A tribute to Lee Jung Hoon "Marine King"'s impact on the Starcraft 2 scene.
Today when I arrived home from school I instantly saw the "Marine King switching to lol" threads on both /r/starcraft and here on TL.net. And every time I see a pro going away from Starcraft II my hearth sinks a bit. I admire and love the professional SC2 scene so much that it truly saddens me every time people leave it. I remember seeing Jinro, Sea, Bisu, JangBi, Stephano and everyone else imaginable retire, and I never blame them, and as selfish as it is, I really wish they would stay. Today however, I did not get quite that feeling when I saw the posts about MKP. Which is strange, because everyone of my friends know the deep burning passion I have for Marine King, he is most likely the reason I still watch professional SC2. I guess it's always been looming over me, the fact that MKP never will win that GSL trophy, and the fact that he never will return to dominate the top tier again have been so obvious that I guess I got used to the fact that he would leave soon.
However, Marine King deserves a greater goodbye, everyone who have been around for a while should know about Marine King, he is a big name to Starcraft 2, and always will be, but why is that? It's easy to remember MKP, but hard to remember why we should remember him, and as a person who have religiously followed him since his early days I think I'm allowed to give you the reasons why Marine King had such influence on SC2.
Since the second season of GSL in 2010 all the way to MLG in 2012 Lee Jung Hoon have been a important figure to the professional scene of Starcraft 2, he was one of the first players to truly understand the strength's and weaknesses of the Terran race, and how to exploit them to maximum potential. Many of you may know of his journey from Boxer, to Foxer to Marine King.Prime aka MKP and during that journey we can find what the big influential moments are, and why they have such importance.
So Let's start from the beginning, the year is 2010, and in e-sports years that's like ancient Greek mythology, and the man we know today as MKP, was known as
Boxer
Lee Jung Hoon always had a talent for bringing fame to himself, he is by far one of the most colorful personas you can find in Korean SC2, and he provides that color by intense emotions before but most importantly after a game, and with his exotic play style you really could tell what type of person he was, without ever hearing him speak. And choosing the ingame ID "Boxer" during this time, was nothing other than a ballsy move, he got criticized tremendously for it by some, and loved by others. The funny thing is, during the 2010 Sony Ericsson StarCraft II Open Season II, Marine King's big breakout tournament, Lim Yo Hwan "SlayerSBoxeR" the man, the myth, the legend himself played. If not Lim Jae Duk or by the school of Artosis, also known as "The Creator of the Universe" NesTea had slaughtered Slayer's Boxer, we would have seen a Boxer vs Boxer final. Even tough that did not happen, it was during this GSL where it all began for MKP.
Part I: Where It All Began
First off, MKP was 16 at the time of this GSL. A talented kid going deep in a tournament will always be healthy for anyone's career. But it was here he planted the seed of what would later grow and become his famous ID, where he showed us, that the most broken unit in the game could be even more broken in the hands of a king.
And in the quarterfinals he played a BO3 against the Zerg player Han Joon "Kyrix" and for a long period of time this BO3 was regarded as one of the greatest series of all time. And to some it still is.
If you wish to see the other games go over to GOMTV.net and buy a ticket for that season.
That aside this was the first time we had seen unit control on such a level in SC2. All of you who managed to survive the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs and still remember Brood War, you will also know what unit control looked like back then. An army could go from one level of efficiency to almost 3-4 times as efficient if used correctly. Marine splitting is the closest we've gotten to that difference in efficiency and micro skill ceiling in SC2 to date. Marine King perfected and used it before anyone else. Just like Jaedong basically won tournaments with his mutalisk control MKP almost won tournaments with his bio/medivac control. First off, it was really cool as a observer to watch. When watching pro SC2 as an amateur, when you see someone control an army like that, you instantly see and understand why they are a professional and you are not. Secondly, marine splitting and bio control are the stepping stones of what TvZ is today. Even tough we have luxuries such as widow mine's and hellbats, you can't play bio TvZ without dodging banelings.
The way he split and kited was unlike anything before him and truly defined how Terran were meant to optimally engage the Zerg army. His unit control always were a trademark of his play.
With this he laid the foundation of how TvZ is played, while giving great pleasure to the spectators.
Part II: The King Rises.
Let's fast forward to the year 2012, our hero is no longer "Boxer" or "Fake Boxer" or "Foxer", he is established and known as.
Marine King
And by being one of the most consistent Code-S players, while still remaining cheerful, fashionable and exciting to watch, he brought on a great fan base. All this combined made him one of the most popular SC2 players there was, even tough everyone knew he was really good at the game, he had never gotten a first place finish and was established as the first "Kong" in SC2. However the year 2012, later became the best year in his career. MarineKing showcased his greatest strength, he was never afraid to prove to everyone how big the skill cap would be between the players that mastered army movement/control, and the one who did not. He showed us all once again how volatile the Terran bio army could be, going tank-less TvZ and TvT to great success, and prioritizing Medivacs over Vikings in TvP to deal with colossus. It was mind-blowing and fantastic to watch him do so.
And finally the moment we all had been waiting for Lee Jung Hoon got his first Major win in a tournament, and not only did he win the MLG 2012 winter arena, he also won the MLG winter championship where we got to experience a fantastic rivalry between him and DRG. And during that period of time it looked very similar to what Flash and Jaedong had during BW.
Men faint, Women faint, MKP cries and the fans love it, a beautiful story arc of the prodigy child with the burning desire to win that one big trophy, and when he finally breaks out and manages to do so, he does it in a fantastic display of skill against a fantastic rivalry between two beasts of players, and he does so twice. There is no doubt, that beyond MarineKing's fun play style, he brought even greater excitement to watching StarCraft, with his lovable persona and beautiful story line. Without a doubt, this was his best year. And here he solved some of the problems SC2 were suffering from. It is always fun to root for the personality, the one who will collapse and cry when wining a championship, and when MKP won, the fans were always rewarded with ceremonies and emotions, something that no other Korean did on such a high level, other than MC and Genius, but even them could not do it as well as MKP.
There is not much more to say here, but during 2012 MKP took his fantastic persona, and lovable play style and brought it to the foreign fans outside of Korea and showed us all how exciting it can be to root for a player.
