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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 26 2013 01:45 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 01:20 fried_rice wrote:On October 26 2013 00:47 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 25 2013 23:50 dukem wrote:
Having a poll here is totally useless, as terran is the minority race by far (do I even need a source to back up this statement?), where most players you'll see, especially on ladder plays Zerg.
Zerg mad, zerg vote approve. Terran is played by at least more players than zerg is actually. Not to mention that this map has 3 free bases. Wat? In what league? I'm in Masters and for this whole season it seems like I'm playing Zerg 6 out of 10 games. EDIT: Which is fine by me as I have a pretty good TvZ winrate. Now I come where TvZ is by far my worst matchup  Technically lolfail9001 is correct, Terran is played as much as Zerg. However what was probably *cough* a small oversight on his part he forgot to mention that is only because bronze has way more terrans. In silver it is just a bit more zerg, and after that alot more zerg in every league. Considering I think it is save to say that those visiting TL will generally be higher ranked than random players, there is a good chance there are here more zerg than terran players. Just checked for me personally, 56% more games vs zerg than vs terran, 34% more vs toss than vs terran @ high diamond.
I do not have absolutely correct statistics on amount of terrans in low leagues, so i have no clue.
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On October 26 2013 00:45 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +In BW, one reaver took up 4 supply and dealt 100 damage
In SC2, 3 Colossus take up 18 supple and deal 90 damage
I'm pretty sure if Colossi cost less supply while doing way more damage, all that would happen would be people would just build Colossi + antiair. It wouldn't be lots of single Colossi spread out across the map, it would just be like 20 Colossi in a big clump a-moving across the map oneshotting everything that exists on the ground.
And yet no one made 18 supplies worth of reavers... go figure?
Well, I actually tried to make mass reavers in moneymaps while typing in all caps DEATH BY BANANA SLUG!!!!!!!!
But that's not the same thing.
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On October 26 2013 02:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 00:45 awesomoecalypse wrote:In BW, one reaver took up 4 supply and dealt 100 damage
In SC2, 3 Colossus take up 18 supple and deal 90 damage
I'm pretty sure if Colossi cost less supply while doing way more damage, all that would happen would be people would just build Colossi + antiair. It wouldn't be lots of single Colossi spread out across the map, it would just be like 20 Colossi in a big clump a-moving across the map oneshotting everything that exists on the ground. And yet no one made 18 supplies worth of reavers... go figure? Well, I actually tried to make mass reavers in moneymaps while typing in all caps DEATH BY BANANA SLUG!!!!!!!! But that's not the same thing.
Reavers took a lot of skillful micro, and microing more than a single one took a lot of effort to the point where it was not even worth it most of the time. Colossus on the other hand...you could literally teach monkeys or other smart mammals to a-move them through the map.
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On October 26 2013 04:44 fried_rice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 02:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 26 2013 00:45 awesomoecalypse wrote:In BW, one reaver took up 4 supply and dealt 100 damage
In SC2, 3 Colossus take up 18 supple and deal 90 damage
I'm pretty sure if Colossi cost less supply while doing way more damage, all that would happen would be people would just build Colossi + antiair. It wouldn't be lots of single Colossi spread out across the map, it would just be like 20 Colossi in a big clump a-moving across the map oneshotting everything that exists on the ground. And yet no one made 18 supplies worth of reavers... go figure? Well, I actually tried to make mass reavers in moneymaps while typing in all caps DEATH BY BANANA SLUG!!!!!!!! But that's not the same thing. Reavers took a lot of skillful micro, and microing more than a single one took a lot of effort to the point where it was not even worth it most of the time. Colossus on the other hand...you could literally teach monkeys or other smart mammals to a-move them through the map.
You don't *have* to micro reavers. Once you get to about 12 or so of them you can just psuedo clump and a-move them to victory as the cooldowns of at least one of them will always be up at that point. And at such long range only air units bug em. I've played the mass unit wars in moneymaps; so long as they don't go siegetank/air you win most of the time assuming they don't bother you for 20 minutes.
