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On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all.
And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews.
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On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:12 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 07:39 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 25 2013 07:21 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy. I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality. I don't know what you're trying to prove or say. You're probably just another closet bigot. You seem to be highly confused about what a personality is. A person can be shy and still have a great personality. Saying Koreans are faceless is just flat out racist. Did you just call Scarlett somewhat skilled? You do realize she just beat bomber 2-1, sos 2-3 (after going 2-0 then losing 3 in a row) and 2-0 vs mc. In the game vs mc, mc was dominated so badly she looked like she was playing a different game. You would think that her accomplishments as a player would make you at least respect Scarlett for her skill, but alas bigots can never see past their nose. I don't know how to say it any clearer then I already have and nothing I said was bigoted. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me one, and I could honestly careless about Scarlett because personality wise I find Scarlett to be about as interesting as a rock. And faceless Korean is a way to describe a player from Korea that is very good but doesn't have a personality that distinguishes them from any of their contemporaries. I'd say Innovation although very good fits this bill perfectly, absolutely polite, never offends anybody, no doubt a good human being but ultimately forgettable if he didn't win. And yes I did, and that's what Scarlett is somewhat good. Not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, somewhat skilled. I substitute that for mediocre. Today's results not withstanding, I am not going to bow down and say all hail Scarlett because of a good performance. And again I am not being disrespectful I am just not a fan of Scarlett nor am I a hater, I am entirely indifferent to Scarlett and don't care either way. Your far more emotionally invested in Scarlett then I am so your seeing insults and bigotry where there is none. It's okay I get it I am a huge fan of MVP but I realize that he is not perfect and as such I don't run off to white knight for him for the slightest of insults whether they be perceived or actual. Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument".
Why have arguments when you can just call people names like RESOqub, Traffic and yourself?
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On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument".
When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players.
On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me.
Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to.
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On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)
For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc
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On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players. Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me. Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to.
It's just kind of overly provocative to come in and say her attention is due to her transgender status rather than her skill, when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea.
And the whole argument that there are "faceless" Koreans is only valid if you also admit there are faceless foreigners who are just as common among foreign players as faceless Koreans are among Korean players. So you'd be better off saying "faceless player" rather than Korean because otherwise there's an implication that you think it applies to Koreans more than others. Since it's so dangerously close to the old racist idea that all Asians look alike, it's reasonable to conclude you have some subconscious racism at work if you think more Koreans are faceless than foreigners are.
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On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc
Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
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On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews.
that's not true
Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless.
Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok.
it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews.
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On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
It's gotten slightly better over the past few years.. but yeah, Canada is still lacking in internet technology compared to US and most countries of EU.
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On November 25 2013 11:37 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players. On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me. Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to. It's just kind of overly provocative to come in and say her attention is due to her transgender status rather than her skill, when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea. And the whole argument that there are "faceless" Koreans is only valid if you also admit there are faceless foreigners who are just as common among foreign players as faceless Koreans are among Korean players. So you'd be better off saying "faceless player" rather than Korean because otherwise there's an implication that you think it applies to Koreans more than others. Since it's so dangerously close to the old racist idea that all Asians look alike, it's reasonable to conclude you have some subconscious racism at work if you think more Koreans are faceless than foreigners are.
I never said that there are not faceless foreigners, I don't disagree I've just seen that term thrown around here quite abit and it is fitting. Scarlett to me fits that bill because I don't care about the whole foreigner / Korean thing, to me there are only interesting and boring players. Only recently through interviews did I get to see really anything about Scarlett then again I'm not one to pay attention to such things as I don't really follow zerg players. So to me and alot of people the clear identifier of Scarlett like it or not is the Transgender thing. I honestly didn't know that Scarlett was I assumed girl until that fact was thrown out there by the community. And again find a thread where Scarlett is the title where this is not brought up by someone. I posted earlier about my thoughts on page 8 without addressing the so called transgender issue (I say so called because to me its not an issue until its forced.) of Scarlett. I honestly don't care about a players lifestyle the very same way I don't care about a hockey players lifestyle I only care about what they do in games.
As for the subconscious racism that's assuming alot, the term faceless Korean is thrown around alot more then faceless player even in the write ups leading to the recent WCS finals. If a writer can use the term and not be accused of subconscious racism why can't I? I am more so lead to believe that the problem isn't that I am subconsciously racist or bigoted but that the community is overly sensitive to these things. In the news there was a young guy that is white who grew up in a predominantly black community, he said, " Whut up my <N-word>" to his friends he got suspended for hate speech; this confused the hell out of him and his friends who were all black and of the same age. None of the people who the comment was directed towards were offended as they often said the same thing to that person. It was only when someone got miffed about it was it perceived as racist or hate speech. Same-thing here I don't think its subconscious racism to refer to a Korean player that other then being good we know nothing about as a faceless Korean that is simply by definition what that player is until they do something to stand out. Now applying the same filter to Scarlett until recently Scarlett would have been by definition a faceless player but for one thing.
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On November 25 2013 11:53 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews. that's not true Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless. Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok. it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews.
