispute is in the first place, so allow me to explain for those who don't know. If any part of this is wrong, please feel free to correct me:
The most popular french streams, those interested in covering this event, are all users of the streaming platform Dailymotion. Blizzard has an exclucivity agreement (and has since the beginning of 2013 if I remember correctly) with Twitch. This isn't a matter of someone trying to fuck over the French scene, this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
As long as the French streams continue to broadcast only on Dailymotion, or as long as the WCS-Twitch partnership exists, there simply won't be French scenes. It's very unfortunate, but perfectly understandable from Blizzard's perspective.
Kind of funny that the OP doesn't mention anything about this at all...
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On February 15 2014 06:49 Penguinator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 05:16 PengWin_SC wrote:
This post is a little bit misleading as it doesn't mention what the dispute is in the first place, so allow me to explain for those who don't know. If any part of this is wrong, please feel free to correct me:
The most popular french streams, those interested in covering this event, are all users of the streaming platform Dailymotion. Blizzard has an exclucivity agreement (and has since the beginning of 2013 if I remember correctly) with Twitch. This isn't a matter of someone trying to fuck over the French scene, this is purely and simply the French streams not agreeing to use Twitch for whatever reason (maybe they're sponsored by Dailymotion or something, I don't know).
As long as the French streams continue to broadcast only on Dailymotion, or as long as the WCS-Twitch partnership exists, there simply won't be French scenes. It's very unfortunate, but perfectly understandable from Blizzard's perspective. Kind of funny that the OP doesn't mention anything about this at all...
on reddit
Kerri: We already streamed on twitch before in a similar case, this is clearly not the issue here.
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if it's not about dailymotion then why would they ban the french stream ?
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On February 15 2014 06:56 Makro wrote:
if it's not about dailymotion then why would they ban the french stream ?
Why would ESL accept to give away for free a significant (?) part of its viewer and revenue ?
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This is a pathetic thread, SC2Kerri.
Asking people to share this post and not even commenting on the problem makes you look very bad.
I have no idea if ESL has a reasonable course here but it certainly looks that way if you can't even elaborate on the problem.
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Because, as it's been pointed out multiple times, French Organizations have previously already broadcasted multiple events on twitch, then it might be a revenue sharing issue in this case.
This is pure speculation here. But ESL might have wanted the revenues generated from French streams, while the French organizers wanted to keep the revenue, since they were the ones providing the service. Since French organizers wouldn't give up the rights to the revenues, ESL denied them?
I repeat, this is pure speculation on the issue. If it wasn't a streaming platform issue, that is.
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But why would French organization agree to stream other championships on stream (IEM / Dreamhack... etc..) and not WCS ? That makes no-sense. Except if you believe that our french community makes drama to make drama... as a french i don't hink so but well.
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Isn't there polish, german and russian stream already in addition to the english stream for wcs? What could be the problem for a french stream? I need more informations to have a real opinion there.. To be fair, I'm french, I always watch the english stream but open the french stream and keep it muted to support them.
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On February 15 2014 07:30 Ishentar wrote:
But why would French organization agree to stream other championships on stream (IEM / Dreamhack... etc..) and not WCS ? That makes no-sense. Except if you believe that our french community makes drama to make drama... as a french i don't hink so but well.
Perhaps IEM and Dreamhack allowed them to keep a greater portion of the revenue their French stream generated?
Really, the more I talk about this, the more I'm convinced that there's WAY too many variables for just speculation to account for. We really need a concrete explanation of WHY these French broadcasting rights were denied.
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BOYCOTT ESL (le site et leur stream) ! QU'IL AILLENT CE FAIRE PHOQUE !
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/fr.png)
! VIVE LA FRANCE !
