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In a new interview Scarlett says she will most likely stop playing SC2 full-time next year, and that she just doesn't enjoy the game much anymore. Not a problem specific to SC2, but how she views most games. She would like to win a major tournament before this happens - hopefully at Redbull Battlegrounds.
http://www.ongamers.com/articles/scarlett-looks-for-redemption-at-redbull-battlegrounds-nyc/1100-187/
Excerpt:
What do you think about your Redbull Battlegrounds group?
At first I thought it was going to be like the other Redbull events this year - a round robin format - so I was pretty happy with my group. I felt confident against Golden, somewhat against Bomber, and not so much against Parting. Now I've it's GSL style and that I have to play Parting first, so my confidence has gone down the drain. I lost 0-3 to him at WCS Finals last year when he won. He hasn't been doing so well recently, but as I mentioned before I'm not too confident in my ZvP right now. I'm hoping to get 2nd place in the group, but I don't know about winning it. I think if it was the round-robin format I'd have a much better chance of advancing.
Is it enough for you to be the best player in North America, or do you need to be one of the best in the world?
I want to win a premier tournament on LAN before I stop playing. I don't know if I'll play full-time next year actually. I'm not the most interested in the game anymore.
Why not?
It's just getting boring playing it so much. So I may start playing part-time, start learning something else.
Is this because of of StarCraft 2 specifically, or if you had been playing Dota 2 or League of Legends these past few years, you'd be just as bored?
Yeah, any game.
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wtf Redbull is like some kind of retirement party or something.... -.-
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This is saddening to me =[
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it happens, she could either quit or keep on playing. attitudes change constantly.
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A great loss for SC2 scene :/
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
I heard that Draw as has an iCCup account for scarlett to use
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Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title.
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She'd better not, who else will I be cheering for? 
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there are plenty of up and coming foreigners who have at least the same amount of potential to replace her.
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is this a real interview?
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France7248 Posts
after Stephano, Scarlett? please, no
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On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident
What incident is that ?
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Realistically, not good for the scene. But honestly, she has a much better chance next year with new WCS format. What a shame.
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The article makes it actually less dramatic than Slasher's summary and excerpt, I would suggest reading the article instead of overreacting just yet.
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On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:What incident is that ?
He said she was the best of both worlds.
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France7248 Posts
On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds.
well, that wasnt the worst part
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On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds.
That was hilarious.
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And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
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she is travelling so much, maybe she is tired, but I think she will go on with us  gogogo Scarlett!!!
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On November 24 2013 03:10 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. That was hilarious.
Apparently not to Scarlett, it wasn't.
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
And I think this is why the region lock is needed. Without as much monetary incentive, it's a much bigger risk for an NA or EU player to play SC2 fulltime.
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that is sad news. This will not be good at all
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nooooooooooooooo........ NA scene is suffering already...T_______T
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Uh oh...this is bad news indeed
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It kind of sucks yet it seems totally understandable. I can't fault her for becoming bored with it. If your hearts not into it...
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
I think it's also better for the scene that pro players actually enjoy playing the game.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
The money is there.
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Just means they aren't cut out to be a pro gamer. A true pro gamer is someone like Jaedong who I remind you has been playing far longer and more intensely than all the foreigners/koreans that have been retiring lately. As long as Jaedong remains in the scene with his personality and EG's marketing the scene will be fine! :D
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
This probably has more to do with her not enjoying the game. Sorry to say this, but SC2 is not the most fun game to play. Especially not when you're forced to play it a lot, like most full time players (or at least I hope they play the game a lot). Making money off the game makes for a different situation, but I guess it's easy to get greedy and not appreciate the fact that you're making a living playing a video game.
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Canada11349 Posts
On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
How can you judge the impact of a new format when it hasn't even started yet? This makes very little sense when that was not the reason given for considering scaling back their involvement in SC2. Like pretty much zero sense as Scarlett also talks about hand injuries as well.
And especially when Scarllet says this:
What about WCS next year?
I actually like WCS next year. I think the format is better except Challenger league. I think it should be group stage. I think it's silly you only play one match in Challenger and if you lose it you're out, I don't like that at all. I like how it's semi-region locked, it's easier to stay in Premier. I got to the Round of 16 every season this year, so if I do the same thing next year I'll always be in Premier. I think these changes would be better if they only kept the Top 8 players in.
No need for conspiracy theories and tourney hate.
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On November 24 2013 03:10 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. That was hilarious.
Yeah for you.. ever heard of empathy ? jerk
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
Yes it was a lot more interesting. But Koreans were everywhere 2 years ago to. Winning many MLG, DH, IEM, Nasl.
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Hmmm. This is saddening. And it seems to be all too common.
And Lord Nazgul, Scarlett and Stephano are bound to retire eventually. Isn't the problem a lack of players to replace them?
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On November 24 2013 03:47 LimeNade wrote:
Just means they aren't cut out to be a pro gamer. A true pro gamer is someone like Jaedong who I remind you has been playing far longer and more intensely than all the foreigners/koreans that have been retiring lately. As long as Jaedong remains in the scene with his personality and EG's marketing the scene will be fine! :D
She IS a progamer.
Comparing her to Jaedong is fruitless, he is something else. But she has been working fucking hard and it makes me really sad her wrist injuries are so severe.
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On November 24 2013 03:09 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. well, that wasnt the worst part
What's the worst part?
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How does anyone know what Scarlett thought about 2GD's joke? Has she said anything about it?
I hope she keeps playing.
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Can somebody explain me that Scarlett joke. I seems like I don't understand it
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Honestly a person with a female brain and male hormones is the only one able to understand both genders, perhaps.
So in a way what he said might have been kinda true.
Regardless it's not something that can affect a person's passion for the game.
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France7248 Posts
On November 24 2013 04:15 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:09 Yhamm wrote:On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. well, that wasnt the worst part What's the worst part?
Well, I'm not sure it is the best place to talk about it, so if not, just delete this post.
iNcontroL asked 2GD if he could apologize to Scarlett or say something good about her. 2GD answered that he tried but that he couldn't find her on Pornhub.
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On November 24 2013 04:22 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
How does anyone know what Scarlett thought about 2GD's joke? Has she said anything about it?
I hope she keeps playing.
she made a post on Reddit to the effect of "of course I was offended." it's been deleted since but it's pretty obvious from context what she said
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People seriously think some mildly offensive joke made by a drunk 2gd somehow factors into this? This game is demanding to play at a pro level, and the constant travel just adds to it. If she keeps playing, great, if not, everyone retires eventually. This is not something you do forever. I'd much rather see her just call it quits on competitive gaming than do it half-assed.
The problem is the lack of people to replace the Stephanos and Scarletts, not that they disappear eventually, because that is inevitable.
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On November 24 2013 04:22 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
How does anyone know what Scarlett thought about 2GD's joke? Has she said anything about it?
I hope she keeps playing.
Yes, she commented in a thread in SRS, which she removed later on.
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
If foreigners want money they'll have to start training more. It's not like South Koreans are genetically more gifted at computer games; they just take it a whole lot more seriously.
Besides, if your only incentive to play a game is money you're going to get bored before long anyway. A game should first and foremost be fun to play.
EDIT: about 2GD's banter: what he said was only mildly offensive compared to things you hear on shows like Family Guy, South Park or House M.D. The Starcraft community's political correctness can get downright annoying at times. It's trashtalk. No more, no less. The correct reaction would have been for Scarlett to come up with a clever line to get back at him but instead the SC2 community decides to crucify 2GD.
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On November 24 2013 04:29 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 04:15 Xiphos wrote:On November 24 2013 03:09 Yhamm wrote:On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. well, that wasnt the worst part What's the worst part? Well, I'm not sure it is the best place to talk about it, so if not, just delete this post. iNcontroL asked 2GD if he could apologize to Scarlett or say something good about her. 2GD answered that he tried but that he couldn't find her on Pornhub.
Okay, that's pretty shitty, man. I get that 2GD makes a lot of "harsh" jokes and I find them - for the most part - hilarious. But come on, you gotta know who you can rip into and how far. The type of jokes 2GD can lay on iNcontroL, he can't lay on everybody...
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On November 24 2013 04:37 Azelja wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 04:29 Yhamm wrote:On November 24 2013 04:15 Xiphos wrote:On November 24 2013 03:09 Yhamm wrote:On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. well, that wasnt the worst part What's the worst part? Well, I'm not sure it is the best place to talk about it, so if not, just delete this post. iNcontroL asked 2GD if he could apologize to Scarlett or say something good about her. 2GD answered that he tried but that he couldn't find her on Pornhub. Okay, that's pretty shitty, man. I get that 2GD makes a lot of "harsh" jokes and I find them - for the most part - hilarious. But come on, you gotta know who you can rip into and how far. The type of jokes 2GD can lay on iNcontroL, he can't lay on everybody...
I find that funny but not in a way that is a "good" funny. There is certain stuff that people shouldn't make fun of. That's probably a pretty sensitive topic for her.
Anyway, I feel that the issue is that pro-gamers should start taking better care of themselves (in regards to their wrists). A lot of wrist injuries are preventable, especially if it's an issue with her tendons being too weak like she said.
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On November 24 2013 04:29 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 04:15 Xiphos wrote:On November 24 2013 03:09 Yhamm wrote:On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. well, that wasnt the worst part What's the worst part? Well, I'm not sure it is the best place to talk about it, so if not, just delete this post. iNcontroL asked 2GD if he could apologize to Scarlett or say something good about her. 2GD answered that he tried but that he couldn't find her on Pornhub.
Haha, classic 2gd joke. I don't really see why it would be more offensive to Scarlett than anyone else he could have refered to with that particular joke. Hell, I'd say that one rates pretty low on the 'offensive jokes told by 2gd' scale.
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Germany25657 Posts
Can't believe this thread is turning into another "2gd joke" discussion. Ugh.
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On November 24 2013 04:46 KadaverBB wrote:
Can't believe this thread is turning into another "2gd joke" discussion. Ugh.
Well, it will just turn into one camp calling everyone they don't agree with Insensitive, and the other camp calling the ones they don't agree with oversensitive.
Anyways, this makes me sad. I hope she is going to reconsider
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Makes sense, she hasn't been good for a long time. Hope she finds something that suits her better!
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She should look into casting, hers was really good at HSC
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On November 24 2013 04:34 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started... If foreigners want money they'll have to start training more. It's not like South Koreans are genetically more gifted at computer games; they just take it a whole lot more seriously. Besides, if your only incentive to play a game is money you're going to get bored before long anyway. A game should first and foremost be fun to play. EDIT: about 2GD's banter: what he said was only mildly offensive compared to things you hear on shows like Family Guy, South Park or House M.D. The Starcraft community's political correctness can get downright annoying at times. It's trashtalk. No more, no less. The correct reaction would have been for Scarlett to come up with a clever line to get back at him but instead the SC2 community decides to crucify 2GD.
There's a difference between a general joke on a TV show and an insult directed at a specific person. And since 2GD doesn't play it's clearly not trash talk. To claim that shouldn't offend her is just kind of unintelligent, because of the fact that it specifically made fun of the way she is.
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On November 24 2013 05:00 SoFrOsTy wrote:
she hasn't been good for a long time.
Hopefully sarcasm or troll but I'm not certain.
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I am totally lost at the discussion. . .
But anyway, the last thing I want is Starcraft 2 shrinking. It will make more players less motivated to play anymore. . Even as audience, I feel less motivated to watch if the game gets smaller. .
It feels like, my idol getting championship being best at SC2 doesn't matter anymore, or something like that.
I really missed the first time I started coming teamliquid, for SPL match. It was so fun to have a team to root for, and all top players/teams in a single place fighting for a annual champion.
So I hope, when SPL starts, I will get back the old feelings I have .
and, regardless of many things and discussion I have read around here, I still cant find the exact reason for BW increasing popularity throughout the years, and the difference between BW and SC2. It is starting to feel similar the more I read and the more I watch.
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Scarlett, if you're reading this, please remember that virtually every job has its dull moments. But here in progaming, at least you have the peace of mind knowing that you have a horde of fans all around the world cheering you on.
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I like Scarlett as a representative player very much. It is sad to see that her recent results are discouraging her.
