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On August 10 2013 19:21 Stoffelhase wrote:
1. splitting and flanking with zealots is not only possible but sometimes essential in max vs max fights. Stalker micro is key for holding any proxy, how can you say there is no micro at all involved?? Also in lategame, there is always improvement to perfect blinkplay.
2. All i said is that it does not NULLIFY all the defenders advantage. I gave you lots of points why, but you just chose to call me silly in some way.
3. I dont get what you want. Protoss can have 20-30 gates too if it goes to extremes. But why is that bad? Also there is a difference in my zerg macro abilities, the mediocre grandmaster player and world best zergs. Why? Because the simply have better macro and do better "clicking on the mouse".
1.
No u are wrong, zealots in max vs max fights cant really do anything.
Everything in starcraft can flank, and split
How should i explain it
In a big battle, the zealots cant position themself cuz of so high damageout put from range units, there is no time for you react and their slow passive movement speed hinders this to. Charge in this case is so pure piss bad in a rts game like this
They go on autopilot
EXCEPTIONS OFCOURSE and DEGREE SCALE
stalkers is the same way, how can they micro in big fights?
Compare to bio of terran. Terran has huge power of his micro
And compare to broodwar, have you played that game? Zealots with higher movement speed(No charge) and less damageoutput overall they could position themself in big fights, in small fights there was more micro also
Everything could micro there
3.
It is bad because the macroskill removes it, and gameplay stalls
They are all broken in their own way, iam all for difference things but not when it comes to things like mules in lategame(Sacrafice scvs for bigger armee)
Larva inject, can remax in an instant
Protoss warpgate(can have instant reinforcement
These are cool and all but they ruin gameplay alot in the long run
Have you played broodwar?
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On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit.
They've forgotten that they need to compete and compete against better companies these days like Valve and Riot and others, they still think this is 10 years ago where absolutely everyone adored Blizzard, but they are not, with the pay to play WOW, with no LAN for SC2, with the restricted regions for SC2 for so long, with the always online requirement for Diablo 3, with the terrible story telling in their new games, to some of the voice acting decisions like to change Kerrigan's original voice actor, to not listening to the fans, they are very much disliked.
They are so out of reality, they are so out of touch and unless they wake up and realize what a bunch of pricks they've become, its going to go downhill for them.
I mean the community can always change games, can always come up with better games than Blizzard like it did with Dota and like it did with tower defenses and other types of maps.
haha. wtf
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I think there will always be a (hard) core of SC II fans that love the game, that love to play and love to watch games.
But for me as a yeah, as a gamer who plays really a lot but just at a casual level, yeah I admire the skill it takes to play SC 2, I played a lot when the game started, I played in both betas, was placed about a diamond level also when masters got introduced. Then played less because of work and then played even lesser because I felt how bad I got at playing without constantly playing or practicing stuff it just lost the appeal for me.
Then I stopped playing, maybe played 1-2 games a week but was frenetically watching streams and tournaments that I loved.
But then Dota 2 came out. I got in the beta, I got friends of mine in the beta and it was just fun. You can have short games, play with friends chat. Controlling one hero is not as taxing as controlling an army and producing stuff.
I also stopped watching SC 2 I have to admit. Now I watch Dota, the Dota 2 Internationals are just mind blowing great and fun. I even watch Dota streams, I only watch SC 2 if there is no Dota channel of interest online.
In my opinion SC 2 is loosing the support of its casual players because the game is simply to taxing, mostly 1v1 where you can't really interact with friends and you as a casual don't play it because you get steamrolled by other players if you don't practice enough.
Of course you get steam rolled when playing against another good Dota team, but it does not feel that bad.
You can always get 1-2 kills or blame your team for the loss or whatever. It does not fell like omg, I have no detection because I forgot and now I am dead, qq cloaked banshees, darktemplar, hellbat dropp all that base building and droneing obliterated in seconds.
SC 2 in my opinion, to attract more people, has to get more casual friendly. Yeah I hear the snobs crying, boooo and no anc compared to broodwar SC2 is too easy and what not.
But why not reduce the damage output so that battles last longer, why not increase vision a bit, why not make the game zoom out more. Make the game more dynamic, include more dynamic in units and how they work together and synergize, make research that matters and maybe let players choose from a technology path or what not.
There are thousands of ideas.
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On August 10 2013 21:45 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 19:21 Stoffelhase wrote:
1. splitting and flanking with zealots is not only possible but sometimes essential in max vs max fights. Stalker micro is key for holding any proxy, how can you say there is no micro at all involved?? Also in lategame, there is always improvement to perfect blinkplay.
2. All i said is that it does not NULLIFY all the defenders advantage. I gave you lots of points why, but you just chose to call me silly in some way.