Oh and let's not forget his bad ass keyboard. everything added up to a lovable character.
Part III: His Greatest Strength Became His Greatest Enemy.
So what were the things we loved with MKP? It was his personality, driven by intense emotions and his revolutionary and stylistic play style. Honestly guys, if there ever is someone who's "play style" is clearly distinguishable, it is Marine King's. But time's change, SC2 developed, and it developed fast. By every season of GSL new discoveries were made and the limit were pushed even further. And MKP's persona and play style lived in harmony with each other, MKP were stubborn, his play were stubborn, and he never gave up. Factors that in the earlier days gave us games like this. But he was easy to play against, he either went 3CC with no scout, or 2 rax. And such play is extremely easy to adjust to and play against once you know about it.
But I loved his stubbornness, I knew if there was anyone who could get away with it, it was him, he stuck with it, and never surrendered. And to be fair he managed to stay in Code-S all the way to 2013. But by the time HoTS got released MKP had made very little to no adjustments in his play style, and while fans believed HoTS would make him the deadliest Terran on the planet, he never got back to the shape he once were in. And the emotions we loved, turned around and punished him. Every time he got knocked out of GSL he took it harder and harder
It was painful to watch him sit in a game with 40/200 supply against a 200/200 Zerg and not leave. It was painful to see his frustration every time he missed his chance to get that GSL trophy he wanted so badly. And I don't know him personally, but I can almost guarantee that being such a emotional person, and having that deep desire and then falling from absolute dominance, to someone who's not even a threat anymore, will tear you down. And without a doubt one of many reasons why he quit SC2.
And as much as I would have loved to see him actually take home that GSL victory, he never did, and now we know for sure that he won't. I can always hope that Marine King will bring the same pleasures to LoL as he did to SC2, even tough nobody before him managed to succeed, I will wish him the best and truly hope he made the right choice for himself.
Today Starcraft got a little bit less fashionable as we witness MKP leave. But remember this Lee Jung Hoon, you always had, and always will have, a very special place in my heart.
I will leave you all with this, it's a really old YouTube video I used to watch when I still believed MKP would win that GSL.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
On October 12 2013 00:45 Arnstein wrote: Well written!
Personally, I was never a fan, but it's always sad to see people switch over to LoL
Why? If MKP can find new success in League of Legends we should be happy for him.
I agree with OP, being so emotional, falling so hard probably hit him hard (like Bisu). Without being in a team league anymore either probably made it worse. Good Luck, have fun MK. Do us proud in whatever you do next.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
I will refer back to this post whenever somebody asks me why I dislike MKP
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
I will refer back to this post whenever somebody asks me why I dislike MKP
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
I will refer back to this post whenever somebody asks me why I dislike MKP
I wasn't following Code S back in the day but never liked MKP (Always been an MMA fan). Was he really that way before?
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
Yeah I know. He always were an abusive player back in the days, and relied on gimmicks and tricks. Luckily for him his personality managed to carry him over ridicule from the community.
But then again there is no shame in playing to win, and he knew how to win.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
I mean sure, but it's kinda like saying Bisu vs Savior didn't revolutionize BW PvZ. Maybe not to the same extent, but you could make the same argument that people would have figured out what Bisu did even without him. But he was the one to do it, so he deserves credit, as does MarineKing.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
I mean sure, but it's kinda like saying Bisu vs Savior didn't revolutionize BW PvZ. Maybe not to the same extent, but you could make the same argument that people would have figured out what Bisu did even without him. But he was the one to do it, so he deserves credit, as does MarineKing.
The thing is. Bisu came up with that shit, which was a strat that completely revolutionized the way everybody thought about a MU, the when the game was years old and even progaming has been going on for years. Whereas MKP was just the guy who showed a technique that's so basic (from a tactical standpoint... don't get me wrong it's hard to execute, but it requires NO understanding of the matchup whatsoever), that I wonder to this day, how nobody had come up with it to that point.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
I mean sure, but it's kinda like saying Bisu vs Savior didn't revolutionize BW PvZ. Maybe not to the same extent, but you could make the same argument that people would have figured out what Bisu did even without him. But he was the one to do it, so he deserves credit, as does MarineKing.
The thing is. Bisu came up with that shit, which was a strat that completely revolutionized the way everybody thought about a MU, the when the game was years old and even progaming has been going on for years. Whereas MKP was just the guy who showed a technique that's so basic (from a tactical standpoint... don't get me wrong it's hard to execute, but it requires NO understanding of the matchup whatsoever), that I wonder to this day, how nobody had come up with it to that point.
It wasn't just the micro technique, it was the implementation of the micro technique that created an entirely new style of TvZ play that was far more centered on marine aggression, which lasted basically throughout most of WoL.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
If one goes back in time and tries to figure out what actually happened, chances are that it was MVP not MKP which "inventented" marine splitting. In the previous round before MKP faced Fruitdealer/Kyrix, his TvZ style was really weird (like he did some kind of nuke drop on LT) and showed little sign that he had any idea what he was doing (yet still won though).
However, then MVP played Zenio in a bo3, and MVP showed the efficiency of presplitting bio units vs banelings on Jungle Basin, and in the next round we saw MKP split marines as well vs Kyrix.
So my theory is that we actually have to credit MVP more than MKP with revoulutionzing the matchup.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
I honestly think MKP vs Kyrix revolutionized TvZ for the rest of WoL. It might have been figured out but the impact he made with just one series just gave Terran a completely different mentality for TvZ.
I honestly think people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overstating the impact one broadcasted series has on the state of the game. The meta game evolves on the ladder and in teamhouses. Not in a broadcasted game. It's not like MKP game up with that idea right in the game. He probably saw someone on the ladder doing it, or maybe he even came up with it himself, but it's pretty obvious that this would have become standard technique in 2 weeks even without an iconic game.
I mean sure, but it's kinda like saying Bisu vs Savior didn't revolutionize BW PvZ. Maybe not to the same extent, but you could make the same argument that people would have figured out what Bisu did even without him. But he was the one to do it, so he deserves credit, as does MarineKing.