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I hope she keeps playing even just part time, no reason she can't do well in WCS and still go to school part time.
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On November 24 2013 05:22 NeThZOR wrote:
I like Scarlett as a representative player very much. It is sad to see that her recent results are discouraging her.
It seems to be the game itself, which is understandable. SC2 can be kind of dull to begin with, and doing 10 hours a day...it will wear on you.
If she is not really motivated, it's far better to cut the ties and move on than to stick around without really wanting to.
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On November 24 2013 05:30 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:22 NeThZOR wrote:
I like Scarlett as a representative player very much. It is sad to see that her recent results are discouraging her. It seems to be the game itself, which is understandable. SC2 can be kind of dull to begin with, and doing 10 hours a day...it will wear on you. If she is not really motivated, it's far better to cut the ties and move on than to stick around without really wanting to.
Is this because of of StarCraft 2 specifically, or if you had been playing Dota 2 or League of Legends these past few years, you'd be just as bored?
Yeah, any game.
although to be fair, it is a little hard to tell since she didn't go and play those games to nearly the same extent
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But but... I don't want to change who my fave SC2 team is...
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I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore.
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On November 24 2013 05:59 Fleshcut wrote:I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore.
Suppy is going to have to become the next top zerg now that he is fulltime
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 24 2013 05:59 Fleshcut wrote:I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore.
why do you mention nestea and drg? o.o
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Second-best foreigner. Hopefully she changes her mind and sticks it out for another year. She really deserves some sort of major tournament win.
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On November 24 2013 05:59 Fleshcut wrote:I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore.
Again, older progamers disappearing is not a bad sign or a problem, it's an inevitable process. If anything, the lack of new stars to replace the old guard should be a cause for concern.
I guess it's up to Elfi now.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Hopefully she keeps going, fulfil some of that potential.
Her timing of late has been bad, those wrist injuries and the break when playing the best SC2 I've seen from her.
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On November 24 2013 06:02 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:59 Fleshcut wrote:I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore. Suppy is going to have to become the next top zerg now that he is fulltime
but he is already 1/3rd of his way through his full time, he's going to start prepping for that MCAT in the summer so just winter and spring and then 'full time' that spends half the time in the books.
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The comment about her being the best of both worlds, isn't bad.
The comments about not being able to find her in the niche section of pornohub is kind of offensive.
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Well, it's natural that once it becomes harder to maintain your form (due to health issues, metagame or other reasons), many people lose interest in the game, if they have been top level before. That really has happened to a ton of people, most notably Stephano. Of course it's sad for the foreign scene, with only Naniwa left to cheer at the top level...
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On November 24 2013 06:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
Hopefully she keeps going, fulfil some of that potential.
Her timing of late has been bad, those wrist injuries and the break when playing the best SC2 I've seen from her.
It's basically been a perfect shitstorm of things that all happened and made her really under-perform. Shit happens I guess.
I don't know though, unless you really want it, being a pro-gamer doesn't really work.
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On November 24 2013 04:31 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 04:22 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
How does anyone know what Scarlett thought about 2GD's joke? Has she said anything about it?
I hope she keeps playing. she made a post on Reddit to the effect of "of course I was offended." it's been deleted since but it's pretty obvious from context what she said
The joke is in pretty poor taste, but to be fair, Scarlett seems to get offended about anything even remotely borderline.
Also threatened to retire before (albeit it due to injuries). Got to say, I really don't think this is such an apocalyptic event that some are making out.
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On November 24 2013 03:01 Rescawen wrote:
there are plenty of up and coming foreigners who have at least the same amount of potential to replace her.
lol, please give me three
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Naniwa becomes more impressive for his longevity and consistent strength for each day that passes.
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On November 24 2013 02:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title.
I agree, they really are important : (. Hopefully more interesting people pop up in the scene 'cause fighting games are killing eSports.
And what was the original title?
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Canada13389 Posts
On November 24 2013 06:36 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 02:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title. I agree, they really are important : (. Hopefully more interesting people pop up in the scene 'cause fighting games are killing eSports. And what was the original title?
What if scarlett is thinking of going back to school? SC2 or any game is not a long term plan. She's been playing full time for a little while now, maybe she is thinking of moving forward with school soon to plan for the future? If thats the case by all means playing part time could be the best thing for her.
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It seems the queen of blades is not done quite yet, well done! I did not expect that, maybe a miracle is actually possible here.
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On November 24 2013 06:44 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 06:36 tshi wrote:On November 24 2013 02:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title. I agree, they really are important : (. Hopefully more interesting people pop up in the scene 'cause fighting games are killing eSports. And what was the original title? What if scarlett is thinking of going back to school? SC2 or any game is not a long term plan. She's been playing full time for a little while now, maybe she is thinking of moving forward with school soon to plan for the future? If thats the case by all means playing part time could be the best thing for her.
School is ruining esports too.
Well, either way, I hope new people come into the scene and keep it interesting.
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On November 24 2013 06:33 zanga wrote:
Naniwa becomes more impressive for his longevity and consistent strength for each day that passes.
He may not be the most likeable person in the scene but you got to give him that, that's for sure. Unlike most other foreigners, he just refuses to give up.
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On November 24 2013 07:18 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 06:33 zanga wrote:
Naniwa becomes more impressive for his longevity and consistent strength for each day that passes. He may not be the most likeable person in the scene but you got to give him that, that's for sure. Unlike most other foreigners, he just refuses to give up.
there's a game that just happened that you might want to see
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Scarlett's ZvT and ZvZ are world class. She just needs a good Protoss teammate to practice ZvP.
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I don't think she can retire after those baneling hits 
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Canada13389 Posts
On November 24 2013 06:46 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 06:44 ZeromuS wrote:On November 24 2013 06:36 tshi wrote:On November 24 2013 02:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title. I agree, they really are important : (. Hopefully more interesting people pop up in the scene 'cause fighting games are killing eSports. And what was the original title? What if scarlett is thinking of going back to school? SC2 or any game is not a long term plan. She's been playing full time for a little while now, maybe she is thinking of moving forward with school soon to plan for the future? If thats the case by all means playing part time could be the best thing for her. School is ruining esports too. Well, either way, I hope new people come into the scene and keep it interesting.
They will. SC2 might not be as big as LoL or maybe DotA but its still really big. People like to say its getting smaller but honestly, a game like SC2, an economy focused RTS with a focus on individual play is just going to be less popular as the other games. But in the end, we see young 13, 14, 15 year old guys in NA, EU and KR playing and doing well now and I can only imagine how much better they get.
In BW a lot of people took breaks and came back played part time etc. In other games very few people were full time as well so I don't see part time as a problem.
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the scene needs her so much tt
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Even if she's good at the game, I dislike her personnality a lot so I wouldn't mind if she retires.
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I don't blame her...I don't know about anyone else, but merely *watching* this game gets tiring after viewing several matches in a row. It doesn't even matter if it gets to the semifinal stage, I literally can't watch anymore because its way too tiring.
Now imagine playing that game day in and day out as a professional, I can only imagine how irritating it would become, no matter how much you liked the game initially. Too much of anything is a bad thing except for those unique individuals who are made for gaming.
It does seem like the retention rate for Brood War lasted quite some time though, so I guess it depends on various factors. Counter strike was probably another long-lasting classic
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That would be really sad if she retires. I think with Stephano she really was a zerg player i liked to watch. Now I'd understand if she's losing motivation she might already be fighting to stay in the game more than anything. Maybe she's already too bored.
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level.
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hopefully those banelings answered her questions
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Well, I just hope that she does nothing that she will regret later on, whether it be giving up player full-time or sticking to playing full-time. Whatever she ends up doing, I will wish her best of luck.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
It's 2GD, at Homestory Cup, hardly a combination that makes for sensitivity.
I enjoy his crudeness, but that's neither here nor there, why even bring it up in this thread?
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On November 24 2013 05:59 Fleshcut wrote:I really hope she stays as a fulltime pro Stephano gone, Idra gone, Nerchio was always only semi-active, DRG vanished, Nestea vanished... if Scarlett leaves there is no really good foreign zerg anymore.
Vortix, Sen, Snute, Nerchio during holidays... The foreign zerg scene would still be healthy. Also DRG is on his way back up again.
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Tbh it's fair enough...it is very boring playing the same thing 8-12 hrs a day for a few years.
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I can totally understand why progamers are quitting -and thats a good thing for their sake.
what is a european progamer really going to do once he reaches a point of retirement. They arent soccer starts that make hundreds of millions to retire on at 30.
Even the highest earning sc2 progamers have not made enough not to have to work again in their lives.
And the jobs for retired progamers are limited - what are they supposed to do, wash dishes at the age of 40?
Its different in korea, the whole culture offeres more in regards to gaming. There are more jobs available aftrer progaming ends (coach) and prices for living, gaming and everything else are much much lower. Im sure they have some of the problems we do, but just not as much.
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On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level.
On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too.
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On November 24 2013 08:33 Nerchio wrote:
Mothership core.
Go on...
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On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too.
Not making fun of people if you don't know how they'll take it is indeed a good idea when thousands of people are watching you.
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On November 24 2013 09:28 Homework wrote:Go on...
It's Nerchio being Nerchio. Probably still annoyed he lost 0-4 to Oz.
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I hope Scarlett can find a ZvP specialist to help her! She hates that MU as much as NaNiwa hates PvZ.
And sometimes, there are some players who do take a break and come back better ( FanTaSy did that and did much better in Proleague and got into Code S).
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Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough.
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She has been really whining a lot lately about ZvP, she should fix that attitude. No wonder it doesn't make fun when you talked yourself into believing there were severe imbalances.
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On November 24 2013 10:24 ACrow wrote:
She has been really whining a lot lately about ZvP, she should fix that attitude. No wonder it doesn't make fun when you talked yourself into believing there were severe imbalances.
Ignoring the fact that there are severe imbalances
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On November 24 2013 10:24 ACrow wrote:
She has been really whining a lot lately about ZvP, she should fix that attitude. No wonder it doesn't make fun when you talked yourself into believing there were severe imbalances.
If it's not fun it's not fun. PvZ is fucking horrible. I don't know what she is supposed to do to make it more fun.
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On November 24 2013 09:47 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 09:28 Homework wrote:On November 24 2013 08:33 Nerchio wrote:
Mothership core. Go on... It's Nerchio being Nerchio. Probably still annoyed he lost 0-4 to Oz.
I can't just chalk up Nerchio to "Nerchio being Nerchio"!
WAAAAAAAAAAIT
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Slasher needs to do a follow up interview about how she feels now that she had a top 3 play of the year vs. bomber there.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Funny how I don't recall her being so critical in WoL when she Broodlord Infestored all the time :p
That's not really fair, as the impression those comments gave is that it's a frustration with the grind/process of being fulltime than any matchup specific issues.
Hopefully her performance thus far will serve as a a reminder of the good times though
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On November 24 2013 10:56 Wombat_NI wrote:
Funny how I don't recall her being so critical in WoL when she Broodlord Infestored all the time :p
That's not really fair, as the impression those comments gave is that it's a frustration with the grind/process of being fulltime than any matchup specific issues.
Hopefully her performance thus far will serve as a a reminder of the good times though
I'm sure it will, until tomorrow when she has to play sOs.
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not that surprising. honestly i'm surprised we don't hear this from more pros. i'd chew my hand off if i had to play as much of any one game as these folks do. thankfully most continue to suffer for my entertainment... it's just a bummer that she's one of my favorite players to watch. hopefully her 'part time' play is still fun to watch even if she doesn't do as well.
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On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too.
In general, society would be better if we did not enjoy ridiculing those different from us. I know you think it's normal to attack others, but society is better off without your mind set.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Perhaps, equally I don't feel here is really the place.
If Scarlett had listed community antagonism as a contributory factor to her frustrations with the game, then for sure let's have that discussion. As it is, in terms of direct interaction (i.e. not Twitch spam) judging from the TL forums Scarlett gets a lot more love than hate.