3. I dont get what you want. Protoss can have 20-30 gates too if it goes to extremes. But why is that bad? Also there is a difference in my zerg macro abilities, the mediocre grandmaster player and world best zergs. Why? Because the simply have better macro and do better "clicking on the mouse". 1. No u are wrong, zealots in max vs max fights cant really do anything. Everything in starcraft can flank, and split How should i explain it In a big battle, the zealots cant position themself cuz of so high damageout put from range units, there is no time for you react and their slow passive movement speed hinders this to. Charge in this case is so pure piss bad in a rts game like this They go on autopilot EXCEPTIONS OFCOURSE and DEGREE SCALE stalkers is the same way, how can they micro in big fights? Compare to bio of terran. Terran has huge power of his micro And compare to broodwar, have you played that game? Zealots with higher movement speed(No charge) and less damageoutput overall they could position themself in big fights, in small fights there was more micro also Everything could micro there 3. It is bad because the macroskill removes it, and gameplay stalls They are all broken in their own way, iam all for difference things but not when it comes to things like mules in lategame(Sacrafice scvs for bigger armee) Larva inject, can remax in an instant Protoss warpgate(can have instant reinforcement These are cool and all but they ruin gameplay alot in the long run Have you played broodwar?
I'm not sure you really played sc2. Seems like to me you're just another die hard bw fan and couldn't fully transition to sc2, because otherwise you'd have known that microing zealots is far easier than in bw. It's just that I think most protons players are so fucking lazy and they don't want to put at least 3 hotkeys for units alone...
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On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit.
Couldnt disagree with you more... The Blizzard i've known since i started playing WoW back in da days and to recent years they always listened to players and always had lovely GM's ingame with fast response etc, its not the picture you got to say the least. You cant find a better company than blizzard when it comes to quality and caring about fans etc.
It also seems ppl in general are afraid of that sc2 is dying, this is absolutley not the case, theres no reason to worry. Don't worry be happy!
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On August 10 2013 22:41 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 21:45 Foxxan wrote:On August 10 2013 19:21 Stoffelhase wrote:
1. splitting and flanking with zealots is not only possible but sometimes essential in max vs max fights. Stalker micro is key for holding any proxy, how can you say there is no micro at all involved?? Also in lategame, there is always improvement to perfect blinkplay.
2. All i said is that it does not NULLIFY all the defenders advantage. I gave you lots of points why, but you just chose to call me silly in some way.
3. I dont get what you want. Protoss can have 20-30 gates too if it goes to extremes. But why is that bad? Also there is a difference in my zerg macro abilities, the mediocre grandmaster player and world best zergs. Why? Because the simply have better macro and do better "clicking on the mouse". 1. No u are wrong, zealots in max vs max fights cant really do anything. Everything in starcraft can flank, and split How should i explain it In a big battle, the zealots cant position themself cuz of so high damageout put from range units, there is no time for you react and their slow passive movement speed hinders this to. Charge in this case is so pure piss bad in a rts game like this They go on autopilot EXCEPTIONS OFCOURSE and DEGREE SCALE stalkers is the same way, how can they micro in big fights? Compare to bio of terran. Terran has huge power of his micro And compare to broodwar, have you played that game? Zealots with higher movement speed(No charge) and less damageoutput overall they could position themself in big fights, in small fights there was more micro also Everything could micro there 3. It is bad because the macroskill removes it, and gameplay stalls They are all broken in their own way, iam all for difference things but not when it comes to things like mules in lategame(Sacrafice scvs for bigger armee) Larva inject, can remax in an instant Protoss warpgate(can have instant reinforcement These are cool and all but they ruin gameplay alot in the long run Have you played broodwar? I'm not sure you really played sc2. Seems like to me you're just another die hard bw fan and couldn't fully transition to sc2, because otherwise you'd have known that microing zealots is far easier than in bw. It's just that I think most protons players are so fucking lazy and they don't want to put at least 3 hotkeys for units alone...
What did u not understand? not about easy or hard to micro the zealots its that you cant
I compare to broodwar to get you a picture, nothing else
Stop this shittalk u have "have u even played starcraft" "u seem to be another die hard bw fan"
Its pathetic of you to write that
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I don't work for Blizzard, but I'll give it a go anyway.
1. Do you like how Starcraft develops? What do you plan to do to remain on level with such games as Dota, World of Tanks and LoL?
We are very happy with how Starcraft is developing. Heart of the Swarm has addressed a great many problems with the gameplay of Wings of Liberty. We are continuing to add features to battle.net. So many players competed for entry to WCS Europe and America that organisers could barely cope with the numbers. With WCS competitions in three regions, more people are watching more hours of Starcraft 2 than ever before. Obviously we want to continue making things better, but we are happy with our progress so far.