The thing is. Bisu came up with that shit, which was a strat that completely revolutionized the way everybody thought about a MU, the when the game was years old and even progaming has been going on for years. Whereas MKP was just the guy who showed a technique that's so basic (from a tactical standpoint... don't get me wrong it's hard to execute, but it requires NO understanding of the matchup whatsoever), that I wonder to this day, how nobody had come up with it to that point.
It wasn't just the micro technique, it was the implementation of the micro technique that created an entirely new style of TvZ play that was far more centered on marine aggression, which lasted basically throughout most of WoL.
No need to argue about this... I disagree that it was much more than a well done micro trick. I'm not going to hate on him any further...
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
This is honestly the first time I feel heartache for a pro to retire. I am not a super big fan of mkp, but I always know that I can expect some greedy builds and awesome games from him. I would tune in just to watch his games even if I am not supporting him.
His pure bio tvz against Stephano is one of my favourite game to watch and I am still using that build for my tvz.
Losing him gives me a complicated feeling. Watching sc2 suddenly doesn't feel quite the same anymore knowing that you just won't catch any more games of his.
Thing is, having him in the scene gave me hope that one day I can catch some of his games again, maybe streaming or some friendly games.
Now it's just all gone.
Luckily I also watch a little league and so at least I can ask around how he is doing over there. If he can find success and have more fun in league, I would be really happy. #thingsthatmkpdoes would one day be trending on Twitter!
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
No, he is right. MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table. He just did everything better than most Terrans back then, which is sadly, a lot of allins.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
Yeah. Because to say you don't like Player X for his playstyle instantly makes me not only poison to the community but also a terrible human being. I was not hateful at all, I applauded the OP for his well written write up and wished MKP best of luck for his future.
This is a thread dedicated to MKPs tremendous impact on the scene. I don't think he had that much of an impact aside from the fact that a strong part of the western community liked him better than other koreans. That's why I think it's more than okay to voice this opinion in such a thread. But of course you're entitled to your opinion and may wish cancer upon me or something, if you have to.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
No, he is right. MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table. He just did everything better than most Terrans back then, which is sadly, a lot of allins.
MKP did plenty in his career and if you can't see that then you didn't follow starcraft well at all, or biased.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
Yeah. Because to say you don't like Player X for his playstyle instantly makes me not only poison to the community but also a terrible human being. I was not hateful at all, I applauded the OP for his well written write up and wished MKP best of luck for his future.
This is a thread dedicated to MKPs tremendous impact on the scene. I don't think he had that much of an impact aside from the fact that a strong part of the western community liked him better than other koreans. That's why I think it's more than okay to voice this opinion in such a thread. But of course you're entitled to your opinion and may wish cancer upon me or something, if you have to.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
No, he is right. MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table. He just did everything better than most Terrans back then, which is sadly, a lot of allins.
MKP did plenty in his career and if you can't see that then you didn't follow starcraft well at all, or biased.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
Yeah. Because to say you don't like Player X for his playstyle instantly makes me not only poison to the community but also a terrible human being. I was not hateful at all, I applauded the OP for his well written write up and wished MKP best of luck for his future.
This is a thread dedicated to MKPs tremendous impact on the scene. I don't think he had that much of an impact aside from the fact that a strong part of the western community liked him better than other koreans. That's why I think it's more than okay to voice this opinion in such a thread. But of course you're entitled to your opinion and may wish cancer upon me or something, if you have to.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
GSL wins aren't really any more relevant than any other major titles, all things considered. There are some pretty flaky GSL winners. The guy was a notable champion any way you slice it.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
No, he is right. MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table. He just did everything better than most Terrans back then, which is sadly, a lot of allins.
MKP did plenty in his career and if you can't see that then you didn't follow starcraft well at all, or biased.
"MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table"
Hes not referring to his career just what or how he changed sc2, what he won isn't relevant to the argument.
On October 12 2013 01:59 lolmlg wrote: GSL wins aren't really any more relevant than any other major titles, all things considered. There are some pretty flaky GSL winners. The guy was a notable champion any way you slice it.
I feel the same way. Especially when the rivalry between MKP and Parting, and then MKP and DRG were going on... MKP was amazing during that time period. The championships that he won from other tournaments, while not individual GSL championships, should still count as great victories. While we remember him as the Kong, it's only in a joking and love-able kind of way.
He was one of the best and most consistent players in WoL, and for me he was hands-down the most iconic player of SC2 as a whole.
Judging from all the comments this is going to break my heart and make me sob like a little girl.. Probably safe to wait reading this after the IEM Finals when my body is full of Hype
On October 12 2013 01:59 lolmlg wrote: GSL wins aren't really any more relevant than any other major titles, all things considered. There are some pretty flaky GSL winners. The guy was a notable champion any way you slice it.
I don't think that is true at all. Maybe it was true in the very early days of SC2 when the entire scene was more volatile then a volcano in the ring of fire, and back when the GSL format had a 75% retention rate, not the 25% of today. But more and more as time went by the GSL became more and more recognized, and rightly so as the highest skill level tournament in the entire world.
And this was in large part due to its format, the best of its kind till then. A brutal, unforgiving massive offline qualifier BO3 single eliminator that weeded out the weaker players. Your reward for that, was being thrown into another merciless gauntlet that was Code A, where you fought not only to get into Code S but a lot of times just to stay in Code A. And finally you where reward by being put tournament with emphasis put on careful and meticulous planning, against players that where if not your equals, clearly better then you.
Today WCS EU and NA basically copy the GSL, so it has lost a lot of what made it unique, but it still retains the absolute highest level of play in the world, maybe outside of the seasonal finals.
A GSL win in those times was a big deal, and was a lot more relevant then other tournaments. Winning a GSL gave much, much more recognition then other tournaments, especially once we figured out that GSL champions where just as adept as at playing the weekend format and would often times come and crush face and enhance their wealth further.
Edit: And since I went so off topic I'd to now amend that by, thanking the OP for taking the time to make a tribute thread for one of the most iconic and unique SC2 players we've had over the years.
My heart hurts with grief now at the thought we will never see a MKP comeback, a return to his former glory, the same way Mvp, MMA and Polt have done in recent times.
Good night sweet king, and good luck, may you never be forgotten and may you never forget us, and hopefully, just come back one day.