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Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
This "koreans everywhere bullshit" is the only reason I switched from bw to sc2, like many others did. The skills of games today are so much better than it was before. People that watch Sc2 for "personalities" are definitely not that huge of a fan of the game... I think most real fan of Starcraft want to watch the best games they can, which are obviously played by koreans player. Ive been a fan since 1999 and beside Stephano, not a single foreigners was actually exciting for me to watch because their skills are so lacking compared to the top kespa players. Just had to give you another perspective on this.
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Yeah, getting distracted happens.
Like...I was a math grad student, and I love math, but I spent a lot of time getting obsessed about various videogames.
And then I got a job in the game industry, and I love making games, but even there I spend perhaps unhealthy amounts of time on games made by other developers.
And then I look at the pro players and...especially the Koreans, they play so much SC2 that they will play other games when they want to play something for fun. It's not the way I play starcraft 2, where I sometimes screw around with stuff like mass queens in 4v4 just to have fun.
At the end of the day, a job is a job. Sometimes it is hard tedious work, and that's why you get paid to do it.
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On November 24 2013 03:10 marcesr wrote:
And people still think the new WCS format is good?
We are losing foreigners playing full time all day. Of course Scarlett says that she is bored, but it is obviously also a problem of lacking monetary incentives. The games were a lot worse but the scene was so much more interesting 2 years ago before this Koreans everywhere bullshit started...
Who exactly have we lost that was worth a lot to the scene and couldn't be replaced?
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burrowed banelings saving e-sports
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People do grow out of gaming.
Some people don't, some people do.
Why can't the community just accept it when she has pretty much stated the reason clearly? Do we really have to blame it on the game/balance/wcs and just ignore this fact?
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On November 24 2013 09:40 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. Not making fun of people if you don't know how they'll take it is indeed a good idea when thousands of people are watching you.
Sounds like you just singled out a lot of famous comedians.
On November 24 2013 11:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. In general, society would be better if we did not enjoy ridiculing those different from us. I know you think it's normal to attack others, but society is better off without your mind set.
There's a difference between ill-willed personal insults and humorous off-beat comments about someone for laughs. But we obviously disagree, I take it.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy
I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
This makes me sad
Scarlett nuuuuuuuuu
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On November 24 2013 13:26 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 09:40 blackone wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. Not making fun of people if you don't know how they'll take it is indeed a good idea when thousands of people are watching you. Sounds like you just singled out a lot of famous comedians. Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. In general, society would be better if we did not enjoy ridiculing those different from us. I know you think it's normal to attack others, but society is better off without your mind set. There's a difference between ill-willed personal insults and humorous off-beat comments about someone for laughs. But we obviously disagree, I take it.
Not to mention that 2gd couldn't care less if he gets sacked since he has his own studio, lots of money and a pretty substantial fanbase that love his sense of humour.
People have to learn that a joke is just that, a joke. There is a difference between that and insulting someone or making fun of them to make them feel bad. A joke should never be frowned upon, do you really think 2gd is a bigot? I certainly don't. I make jokes like that all the time, I have jokes spat at me like that all the time because i'm Bisexual, and I rarely take offence.... the only time I do is when the "joke" is obviously meant as an insult or aimed to hurt.... which 2gd very rarely does.
on topic:
Would be sad to see Scarlett go, a very talented player and a good role model for young guys and girls in general. But thats life, not everyone becomes a progamer with the intent of doing it for 10 years.
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On November 24 2013 13:26 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 09:40 blackone wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. Not making fun of people if you don't know how they'll take it is indeed a good idea when thousands of people are watching you. Sounds like you just singled out a lot of famous comedians. Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. In general, society would be better if we did not enjoy ridiculing those different from us. I know you think it's normal to attack others, but society is better off without your mind set. There's a difference between ill-willed personal insults and humorous off-beat comments about someone for laughs. But we obviously disagree, I take it.
A lot of famous comedians use observational comedy to talk about their own lives in a way that reveals a truth about the human condition and the hardships of human lives.
Some guy talking about scarlett being in a porno is not off-beat humor, it is relegation of the feminine as sexual object to be jacked off to.
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While I'm sure some people are just getting offended at the James Harding comment for the sake of having something to be offended about, it must be acknowledged that 2gd violated a pretty basic tenet of ethical behavior by refusing to own up to his comments when he was directly confronted about their affect on Scarlett by his co-caster Incontrol. Regardless of your views on the quality of his humor or the appropriateness of his chosen venue for blessing us viewers with his inane drunk ramblings, when his response to a specific grievance consisted of refusing to directly apologize and then making another joke of possibly even greater risk of offense, he clearly is stepping over the boundaries of what can be considered merrymaking into straight-up targeted harassment towards a sexual minority.
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On November 24 2013 02:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Players like Scarlett and Stephano are so important for the scene. Hopefully she changes her mind. Title has been edited now but that was a really shitty and inaccurate title.
jaeh instant you are the best foreign, you retire so sad
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On November 24 2013 15:29 Pontius Pirate wrote:
when his response to a specific grievance consisted of refusing to directly apologize and then making another joke of possibly even greater risk of offense, he clearly is stepping over the boundaries of what can be considered merrymaking into straight-up targeted harassment towards a sexual minority.
Yeah who the fuck is he to be insulting one of the best sc2 players. I can't believe he had the balls to do it at an event she was actually attending. I'm done watching his content.
Very sad to hear Scarlett is planning on retiring. Hopefully she changes her mind. This game can be so demoralizing when you're on a losing streak. And let's face it, 90% of Scarlett's fans came from her wins.
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damn, next week Scarlett has to be in Singapore already for the IEM? no wonder shes feeling exhausted. Europe --> NY ---> Singapore within 2 weeks of each other is nuts.
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1. Reads comments
2. Thinks there's some juicy titbit about 2GD and Scarlett in the interview
3. Scours the interview for anything about 2GD
4. Finds nothing
Mehh =\
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On November 24 2013 03:10 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. That was hilarious.
Not really. I get the whole freedom of speech etc. but some people are just assholes. You know that saying "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." 2GD is an asshole and the fact that he was able to make a name for himself by doing nothing other than offending people says a lot about todays society. Lets just wrap it up in a joke and everything is fine, if you dont get the joke, it is your problem, right?
I like how FIFA has 0 tolerance policy to any kind of racism or glorification of certain political regimes, too bad we don't have anything like that for "eSports".
Same goes for Naniwa, although I don't think he is really that mean, but when people start acting like assholes that behavior should be judged, not defended by some lame excuses or encouraged.
On topic, I doubt that is the reason Scarlett is thinking of retiring but it is better to retire than to force yourself into doing something that you no longer consider fun, especially since we are talking about a game that requires serious commitment.
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It's getting depressing to be a Starcraft fan lately, so many people retiring and so few people replacing them. Hard to feel good about anything Sc2 nowadays.
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On November 24 2013 17:19 Defury wrote:
It's getting depressing to be a Starcraft fan lately, so many people retiring and so few people replacing them. Hard to feel good about anything Sc2 nowadays.
People have always retired and there is plenty of new blood to replace them. Everyone was saying the same thing when Jinro retired and when Idra stopped posting high results and retired, and then scarlett came along to replace them. There are plenty of up and coming players like Dayshi, Babynight, xenocider, suppy etc You just need to dig a bit deeper than the high profile events.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
On November 24 2013 17:16 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:10 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 03:07 Dinotramp wrote:On November 24 2013 03:05 E.L.V.I.S wrote:On November 24 2013 02:52 Fuell wrote:
the 2gd incident What incident is that ? He said she was the best of both worlds. That was hilarious. Not really. I get the whole freedom of speech etc. but some people are just assholes. You know that saying "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." 2GD is an asshole and the fact that he was able to make a name for himself by doing nothing other than offending people says a lot about todays society. Lets just wrap it up in a joke and everything is fine, if you dont get the joke, it is your problem, right? I like how FIFA has 0 tolerance policy to any kind of racism or glorification of certain political regimes, too bad we don't have anything like that for "eSports".Same goes for Naniwa, although I don't think he is really that mean, but when people start acting like assholes that behavior should be judged, not defended by some lame excuses or encouraged. On topic, I doubt that is the reason Scarlett is thinking of retiring but it is better to retire than to force yourself into doing something that you no longer consider fun, especially since we are talking about a game that requires serious commitment.
Oh come on, FIFA are an absolute joke in that regard who generally only step in to cover the most basic offences. When asked about the workers rights/slave furore in Qatar, recently Franz Beckenbauer outright denied the possibility, as if the likes of Amnesty International would just make something like that up.
The organisation that gave Qatar a World Cup where homosexuality is illegal, and Russia where ye government appears to actively be trying to cultivate an anti-gay climate?
I could go on.
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How ironic. I was never much for cheering for foreigners, but after Scarlett's series against Bomber at Red Bull, I could really see myself rooting for her. Then this.
Well, we'll see how it turns out, but it would be a shame if Scarlett retires.
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On November 24 2013 15:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 13:26 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 09:40 blackone wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. Not making fun of people if you don't know how they'll take it is indeed a good idea when thousands of people are watching you. Sounds like you just singled out a lot of famous comedians. On November 24 2013 11:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 24 2013 09:19 sumsaR wrote:On November 24 2013 07:49 anatase wrote:
about that 2gd comment being oversensitive has nothing to do with being hurt by such impressive comments. He was making fun of someone else too different from him for him to actually understand what its like. that's dickhead and it should not happen on broadcast and not at any tournament. You don't try to push for esport and tolerate such behavior at such a level. On that basis you'd not be able to make fun of another gender (and a crapload of other situations) either, as that same principle should apply then too. In general, society would be better if we did not enjoy ridiculing those different from us. I know you think it's normal to attack others, but society is better off without your mind set. There's a difference between ill-willed personal insults and humorous off-beat comments about someone for laughs. But we obviously disagree, I take it. A lot of famous comedians use observational comedy to talk about their own lives in a way that reveals a truth about the human condition and the hardships of human lives. Some guy talking about scarlett being in a porno is not off-beat humor, it is relegation of the feminine as sexual object to be jacked off to.
Worst part about his joke is that I swear he's said the exact same thing word for word before. Pretty sure it was on one of the drunken Christmas SotG's.
If you're an offensive comedian, you're just constantly toeing a line. One that uses the same joke repeatedly...well, that's just sad.
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There really isn't much to discuss. Games are meant to be fun. You shouldn't waste your time on a game you no longer enjoy that much. When I see people like Avilo and Idra - people who feel committed to play because of their fame - and see how dissatisfied they are with their gaming experience, that's when I know that they have lost the purpose of their lives. You need to be highly intelligent to realize that something that is profitable for you socially or financially is not necessarily good for you. People shouldn't be concerned about Scarlett changing her mind, they should just be happy that she does whatever she thinks is best.
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You've got to remember that she came into the scene through Marine Arena and thus associates Starcraft 2 with being fun.
If it is no longer fun to play, you don't play it. It's got nothing to do with the game changing or the game sucking or anything - you only have to watch her own games to notice she still associates SC2 with the overwhelming thrill of winning, like most of us do.
However, she is getting older and ultimately being a pro gamer is only fulfilling for a few years. I am nearing my 30s now and I find gaming less fulfilling with each passing year despite only ever being a casual gamer. I imagine it happens ten times as fast when it is your job.
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On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)
Not really. Despite esports gaining ground in some countries (most notably Germany and Sweden) it's still a fringe activity in most and the general consensus is that it's not a good idea to give up a good education to go play video games 12 hours a day.
This doesn't mean that gaming in general isn't gaining ground rapidly in the EU. It is, especially among teenagers, but esports is still something only the hardcore few watch or even care about. Most people would rather play video games than watch them.
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On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough.
I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis.
She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority.
There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Sigh, that sort of nonsense from her fans makes it frustrating to be supportive of Scarlett.
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On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be.
Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute.
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Until Scarlett comes out and says, "I'm hanging up my keyboard and mouse, I've played my last game of SC2" I won't believe it. And even then the scene was around before Scarlett the scene will be around after Scarlett. There will be another Foreigner hope it's just the who if not when. Maybe its because I am not an ultra fan boy, actually to be fair I'm not really a fan of Scarlett's at all, but I am entirely indifferent to the decision of retirement. If Scarlett retired tomorrow I'd say, "such is life" (Forgot how to spell that in french and didn't want to butcher it.) And in a weeks time we'd all move on and prop up a new idol.