User was warned for this post
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Yes, I think that until we have an official statement about that giving a reason of why french organizations aren't allowed to stream, any discussion will be nearly pointless
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On February 15 2014 07:40 Ishentar wrote:
Yes, I think that until we have an official statement about that giving a reason of why french organizations aren't allowed to stream, any discussion will be nearly pointless
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On February 15 2014 07:40 Ishentar wrote:
Yes, I think that until we have an official statement about that giving a reason of why french organizations aren't allowed to stream, any discussion will be nearly pointless
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On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
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On February 15 2014 07:40 Ishentar wrote:
Yes, I think that until we have an official statement about that giving a reason of why french organizations aren't allowed to stream, any discussion will be nearly pointless
Indeed, although if this is how they go about doing business behind closed doors I don't think I'd be interested in playing nice with them either. This comes over as very childish in the OP.
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The problem is not twitch or dailymotion.
The fact is that ESL claiming a percentage of income that generate the stream of wcs on millenium or ogaming. The fact is that ESL is too greedy.
So in the end it's all a question of money.
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On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Dear Starcraft II community,
My name is Sebastien « Kerri », I am the Starcraft II Tournament Director at O’Gaming TV.
France has one of the biggest community in Europe and is very structured thanks to two very professional TVs: O’Gaming TV & Millenium TV. You probably know us and you already followed our different products: Dailymotion Cup , NationWars, MSI Pro Cup, Numericable M-House Cup, Iron Squid I & II. We made the best players come in our country, we gave to the Starcraft II fans the best shows and gathered the French-speaking countries on high-quality streams.
O’Gaming, aAa – which was in charge of casting WCS in 2013 - and Millenium have recently wanted to build a partnership and to work together to apply for casting in French WCS Europe. This Partnership is for us the best way to enable all our fans meet the biggest SC2 competition with all the best French casters.
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
So now we have two completely conflicting statements. However, if O'Gaming wont broadcast when Carmac has said they are free to do so, then I'm more inclined to believe O'Gaming. If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
At the same time, Michal is probably much higher up on the ladder than Sebastien is, so his word does carry a bit more weight.
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On February 15 2014 07:57 dabom88 wrote: If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
the reason is that they would probably make more money streaming lol or anything on DM than WCS on twitch, despite wanting to provide a french WCS stream
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ESL Official statement
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1xxb78/no_french_stream_allowed_for_wcs/cffjm02
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On February 15 2014 07:54 iknowthetrue wrote:
The problem is not twitch or dailymotion.
The fact is that ESL claiming a percentage of income that generate the stream of wcs on millenium or ogaming. The fact is that ESL is too greedy.
So in the end it's all a question of money.
And what evidence do you have of this? We've been told literally nothing about the cause for this supposed "Ban". Stop being a conspiracy theorist.
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I have my sources.
I dont need evidence.
Believe me or not I do not care, I just told you the real reason.
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If that is true, then why wouldn't Ogaming come out and say that instead of inventing the lie that all French organizations are banned?
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On February 15 2014 10:59 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
If that is true, then why wouldn't Ogaming come out and say that instead of inventing the lie that all French organizations are banned?
i don't know if what iknowthetrue is saying is true, but if it's the case then kere made a very bad manoeuvre in his communication :/
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On February 15 2014 11:19 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 10:59 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
If that is true, then why wouldn't Ogaming come out and say that instead of inventing the lie that all French organizations are banned? i don't know if what iknowthetrue is saying is true, but if it's the case then kere made a very bad manoeuvre in his communication :/
Just look at his username, post count, posts, and refusal to give any evidence or sources. He's most likely just some troll who made an account just to stir up controversy about this topic.
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On February 15 2014 10:44 iknowthetrue wrote:
I have my sources.
I dont need evidence.
Believe me or not I do not care, I just told you the real reason.
Rofl. Nice try though. :D
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On February 15 2014 10:44 iknowthetrue wrote:
I have my sources.
I dont need evidence.
Believe me or not I do not care, I just told you the real reason.
yeaaaaa ... no
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Is this still the Twitch TV problem? Why is it so hard for the french stream to accept that they have to use twitch? Or am I misunderstanding something?