My all time favorite highlight. MKP + amazing crowd + Khaldor/wolf = perfect
I honestly think most master league terans will split the same way vs slowbanes. Thats not particularly difficult actually.
These comments really frustrate me, they remind me of TBBT's Sheldon quote "Gravity would have been apparent to me without the apple".
It's very easy to see something after it has been shown to you, but at that time, sure people split slightly, but nobody was splitting to the extend he did, which blew up the meta game, where both sides had to adjust to blings not being a hard counter to marines anymore.
Sad to see the ammount of people coming here to talk shit about MKP... "that was master level splitting" "that brought nothing new to the table" "MKP sux derp derp" I´m guessing all of you real pros did more than he ever did, eh? This is a sad moment to SC2. MKP leaving makes this game even bleaker than it already was.. Fare thee well, King. Gonna have to figure out how to follow you in lol
Good piece but saying his play was revolutionary is so off the hook. MKP is a player who mostly relies on his wilderness & instinct instead of tactics and plans.
Thats why he had gone so far in many early GSL because the game hasnt developed much, MKP at that time could overwhelm most people with sharper micro or much more aggressiveness. Hell, that marine split, even watching on a stutter GOM Player stream, was the most spectacular starcraft2 back then, but it's by no means "revolutionary" by definition.
However, that trait didnt allow him to reach any trophy either because theres still players like Nestea (who simply figured out the game faster than anyone else) or MVP - the very antithesis of MKP who is a strategical mastermind with nerves of steel. And you can look at how much MVP has won.
Worse yet, players like mvp popped out more & more and yet his stubbornness hasnt changed. That results in him consistently not being able to get past groupstage for like 1.5 years iirc and eventually fading to black, albeit a few weekend foreign successes which fit his style.
MKP was an important figure in sc2 but it's only fitting that hes never been able to win a GSL.
Thank you for this beautiful thread, I was not particular a fan of MKP, but i watched a lot of his games and really liked it. Dedication as a fan to make a thread like this should only be rewarded with positive feedback. It's just a contribution to the community in general. Even if you don't agree with it, this thread is mainly an appreciation as a fan.
Remember you from the beginning. Boxer, Foxer, MKP. You were one of the reasons I played terrans, you were one of the reasons I fell in love with the game.
Tis a consumation devoutly to be wished, to die to sleep.
On October 12 2013 01:32 robson1 wrote: No you guys. MKP has no claim on being the Terran Bisu of WoL I'm sorry.
Why are you in this thread at all? You only came in here to hate on MKP. Please be kind and stay out of threads that involves people you don't enjoy watching and let the people that actually do like the person have a nice hate-free thread.
Why are the SC2 community such an awful place? Because of people like you.
No, he is right. MarineKing didnt innovate anything or bring something new to the table. He just did everything better than most Terrans back then, which is sadly, a lot of allins.
I think some people forgot why we said MKP defined TvZ back then. MKP was a beast back then, he had 3,4 accounts on top of the Korean ladder, using only MMM. He pushed MMM usage to the limit vs Zerg. Yes, people know how to pre-split bio before, but there're big chances that they learned from MKP on the ladder, and MKP showed on officially televisioned matches how to marine-split reactively but efficiently.
Saying MKP did nothing to define the TvZ matchup we have today is as absurd as it can be. If there were no MKP, we would have stuck with Rainbow vs FruitDealer TvZ style for awhile.
You either retire an SC2 legend or you live long enough to be a LoL player i guess. But seriously watching those games from the olden days.. i feel like even I could have won the GSL O_O. 18 minutes no BL infestor =D
As an MKP fanboy, I want to post a couple of interesting links and facts.
MKP ended up in 10th place on the overall earnings list, with $189,140 USD made in his career. He was 4th place among Terrans, behind Mvp Polt and MMA but ahead of players like Taeja, Bomber, and everyone else.
Also, another stat just for fun: a quick search in www.gomtv.net's video archive reveals that MKP had 114 video appearances under the name "MarineKing", excluding the appearances that he made prior to that as "BoxeR".
Needless to say, both the success that MKP had as a professional SC2 player and the amount of GSL and GSTL appearances, as well as foreign exposure, made him one of the most successful and consistent players of SC2 from 2010-2013.
kinda never expected him to retire. hes been weak so long now and still stayed around. and prime was always my favourite esf team. this makes me so sad
Great post. Good bye Marine King. Too bad Blizzard strip all those fancy micro intensive openers from Terran race so you cant shine no more. GL in LOL.
well writen, today SC2 lost a fantastic player and person. i'm just sad cause i spend so greats moments watching this boy playing with marines. The king is dead, long live king.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
As someone who has watched since GSL open season 2, absolutely agree.
Can't believe people are happy he's SWITCHING TO LOL rather than just retiring and, you know, maybe going back to school or founding a business or doing something productive. I 100% guaruntee he won't make it in LoL if he is seriously trying to go ham, and retiring with a team gives closure. Like it or not MKP was a multiple championship winner, I just don't think this is the right move by him.
I can understand the people who hate MKP for cheesing out players, but if you played Terran back then you in turn absolutely hated it when Zergs baneling busted you, or Toss proxy gated you.
I remember getting so frustrated on ladder in early WoL that Zerg could pretty much take a freewin from me by just a-moving banes into my supply depots (and BM'ing me about it afterwards). Yes of course higher level terrans could already defend it, but seeing MKP do it without even scouting it out, without having tanks in siege mode and layers and layers of wall-off and bunkers that all the experts back then said you absolutely needed was so exciting, and gives you hope that maybe if you train your micro, you could pull it off too. And when he won, you could see right there in his face the rush, the intense emotions you get when you know you snatched victory from the jaws of defeat through pure micro ballsiness.
Very similar thing with base trading - knowing that, if the zerg gets up his BS broodlord/infestor army, or the protoss his deathball, you always have the option of "going for broke" and if your micro/decision making is good enough, you can scrape out the win over their "OP" combination. (Again, toss and brood/infestor were not technically OP because high level terrans could beat it straight up, but for a low level terran it seemed nigh impossible).
For me, Marineking represents the split between the different eras of pre-Kespa SC2, from the beginning when basically no one knew what they were doing, to the era he excelled in, an era of mechanics, where the best macro and micro would win (who else remembers PvP 4 gate wars, where MC would attack against the exact same army composition and win using only godly micro), to the era in which he faded, in which everyone has good mechanics, and you need good strategy and decision-making to shine (like MVP and Life).