While we can learn a lot from other games it is important not to fall into the trap of thinking that for Starcraft to be successful it must "beat" them. DotA, LoL and World of Tanks are very different games to Starcraft, and many of the things that make them appeal to a wider audience are things we couldn't implement in Starcraft 2 without making it not Starcraft any more. We must focus on whether our game is successful and sustainable in its own right, not how successful it is compared to some other, completely different game.
2. How WCS develops SCII scene? What will you say if WCS will be having top-8 each region as koreans? How will it help to develop young talents all over the world?
There was no model for WCS that would have made everyone happy, or satisfied every possible thing people might have wanted from a global league. When devising WCS, we felt the most important thing was that every region have a credible league, that would not leave audiences feeling short-changed, and that would feed legitimate contenders into the global finals.
We would like to create more direct opportunities for young, up-and-coming players in the future, but right now we must be mindful of not diluting our focus. Meanwhile, the encouragement WCS gives to all upcoming talent is the promise that if you make it in your home region, you no longer have to move to live in Korea before you can face a top tier of opponents or have your achievements taken seriously.
3. In continuation to previous questions. Don't you fear that WCS will simply kill small(medium) online/lan events, because noone takes care of them, since WCS is always on a screens? And if it will be happening like that, how young potential stars can develop? There won't be small cups and big cups are taken by koreans in all 3 regions? Who will invest money in youngsters then?
The balance between WCS and independent events is something we are still working on. The demand for WCS events to be broadcast live and in their entirety (witness the outcry when the qualifiers in Europe and USA were not covered to the satisfaction of the community) makes it hard for us to meet a balance between properly running our own league, while giving others room to breathe. It is something we are still working on.
Still, there are a great many healthy offline and online events around the world, the largest of which now have the additional draw of being able to reward WCS points.
4. Which are your nearest plans regarding battle.net upgrades? Why during all that time you still didn't make channels, like in SC:BW, where people from 1 region appear in a channel and can easily discuss stuff with friends? Don't you feel like every person feels "forever alone" in SC2? Why person can't race pick against every race, because it doesn't like, for example, mirrors?
Our experience with "general chat" in games is that it quickly becomes full of spam and abuse, and is actively hostile to newcomers. While many players look back on the chat system of Brood War with fond nostalgia, we honestly don't believe reintroducing it would address a real problem with the game.
While they're still different games, it is worth noting that neither DotA2 nor LoL places players in a general chat by default.
Fans and players have plenty of places to congregate online and find each other, from the official forums, to reddit, to TeamLiquid.net, to twitch.tv to countless fan-sites and gaming forums, none of which existed when Brood War was released. Players are already more likely to join chat channels around these kinds of communities than they are to try to seek out purely regional channels.
5. What do you think about situation, in which terran as race almost disappeared from GML league in EU and NA servers? (47 from 200 in NA, 49 from 180 in Europe). Not so long ago you said that "Protosses simply lack of good players". So what happened to terrans then?
We are concerned about the issue, but we believe balance at the very top level of play is our highest priority. Currently, seven of the sixteen WCS Global Finals spots are held by Terrans. Making a balance change that would buff Terran at the mid-GM level but not make Terran unbeatable at the highest level of competition is something we must address very, very carefully.
Thanks for your questions,
Fake Blizzard
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On August 10 2013 21:22 Stoffelhase wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 19:53 Elldar wrote:
2. I think you don't know what defenders advantage mean. It is has to do with reinforcements not with defensive structures, the defender can noramlly reinforce easier than the attacker can but a warp-in outside the nat and that do not hold true any longer. Hence nullifies defenders advantage. Besides just because you theoratically can kill a forward pylon does not mean that it is possible.
I think you don't know what defenders advatage mean. Sure reinforcement paths are a big thing here, but defenders advantage is literally anything that helps the defender such as a small ramp, highground vision benefits, the ability to pull workers into the fight, etc.. Also it is very common to deny proxypylons with speedlings or a defensive stalkerrush build, also reapers do that quite well, sure it does not succeed every game, but it is not as rare it sounds in your post.
No reinforcements is the biggest thing, positioning concers both players and the attacking player can choose to engage wherever he want aswell. With forcefields the positioning of the defender is also weakend so over the board the protoss can nullify the defenders advantage.
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On August 11 2013 01:21 carlfish wrote:I don't work for Blizzard, but I'll give it a go anyway. Show nested quote +
1. Do you like how Starcraft develops? What do you plan to do to remain on level with such games as Dota, World of Tanks and LoL?