The reality is, we'd be much more affected by certain personalities retiring then by players. For instance of Incontrol said, "Fuck it guys, I'm done with the community and content, Anna and I are gonna work on having kids, Peace out." we would honestly miss him. If JP were to say, "You know what guys I'm going back to University to study the art of interpretive dance, so I wont be streaming or making content." We would notice that, or if the owners of TL were to say, "Were shutting down the website because we can, less QQ more Pew Pew." We would feel a genuine affect. Reality is; Scarlett's departure would be a small ripple on the community a big one for the super fan's but we would all move on. Players come and go, they have their primes, and they fall down, but our established personalities, well they are the all comforting pablum that the community needs.
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depends on how much money she's making.
being bored is one thing, having a job is another. if she makes anything close to an average yearly salary for a 20-something, she will be back, period. She'll try to do a 9-to-5, and she will see how different taking shit from your boss is from taking adoration from her fans and she'll be back. Fun has nothing to do with it.
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On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute.
This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another.
Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy.
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TIL "one of the main" = "only".
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On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. Go educate yourself buddy.
/thread
User was warned for this post
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On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy.
I never said that she was popular because she's a transsexual, I said that it's the main reason she gets as much attention as she does. She's probably not the only foreigner with 20,000+ followers on twitter.
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All this cis-splaining is fucking hilarious, or it would be if it wasn't so tragic.
Scarlett is the easiest player to be a fan of by a country mile, and I hope she keeps playing something, because it might be difficult to be a fan of Office worker Scarlett.
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On November 24 2013 19:43 1Dhalism wrote:
depends on how much money she's making.
being bored is one thing, having a job is another. if she makes anything close to an average yearly salary for a 20-something, she will be back, period. She'll try to do a 9-to-5, and she will see how different taking shit from your boss is from taking adoration from her fans and she'll be back. Fun has nothing to do with it.
Sheep mentality. Lots of people quit poker despite the fact that they made significant amounts of money doing it. There are plenty of people who realize you only have one life to live and who don't want to squander it doing something that isn't meaningful. Money isn't everything. Not everyone agrees that the only option in life is to be a slave to what's most profitable financially in the immediate.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
On November 24 2013 22:32 Kerotan wrote:
All this cis-splaining is fucking hilarious, or it would be if it wasn't so tragic.
Scarlett is the easiest player to be a fan of by a country mile, and I hope she keeps playing something, because it might be difficult to be a fan of Office worker Scarlett.
Cis-splaining? :s New phrase to me sorry.
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On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy.
I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality.
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On November 25 2013 07:21 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy. I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality.
I don't know what you're trying to prove or say. You're probably just another closet bigot. You seem to be highly confused about what a personality is. A person can be shy and still have a great personality. Saying Koreans are faceless is just flat out racist.
Did you just call Scarlett somewhat skilled? You do realize she just beat bomber 2-1, sos 2-3 (after going 2-0 then losing 3 in a row) and 2-0 vs mc. In the game vs mc, mc was dominated so badly she looked like she was playing a different game. You would think that her accomplishments as a player would make you at least respect Scarlett for her skill, but alas bigots can never see past their nose.
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On November 25 2013 07:39 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 07:21 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy. I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality. I don't know what you're trying to prove or say. You're probably just another closet bigot. You seem to be highly confused about what a personality is. A person can be shy and still have a great personality. Saying Koreans are faceless is just flat out racist. Did you just call Scarlett somewhat skilled? You do realize she just beat bomber 2-1, sos 2-3 (after going 2-0 then losing 3 in a row) and 2-0 vs mc. In the game vs mc, mc was dominated so badly she looked like she was playing a different game. You would think that her accomplishments as a player would make you at least respect Scarlett for her skill, but alas bigots can never see past their nose.
I don't know how to say it any clearer then I already have and nothing I said was bigoted. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me one, and I could honestly careless about Scarlett because personality wise I find Scarlett to be about as interesting as a rock. And faceless Korean is a way to describe a player from Korea that is very good but doesn't have a personality that distinguishes them from any of their contemporaries. I'd say Innovation although very good fits this bill perfectly, absolutely polite, never offends anybody, no doubt a good human being but ultimately forgettable if he didn't win.
And yes I did, and that's what Scarlett is somewhat good. Not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, somewhat skilled. I substitute that for mediocre. Today's results not withstanding, I am not going to bow down and say all hail Scarlett because of a good performance. And again I am not being disrespectful I am just not a fan of Scarlett nor am I a hater, I am entirely indifferent to Scarlett and don't care either way. Your far more emotionally invested in Scarlett then I am so your seeing insults and bigotry where there is none. It's okay I get it I am a huge fan of MVP but I realize that he is not perfect and as such I don't run off to white knight for him for the slightest of insults whether they be perceived or actual.
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On November 24 2013 19:43 1Dhalism wrote:
depends on how much money she's making.
being bored is one thing, having a job is another. if she makes anything close to an average yearly salary for a 20-something, she will be back, period. She'll try to do a 9-to-5, and she will see how different taking shit from your boss is from taking adoration from her fans and she'll be back. Fun has nothing to do with it.
To be frank, eSports business offers such little long term stability, I see it hard for people to stay in the business just for the money. Unless you're a "personality" that is...
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Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all.
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Everybody can have his/her own opinion but to call Scarlett "somewhat skilled" or mediocre is just plain wrong. That'd be like me saying "Well, in my opinion 1+1=3".
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On November 25 2013 08:31 Azelja wrote:
Everybody can have his/her own opinion but to call Scarlett "somewhat skilled" or mediocre is just plain wrong. That'd be like me saying "Well, in my opinion 1+1=3".
maybe because I don't look at Scarlett with the reduced expectations of a Foreigner I see Scarlett as an SC2 player not the best foreigner and when compared to her contemporaries; Scarlett is simply somewhat skilled and mediocre. Better then innovation? Better then maru? Better then Dear ? Better then Soulkey? I don't think so, comparing Scarlett to all the other pro-players Scarlett is middle of the pack. I don't see how this is unfair or inaccurate and it certainly doesn't equate to 1+1=3. It is an honest assessment of Scarlett's skills at this point in time.
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On November 25 2013 08:12 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 07:39 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 25 2013 07:21 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy. I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality. I don't know what you're trying to prove or say. You're probably just another closet bigot. You seem to be highly confused about what a personality is. A person can be shy and still have a great personality. Saying Koreans are faceless is just flat out racist. Did you just call Scarlett somewhat skilled? You do realize she just beat bomber 2-1, sos 2-3 (after going 2-0 then losing 3 in a row) and 2-0 vs mc. In the game vs mc, mc was dominated so badly she looked like she was playing a different game. You would think that her accomplishments as a player would make you at least respect Scarlett for her skill, but alas bigots can never see past their nose. I don't know how to say it any clearer then I already have and nothing I said was bigoted. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me one, and I could honestly careless about Scarlett because personality wise I find Scarlett to be about as interesting as a rock. And faceless Korean is a way to describe a player from Korea that is very good but doesn't have a personality that distinguishes them from any of their contemporaries. I'd say Innovation although very good fits this bill perfectly, absolutely polite, never offends anybody, no doubt a good human being but ultimately forgettable if he didn't win. And yes I did, and that's what Scarlett is somewhat good. Not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, somewhat skilled. I substitute that for mediocre. Today's results not withstanding, I am not going to bow down and say all hail Scarlett because of a good performance. And again I am not being disrespectful I am just not a fan of Scarlett nor am I a hater, I am entirely indifferent to Scarlett and don't care either way. Your far more emotionally invested in Scarlett then I am so your seeing insults and bigotry where there is none. It's okay I get it I am a huge fan of MVP but I realize that he is not perfect and as such I don't run off to white knight for him for the slightest of insults whether they be perceived or actual.
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument".
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On November 25 2013 08:44 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:31 Azelja wrote:
Everybody can have his/her own opinion but to call Scarlett "somewhat skilled" or mediocre is just plain wrong. That'd be like me saying "Well, in my opinion 1+1=3". maybe because I don't look at Scarlett with the reduced expectations of a Foreigner I see Scarlett as an SC2 player not the best foreigner and when compared to her contemporaries; Scarlett is simply somewhat skilled and mediocre. Better then innovation? Better then maru? Better then Dear ? Better then Soulkey? I don't think so, comparing Scarlett to all the other pro-players Scarlett is middle of the pack. I don't see how this is unfair or inaccurate and it certainly doesn't equate to 1+1=3. It is an honest assessment of Scarlett's skills at this point in time.
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me.
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On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all.
And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews.
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On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:12 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 07:39 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 25 2013 07:21 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 24 2013 20:33 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 24 2013 19:19 maartendq wrote:On November 24 2013 19:07 RESOqub wrote:On November 24 2013 10:22 Cereb wrote:
Wooow. If she leaves...That would be a disaster for the SC2 scene :S
If I were Blizzard I secretly pay her money to have her stay. She is worth so much for the scene. Maybe giving all the money in SC2 to one nation for an entire year wasn't the best idea.
Scarlett and Naniwa are really the only ones at high level Korean play. Would be a shame losing 50 % of that!
I can understand getting bored of this / any game when you play it too much. I tried playing SC2 full time for just like 2 months and I was exhausted and bored even though I love the game and wanted to compete. Your body starts to hurt as well, it's really tough and when you can't even get the glory of getting a tournament win despite being top 2 non-Korean player...It has got to be tough. I actually happen to agree with this solely on one basis. She's a transgender gamer who also happens to be the best foreign scene player by an absolute country mile. In a scene filled with complete scumbags (including several virtually venerated on this forum) and enough testosterone to sink a sperm donation liner, she is a decent, caring, completely out of the ordinary member of a minority. There's a good reason why she gets more attention than the ten top LoL teams get from the mainstream media. She is unique in a way no group of screaming broish-ballbags will ever be. Ironically, one of the main reason she gets so much attention is because she's a transgender. She doesn't have the crazy personality of Stephano, the great sense of humour of InControl or the charisma of Tasteless. From what I've seen and heard of her so far, she looks like a relatively introverted person that doesn't like being the centre of attention but she involuntarily is because she's a transgender. If she weren't, she'd just be any other foreigner that manages to take a series from a Korean once in a while, not that different from let's say Nerchio or Snute. This is total bullshit. She had a couple thousand twitter followers even after her break out performance at ipl. It wasnt till several months later and several more top finishes that she gained her 20k twitter followers. She is one of the most dedicated foreigners out there (only reason shes not practicing in Korea right now is nobody would take her in). Shes given this game her life and won every fan from one spectacular performance after another. Now some idiot comes on here and says shes only popular cuz shes trans. Go educate yourself buddy. I don't think he was saying that at all. He was saying that Scarlett is an introverted person. I'll put it to you this way, if Scarlett was Korean and not transgendered would we care? To me Scarlett would be a faceless Korean not a strong personality like an MC. But Scarlett's a Canadian and somewhat skilled, still Scarlett wouldn't stand out from the foreigner zergs. Add the transgender aspect in and suddenly Scarlett stands out much more. And a few thousand twitter followers doesn't mean that much, its not a huge social reach, I'm fairly certain that Catz had more at that point with the results he had. Personality means quite abit more and Scarlett doesn't really show that much because that is Scarlett's personality. I don't know what you're trying to prove or say. You're probably just another closet bigot. You seem to be highly confused about what a personality is. A person can be shy and still have a great personality. Saying Koreans are faceless is just flat out racist. Did you just call Scarlett somewhat skilled? You do realize she just beat bomber 2-1, sos 2-3 (after going 2-0 then losing 3 in a row) and 2-0 vs mc. In the game vs mc, mc was dominated so badly she looked like she was playing a different game. You would think that her accomplishments as a player would make you at least respect Scarlett for her skill, but alas bigots can never see past their nose. I don't know how to say it any clearer then I already have and nothing I said was bigoted. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me one, and I could honestly careless about Scarlett because personality wise I find Scarlett to be about as interesting as a rock. And faceless Korean is a way to describe a player from Korea that is very good but doesn't have a personality that distinguishes them from any of their contemporaries. I'd say Innovation although very good fits this bill perfectly, absolutely polite, never offends anybody, no doubt a good human being but ultimately forgettable if he didn't win. And yes I did, and that's what Scarlett is somewhat good. Not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, somewhat skilled. I substitute that for mediocre. Today's results not withstanding, I am not going to bow down and say all hail Scarlett because of a good performance. And again I am not being disrespectful I am just not a fan of Scarlett nor am I a hater, I am entirely indifferent to Scarlett and don't care either way. Your far more emotionally invested in Scarlett then I am so your seeing insults and bigotry where there is none. It's okay I get it I am a huge fan of MVP but I realize that he is not perfect and as such I don't run off to white knight for him for the slightest of insults whether they be perceived or actual. Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument".