On October 12 2013 02:24 Arceus wrote: Good piece but saying his play was revolutionary is so off the hook. MKP is a player who mostly relies on his wilderness & instinct instead of tactics and plans.
Thats why he had gone so far in many early GSL because the game hasnt developed much, MKP at that time could overwhelm most people with sharper micro or much more aggressiveness. Hell, that marine split, even watching on a stutter GOM Player stream, was the most spectacular starcraft2 back then, but it's by no means "revolutionary" by definition.
However, that trait didnt allow him to reach any trophy either because theres still players like Nestea (who simply figured out the game faster than anyone else) or MVP - the very antithesis of MKP who is a strategical mastermind with nerves of steel. And you can look at how much MVP has won.
Worse yet, players like mvp popped out more & more and yet his stubbornness hasnt changed. That results in him consistently not being able to get past groupstage for like 1.5 years iirc and eventually fading to black, albeit a few weekend foreign successes which fit his style.
MKP was an important figure in sc2 but it's only fitting that hes never been able to win a GSL.
Meanwhile Jjakji, Seed, and Sniper won GSL's but can be considered some of the least important figures in SC2. I'd put MKP miles ahead of each of those players even though they won a GSL after the game was "more developed."
The GSL is not the golden standard of skill (just the hardest one to win).
Sad to see MKP go, he was so good for so long. It was always a pleasure to watch his unique style and of course his incredible micro - doing things with marines that we had never seen before. Good luck with LoL, you will be missed! <3
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
As someone who has watched since GSL open season 2, absolutely agree.
To be honest, I really despised MKP whenever he won those bacerace games. He had so many of them that he was much more experienced and was able to beat my favorite NaDa in a crazy bacerace. Now that I look back, we shouldn't hate the player; hate the game! Jinro could have abused 2 rax scv pull all ins, but he chose to be the honorable player. He loses the game but gets brownie points from his fanbase. I'd say it's a fair trade.
There are a handful of games where MKP did not 2rax or baserace, and we were able to see his micro skills in those games.
Better thread than that other one. Really cool, I don't blame him for going to LoL, it has more prize money, and it is bigger than SC 2. MKP vs DRG finals at like 3 MLG events will probably be my best memories of them.
Seeing those games vs Kyrix back in the day was so demoralizing, as a zerg player. it was like, oh now marines are the counter to banelings, wtf?! Definitely one of the most notable and memorable displays of sc2 skill.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
To be fair, Jinro played pretty gimmicky too. Remember Jinro vs IdrA GSL Quarterfinal?
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
As someone who has watched since GSL open season 2, absolutely agree.
To be honest, I really despised MKP whenever he won those bacerace games. He had so many of them that he was much more experienced and was able to beat my favorite NaDa in a crazy bacerace. Now that I look back, we shouldn't hate the player; hate the game! Jinro could have abused 2 rax scv pull all ins, but he chose to be the honorable player. He loses the game but gets brownie points from his fanbase. I'd say it's a fair trade.
There are a handful of games where MKP did not 2rax or baserace, and we were able to see his micro skills in those games.
No honor in losing, you do what is needed to win, aside from cheating. As long as you win you are justified but it also requires you to change according to the changes around you. Sadly maybe he just wasn't able to do it.
Anywho, all the bestest wishes to MKP, though it will be hard, with him being practically a semi amateur (semi- cause he has general expirience in pro-gaming, amateur, cause it's a different game), and the Kor scene being one of the, if not THE most stacked of them all. Wonder if he will keep his handle?
It's fair to say I was never a huge fan of MKP but can't deny his impact on the scene and the fact that despite everything Idra said, he was a great player.
MKP, ill always be a fan and loved watching you play. It was amazing seeing you at MLG Raleigh and letting me get a picture with you. You were the coolest dude and it was awesome speaking to my korean friend and having him translate everything. RIP MKP! <3 <3 <3
heres the one and only fan picture i got with MKP <3 but by far the best. (CoLKiller there to, he was chill as well)
nice write up and i hope he sees the love that we have for him somehow. hopefully he's successful in his endeavors even though i despise LoL I can understand his switch. we'll miss you MKP.
While I don't think that we will see #thingsmkpdoes on Twitter or that he ever was the best or most exciting Terran, he still had so many memorable matches that I can only tip my hat to him, gonna look forward to seeing how far he can make it in LoL.
On October 12 2013 06:28 .SCATesteR wrote: MKP, ill always be a fan and loved watching you play. It was amazing seeing you at MLG Raleigh and letting me get a picture with you. You were the coolest dude and it was awesome speaking to my korean friend and having him translate everything. RIP MKP! <3 <3 <3
Always loved rooting against him. He was a player I loved to hate -- and the scene needs those. Impressive run brotha. Wish you were joining us in Dota 2 instead.
Why is MK the only person in e-sports that people ALWAYS say his clan name when saying his name??? that is one thing i have always wondered over the years??? for example... nobody says TLTLO, they say TLO nobody says EGJYP, they say JYP
never like his over the top emotional facial features post games but thanks for everything you put in the sc2scene good luck in LOL and being the second best player you can be!
On October 12 2013 07:35 xaeravoq wrote: Why is MK the only person in e-sports that people ALWAYS say his clan name when saying his name??? that is one thing i have always wondered over the years??? for example... nobody says TLTLO, they say TLO nobody says EGJYP, they say JYP
WHY WHY WHY??? its so effing stupid
That's not true, well first of, people say Marine King.Prime because it has a good ring to it and we know him for the abbrivation "MKP".
And no, it's very common to say "Liquid'Tajea" or "Liquid'TLO". Matter of fact, I've hear people referring to every single player while mentioning their team name.
EG Jaedong is just as common as Marine King.Prime. And honestly people don't say the "Prime" part exclusivly, I've actually hear Marine King more than I've heard Marine King.Prime.
I know when I refer to Ryung, I say Axiom Ryung very often.
It really comes down to situation/player and it's not stupid at all.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
so... uninformed
How am I uniformed. Explain it to me. I watched every season of GSL, and I'm very sure I saw every one of his important games in GSL ever.