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On February 15 2014 21:05 Big-t wrote:
Is this still the Twitch TV problem? Why is it so hard for the french stream to accept that they have to use twitch? Or am I misunderstanding something?
Twitch is pretty bad in France, we have huge issues with it, it's lagging even if you have a great connection. If you have the wrong Internet Provider you can't watch Twitch whereas Dailymotion is great for French.
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Doesn't this whole situation go back to 2013 when Millenium has resigned from casting WCS, because they were barred from using their own stream? I think the reasons here are the same.
So now we have two completely conflicting statements. However, if O'Gaming wont broadcast when Carmac has said they are free to do so, then I'm more inclined to believe O'Gaming. If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
In my opinion the only reason possible, is that they are bound by contract with Dailymotion. Probably they were trying to convince ESL up to the very last moment, however when it failed seems like they decided to try sending pitchfork mob at them. At least, this is how it looks to me.
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On February 15 2014 21:43 Roman666 wrote:Doesn't this whole situation go back to 2013 when Millenium has resigned from casting WCS, because they were barred from using their own stream? I think the reasons here are the same. Show nested quote +
So now we have two completely conflicting statements. However, if O'Gaming wont broadcast when Carmac has said they are free to do so, then I'm more inclined to believe O'Gaming. If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
In my opinion the only reason possible, is that they are bound by contract with Dailymotion. Probably they were trying to convince ESL up to the very last moment, however when it failed seems like they decided to try sending pitchfork mob at them. At least, this is how it looks to me.
That was ESL Euro Series.
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On February 15 2014 21:48 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 21:43 Roman666 wrote:Doesn't this whole situation go back to 2013 when Millenium has resigned from casting WCS, because they were barred from using their own stream? I think the reasons here are the same.
So now we have two completely conflicting statements. However, if O'Gaming wont broadcast when Carmac has said they are free to do so, then I'm more inclined to believe O'Gaming. If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
In my opinion the only reason possible, is that they are bound by contract with Dailymotion. Probably they were trying to convince ESL up to the very last moment, however when it failed seems like they decided to try sending pitchfork mob at them. At least, this is how it looks to me. That was ESL Euro Series.
Ah sorry, got it mixed up.
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Blizzard pays ESL to organize EU imposes WCS but I repeat only ESL stream on twitch because blizzard has a contract with only twitch .
Ogaming Millenium and can stream wcs on dailymotion if they want .
But whether on stream twitch or dailymotion , Ogaming and Millennium must have the permission of ESL .
And that is the problem.
Ogaming and Millenium want stream on dailymotion because they lose money on using twitch more and France twich lag to death.
As neither blizzard nor imposes no twitch twitch except for the stream on ESL .
Knowing that Ogaming and Millenium lose money on twitch and twitch lag in France , knowing that all this does ultimately that hurt the sc2 scene , why impose ESL seen twitch despite all this?
Ask yourself this question .
ESL says it does not prevent Ogamin and millenium stream of wcs , but all the same back that prevent stream .
And once or twitch or blizzard requires ESL prevent Ogamin and millenium of stream on dailymotion , only ESL decided that.
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Well, it is simply not true that ESL forbidds them to stream WCS. That is a lie to get attention.
Its just a rule that it needs to be on twitch.
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On February 16 2014 01:16 Pyloss wrote:
Well, it is simply not true that ESL forbidds them to stream WCS. That is a lie to get attention.
Its just a rule that it needs to be on twitch.
It is not a rule, as said in the original blizzard post, arrangments can be made for non twitch stream.
We will fight!
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Meh... People saying twitch lags in France is total Bullshit.
They just have a nice deal on with dailymotion and don't want to give it up.
I have no idea why ESL is so bitchy about using twitch only, but they have not only the right to decide what happens with WCS EU streaming, but all of the responsibilities of the production etc. etc.
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D
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On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D
It's not about learning english. I have no problem following english cast at all. It's more that I prefer the french stream because they are very very entertaining imo.