Why have arguments when you can just call people names like RESOqub, Traffic and yourself?
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On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument".
When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players.
On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me.
Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to.
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On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)
For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc
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On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players. Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me. Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to.
It's just kind of overly provocative to come in and say her attention is due to her transgender status rather than her skill, when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea.
And the whole argument that there are "faceless" Koreans is only valid if you also admit there are faceless foreigners who are just as common among foreign players as faceless Koreans are among Korean players. So you'd be better off saying "faceless player" rather than Korean because otherwise there's an implication that you think it applies to Koreans more than others. Since it's so dangerously close to the old racist idea that all Asians look alike, it's reasonable to conclude you have some subconscious racism at work if you think more Koreans are faceless than foreigners are.
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On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc
Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
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On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews.
that's not true
Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless.
Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok.
it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews.
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On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
It's gotten slightly better over the past few years.. but yeah, Canada is still lacking in internet technology compared to US and most countries of EU.
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On November 25 2013 11:37 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it because I never said anything derogatory regarding Scarlett or Scarlett's lifestyle. I could care less, and I have the right to call someone out for turning all criticism around into, "You don't love Scarlett must be a bigot." It's oversensitivity and white knighting at its worst when nothing I said was deliberately offensive proof of that no TL moderator has warned me or banned me for anything I said and generally speaking mods here are pretty damn good at doing those things to posters who are offensive/ attack players. On November 25 2013 08:49 Azelja wrote:
Depends on what you think "mediocre" means. I'd say she's probably in the top ten Zergs and that doesn't sound mediocre at all to me. Top 10 maybe as of this moment, and SC2 is a game very much about the moment, a strong result today could see Scarlett fall off a cliff tomorrow and maybe resurrect a year down the road. I'd make the judgement of top 10 not mediocre when that first big win happens and is followed by consistency. But if Scarlett is truly considering retirement then this in my opinion is where she will be relegated to. It's just kind of overly provocative to come in and say her attention is due to her transgender status rather than her skill, when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea. And the whole argument that there are "faceless" Koreans is only valid if you also admit there are faceless foreigners who are just as common among foreign players as faceless Koreans are among Korean players. So you'd be better off saying "faceless player" rather than Korean because otherwise there's an implication that you think it applies to Koreans more than others. Since it's so dangerously close to the old racist idea that all Asians look alike, it's reasonable to conclude you have some subconscious racism at work if you think more Koreans are faceless than foreigners are.
I never said that there are not faceless foreigners, I don't disagree I've just seen that term thrown around here quite abit and it is fitting. Scarlett to me fits that bill because I don't care about the whole foreigner / Korean thing, to me there are only interesting and boring players. Only recently through interviews did I get to see really anything about Scarlett then again I'm not one to pay attention to such things as I don't really follow zerg players. So to me and alot of people the clear identifier of Scarlett like it or not is the Transgender thing. I honestly didn't know that Scarlett was I assumed girl until that fact was thrown out there by the community. And again find a thread where Scarlett is the title where this is not brought up by someone. I posted earlier about my thoughts on page 8 without addressing the so called transgender issue (I say so called because to me its not an issue until its forced.) of Scarlett. I honestly don't care about a players lifestyle the very same way I don't care about a hockey players lifestyle I only care about what they do in games.
As for the subconscious racism that's assuming alot, the term faceless Korean is thrown around alot more then faceless player even in the write ups leading to the recent WCS finals. If a writer can use the term and not be accused of subconscious racism why can't I? I am more so lead to believe that the problem isn't that I am subconsciously racist or bigoted but that the community is overly sensitive to these things. In the news there was a young guy that is white who grew up in a predominantly black community, he said, " Whut up my <N-word>" to his friends he got suspended for hate speech; this confused the hell out of him and his friends who were all black and of the same age. None of the people who the comment was directed towards were offended as they often said the same thing to that person. It was only when someone got miffed about it was it perceived as racist or hate speech. Same-thing here I don't think its subconscious racism to refer to a Korean player that other then being good we know nothing about as a faceless Korean that is simply by definition what that player is until they do something to stand out. Now applying the same filter to Scarlett until recently Scarlett would have been by definition a faceless player but for one thing.
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On November 25 2013 11:53 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews. that's not true Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless. Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok. it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews.
You kind of just made my point there, alot of Korean's remain faceless until the opportunity presents itself to express personality. And even then some choose the generic route, for some players that's okay as they can express their individuality through play style. Then you run into players like innovation who's personality isn't clearly defined and who's play style is robot like. Take away innovations championship and consistency and what do you remember him for? Throw MKP and we will always remember him for being unique. If MC retired tomorrow we would remember him as well. It's not our job as viewers to delve deep and look for something to be interesting about a player; its a players job to market and sell them self. This is something that a few players understand quite well, you don't need to be a champion to make a career in e-sports you just need to play well and be thoroughly engaging/ enjoyable to watch and that's something alot of players lack.
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On November 25 2013 14:16 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:53 ETisME wrote:On November 25 2013 08:51 B_Type13X2 wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 ElBlanco wrote:
Since when does Scarlett have no personality? I enjoy the way she acts in the booth, you can often see her toying with her opponents and having this big grin on her face when things are going well. She has a fun manner in the booth which is pretty rare in general. The way she commentates and talks about games i enjoy too. She actually breaks things down and is willing to actually talk about specific player flaws without necessarily being inflammatory but also without holding back like most people do. She isn't necessarily cocky like an MC but she exudes confidence and it's fun to see especially in a non Korean.
Would she be THIS well recognized if she wasn't a foreigner and wasn't transgender? Of course not. That doesn't instantly make her boring and that doesn't mean she would be a nobody. I'm not sure what the point of that discussion is. There is a specific reason why her accomplishments are held in such high regard (like stephano and naniwa). It's simply harder for a foreigner to reach the same level as a Korean, they don't get the same training and there simply isn't the same structures in place. That plus how often do you see female gamers performing at this level? If she gets slightly more praise than her skill deserves there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole faceless Korean thing is absolute bullsh*t and i can't help but feel there is a bit of a racist undertone to it. Plenty of the Koreans have personality. Bomber, MC, genius, DRG, marineking, leenock etc all show plenty of personality. I think most foreign players are pretty boring except for a select few just like in the Korean scene. The Koreans seem a little more focused but that isn't a bad thing at all. And that's exactly what the person before me had stated when he got called out and I was simply backing him up on it. And the faceless Korean thing isn't racist or BS compare it to your average Canadian hockey player, in interviews they all say the same exact thing about it being a team effort, really working hard, giving it their 100% playing good strong defensive hockey etc... Most Koreans in interviews are very polite towards their opponents, thankful to their fans, always promise to play hard for their fans etc... Very few have that spark that separates them from their contemporaries. And good for you listing all the Koreans that do stand out, there's fewer of them then of the other variety. How is it racist to say it when its a running joke up here about our hockey players, hell we have entire drinking games that revolve around the generic crap that gets said in interviews and you could make the same sort of drinking games around Korean players in interviews. that's not true Tell me which interview from protoss recently made you think they are faceless. Crank, Parting, sOs, Dear, Alicia, duckdeok. it's just the other pros rarely have a chance to get interviews. SoO for example is quite an interesting person when he finally got onto the GSL final stage and gets more interviews. You kind of just made my point there, alot of Korean's remain faceless until the opportunity presents itself to express personality. And even then some choose the generic route, for some players that's okay as they can express their individuality through play style. Then you run into players like innovation who's personality isn't clearly defined and who's play style is robot like. Take away innovations championship and consistency and what do you remember him for? Throw MKP and we will always remember him for being unique. If MC retired tomorrow we would remember him as well. It's not our job as viewers to delve deep and look for something to be interesting about a player; its a players job to market and sell them self. This is something that a few players understand quite well, you don't need to be a champion to make a career in e-sports you just need to play well and be thoroughly engaging/ enjoyable to watch and that's something alot of players lack.
I don't know why you emphasis on Koreans then, it's the same for foreigners as well
like I said, when was the last time you read an interview and think that korean protoss player is boring? I certainly can't recall any.
Results should come before personality. If they aren't as good as sOs, dear etc, they won't even get a chance to have the exposure.
Crazymoving for example was really interesting but what happened? he didn't reach high on tournaments and just disappeared from the scene.
You won't even be able to watch the engaging/enjoyable games because he didn't reach far enough.
Look at your example, MC, MKP, innovation are all top level players (or they once were).
personality, achievements, playstyle and their history adds to their frame, not other way around.
Everyone has their own uniqueness, it's just a matter if people appreciate it or not.
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On November 25 2013 11:37 Doodsmack wrote:
when her results objectively put her up with Naniwa as the top two foreigners who are legitimately equal in skill to a good portion of Koreans. That in turn makes her better than mediocre considering how difficult it is to reach that level of skill when not living full time in Korea.
Yeah, add to that, Naniwa can be BM, and in ways that viewers don't really get behind (unlike, say, PartinG's BM, or MC's BM, or Stephano's BM, or even Scarlett's BM, or really...any of a variety of people who have a sense of comedic timing). I have a couple of friends who cheer against Naniwa in every tournament he plays.
So...by merit of not having Naniwa's personality, I'd actually expect Scarlett to be more popular than Naniwa given their similar results. But I don't really see evidence for that. (Based on twitter...Scarlett has 20k followers, to Naniwa's 36k followers...and Stephano's 56k followers, Huk's 42k followers, Idra's 68k followers, Thorzain's 30k followers, Incontrol's 64k followers--although casters tend to have way more followers than players so Incontrol maybe shouldn't count, Sheth's 28k followers, WhiteRa's 42k followers, CatZ 22k followers, Ret 31k followers, Grubby's 48k followers, Destiny's 30k followers, Demuslim 41k, SeleCT 23k, Nony 26k, TLO 35k). Of course, foreigners do tend to be more popular than koreans of similar skill level; the few Koreans I found at a glance with more than 20k: Hero 26k, Taeja 21k, MC 42k, Jaedong 31k, MMA 22k.
But the point is, if she did have an unfair advantage in popularity, you'd expect that she'd maybe be in the top 10 most followed foreigners, given that she's top 2 in results right now.
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On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here.
If I remember correctly, the United States has pretty shit internet unless you're on a university campus or on Google Fiber.
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I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know.
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Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 25 2013 16:16 ladysman09 wrote:
Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal.
You actually believed that?
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On November 25 2013 15:59 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 11:38 Xiphos wrote:On November 25 2013 11:11 Chaggi wrote:On November 24 2013 13:45 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 24 2013 11:41 Chaggi wrote:
Literally doesn't surprise me. NA and EU doesn't have the industry to support pro-gamers full time as a career, and it's not even a stable post-game choice for anyone cause who knows what will happen after Legacy I think it's better EU in some respects(I say this off of stuff I've heard, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) For sure. EU has a lot of older teams from the CS/Quake/UT days and has a pretty good infrastructure. Combined with the fact that it's a relatively small area (compared to USA/Canada), and maybe(?) better internet, I wanna say that EU does well. But I don't think it's anything like how Korea is with KeSPA, Seoul being the one place, and the mass of PC Bang's, etc Can't say bout US but I can attest that Canada have very shitty internet. Its a big telecom monopoly over here. If I remember correctly, the United States has pretty shit internet unless you're on a university campus or on Google Fiber.
Your memory does not fail you. The infrastructure was all invested in during the 80s and early 90s, and now it's nothing but private enterprise building infrastructure, outside of colleges. Unfortunately, it's rarely more profitable for them to offer larger bandwidth or more efficient switching, so improvements are done incrementally, and at a snail's pace.