The difference between the two is that you could shrink down reaver numbers to just 1 unit, and with enough control you can get more than your money's worth with it. Trying to do shuttle play with a colossus produces less than simpply warping in 3-6 zealots. The opposite is not true when it comes to reavers since 1 reaver in a shuttle does a lot more than 4 zealots in a shuttle.
So while you *have* to turtle with colossus until you get 20ish supply worth of them, you can start being aggressive with just the first Reaver.
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On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:You don't *have* to micro reavers. Once you get to about 12 or so of them you can just psuedo clump and a-move them to victory as the cooldowns of at least one of them will always be up at that point.
Wait...what?
On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:
I've played the mass unit wars in moneymaps; so long as they don't go siegetank/air you win most of the time assuming they don't bother you for 20 minutes.
Rofl! Yeah whatever, I'll just disregard your post after this statement.
User was warned for this post
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On October 26 2013 05:24 fried_rice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:You don't *have* to micro reavers. Once you get to about 12 or so of them you can just psuedo clump and a-move them to victory as the cooldowns of at least one of them will always be up at that point. Wait...what? Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:
I've played the mass unit wars in moneymaps; so long as they don't go siegetank/air you win most of the time assuming they don't bother you for 20 minutes. Rofl! Yeah whatever, I'll just disregard your post after this statement.
You tried to make make the argument about reavers requiring high micro. The truth is that once it reaches a critical mass it's ridiculously hard to stop.
Sure the mass of slugs can't run back to your base to save it from a drop, is so slow people can simply expand wherever your army isn't at, etc...
But plain old critical mass fights? Most ground compositions die to the mass aoe without firing a shot.
Now if you want to talk about effective use of resources, there are plenty of better options. You need zealots/goons for mobility, storms for low supply aoe, shuttles for harassment, observers for spotting, etc...
Simply spamming reavers will only win you the ground fight at the cost of all your bases because everything is faster and cheaper than you. In order for reavers to keep up with an army you need shuttles and since you need an army to not die from doom drops and backstabs you are tactically forced to only have a few reavers at most.
But getting 20 supply of reavers to win a head on fight? Keep them in the back and a-move. The only advantage 18 supply of colossus have over 20 supply of reavers is that colossus can retreat but reavers can't.
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So from watching the SC2 Panel:
New balance patch will come next week(mine/tank change etc).
They are also looking into Swarm Hosts right now but they have no conclusion. David said they are looking into whether passive style or more aggresssive style is better. What kind of changes could come he did not say.
They are also pretty happy with the win rates within the leagues in general and they focus on balaning for pro level matches. Future goals are to open more windows of opportunity for players (David's example was TvP where P starts being aggressive with Stalkers, then gets pushed by back Marauders, pushing forward again with Colossi and terran using a window where he drops into the main of the P...)
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Thanks, please keep on posting this stuff.
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On November 09 2013 06:54 saddaromma wrote:
Thanks, please keep on posting this stuff.
As far as balance goes thats pretty much it, sadly. I missed the first part of the panel but it was mainly about Arcade anyway(which will be completely free in the future btw). Right now it's about WCS 2014.
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On November 09 2013 06:56 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 06:54 saddaromma wrote:
Thanks, please keep on posting this stuff. As far as balance goes thats pretty much it, sadly. I missed the first part of the panel but it was mainly about Arcade anyway(which will be completely free in the future btw). Right now it's about WCS 2014.
There was some stuff about clan decals. They have a nifty pic of a Teamliquid decal on the official SC2 twitter.
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If you see JD playing ZvT there is no need to nerf the widow mine.
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On November 10 2013 08:16 TurboMaN wrote:
If you see JD playing ZvT there is no need to nerf the widow mine.
I think there is, because if you dont it'll be bio mine and nothing else forever.
Either that or they need to buff mech more and make it so it's strategically worth mixing up your play.
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What's funny is that you also need mines to defend allins, so terrans won't win much in the weeks coming. I'm going back to my good old 888 because at least i'll have a chance in the early early.