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Give dem frenchmen there starcraft back!
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On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
Meh... People saying twitch lags in France is total Bullshit.
Depends on your location and provider I guess. But I'm currently living in France with a 20 mbit connection and at times I can't even watch Twitch at medium quality without issues. It's pretty bad
Since I don't speak French very well, I don't really care left or right what happens with the French streams, I just want my Twitch fixed
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Were there ever in history of business a case were exclusive deals to a single company were a good thing?
I can´t come up with a single one to be honest.
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On February 18 2014 17:48 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D It's not about learning english. I have no problem following english cast at all. It's more that I prefer the french stream because they are very very entertaining imo.
Seconed. Speaking english fluently, yet I am still watching the German stream. Take + Naruto + third caster is just too good to miss out.
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On February 18 2014 18:25 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Were there ever in history of business a case were exclusive deals to a single company were a good thing?
I can´t come up with a single one to be honest.
No it's because it is called Private Monopoly and in every single economics book it is known at the worst form of business model ever. It push prices high with poor quality and poor innovation. :D .
As we can all witness the relative poor quality of twitch in EU is maybe the first sign of it. Twitch get rid of all concurrence and now they have no reason to improve the quality of stream because we will watch it anyway.
But that's not the topic it's more about ESL not wanting Ogamingtv to broadcast. NASL agreed to let them broadcast so what is the difference here? They are both blizzard official broadcast, but one of them is not as cool as they seems.
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On February 18 2014 17:48 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D It's not about learning english. I have no problem following english cast at all. It's more that I prefer the french stream because they are very very entertaining imo.
That's probably why I don't mind. I always feel like I'm listening to immature adolescents when I'm listening to French casts...
And you don't get much more chauvinistic than a french caster (Et il y a x ans, le 12 jullet 1998, la France gagnait la coupe du monde... EVERY FUCKING YEAR)
EDIT/ I just wanted to add that this is my opinion and in no way justifies the fact that they aren't allowed to cast. I know a lot of people who love their casting, and as I went to Iron squid 2 I have a lot of respect for the work and what they have done for E sports. I just prefer english casting.
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On February 18 2014 18:33 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 17:48 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D It's not about learning english. I have no problem following english cast at all. It's more that I prefer the french stream because they are very very entertaining imo. That's probably why I don't mind. I always feel like I'm listening to immature adolescents when I'm listening to French casts... And you don't get much more chauvinistic than a french caster (Et il y a x ans, le 12 jullet 1998, la France gagnait la coupe du monde... EVERY FUCKING YEAR)
I always wonder whether this is the case for native english speakers as well... Since I experience the same thing with German streams. Also I always want to punch someone when they mix the English and German names for units in the same cast. Like at one time they are talking roaches, next thing I hear is them talking Schaben...
Back on topic... Any consens coming? Would be quite sad since I love the sound of French in the morning.
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On February 18 2014 18:33 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 17:48 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 17:37 Douillos wrote:
And for god's sake, learn english ya darn frogs :D It's not about learning english. I have no problem following english cast at all. It's more that I prefer the french stream because they are very very entertaining imo. That's probably why I don't mind. I always feel like I'm listening to immature adolescents when I'm listening to French casts... And you don't get much more chauvinistic than a french caster (Et il y a x ans, le 12 jullet 1998, la France gagnait la coupe du monde... EVERY FUCKING YEAR) EDIT/ I just wanted to add that this is my opinion and in no way justifies the fact that they aren't allowed to cast. I know a lot of people who love their casting, and as I went to Iron squid 2 I have a lot of respect for the work and what they have done for E sports. I just prefer english casting.
I love sub-streams and particullary the french one because they have more freedom of talk. While ESL main cast must be professional , subcast can be more fun and little bit less serious. That's why it's great and that's why ESL should not see Ogamingtv as concurrent. If I want serious cast I go ESL main stream. If I want more loose cast I can go Ogamingtv, If I don't speak english I can go OgamingTv.