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On November 25 2013 09:01 B_Type13X2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Your post just screams "I just want to have an internet argument". When someone calls you a bigot for having an opinion then fucking yes I will argue against it
Look man, what is all boils down to is everyone of your posts in this thread is negative.
You're commenting on who she is rather than what she does. Nobody told you that you have to love Scarlett, but coming into her thread and saying she only gets attention because she's trans and her results are mediocre is just spreading false information/hate. Everyone of your posts confirms my suspicion that you're a bigot.
You don't seem to have educated yourself on Scarlett's results so here. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/4571_Scarlett/main/display-all-leagues She's beaten several Korean champions recently including MMA and Maru. All this while spending the majority of her sc2 career playing from home on NA server.
If you bothered to read the interview, she says her tendon issues are so bad she uses 2 alternating fingers to press her mouse buttons. That makes her accomplishments even more incredible.
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Derailing the thread a little bit, I still don't understand why so few people understand that a "faceless" player is not just a consequence of the player's personality, but also a consequence of how little you are exposed to him.
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Some people also think that Innovation has no personality because he spends his free time with taking walks instead of watching your favorite movie.
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well im not surprised.
the only non-korean that shouldnt retire would be naniwa.
sure its cool to call yourself "pro" but 99% of non korean pro gamers arent wining anything since like 2 years back.
starcraft is a korean scene, and the only one whos winning is NAniwa.
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Scarlett @AcerScarlett & Thanks everyone for watching and the support @redbullEsports hosts great tournaments ! I'll make sure to be back next year
I am confused, this tweet seems like she will keep going to be competitive. Can she do that not fulltime?
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Other players have taken breaks and come back successfully before her.
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After seeing that crazy stealth baneling burrow and explosion during the Red Bull Battlegrounds Im hoping this isnt true
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On November 25 2013 20:37 rezzan wrote:
well im not surprised.
the only non-korean that shouldnt retire would be naniwa.
sure its cool to call yourself "pro" but 99% of non korean pro gamers arent wining anything since like 2 years back.
starcraft is a korean scene, and the only one whos winning is NAniwa.
You can also make money by not winning, but consistently making it to RO8s of high-level tournaments. There are plenty of professional football (soccer) players who have never won (the local equivalent) of a Premier league title, or an FA cup, let alone have won a Euro- or Champions league. We do consider those 'professional' players, since they make their money with playing football.
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On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know.
Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them.
Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication.
If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English...
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On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English...
Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America.
The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 24 2013 05:03 Grollicus wrote:She should look into casting, hers was really good at HSC
I really hope that she won't. One of the reason I don't like her is her voice. The same was for Fuzer(I think) at the HSC last year. And I'm really surprised I actually like "Helium Dracula" Nightend(? I'm really bad at remembering names). And yes, I don't understand why, it's just feelings, you can't change them. Also she's zerg, not helping her very much.
STill it would be a big loss to sc2 scene.
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On November 25 2013 20:39 EXRNaRa wrote:Show nested quote + Scarlett @AcerScarlett & Thanks everyone for watching and the support @redbullEsports hosts great tournaments ! I'll make sure to be back next year I am confused, this tweet seems like she will keep going to be competitive. Can she do that not fulltime?
That is very polt of her.
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On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings.
If a top tier player speaks a language I don't understand, and follows customs I am unfamilliar with, I find them unrelateable. It's why I don't root for Hyun, SoS, or Parting. I simply have no idea what kind of person they are because so much of their personality is lost in translation so they become faceless. Wheras someone like MC speaks english and is able to communicate his bad-assery. Even someone like DuckDeok who deosn't speak english show enough displays of emotion to make themselves relateable. When rooting for players I consider these two Koreans on the same level as any foreigner for fan favorites.
When someone is detatched from your culture (mostly language) I find it incredibly difficult to relate and sympathize with that person because there is so much going on I don't understand. I mean there are basic human things like love, death, joy, and sorrow that usually break boundaries, but when I can't recognize any of those even when I really try to they look like a faceless person to me. You could make the arguement that the fans should learn Korean but that isn't really reasonable considering it is the fans that drive the ROI for the tournaments. And convincing the fans to learn korean you lay down the requirement that as a Starcaft fan you probably have to learn Korean if you want to get the full depth and relateability of the character. Wheras it should be the requirement to be a popular player you need to speak english.
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Can't blame Scarlett. Sure zerg looks like the right race for a solid non korean very talented player to do well as she is doing or Stephano did, but it's also boring and stale to play, to the point you want to quit even if you are one of the most successful players ever. It was a real shame she didn't reach the finals though, it was really close.
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On November 25 2013 22:12 red_hq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings. If a top tier player speaks a language I don't understand, and follows customs I am unfamilliar with, I find them unrelateable. It's why I don't root for Hyun, SoS, or Parting. I simply have no idea what kind of person they are because so much of their personality is lost in translation so they become faceless. Wheras someone like MC speaks english and is able to communicate his bad-assery. Even someone like DuckDeok who deosn't speak english show enough displays of emotion to make themselves relateable. When rooting for players I consider these two Koreans on the same level as any foreigner for fan favorites. When someone is detatched from your culture (mostly language) I find it incredibly difficult to relate and sympathize with that person because there is so much going on I don't understand. I mean there are basic human things like love, death, joy, and sorrow that usually break boundaries, but when I can't recognize any of those even when I really try to they look like a faceless person to me. You could make the arguement that the fans should learn Korean but that isn't really reasonable considering it is the fans that drive the ROI for the tournaments. And convincing the fans to learn korean you lay down the requirement that as a Starcaft fan you probably have to learn Korean if you want to get the full depth and relateability of the character. Wheras it should be the requirement to be a popular player you need to speak english.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415640
Who, other than nestea 2nd and 3rd win (lol too easy for him), doesn't show a damn happy face when they win?
how can you say something as naive as "they look like a faceless person to me"??
Or are you saying you honestly can't tell their emotions and differentiate them from one and another because they are koreans/asians?
I think it shows more of a problem of you not having a broad experience in the world rather than blaming the koreans not able to speak english.
How can you not know Parting personality when he has pretty much one of the most cocky attitude in Korean pro scene and shows it pretty clearly in almost every single interviews we got.
you talk about some emotions and personality in interviews being lost in translation yet you would prefer them to speak basic English.
You are not identifying them because you are understanding them more, you are identifying them as a pro who can speak English.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 25 2013 11:37 Doodsmack wrote:
And the whole argument that there are "faceless" Koreans is only valid if you also admit there are faceless foreigners who are just as common among foreign players as faceless Koreans are among Korean players. So you'd be better off saying "faceless player" rather than Korean because otherwise there's an implication that you think it applies to Koreans more than others. Since it's so dangerously close to the old racist idea that all Asians look alike, it's reasonable to conclude you have some subconscious racism at work if you think more Koreans are faceless than foreigners are.
I see it in the opposite light really. "Faceless Korean" has historically in SC2 normally even been "Faceless Korean Terran". And it *does* apply to Koreans more than foreigners. Why? Because there are so many really, really skilled Koreans. Without specific exposure to each player / a player speaking english / whatever reason, it's not that easy to relate to a specific player.
Whereas if a foreign player had this level of skill (say high Code A, low Code S, even mid Code S?) they'd instantly be venerated. What "Faceless Korean" means then is a super-skilled player in a large pool of super-skilled players, such that skill alone doesn't elevate them above their peers (like it does anywhere outside Korea).
Dunno why people have to paint it in a racist light at all, when the implication to me is quite the other way round.
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Yeah... so many players leaving.... this is getting worse every month; people loose interest in the game and that saddens me..
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Scarlett is the worst interview giver in the entire scene. Every single time she opens her mouth its, "oh i really wanna win but you know because of X Y and Z I dont think it will happen....yeah, just so you know, i dont even like this game much anymore anyways blahblahblah"
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I haven't watch much SC2 the past months but I did watch Scarlett this weekend, so fun to see a foreigner on par with the Koreans.
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Of course most of them show a happy face. I just never feel connected to them in any meaningful way. Look he just won that tournament, of course he's happy. I don't feel any connection there because to me they look like a faceless person, albeit a happy faceless person.On November 25 2013 22:31 GoldforGolden wrote:
Or are you saying you honestly can't tell their emotions and differentiate them from one and another because they are koreans/asians?
I think it shows more of a problem of you not having a broad experience in the world rather than blaming the koreans not able to speak english. There are faceless foriegners too and I bet even if some of the korean pros learned english they would still be faceles just on merit of personality.On November 25 2013 22:31 GoldforGolden wrote:
How can you not know Parting personality when he has pretty much one of the most cocky attitude in Korean pro scene and shows it pretty clearly in almost every single interviews we got.
you talk about some emotions and personality in interviews being lost in translation yet you would prefer them to speak basic English.
You are not identifying them because you are understanding them more, you are identifying them as a pro who can speak English. I really was just listing random Korean players I don't root for there so Parting slipping in there is a mistake. And yes, I would rather have basic english than fluent translation because then the player can directly communicate about themselves rather than a second hand experience. I always find the translations to be flat and dulled wheras even with MC's basic english I find it to be a lot more vibrant and entertaining. It's like when your friend retells a joke from a comedian, it's never as funny. If more Korean pros were able to speak english it would be easier to differentiate the stale flat personalities from the personality icons, we have an idea from the translations but there is a huge oportuinity for the korean players to increase their fanbase by learning english.
Just to be clear I'm not complaining about the faceless Korean thing, I don't mind that someone who I'm not rooting for wins.
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Just to be clear I'm not complaining about the faceless Korean thing
LOL. The only faceless person here is the bum on a message boards calling koreans sc2 pros faceless lol.
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United States97276 Posts
I hope this weekend changed her mind. Hopefully she can get another good result at IEM and/or the ASUS ROG tournament. She should be able to win Shoutcraft America, too. I know that's not a premier but it's still better than nothing. She seemed really happy about this weekend and it would be a shame to see her go.
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On November 25 2013 16:23 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:16 ladysman09 wrote:
Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal. You actually believed that?
Yes. I have no reason to think of stephano as a liar. I don't know why you have the need to do so.
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She did pretty well on RBBG...hope this could change her mind.
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On November 25 2013 22:26 aTnClouD wrote:
Can't blame Scarlett. Sure zerg looks like the right race for a solid non korean very talented player to do well as she is doing or Stephano did, but it's also boring and stale to play, to the point you want to quit even if you are one of the most successful players ever.
That's odd, I switched to zerg because I found it more fun. And look at TLO, a very creative player who switched to zerg years ago, obviously knows how to play multiple races, and still hasn't retired or switched races again?
Wait...aTnClouD? Aren't you that retired Terran player...?
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On November 26 2013 00:26 metroid composite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 22:26 aTnClouD wrote:
Can't blame Scarlett. Sure zerg looks like the right race for a solid non korean very talented player to do well as she is doing or Stephano did, but it's also boring and stale to play, to the point you want to quit even if you are one of the most successful players ever. That's odd, I switched to zerg because I found it more fun. And look at TLO, a very creative player who switched to zerg years ago, obviously knows how to play multiple races, and still hasn't retired or switched races again? Wait...aTnClouD? Aren't you that retired Terran player...?
That's him
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On November 25 2013 23:25 ladysman09 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:23 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 25 2013 16:16 ladysman09 wrote:
Well stephano managed to win and place high at a shit ton of tournaments and he only practiced an hour or less a day. The other times he just went clubbing or drinking somewhere. I don't think this is such a big deal. You actually believed that? Yes. I have no reason to think of stephano as a liar. I don't know why you have the need to do so.
Lol?
The reason to not believe him is the fact that he was so good.
About this, well it was a good run. Hopefully Scarlett finds something more fulfilling to do.
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I think she should quit and go to college personally. All pros have to make that choice eventually.....being a pro in SC 2 is really hard. It is sad because Scarlett and Naniwa repersent the foreign hope at so many tournaments.
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Health and education is more important than sc2.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Good showing at Redbull it looks like. Didn't get to see day 2 but looks like from the scores and placing she out up a good showing.