Yeah don't gimme that Kyrix game. It's not like nobody would have figured that out marine splitting.
It's not like I'm saying he was the worst player in the GSL or anything.
So you can do that marine splitting as well?
Thats excactly what he meant
Point being, it's not the innovation that is impressive, it's the execution.
My all time favorite highlight. MKP + amazing crowd + Khaldor/wolf = perfect
I honestly think most master league terans will split the same way vs slowbanes. Thats not particularly difficult actually.
These comments really frustrate me, they remind me of TBBT's Sheldon quote "Gravity would have been apparent to me without the apple".
It's very easy to see something after it has been shown to you, but at that time, sure people split slightly, but nobody was splitting to the extend he did, which blew up the meta game, where both sides had to adjust to blings not being a hard counter to marines anymore.
But why use that game then? Thats kinda a "semi-new" game. Everyone back then had seen marine splitting mulitiple times.
I would actually argue that after Marinekings initially marinesplitting vs Kyrix, that Happys marine-micro (from that video) was the most impressive given the fact that it was in a very early phase of Sc2 (like early 2011 I think).
To be fair, Jinro played pretty gimmicky too. Remember Jinro vs IdrA GSL Quarterfinal?
Your kinda wrong. Today Jinros style would indeed be considered gimmicky, but not back then. He was definitely one of the biggest macroplayers in the early phase of Sc2. The game he won on bunker rush was just a free lunch attempt where he barely invested anything into it. He was going 1 rax tech behind it and didn't pull scvs. Idra just didn't notice the bunker.
You don't even need a ticket for GOM's 2010 tournaments now I think. On that note I'm going to watch his old games while sobbing into a pint of Ben & Jerry's
Im sad, really, even being protoss i aways watch MKP games,i remeber when my friend show me the GSL for the first time back in 2011 MKP vs NaDa,thanks for the fishes MKP, we will miss you.
Beautiful article. MKP's loss will be felt the most of all. I never admitted it, since I have so much nerdlove for Polt, but MKP is also my other Terran hero. I also don't leave until the bitter end in MKP fashion. <3
Good writeup, I feel so sad for MarineKing, I never was his fan, but his story, his clumps, all his fight to reach so many high spots on tournaments, his feelings when winning or losing, he was able to make you feel his sadness or happiness after every match. I wish the best for him on LoL now, but I will never forget he as one of the most iconic players on SC2.
Same here, although I never really fanboy-ed over MKP, I've always been impressed and respected his marine splits and terran micro in general. Article was well-written, I echo the writer's sentiments- my heart sinks whenever any pro retires...
For now I can only wish MKP nothing but the very best in LoL. Let's hope we get to see MKP owning in up in LoL with his sick micro and show them all how you really play the game!
I like MKP, and I think of him as an iconic terran to develop our meta. But I can never seem to get over the MVP > MKP. Maybe it's the 3 letter thing. Maybe it's MKP always taking silver, and MVP taking gold. So I always look at MKP, and I see him shadowed over by MVP. It's sad that MKP is retiring, and I think he's a really great terran. I just got less excited after marine splits became the thing to do and MVP became the king of terran. Gl MKP in LoL, you were top notch!
it's kinda funny that people always mention mvp > mkp when mkp has a pretty good record against the other top terrans of his time. he's 9-3 against polt and 16-7 against mma, and pretty even against taeja and bomber at 10-9 and 7-6 respectively.
I think i need to be put on a suicide watch, or a LoL watch. this i think is the saddest i have been in a long time. fuckkkk. MKP better go become fucking amazing at lol, or not become amazing, and switch back soon. And then when he switches back, he gonna tear shit up
Why are people so negative over such a great player. Thank you for this great write up. MKP deserves a good going away post. He was one of the leaders of terran play. Reddit freaking raised money to send him over to MLG. He was the first player reddit truly supported. This guy deserves our thanks for showing us insane game play throughout the past 3 years.
Mkp was an amazing player, no doubt. To those saying he relied on all ins and tricks to win, try using those same tricks to get yourself to the top of the world. 2 rax was never a good build. Not then, not now. It's a coin flip which puts you massively behind if they just drone scout..
My favourite MKP moments were his series vs OGSNADA. Nada would always play tank/marine, while of course mkp would play pure marines. The bo5 would always end in some epic 40 min base trade. MKP just forced his will on his opponents, playing inferior builds and still... somehow... pulling out the wins.
Forever my favourite player, my passion for starcraft was ignited and died with this guy, he made 2 years special for me and while I can never thank him personally, I am grateful.
MarineKingPrime vs MC GSL World Championship was the first game of Starcraft I ever watched recommended by this article. It's the reason i got into SC2 and esports in general. I had to rewatch it when i heard. I just don't know how i feel about this. Despite playing protoss in SC2 there was always a part of me yearning to play terran just to emulate MKP. I guess I just wanted to thank him for the amount of enjoyment I got from SC2. Without him I wouldn't be here on TL and wouldn't have all the awesome memories and games. GL HF MKP. Missing you already.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
If you were in MarineKing's position, without ever having won a GSL, you would just hand it over to someone just by the pure fact they were a foreigner? Good luck with that.
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
If you were in MarineKing's position, without ever having won a GSL, you would just hand it over to someone just by the pure fact they were a foreigner? Good luck with that.
Lol. Like I suggested that he gave jinro the win in any way, shape or form.
MKP definitely one of the most inspiring and influential SC2 players. Too bad he never won a GSL, but the things he did for the community and PRIME. Man you gotta hand it to him.
Goodbye my baby fox.. i will always remember you.. When I was casting GSL you were playing your 2nd season. You were just a young and shy boy... and you grew up so much... Im so proud of you to see you do so well... and I will support you no matter what game you play
On October 12 2013 20:26 kellymilkies wrote: Goodbye my baby fox.. i will always remember you.. When I was casting GSL you were playing your 2nd season. You were just a young and shy boy... and you grew up so much... Im so proud of you to see you do so well... and I will support you no matter what game you play
my baby fox...