It would be great if the issue could be fixed for the round B since it will not for group A. Please ESL let us enjoy some good starcraft action !
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On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive.
Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand.
Every streamer would rather stream WCS on their own stream than the WCS ones on twitch. But thats Blizzards decision. Then go to blizzard and ask them about it.
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Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it.
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On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it.
There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP.
The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform.
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On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand.
How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac.
If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service!
I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is.
On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform.
1) not only France has issue with twitch
2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa
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Well , Blizzard and ESL are sending a wrong message to one the most active SC2 scene in Europe . the French cast is a must and they should find a compromise asap to further develop the game in France . There is always a solution this is just matter of being reasonable . As well a temporary agreement should be find in a short term
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On February 18 2014 19:39 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand. How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac. If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service! I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is. Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. 1) not only France has issue with twitch 2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa
Tell me who complained about twitch recently if not french ?
And again, it's been like the 100 times it's been said, it's not ESL's fault, it's DM for not making an agreement with Blizzard. ESL apply the rules.
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Ah yes their really poor quality of service!
Actually I'm afraid it's more of a problem with ISPs, because using Free I used to be unable to watch streams even on low with 10mb/s dl, and then got to use a VPN and I could watch whatever I wanted just fine. I don't know who is responsible for the problems, but to me it seems more of an ISP thing (just as with youtube).
For my opinion about all of this, I think it kind of sucks to create that much drama, I mean if twitch is partnered with blizzard business is business, and it's the same thing if ESL is taking a share of revenues because they're partnered. And if twitch isn't even responsible for the stream problems, they have no reason to allow a broadcast on dailymotion.
I like english casters a lot more anyway (to be honest I hate french casters, but that's personal preference and I don't want to be negative towards them). See the good part, you can work on your english
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Sorry but if statements made are honest following situation exists:
Twitch is official and only partner of Blizzard and the only platform WCS can be streamed on. French people would like to stream on Dailymotion etc, which isn't possible. If they have a deal with that platform that prevents them from using twitch, its tough luck.
ESL is not to blame here. Blizzard made a deal and in my opinion making a deal with the biggest platform for streaming out there is only reasonable. So either use twitch to stream WCS or don't stream it at all. To me it sounds like the French community is asking ESL to do what they are not able to do: break contracts with their partners.
So... why send the pitchfork mob at ESL?
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On February 18 2014 19:45 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:39 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand. How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac. If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service! I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is. On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. 1) not only France has issue with twitch 2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa Tell me who complained about twitch recently if not french ? And again, it's been like the 100 times it's been said, it's not ESL's fault, it's DM for not making an agreement with Blizzard. ESL apply the rules.
There is no rule on Sub-stream! Twitch is imposed for main english stream but not for other streams. Others streams can run
let me quote you main page of blizzard:
Timing and Broadcasts
We expect seasons to last around 10 weeks, with an emphasis on broadcasting Premier League play in each region. Challenger and Qualifier play may be broadcasted via community channels or directly by the partner, at the discretion of NASL and ESL
full text : http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/about
So as you can see there is a possibility of choice between the Partner (Twitch) or via community channel. And what you can see is that the decision is ESL to make not twitch nor blizzard.