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On October 26 2013 05:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 05:24 fried_rice wrote:On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:You don't *have* to micro reavers. Once you get to about 12 or so of them you can just psuedo clump and a-move them to victory as the cooldowns of at least one of them will always be up at that point. Wait...what? On October 26 2013 05:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:
I've played the mass unit wars in moneymaps; so long as they don't go siegetank/air you win most of the time assuming they don't bother you for 20 minutes. Rofl! Yeah whatever, I'll just disregard your post after this statement. You tried to make make the argument about reavers requiring high micro. The truth is that once it reaches a critical mass it's ridiculously hard to stop. Sure the mass of slugs can't run back to your base to save it from a drop, is so slow people can simply expand wherever your army isn't at, etc... But plain old critical mass fights? Most ground compositions die to the mass aoe without firing a shot. Now if you want to talk about effective use of resources, there are plenty of better options. You need zealots/goons for mobility, storms for low supply aoe, shuttles for harassment, observers for spotting, etc... Simply spamming reavers will only win you the ground fight at the cost of all your bases because everything is faster and cheaper than you. In order for reavers to keep up with an army you need shuttles and since you need an army to not die from doom drops and backstabs you are tactically forced to only have a few reavers at most. But getting 20 supply of reavers to win a head on fight? Keep them in the back and a-move. The only advantage 18 supply of colossus have over 20 supply of reavers is that colossus can retreat but reavers can't.
What? No.
Huge difference between colossous and reaver.
8colossous amove against ground units such as hydralisks, the colossous win and not much the hydras can do
8reavers amove against hydralisks, the hydras can win with micro. They shoot once every 3.78~seconds.
Protoss doesnt work the same was in bw as in sc2 at all. Its a huge difference.
Point is, reavers on their own is really shit. They cant reach a critical amount the same was colossous do.
But getting 20 supply of reavers to win a head on fight? Keep them in the back and a-move. The only advantage 18 supply of colossus have over 20 supply of reavers is that colossus can retreat but reavers can't
.....No...very wrong.....
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On November 10 2013 08:18 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 08:16 TurboMaN wrote:
If you see JD playing ZvT there is no need to nerf the widow mine. I think there is, because if you dont it'll be bio mine and nothing else forever.
Nerfing mine doesn't make much sense unless terran has been beating zerg too much recently. And i don't think that's the case nowadays. Zerg have adapted quite well to widow mines. If you want to see more compositions then you need to make those other units better, particularly in a matchup like tvz where the Zergs composition often tends to be in response to what the Terran is doing.
Hopefully the tank buff is interesting and does more then just turn tvt into mechfest.
I am confused the oracle buff is going through since protoss seem entirely content to make that unit as it is now and it's not like they needed a buff in the pre medivac stage of tvp.
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On November 10 2013 08:18 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 08:16 TurboMaN wrote:
If you see JD playing ZvT there is no need to nerf the widow mine. I think there is, because if you dont it'll be bio mine and nothing else forever. Either that or they need to buff mech more and make it so it's strategically worth mixing up your play.
Imo mech will never be viable in a matchup other than TvT. DK and his balance team have been testing around for 3 years now! You just have to read it again, it's been three years since 2010 (release of the game).
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wtf is this....pls david kim leave the sc2 team
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Just found these statistics on Blizzards page lol
![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/L6V7GSLZGZBB1383803047887.jpg)
Where did they get them from?
I don't think those numbers are representative for the current state of the game.
Source:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11523759
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On November 10 2013 08:50 TurboMaN wrote:Just found these statistics on Blizzards page lol Where did they get them from? I don't think those numbers are representative for the current state of the game. Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11523759
Probably top1000 (GM players) in ladder. Aligulac had something very similar the past month or so.
http://aligulac.com/reports/
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On November 10 2013 08:53 Faust852 wrote:Probably top1000 (GM players) in ladder. Aligulac had something very similar the past month or so. http://aligulac.com/reports/
Flawed statistic because its a lower percentile of terran players that gets matched up against a higher percentile of zerg/protoss players. Thus the terran players that faces the protoss/zergs are superioer relatively.
Source: Sc2ranks.com
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EPT