You kind of just made my point there, alot of Korean's remain faceless until the opportunity presents itself to express personality. And even then some choose the generic route, for some players that's okay as they can express their individuality through play style. Then you run into players like innovation who's personality isn't clearly defined and who's play style is robot like. Take away innovations championship and consistency and what do you remember him for? Throw MKP and we will always remember him for being unique. If MC retired tomorrow we would remember him as well. It's not our job as viewers to delve deep and look for something to be interesting about a player; its a players job to market and sell them self. This is something that a few players understand quite well, you don't need to be a champion to make a career in e-sports you just need to play well and be thoroughly engaging/ enjoyable to watch and that's something alot of players lack.
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On November 25 2013 14:16 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:53 ETisME wrote:On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews. that's not true Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless. Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok. it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews. You kind of just made my point there, alot of Korean's remain faceless until the opportunity presents itself to express personality. And even then some choose the generic route, for some players that's okay as they can express their individuality through play style. Then you run into players like innovation who's personality isn't clearly defined and who's play style is robot like. Take away innovations championship and consistency and what do you remember him for? Throw MKP and we will always remember him for being unique. If MC retired tomorrow we would remember him as well. It's not our job as viewers to delve deep and look for something to be interesting about a player; its a players job to market and sell them self. This is something that a few players understand quite well, you don't need to be a champion to make a career in e-sports you just need to play well and be thoroughly engaging/ enjoyable to watch and that's something alot of players lack.
I don't know why you emphasis on Koreans then, it's the same for foreigners as well
like I said, when was the last time you read an interview and think that korean protoss player is boring? I certainly can't recall any.
Results should come before personality. If they aren't as good as sOs, dear etc, they won't even get a chance to have the exposure.
Crazymoving for example was really interesting but what happened? he didn't reach high on tournaments and just disappeared from the scene.
You won't even be able to watch the engaging/enjoyable games because he didn't reach far enough.
Look at your example, MC, MKP, innovation are all top level players (or they once were).
personality, achievements, playstyle and their history adds to their frame, not other way around.
Everyone has their own uniqueness, it's just a matter if people appreciate it or not.
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On November 25 2013 11:37 Doodsmack wrote:
when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea.
Yeah, add to that, Naniwa can be BM, and in ways that viewers don't really get behind (unlike, say, PartinG's BM, or MC's BM, or Stephano's BM, or even Scarlett's BM, or really...any of a variety of people who have a sense of comedic timing). I have a couple of friends who cheer against Naniwa in every tournament he plays.
So...by merit of not having Naniwa's personality, I'd actually expect Scarlett to be more popular than Naniwa given their similar results. But I don't really see evidence for that. (Based on twitter...Scarlett has 20k followers, to Naniwa's 36k followers...and Stephano's 56k followers, Huk's 42k followers, Idra's 68k followers, Thorzain's 30k followers, Incontrol's 64k followers--although casters tend to have way more followers than players so Incontrol maybe shouldn't count, Sheth's 28k followers, WhiteRa's 42k followers, CatZ 22k followers, Ret 31k followers, Grubby's 48k followers, Destiny's 30k followers, Demuslim 41k, SeleCT 23k, Nony 26k, TLO 35k). Of course, foreigners do tend to be more popular than koreans of similar skill level; the few Koreans I found at a glance with more than 20k: Hero 26k, Taeja 21k, MC 42k, Jaedong 31k, MMA 22k.
But the point is, if she did have an unfair advantage in popularity, you'd expect that she'd maybe be in the top 10 most followed foreigners, given that she's top 2 in results right now.
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On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
If I remember correctly, the United States has pretty shit internet unless you're on a university campus or on Google Fiber.
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I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know.
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Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 25 2013 16:16 ladysman09 wrote:
Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal.
You actually believed that?
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On November 25 2013 15:59 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here. If I remember correctly, the United States has pretty shit internet unless you're on a university campus or on Google Fiber.
Your memory does not fail you. The infrastructure was all invested in during the 80s and early 90s, and now it's nothing but private enterprise building infrastructure, outside of colleges. Unfortunately, it's rarely more profitable for them to offer larger bandwidth or more efficient switching, so improvements are done incrementally, and at a snail's pace.
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On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it
Look man, what is all boils down to is everyone of your posts in this thread is negative.
You're commenting on who she is rather than what she does. Nobody told you that you have to love Scarlett, but coming into her thread and saying she only gets attention because she's trans and her results are mediocre is just spreading false information/hate. Everyone of your posts confirms my suspicion that you're a bigot.
You don't seem to have educated yourself on Scarlett's results so here. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/4571_Scarlett/main/display-all-leagues She's beaten several Korean champions recently including MMA and Maru. All this while spending the majority of her sc2 career playing from home on NA server.
If you bothered to read the interview, she says her tendon issues are so bad she uses 2 alternating fingers to press her mouse buttons. That makes her accomplishments even more incredible.
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Derailing the thread a little bit, I still don't understand why so few people understand that a "faceless" player is not just a consequence of the player's personality, but also a consequence of how little you are exposed to him.
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EPT