Why not allow a dual stream Twitch/Dailymotion? seems to me that it is the simple solution here
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On February 18 2014 19:57 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:45 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:39 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand. How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac. If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service! I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is. On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. 1) not only France has issue with twitch 2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa Tell me who complained about twitch recently if not french ? And again, it's been like the 100 times it's been said, it's not ESL's fault, it's DM for not making an agreement with Blizzard. ESL apply the rules. There is no rule on Sub-stream! Twitch is imposed for main english stream but not for other streams. Others streams can run let me quote you main page of blizzard: Timing and Broadcasts Show nested quote +
We expect seasons to last around 10 weeks, with an emphasis on broadcasting Premier League play in each region. Challenger and Qualifier play may be broadcasted via community channels or directly by the partner, at the discretion of NASL and ESL
full text : http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/aboutSo as you can see there is a possibility of choice between the Partner (Twitch) or via community channel. And what you can see is that the decision is ESL to make not twitch nor blizzard. Why not allow a dual stream Twitch/Dailymotion? seems to me that it is the simple solution here
your quoted statement said that about challenger and qualifier. this is now premier league (or sth like, forgot how they named it)
and is twitch really that bad in france? i live in germany and had some lag-problems last wcs but for the last ~3 months it improved a lot
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On February 18 2014 20:06 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:57 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:45 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:39 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand. How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac. If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service! I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is. On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. 1) not only France has issue with twitch 2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa Tell me who complained about twitch recently if not french ? And again, it's been like the 100 times it's been said, it's not ESL's fault, it's DM for not making an agreement with Blizzard. ESL apply the rules. There is no rule on Sub-stream! Twitch is imposed for main english stream but not for other streams. Others streams can run let me quote you main page of blizzard: Timing and Broadcasts
We expect seasons to last around 10 weeks, with an emphasis on broadcasting Premier League play in each region. Challenger and Qualifier play may be broadcasted via community channels or directly by the partner, at the discretion of NASL and ESL
full text : http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/aboutSo as you can see there is a possibility of choice between the Partner (Twitch) or via community channel. And what you can see is that the decision is ESL to make not twitch nor blizzard. Why not allow a dual stream Twitch/Dailymotion? seems to me that it is the simple solution here your quoted statement said that about challenger and qualifier. this is now premier league (or sth like, forgot how they named it)
Ah yes sorry my bad. didn't see it's not written premier league. So basically we have no clear statement about the rules on Premier league broadcast. Maybe NarutO is right and there is nothing to do anyway!
Guess it's time to wait for next NationWars.
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On February 18 2014 20:06 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:57 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:45 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:39 klup wrote:On February 18 2014 19:30 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
Thats just a flat out lie. Plz post the statement from Carmac in OP, i cant believe this topic is still alive. Its easy, stream on twitch or go home. Its not that hard to understand. How many times do we have to explain that in France if you stream on twitch only you are dead. No money + no viewers. Ogamingtv managed to negociate with NASL a solution with double stream Twitch.tv+ Dailymotion , why ESL don't want that too is the real question here and has not been answered by Carmac. If Twitch is so great let us choose between both Twitch and Dailymotion what they are afraid of? Ah yes their really poor quality of service! I love how people trust so much in Carmac statement, He is an employee of one of the company that is in the issue so he is as biased as Kerri is. On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. 1) not only France has issue with twitch 2) This is not a problem of ISP, and they actually don't care about this issue at all. It's a problem between ESL and Ogamingtv/MilleniumTv/aAa Tell me who complained about twitch recently if not french ? And again, it's been like the 100 times it's been said, it's not ESL's fault, it's DM for not making an agreement with Blizzard. ESL apply the rules. There is no rule on Sub-stream! Twitch is imposed for main english stream but not for other streams. Others streams can run let me quote you main page of blizzard: Timing and Broadcasts
We expect seasons to last around 10 weeks, with an emphasis on broadcasting Premier League play in each region. Challenger and Qualifier play may be broadcasted via community channels or directly by the partner, at the discretion of NASL and ESL
full text : http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/aboutSo as you can see there is a possibility of choice between the Partner (Twitch) or via community channel. And what you can see is that the decision is ESL to make not twitch nor blizzard. Why not allow a dual stream Twitch/Dailymotion? seems to me that it is the simple solution here your quoted statement said that about challenger and qualifier. this is now premier league (or sth like, forgot how they named it) and is twitch really that bad in france? i live in germany and had some lag-problems last wcs but for the last ~3 months it improved a lot
Llewellys told that they wanted to stream WCS Premier, they scheduled it but they had to cancel it.
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On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform.
No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes.
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On February 18 2014 21:04 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes.