Await to see her next step with interest
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On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings.
WTF, I never said that I would force any pro player to learn English, I only said that if they cared about sc2 as an e-sport, with mostly an English-speaking following, they should consider learning some English. I never said that they shouldn't have a place in the sport, or that they should leave, I said that it would be better for SC2 if they'd learn some basic English communication. I'm fine with players not speaking English and only focusing on the game, I'm just saying that those do not really contribute to the growth of said game.
If they want SC2 to be a big sport in Korea only, with Korean sponsors and Korean tournaments - fine with me, it is a free world where people have to make these calls for themselves.
However, I would like the sc2 scene to stay international and to grow, and for that it would be good if at least a good proportion of the players would speak a little bit of English.
Calling me a bigot b/c of these viewpoints is absolute and utter bollocks, I speak 2 languages fluently outside of my native one and have lived a substantial amount of years in other countries... Even my wife isn't from my country, nor speaks my native language.
Look at this Red-Bull battleground - it was the first time that Parting did some trash talking in English, and he got a crowd reaction immediately - even when translated these kind of things don't really come across that well. And no, I didn't know before that Parting was a cocky kind of trash-talker...
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Can we PLEASE not continue derailing this thread into either discussions of transgendered issues or the 'faceless Korean' debate?
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On November 26 2013 01:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Can we PLEASE not continue derailing this thread into either discussions of transgendered issues or the 'faceless Korean' debate?
This is the TL forums. Where meaningful discussion and rational thought come to die. Where have you been?
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On November 26 2013 01:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 01:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Can we PLEASE not continue derailing this thread into either discussions of transgendered issues or the 'faceless Korean' debate? This is the TL forums. Where meaningful discussion and rational thought come to die. Where have you been?
Maybe I look in the wrong places, but could you show me some places with more meaningful discussion and rational thought for SC2?
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On November 26 2013 01:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Can we PLEASE not continue derailing this thread into either discussions of transgendered issues or the 'faceless Korean' debate?
I thought it was blindingly obvious she is quitting starcraft forever and ever because a faceless korean made a transgender joke through a translator that robbed him of all personality? Or did I miss something?
Anyway, speculation is pointless, either she is motivated or she is not, this game is draining in more ways than one and who knows, maybe she'll actually do better by not playing 10+ hours a day. Polt is doing great, studying full time and playing major tournaments. Some people can put their heads into the grind for years and years, others just end up with their spirit sapped, the thing that made them succeed in the first place.
Scarlett has had an insane schedule for the last 16 months or so, it was never going to be sustainable in the long run, it's just like Bane said, either the body or the spirit breaks. I know about trying to do too much of everything at once, it just means you end up spread too thin.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
By all means have the transgender discussion if Scarlett had said that prejudice was a contributory factor in her disliking SC2. Then it's pretty much obligatory to go on that tangent, but as she has made no mention of it I see it as irrelevant.
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On November 25 2013 15:00 ETisME wrote:
I don't know why you emphasis on Koreans then, it's the same for foreigners as well
like I said, when was the last time you read an interview and think that korean protoss player is boring? I certainly can't recall any.
Results should come before personality. If they aren't as good as sOs, dear etc, they won't even get a chance to have the exposure.
Crazymoving for example was really interesting but what happened? he didn't reach high on tournaments and just disappeared from the scene.
You won't even be able to watch the engaging/enjoyable games because he didn't reach far enough.
Look at your example, MC, MKP, innovation are all top level players (or they once were).
personality, achievements, playstyle and their history adds to their frame, not other way around.
Everyone has their own uniqueness, it's just a matter if people appreciate it or not.
OMG I used it as a turn of phrase and got jumped on for it by people trying to prove that I'm a bigot or a subconsciously racist. Its a common phrase around here to describe a Korean player who is highly skilled surrounded by other Korean players who are highly skilled so they get lost in the crowd. It means nothing else. At this point in time your nitpicking the hell out of a phrase in a sentence even after I agreed with you that foreigners can be just as faceless as Koreans. And frankly who the hell cares I never said all Korean players or even protoss in particular were boring nor did I allude to sOs, or dear or any of those players being boring in the first place. And you clearly didn't read what I said because Innovation is a terrible example of a player with a personality because as I stated, take away his world championship and what your left with is a player who is robotic in their execution and robotic in their personality. That's in stark contrast to MKP and MC who are colorful, who do or did creative things, show a sense of humor, and in MKP's case a profound sadness when he loses. That's identifiable and why I loved watching him play. I get no joy out of Innovation's play because it feels so synthetic, its like a very good computer is playing against a person. And in innovation's defense he has given a few interviews where he counters this and says its part of his composure fair enough but its more enjoyable for me the viewer to root for the person playing against innovation because of those things.
On November 25 2013 17:35 TRaFFiC wrote:Look man, what is all boils down to is everyone of your posts in this thread is negative. You're commenting on who she is rather than what she does. Nobody told you that you have to love Scarlett, but coming into her thread and saying she only gets attention because she's trans and her results are mediocre is just spreading false information/hate. Everyone of your posts confirms my suspicion that you're a bigot. You don't seem to have educated yourself on Scarlett's results so here. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/4571_Scarlett/main/display-all-leagues She's beaten several Korean champions recently including MMA and Maru. All this while spending the majority of her sc2 career playing from home on NA server. If you bothered to read the interview, she says her tendon issues are so bad she uses 2 alternating fingers to press her mouse buttons. That makes her accomplishments even more incredible.
I'm going to respond to this piece by piece.
My very first post in this thread was not negative towards Scarlett it was just stating that Scarlett's departure would hurt her mega fans but ultimately the community as a whole would move on in a month or so. Nothing negative there, my next response was in defense of another user who said she gets much more attention because of the Trans thing. Which like it or not is somewhat true, go to the first page of this very thread and there's reference to the 2gd incident. Like it or not if your the only _____ in any scene you garner more attention for it whether it be negative or positive stating that doesn't make you a bigot. I'm a bilateral amputee missing both of my legs below my knee's I work as a welder. Do you know how many legless welders there are currently working in North America? The answer to that is less then 10. Now what the hell does that have to do with Scarlett? Well do you know how people describe me? They say, "Oh yeah I've worked with _____ he's the guy without legs right?" That instantly gets me much more attention then I like to get however I don't make a big deal about people identifying me that way. And neither do my friends because its a true statement I am a legless welder and that makes me unique. Scarlett is a transgendered player boom true statement, that makes her unique boom true statement. What's hateful about saying it? And for the record, I didn't even know Scarlett was transgendered until about 4 months back because Scarlett played zerg and I honestly don't follow zerg players, other then say Stephano who was entertaining outside of the game.
Next point my comment on what she does is she is mediocre, skilled but mediocre when compared to her Korean contemporaries. And her results as of late good as they are back this up, because Scarlett has yet to take that next big step and win something major. Further I have the same opinion of Naniwa because he has yet to do the same thing. Again this is a matter of opinion on my part but I believe that the defining characteristic of what takes a player from mediocre to great is that one big tournament win in which Scarlett is still hunting for.
Next on the list I don't really care what Korean champions she beat recently because she failed to finish the job. Beating champions in a tournament didn't translate to the most important thing winning the tournament. MMA, and Maru have won the whole damn thing before, and they are still constantly in the hunt so I do regard them more highly then Scarlett because they were able to put all those strong performances together into that big win. If and when Scarlett does finally put it all together I will say she is a great player until then she is a strong player, definitely top level but there are so many top level players on the same level as Scarlett that when you compare her to other players in tournament brackets that I have to say she isn't better then them, that she doesn't stand out from the crowd, so she is mediocre when compared to her peers. I don't understand how this is an unfair statement because again I don't make the distinction between foreigner or korean they are simply SC2 players.
As for Scarlett's tendon issues, MVP has similar issues as does TaeJa they keep playing and its not really used as an excuse as to why they can't win X Y or Z. If Scarlett truly believes that the tendon issues have gotten so bad as to limit her ability to play the game then now's the time to stop before it adversely effects everything else in Scarlett's life. I'll put it this way, my favorite MMA fighter of all time is Mauricio "shogun" Rua for a long time when he lost his fans would say, "Bad knee's" or make some other excuse for it. I was guilty of doing that but eventually I realized that Shogun chose to be a fighter for a living and he chooses to fight with a body that has suffered alot of damage. He goes into the cage every time knowing his body isn't quite there and he's lost more then he's won over the past 3 years. I love watching him fight but I know he should stop, however he keeps doing it so I can't make that excuse for him. And frankly neither you nor Scarlett should make that statement as it shows a profound disrespect for her opponents. It's a built in excuse for losing, and we don't see TaeJa or MVP saying things like that. What it implies is, "Yeah you beat me because I have a bum _____ if my _____ was better I'd totally kick your ass."
And I am fully aware of how harsh that statement is, but I am sick of players and athletes who choose to play with injuries/ jet lag/ personal issues using statements like that as a crutch. You win or you lose as soon as you make the choice to play XYZ circumstance goes out the window because you've made the conscious choice by picking up your keyboard / mouse to play that that is not a serious enough issue to stop you from playing today EVEN IF IT SHOULD.
Finally when I opened this thread the other day I didn't intend on getting into a discussion about a players lifestyle as my first post in this thread should allude to. I opened it up because I was curious if we were seeing another player that could achieve so much more like Stephano could have was about to retire. Given Scarlett's recent tweets I don't think we have to worry about that. But if she were to retire, the scene would survive and we'd find another foreigner hope rinse and repeat.
I stand by my assertion that I have yet to say anything in this thread that is outright bigotry/ hate speech towards Scarlett's lifestyle. Proof of that is the very good moderators on this site haven't warned me or banned me for any of it as of yet. If I was truly being hateful and malicious in that regard I would be taking a trip to disneyland right now. And if I were to meet Scarlett tomorrow I would show her the most amount of respect as a person who knows what its like to be discriminated against. I'm a bilateral amputee, I have been denied jobs, publicly stared at, maliciously teased throughout school, and utterly humiliated. I get it, better then most, be careful who you go around calling a bigot.
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On November 26 2013 01:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
By all means have the transgender discussion if Scarlett had said that prejudice was a contributory factor in her disliking SC2. Then it's pretty much obligatory to go on that tangent, but as she has made no mention of it I see it as irrelevant.
In case you were responding to me, I was making a joke, albeit a poor one.
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@B_Type13X2
you can't just take away one's championships and then judge him.
that's like taking away obama's presidency and judge him as another guy with a good public speech talent.
innovation has close to perfect robotic play with an extremely high raw skill, with a matching robotic personality, how is that not interesting? Even without his achievements, his raw skill and his personality would have attracted tonnes of fans as well.
look at the top 20 WCS point list, who is a faceless pro?
Nobody.
Everyone has unique personalities and fans. why?
because they performed well and fans know them since they always reach high in tournaments and people know them more than the others.
they didn't need to be like MC or MKP to be popular, they just need to be themselves, a good player and people will follow/get to know them more.
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Hope she doesn't quit, she's awesome.
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speaking of scarlett, i have a question. did (s)he go ahead and chop off the dong and 'nads, or is that stuff still intact? also, if the answer is 'no,' does anyone know whether this is planned or not?
thanks.
User was banned for this post.
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On November 26 2013 04:42 hahablahblah wrote:
speaking of scarlett, i have a question. did (s)he go ahead and chop off the dong and 'nads, or is that stuff still intact? also, if the answer is 'no,' does anyone know whether this is planned or not?
thanks.
Can we ban bullshit like this?
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On November 26 2013 04:44 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:42 hahablahblah wrote:
speaking of scarlett, i have a question. did (s)he go ahead and chop off the dong and 'nads, or is that stuff still intact? also, if the answer is 'no,' does anyone know whether this is planned or not?
thanks. Can we ban bullshit like this?
I am reasonably sure it will be attended to before long.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
On November 26 2013 01:32 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 01:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
By all means have the transgender discussion if Scarlett had said that prejudice was a contributory factor in her disliking SC2. Then it's pretty much obligatory to go on that tangent, but as she has made no mention of it I see it as irrelevant.
In case you were responding to me, I was making a joke, albeit a poor one.