I will always remember you...
this is probably the gayest thing I have ever seen
On October 12 2013 20:26 kellymilkies wrote: Goodbye my baby fox.. i will always remember you.. When I was casting GSL you were playing your 2nd season. You were just a young and shy boy... and you grew up so much... Im so proud of you to see you do so well... and I will support you no matter what game you play
my baby fox...
I will always remember you...
this is probably the gayest thing I have ever seen
It was posted by a girl so it might relativize the "gay" thing a bit
On October 12 2013 20:26 kellymilkies wrote: Goodbye my baby fox.. i will always remember you.. When I was casting GSL you were playing your 2nd season. You were just a young and shy boy... and you grew up so much... Im so proud of you to see you do so well... and I will support you no matter what game you play
my baby fox...
I will always remember you...
this is probably the gayest thing I have ever seen
OP, I think your write up is not bad but I can't help but feel like it can use some improvements. Fix all the unneeded spaces and add a lot more information about MKP. I feel that since you're a fan of MKP and seeing as this is your 'goodnight' to him, you should talk about his achievements more. More details about MLG he's won, his first GSL finals with Nestea, winning against any odds, doing any funny strat and his games against Stephano that one MLG where he won game 3 on Cloud Kingdom after looking down and out etc... Maybe even a quick BR or two highlighting how his play to you was special and amazing to watch. Those are the kind of things that readers want to see and can attach to as well. Other than that, you had good details, just needs more since this is MKP we are talking about
On October 12 2013 22:20 Salient wrote: A link to this CNN story about Marine King should be edited into the OP:
this is exactly what I meant. Quote from it: "When I played 'StarCraft' for the first time, it was like a fantasy. I felt like I discovered a new joy in my life. I was so excited that I could become a controller -- or fight against monsters."
Thank you for the tribute. I was a big fan of MKP until the drama between Startale and Prime last year. I've definitely missed his play this year. I wish him luck in LoL.
Nice one OP. MarineKing was the first korean player I really rooted for. His MLG wins are both to this day one of my top 3 memories from e-sports. Best of luck to him in the future!
On October 12 2013 23:39 Valikyr wrote: Well he couldn't really keep up when the Kespa pros switched over so I guess it's just as well he switches to an easier game.
Where he has to face an even more dominant army of KeSPA pros... sure dude, I can see you know what's up.
I agree with you 100%, It's ok I'm sure MKP will play casually at some point and that is something i can look forward too. He had his run and it was a really good one. No GSL? To me no problem, forever the king of silver and a dominate foreign tournament resume. Unlike Nestea, I fell I can replace what i love about MKP's Play style, And that is in our Prince Maru, And Also + Show Spoiler +
WHOS BACK!! MMA!!!!
But BoxerFoxerEllenPaigeMarineKingPRIME.WELee Jung Hoon's emotion, love and personality will never be replaced to me.
MKP quitting Starcraft didn't really affect me much until I read this thread, excellent write. Even without winning GSL, he was one of the best players of WoL. And his emotional reactions to any significant wins or losses really made you symphasize with him, when I see the video of his reactions to winning MLG I think we should have just let this guy win every tournament, because he just seems to appreciate it the most.
Haters will hate, there are people who hate DRG, people who hate Flash, Bisu, JD. THe more fans you have, the more recognition, and that will bring more haters. To me though, MKP was the reason why I played Terran. He was a great figure in SC2, and I will always remember him. I watch LoL too, and I hope that he gets in OGN Winter
On October 12 2013 23:39 Valikyr wrote: Well he couldn't really keep up when the Kespa pros switched over so I guess it's just as well he switches to an easier game.
the reason he's not doing so well is not that the kespa pros switched over lol
Such an amazing thread. I still get chills when I remember watching him play at MLG Orlando. Seeing him in person was unbelievable. It sucks that he never got his GSL championship. He was so close. We will always be waiting for your return MKP!
MKP always struck me as a kind of abusive and cheesy player. Not that that's a bad thing, you play to win, but as SC2 got figured out more and the general level of skills increased, he couldn't keep up anymore and got put into his place and retiring is the last step of that progress.
Very very good post I loved MKP from the start and have been sad not seeing him do well, and no to see him go just sucks. But as a die hard fan I hope he does well in LOL which I still might not watch even with him going there.
On October 12 2013 23:39 Valikyr wrote: Well he couldn't really keep up when the Kespa pros switched over so I guess it's just as well he switches to an easier game.
Yeah it's pretty easy to break into the Pro LoL scene /s
This is very well written, especially how you've written it like an autobiography of MKP's SC2 career. Although I am not a MKP fan, nor do I consider him a masterful Terran player, this write up has definitely earned back the respect I lost for MKP with the news of him switching to League of "Legends". I hope with Legacy of the Void, MKP would return once again to his origins and resume his reign, but for now, I'm going to keep looking forward to Maru as MKP's legacy to his fans, the community, and the Prime SC2 team.
On October 14 2013 10:26 Velouria wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but didnt his fans pay for his flight to come to an american tourney? He has a huge fanbase.
ya, correct. They got enough donations within 4 hours then he proceeded to lose in the open bracket XD
On October 14 2013 10:26 Velouria wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but didnt his fans pay for his flight to come to an american tourney? He has a huge fanbase.
ya, correct. They got enough donations within 4 hours then he proceeded to lose in the open bracket XD
On October 14 2013 10:26 Velouria wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but didnt his fans pay for his flight to come to an american tourney? He has a huge fanbase.
ya, correct. They got enough donations within 4 hours then he proceeded to lose in the open bracket XD
He actually qualified for groups through the bracket, won his group, and got top 6
On October 14 2013 10:26 Velouria wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but didnt his fans pay for his flight to come to an american tourney? He has a huge fanbase.
ya, correct. They got enough donations within 4 hours then he proceeded to lose in the open bracket XD
On October 14 2013 10:26 Velouria wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but didnt his fans pay for his flight to come to an american tourney? He has a huge fanbase.
ya, correct. They got enough donations within 4 hours then he proceeded to lose in the open bracket XD
He actually qualified for groups through the bracket, won his group, and got top 6
hmm I see. Then which MLG was it where MKP lost in the open bracket? Wasn't it the first one? I thought that was the one he got sponsored for because a TL member mentioned it since I didn't watch that MLG much.