How come we probably have the same ISP now (Belgacom) and with my shitty connection shared with 5 people, I can watch 3 stream in High settings ? Heh. There might have some problem with twitch when huge tournaments are in place, like LCS or TI finals, but that's it, and I doubt DM could stay still with hallf a million viewers on a single stream either.
Anyway, I didn't hear complain about twitch for ages, only now because of the drama with ogaming and esl.
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On February 18 2014 21:10 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 21:04 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes. How come we probably have the same ISP now (Belgacom) and with my shitty connection shared with 5 people, I can watch 3 stream in High settings ? Heh. There might have some problem with twitch when huge tournaments are in place, like LCS or TI finals, but that's it, and I doubt DM could stay still with hallf a million viewers on a single stream either. Anyway, I didn't hear complain about twitch for ages, only now because of the drama with ogaming and esl.
Then you don't watch enough streams. Been not a week ago that i was watching a steam and the streamer had to lower his bitrate a ton because otherwise it was skippy as hell.
Also, i really wish people would stop with the "i don't have this issue so it does not exist" nonsense.
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On February 18 2014 21:16 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 21:10 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 21:04 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes. How come we probably have the same ISP now (Belgacom) and with my shitty connection shared with 5 people, I can watch 3 stream in High settings ? Heh. There might have some problem with twitch when huge tournaments are in place, like LCS or TI finals, but that's it, and I doubt DM could stay still with hallf a million viewers on a single stream either. Anyway, I didn't hear complain about twitch for ages, only now because of the drama with ogaming and esl. Then you don't watch enough streams. Been not a week ago that i was watching a steam and the streamer had to lower his bitrate a ton because otherwise it was skippy as hell. Also, i really wish people would stop with the "i don't have this issue so it does not exist" nonsense.
First of all, I probably watch much more stream than you, I have at least one on air constantly.
Second, for the guy who had to lower the bitrate for his stream to be watchable means he had a too poor upload to stream at a higher bitrate.
Third, it's not "I", because "We" share the same provider, and if I don't have a problem with a product and you do, that mean it comes from "you" only, either it is a bad service from your provider in your region, or you have some problem with your intern network. Then again, it's not Twitch fault.
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On February 18 2014 21:22 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 21:16 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 21:10 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 21:04 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes. How come we probably have the same ISP now (Belgacom) and with my shitty connection shared with 5 people, I can watch 3 stream in High settings ? Heh. There might have some problem with twitch when huge tournaments are in place, like LCS or TI finals, but that's it, and I doubt DM could stay still with hallf a million viewers on a single stream either. Anyway, I didn't hear complain about twitch for ages, only now because of the drama with ogaming and esl. Then you don't watch enough streams. Been not a week ago that i was watching a steam and the streamer had to lower his bitrate a ton because otherwise it was skippy as hell. Also, i really wish people would stop with the "i don't have this issue so it does not exist" nonsense. First of all, I probably watch much more stream than you, I have at least one on air constantly. Second, for the guy who had to lower the bitrate for his stream to be watchable means he had a too poor upload to stream at a higher bitrate. Third, it's not "I", because "We" share the same provider, and if I don't have a problem with a product and you do, that mean it comes from "you" only, either it is a bad service from your provider in your region, or you have some problem with your intern network. Then again, it's not Twitch fault.
You are so sure we share the same provider so i got to ask. Do you think Belgium only got 1 ISP or something?
I love how you try to blame everything on everyone except twitch btw. Twitch is holy because you have no issues and everyone else has just broken equipment. I give up to argue back, its like talking to a brick wall that has no clue how this stuff actually works...
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On February 18 2014 21:26 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 21:22 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 21:16 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 21:10 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 21:04 Assirra wrote:On February 18 2014 19:37 Faust852 wrote:On February 18 2014 19:32 inermis wrote:
Twitch sucks for EU and that is a fact. Watching stream on High settings and it being smooth is an achievement. Watching lagless source, impossible lately. Wish blizzard came up with their own streaming thingie, or use MLG's platform or azubuTV.