Your previous incarnation is in my sig quote, pretty obvious I enjoy your humour :p
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On November 24 2013 07:35 habibe wrote:
(Constant dehumanizing, reductive, fetishizing jokes made at your expense, never-ending harassment
That sounds like typical dialogue in your average sc2 stream or even sc2-related show. The difference in this case is not the level of the trash, it's the person involved.
There is a huge double standard in SC2, where the routine description of forced sexual activity as a euphemism for game dominance is defended as 'just the way we talk', but other jokes in that realm are not. If we're too believe the stats, the ratio of people who are sexually assaulted in a year and may be sensitive to comical references to it, compared to the amount who struggle with gender identity, is probably in the 100,000's of thousands. But one of those things has the political sensitivity that the other does not, and that makes the difference.
At the end of the day, people are ok with whatever nonsense aligns with their own cultural views and totally crazed about whatever nonsense offends it. That goes for both sides of the argument.
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Dont leave us Scarlett .
She provides such fun games, and she is always funny in an awkward way.
Her first few interviews were hilariously awkward :D
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On November 26 2013 07:12 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 01:32 Squat wrote:On November 26 2013 01:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
By all means have the transgender discussion if Scarlett had said that prejudice was a contributory factor in her disliking SC2. Then it's pretty much obligatory to go on that tangent, but as she has made no mention of it I see it as irrelevant.
In case you were responding to me, I was making a joke, albeit a poor one. Your previous incarnation is in my sig quote, pretty obvious I enjoy your humour :p
I still have not forgiven you for depriving me of the chance to immortalize you as the most rabid Hero fan ever with a thunderous introduction with that whole biggest fan interview shenanigans.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
If you ever meet me IRL, I am not exactly Mr Enthusiasm lol, even those titans of humanity like HerO I appreciate from a balanced and reserved emotional distance
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
On November 26 2013 07:32 NHL Fever wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 07:35 habibe wrote:
(Constant dehumanizing, reductive, fetishizing jokes made at your expense, never-ending harassment That sounds like typical dialogue in your average sc2 stream or even sc2-related show. The difference in this case is not the level of the trash, it's the person involved. There is a huge double standard in SC2, where the routine description of forced sexual activity as a euphemism for game dominance is defended as 'just the way we talk', but other jokes in that realm are not. If we're too believe the stats, the ratio of people who are sexually assaulted in a year and may be sensitive to comical references to it, compared to the amount who struggle with gender identity, is probably in the 100,000's of thousands. But one of those things has the political sensitivity that the other does not, and that makes the difference. At the end of the day, people are ok with whatever nonsense aligns with their own cultural views and totally crazed about whatever nonsense offends it. That goes for both sides of the argument.
The rape issue is actually one that (bar non-public figures) the community is largely expunging. In terms of high end content, when's the last time you heard the use of the word rape in that context?
Personally, I don't really see why rape is put on a pedestal in terms of sensitivity when referenced, but that notwithstanding I see the use of analogous references to it as definitely on the decline.
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On November 26 2013 02:08 GoldforGolden wrote:
@B_Type13X2
you can't just take away one's championships and then judge him.
that's like taking away obama's presidency and judge him as another guy with a good public speech talent.
innovation has close to perfect robotic play with an extremely high raw skill, with a matching robotic personality, how is that not interesting? Even without his achievements, his raw skill and his personality would have attracted tonnes of fans as well.
look at the top 20 WCS point list, who is a faceless pro?
Nobody.
Everyone has unique personalities and fans. why?
because they performed well and fans know them since they always reach high in tournaments and people know them more than the others.
they didn't need to be like MC or MKP to be popular, they just need to be themselves, a good player and people will follow/get to know them more.
Actually I can in regards to innovation because without his world championship and a handful of interviews; we have a player that is robotic in his execution of the game and shows very little emotional connection to the game. He is very introverted and hard for fan's to relate to. The same could be said for Obama if he wasn't president he would be an obscure Senator. And Innovations robotic style and personality isn't interesting to alot of people because like I stated before it is like watching a really good computer play a person. Few people are interested in that execution of the game outside of admiration for the mechanical cleanliness of it, it doesn't inspire.
Look your changing the parameters of the discussion at this point I didn't make specific reference to anyone other then Innovation on that list for my aforementioned reasons. I already defined what a faceless playere/ faceless korean is. And your answering back by saying they need to just be themselves and through our constant exposure to them we will get to know them. Well no kidding, where I work we just hired a new guy I don't know him right now but I'm pretty sure over the next few months I'll probably get to know him. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over, I've made my point about this topic and don't care to continue debating it when they parameters/ goal lines keep getting moved.
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On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings.
I was in the process of typing up a reply, then noticed the username of the person I was quoting.
Please leave TL. Your reading comprehension is nonexistent and you utterly lack the ability to make a post worth looking at.
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On November 26 2013 07:50 Wombat_NI wrote:If you ever meet me IRL, I am not exactly Mr Enthusiasm lol, even those titans of humanity like HerO I appreciate from a balanced and reserved emotional distance
You're irish, so you are forgiven. I suppose I'd be slightly salty to if whenever a countryman of mine appeared in a movie, it would actually be some bloke from Oklahoma with a horrible fake accent.
Fear not though, much like any half decent politician or priest, I never let the truth get in the way of good story. I would sell you as the long lost love-child of Ricky Martin and Taylor Swift, born for the lime light.
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Could we stop mentioning Scarlett's cock every time there's a thread about her?
I'd hate for SC2 to lose her, she's the only foreigner left who can stand up to Koreans, next to Naniwa of course.
Her almost killing sOs had me on the edge of my seat for the first time in months...
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On November 26 2013 08:09 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings. I was in the process of typing up a reply, then noticed the username of the person I was quoting. Please leave TL. Your reading comprehension is nonexistent and you utterly lack the ability to make a post worth looking at.
Telling people to speak your language for your benefit is by definition self centered and bigoted.
Its not the first time I've heard this type of talk in and out of TL and it won't be the last. People just feel its fine to make these kinds of statements just because its not about immigration policy, but as someone who had to prove that I had learned English or else not be allowed in the USA, I have heard the MANY variations people ask non-natives to change the way they speak. Some sound malicious, some sound friendly. They both mean the same thing.
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On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings.
If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for all them chinks to learn.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I know it's not right, but lately I catch myself ending streams whenever there are no more foreigners (Jaedong and Flash being the exception) in it. It's not logical or anything, I am just terribly bored with an all korean scene I guess. Seing players like scarlet not only adds massively to my sc2 related entertainment, in many events it's the only thing keeping me interested.
Yes I know I should favor skill over...blablabla, but that is not how I feel. I want someone to root for who can actually win something rather then do the foreigner first round dropout.
So in the end, at least for me, it would be nice if foreigners could start to practice like koreans and win stuff so I can again push money into shirts.
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On November 26 2013 08:23 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 08:09 forsooth wrote:On November 25 2013 21:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 25 2013 21:22 arie3000 wrote:On November 25 2013 16:08 glzElectromaster wrote:
I find it hilarious when people scream FACELESS KOREAN when they're probably not faceless in Korea. Not everyone speaks, or has to speak English, you know. Well, 'faceless' is quite a subjective term, so it's a little bit pointless to say x, y or z isn't faceless, just because you know them better or understand their language. Many people I walk past on the street are faceless (to me), but I guess that'd change if I talked to them. Fact is, a large proportion of the SC2 fan base (and thus a large premise of 'e-sports') is based in the EU and NA, and has adopted English as The Chosen Language For Communication. If players want to contribute to the growth of this fanbase, and connect with the people actually watching and supporting them, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for players to speak a little bit of English. MC is incredibly funny, and has the most amazing humor, and he was criticizing players for not speaking English... Speaking like 100% of the bigots I know in America. The "if you don't speak/act murican then gtfo my country" philosophy of seeing other human beings. I was in the process of typing up a reply, then noticed the username of the person I was quoting. Please leave TL. Your reading comprehension is nonexistent and you utterly lack the ability to make a post worth looking at. Telling people to speak your language for your benefit is by definition self centered and bigoted.
Well, you certainly didn't waste any time proving me absolutely right.
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I don't think the problem lies with Koreans destroying foreigners, it's more about faceless KESPA-robots destroying everyone else.
It was easy to root for MC, or MVP, or MKP, or Nestea and still is for Jaedong, but who the fuck is supposed to keep up with 60+ interchangeable robots who are within .5% skill of each other? I know, Artosis probably has a fun anecdote or interesting fact about each and every one of them, but the average SC2-viewer who watches a couple of hours of a tournament every other week can't distinguish one KESPArian from another.
When MC and Scarlett met in this tournament, I didn't know for whom to root, because they're both characters who grew on me for the past two years, but I hadn't even heard of soS or sOo or however the guy is called before he won WCS, so I didn't care if he won the tournament or got hit by a bus.
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On November 26 2013 08:27 Vanimar wrote:
I know it's not right, but lately I catch myself ending streams whenever there are no more foreigners (Jaedong and Flash being the exception) in it. It's not logical or anything, I am just terribly bored with an all korean scene I guess. Seing players like scarlet not only adds massively to my sc2 related entertainment, in many events it's the only thing keeping me interested.
Yes I know I should favor skill over...blablabla, but that is not how I feel. I want someone to root for who can actually win something rather then do the foreigner first round dropout.
So in the end, at least for me, it would be nice if foreigners could start to practice like koreans and win stuff so I can again push money into shirts.
I am/was in the same boat. I haven't watched SC2 in months because I'm burned out on Korean domination. Especially in WCS America and Europe. It made things pretty boring to me.
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Like honestly WHO THE FUCK CARES what race / gender / color / someone is? We should only be considered with there overall gameplay and skill....We are in this community for the game, the people are just a lovely addition, everyone is different in there own way, for anyone to judge someone else because of there physical appearance is downright stupid, get off your high horses and realize that the ONLY reason we are all here is because of THE GAME.
Before we were able to even see the people we were playing with, the first thing to concern ourselves with is THE GAME.
When it becomes more than THE GAME, and more about personal bullshit from all these people who just like to be critics, because they are literally good at nothing else then bickering and argueing over the internet, then that is why this situation arises in the first place.
Scarlett I think just wants to ENJOY THE GAME, but she can't because of all these jealous, envious, ignorant and arrogant losers who all feel the need to state there opinion on her sexuality, like wow........
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On November 26 2013 08:32 SixStrings wrote:
I don't think the problem lies with Koreans destroying foreigners, it's more about faceless KESPA-robots destroying everyone else.
They're just "faceless Kespa robots" because you werent a proleague fan. The only reason im still here watching starcraft 2 today is because of these kespa players that I loved and watched for a decade.
Really tired of these comments. Y'all should learn to enjoy the beauty of their play, instead of being drama whore.
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On November 26 2013 08:37 sM.Zik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 08:32 SixStrings wrote:
I don't think the problem lies with Koreans destroying foreigners, it's more about faceless KESPA-robots destroying everyone else. They're just "faceless Kespa robots" because you werent a proleague fan. The only reason im still here watching starcraft 2 today is because of these kespa players that I loved and watched for a decade. Really tired of these comments.
Yes, you proleague fans must get a real kick out of the current state of Starcraft. Both of you.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
People like Proleague, don't be a sarcastic dick because you don't.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
All these horrible arguments going on in SC2 General just make me wanna post less and less sheesh
She did well at Red Bull I hope she keeps at it, even part time
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On November 26 2013 08:32 SixStrings wrote:
I don't think the problem lies with Koreans destroying foreigners, it's more about faceless KESPA-robots destroying everyone else.
It was easy to root for MC, or MVP, or MKP, or Nestea and still is for Jaedong, but who the fuck is supposed to keep up with 60+ interchangeable robots who are within .5% skill of each other? I know, Artosis probably has a fun anecdote or interesting fact about each and every one of them, but the average SC2-viewer who watches a couple of hours of a tournament every other week can't distinguish one KESPArian from another.
When MC and Scarlett met in this tournament, I didn't know for whom to root, because they're both characters who grew on me for the past two years, but I hadn't even heard of soS or sOo or however the guy is called before he won WCS, so I didn't care if he won the tournament or got hit by a bus.
That's really subtle.
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EPT