On October 14 2013 12:43 opterown wrote: MKP has always made it to championship sunday i believe, and he was only reddit sponsored to 1 MLG ever.
ya, I remember he got sponsored to 1 MLG. I'm just trying to remember if he infact ever went out in the open bracket or if someone wrote something wrong and I just remember it lol
On October 14 2013 12:43 opterown wrote: MKP has always made it to championship sunday i believe, and he was only reddit sponsored to 1 MLG ever.
ya, I remember he got sponsored to 1 MLG. I'm just trying to remember if he infact ever went out in the open bracket or if someone wrote something wrong and I just remember it lol
On October 14 2013 12:43 opterown wrote: MKP has always made it to championship sunday i believe, and he was only reddit sponsored to 1 MLG ever.
ya, I remember he got sponsored to 1 MLG. I'm just trying to remember if he infact ever went out in the open bracket or if someone wrote something wrong and I just remember it lol
Never really liked him because of his drama queening every time he lost. But he's still a great cyber athlete and for sure an SC2 icon so it's sad to see him go.
Not a big fan, but he has give us some fun games, so GL in his future endeavours. Offtopic : Could you chose better titles in the futures ? This one just makes me sick .. Unless you have some mancrush on him ..
i actually had to log in for this, @Leru who do you think you are? clearly american if you have a homophobia lol..... its a good tittle, and i remember correctly whenever MKP has gone of the scene, or just done bad. its always 'goodnight sweet king' or 'the king has fallen' MKP deserves all the love he gets because hes given us so many memories.. and i for one enjoy seeing pleasent things.. but for you to say. ' this makes me sick' well you just made me sick with how much a loser you really are, to pick that out of this WHOLE thread, i know its the tittle and not hard to miss but still. its a great play on his name.,.. now go watch dota2...
EDIT: Any1 know if his debut in LoL will be posted?
This is getting ridicoulus, leaving SC2, world's most epic and competitive game for a game like LoL!? It boggles my mind why anyone want to do this, i can understand if you're getting fedup by playing +10h /day but i mean take a break. Well nicely written article at least.
On October 18 2013 00:07 MidnightZL wrote: This is getting ridicoulus, leaving SC2, world's most epic and competitive game for a game like LoL!? It boggles my mind why anyone want to do this, i can understand if you're getting fedup by playing +10h /day but i mean take a break. Well nicely written article at least.
because LoL is bigger and much more popular than SCII will ever be in Korea? You seem to forget where he's living lol.
While as a Protoss player I am first and foremost a MC fan, I have lots of love for MKP. He's basically the Terran version of MC, both plays a very unique and abusive style and gained a lot of succes with it especially early on. And they came from the same era. Sad to see him go.
A little gem from earlier in Marineking's career: his appearance on March 2011 of GOM's shortlived Team House Attack! series.
The series concept is that a single player, carrying a personal banner, travels to a rival team house to challenge them. If he can defeat four players from the defending team he signifies the victory by destroying their team banner. It is very lighthearted, with funny graphics, music, acting, in-game chat, and narration from Gisado and (I believe) Mr. Chae, though it is unfortunately not subbed in English.
In this episode, MKP challenges the new team MVP. Features MKP and cameos from Polt (I think), anypro, Genius, Monster, Tails, Guineapig, MVP coach Choi, and a then-obscure, but impressive and showy young Zerg who happens to go by the odd name of Dongraegu, foreshadowing his later rivalry with MKP on much larger stages...
MKP was so good, he decided before the game he would give Kyrix a handicap in his breakout tournament, and he CHOSE not to get Combat Shields. O.O
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
He single-handedly defined the entire TvZ matchup on his own. He showed that Zergs can't just mass banelings and roll all Terrans over (they can get pretty damn well close though).
Although, by the same reason, every mid and low level Terran should hate the guy for doing this, because the game has since been balanced around the idea that Terrans will always micro their units near perfectly. But if the game wasn't balanced like this, top level play would be grossly in favor of Terrans.
On October 24 2013 07:05 RyLai wrote: MKP was so good, he decided before the game he would give Kyrix a handicap in his breakout tournament, and he CHOSE not to get Combat Shields. O.O
On October 12 2013 00:56 robson1 wrote: Well written.
although I never understood how anybody did not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Marineking as a player. He basically was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with terran in 2010-2011. He basically only won games by baceracing, 2 raxing, and stimming up ramps without vision. He also cockblocked jinro from becoming the one foreigner that made it to the GSL finals. How epic would that MVP vs. Jinro final have been?
Also... them glasses :ugh:
I do however acknowledge that MKP was legit good in late 2011 early 2012. But I never go the obsession with this guy.
He single-handedly defined the entire TvZ matchup on his own. He showed that Zergs can't just mass banelings and roll all Terrans over (they can get pretty damn well close though).
Although, by the same reason, every mid and low level Terran should hate the guy for doing this, because the game has since been balanced around the idea that Terrans will always micro their units near perfectly. But if the game wasn't balanced like this, top level play would be grossly in favor of Terrans.
cmon, while I agree MKP was a top player back when WoL was released and had a hand in making TvZ a better matchup(more entertaining to watch), going as far as saying that he completely defined the matchup because he showed that splitting against banes can be super effective is a bit much don't you think? I can understand if terrans were losing left and right and he made some build that's really solid and adaptive to the zerg which is still in use(Bisu is an ex) but he utilized marine splits to beat banes >.>
I will never forget that foxer season, someone made a funny banner about how mkp beat all the perceived hard counters to marines with pure marines.... MKP i will miss you
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/0/04/MKPWinterArenaVictory.jpg)
Jinro, 
Bisu, 
Stephano and everyone else imaginable retire, and I never blame them, and as selfish as it is, I really wish they would stay. Today however, I did not get quite that feeling when I saw the posts about MKP. Which is strange, because everyone of my friends know the deep burning passion I have for Marine King, he is most likely the reason I still watch professional SC2. I guess it's always been looming over me, the fact that MKP never will win that GSL trophy, and the fact that he never will return to dominate the top tier again have been so obvious that I guess I got used to the fact that he would leave soon. ![[image loading]](http://starcraft.md/Content/Gallery/7fb15c09-3c7b-47af-92e6-2322fec4384a-MarineKingPrime1.jpg)
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