TL;DR
Twitch needs to pick up their game, or people will stop using it. There were some issues 1 or 2 years back, but it's been a while Twitch didn't fuck up massively. I can watch streams on Source settings without a problem in 2 differents countries with 3 differents ISP. The only region where Twitch seems to have problems is France, so it's to french's ISP to stop breaking the net neutrality to promote their shitty DM platform. No its not the only region that has problems with twitch. Whole Europe has and twitch even acknlowged this and explained there were currently not enough datacenters in Europe and they were planning to place more. If they have done that or not by now i dunno. However i know that me and a lot of people from different parts of Europe (and the world) stil have issues sometimes. How come we probably have the same ISP now (Belgacom) and with my shitty connection shared with 5 people, I can watch 3 stream in High settings ? Heh. There might have some problem with twitch when huge tournaments are in place, like LCS or TI finals, but that's it, and I doubt DM could stay still with hallf a million viewers on a single stream either. Anyway, I didn't hear complain about twitch for ages, only now because of the drama with ogaming and esl. Then you don't watch enough streams. Been not a week ago that i was watching a steam and the streamer had to lower his bitrate a ton because otherwise it was skippy as hell. Also, i really wish people would stop with the "i don't have this issue so it does not exist" nonsense. First of all, I probably watch much more stream than you, I have at least one on air constantly. Second, for the guy who had to lower the bitrate for his stream to be watchable means he had a too poor upload to stream at a higher bitrate. Third, it's not "I", because "We" share the same provider, and if I don't have a problem with a product and you do, that mean it comes from "you" only, either it is a bad service from your provider in your region, or you have some problem with your intern network. Then again, it's not Twitch fault. You are so sure we share the same provider so i got to ask. Do you think Belgium only got 1 ISP or something? I love how you try to blame everything on everyone except twitch btw. Twitch is holy because you have no issues and everyone else has just broken equipment. I give up to argue back, its like talking to a brick wall that has no clue how this stuff actually works...
I assumed we had the same provider because you didn't said the contrary when I said so in my previous post. Anyway, I also use Voo in a little village and I was able to watch the IEM with high settings without a lag, and they picked at 90k viewers IIRC.
You can say that I speak for myself only, but you also do speak only for yourself. I ask you to provide me some example about people complaining of twitch in the recent past, except from french people, and I bet you won't find a whole lot.
Anyway, it's as it is, and it probably won't change but if Ogaming/Mill would use Twitch to stream the WCS. Better learn how to use a VPN if you want to watch heh.
Edit : it's quite easy to insult me of being ignorant and leaving like a king while having absolutely no clue about my knowledge of the subject, it's really weak and proove your lack of skill in argumentation. I'm totally open to discuss and if you give me true evidence to back your accusation, I can change my mind without a problem.
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esl is not to blame
solution: twitch should fix their servers and french people should learn english
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On February 18 2014 21:41 ramon wrote:
esl is not to blame
solution: twitch should fix their servers and french people should learn english
Lol we are fine with our english understanding, thanks for your concern. the issue is not that. It is to enjoy a show that is very different from the professional and excellent work of ESL casting team. Pomf& Thud casting has been really entertaining for us for a lot of time and we don't want them to disapear because they bring excellent show and lot of events to SC2 community.
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I listen to english cast most of time anyway. But those guys works hard to make live the e-sport scene in france and EU. They totally deserve to stream on the platform they want. Hope ESL can bring e-sport spirit than money spirit.
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Russian Federation262 Posts
All i could say is really WT*, ESL?
What are the reasons of doing this?
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People still failing to realize its not ESL's call here.
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China6329 Posts
On February 18 2014 21:41 ramon wrote:
esl is not to blame
solution: twitch should fix their servers and french people should learn english
According to a later post by ogaming, some French ISP are deliberately limiting Twitch's bandwidth in France.
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EPT