We are very happy with how Starcraft is developing. Heart of the Swarm has addressed a great many problems with the gameplay of Wings of Liberty. We are continuing to add features to battle.net. So many players competed for entry to WCS Europe and America that organisers could barely cope with the numbers. With WCS competitions in three regions, more people are watching more hours of Starcraft 2 than ever before. Obviously we want to continue making things better, but we are happy with our progress so far. While we can learn a lot from other games it is important not to fall into the trap of thinking that for Starcraft to be successful it must "beat" them. DotA, LoL and World of Tanks are very different games to Starcraft, and many of the things that make them appeal to a wider audience are things we couldn't implement in Starcraft 2 without making it not Starcraft any more. We must focus on whether our game is successful and sustainable in its own right, not how successful it is compared to some other, completely different game. Show nested quote +
2. How WCS develops SCII scene? What will you say if WCS will be having top-8 each region as koreans? How will it help to develop young talents all over the world?
There was no model for WCS that would have made everyone happy, or satisfied every possible thing people might have wanted from a global league. When devising WCS, we felt the most important thing was that every region have a credible league, that would not leave audiences feeling short-changed, and that would feed legitimate contenders into the global finals. We would like to create more direct opportunities for young, up-and-coming players in the future, but right now we must be mindful of not diluting our focus. Meanwhile, the encouragement WCS gives to all upcoming talent is the promise that if you make it in your home region, you no longer have to move to live in Korea before you can face a top tier of opponents or have your achievements taken seriously. Show nested quote +
3. In continuation to previous questions. Don't you fear that WCS will simply kill small(medium) online/lan events, because noone takes care of them, since WCS is always on a screens? And if it will be happening like that, how young potential stars can develop? There won't be small cups and big cups are taken by koreans in all 3 regions? Who will invest money in youngsters then?
The balance between WCS and independent events is something we are still working on. The demand for WCS events to be broadcast live and in their entirety (witness the outcry when the qualifiers in Europe and USA were not covered to the satisfaction of the community) makes it hard for us to meet a balance between properly running our own league, while giving others room to breathe. It is something we are still working on. Still, there are a great many healthy offline and online events around the world, the largest of which now have the additional draw of being able to reward WCS points. Show nested quote +
4. Which are your nearest plans regarding battle.net upgrades? Why during all that time you still didn't make channels, like in SC:BW, where people from 1 region appear in a channel and can easily discuss stuff with friends? Don't you feel like every person feels "forever alone" in SC2? Why person can't race pick against every race, because it doesn't like, for example, mirrors?
Our experience with "general chat" in games is that it quickly becomes full of spam and abuse, and is actively hostile to newcomers. While many players look back on the chat system of Brood War with fond nostalgia, we honestly don't believe reintroducing it would address a real problem with the game. While they're still different games, it is worth noting that neither DotA2 nor LoL places players in a general chat by default. Fans and players have plenty of places to congregate online and find each other, from the official forums, to reddit, to TeamLiquid.net, to twitch.tv to countless fan-sites and gaming forums, none of which existed when Brood War was released. Players are already more likely to join chat channels around these kinds of communities than they are to try to seek out purely regional channels. Show nested quote +
5. What do you think about situation, in which terran as race almost disappeared from GML league in EU and NA servers? (47 from 200 in NA, 49 from 180 in Europe). Not so long ago you said that "Protosses simply lack of good players". So what happened to terrans then?
We are concerned about the issue, but we believe balance at the very top level of play is our highest priority. Currently, seven of the sixteen WCS Global Finals spots are held by Terrans. Making a balance change that would buff Terran at the mid-GM level but not make Terran unbeatable at the highest level of competition is something we must address very, very carefully. Thanks for your questions, Fake Blizzard
Kudos on these responses: well thought out, sound and fair. I can imagine Blizzard responding in this way.
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My problem with Sc2 right now is there is literally no 1v1 competition and that forces people like me who don't really care about fighting games to play Sc2 or don't be competitive.
Dota 2 would be my second choice but finding a team and competing in that game is near impossible for someone anti social like me.
Sc2 will always exist as long as there is no other 1v1 alternative.
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On August 10 2013 23:26 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 22:41 RaiZ wrote:On August 10 2013 21:45 Foxxan wrote:On August 10 2013 19:21 Stoffelhase wrote:
1. splitting and flanking with zealots is not only possible but sometimes essential in max vs max fights. Stalker micro is key for holding any proxy, how can you say there is no micro at all involved?? Also in lategame, there is always improvement to perfect blinkplay.
2. All i said is that it does not NULLIFY all the defenders advantage. I gave you lots of points why, but you just chose to call me silly in some way.
3. I dont get what you want. Protoss can have 20-30 gates too if it goes to extremes. But why is that bad? Also there is a difference in my zerg macro abilities, the mediocre grandmaster player and world best zergs. Why? Because the simply have better macro and do better "clicking on the mouse". 1. No u are wrong, zealots in max vs max fights cant really do anything. Everything in starcraft can flank, and split How should i explain it In a big battle, the zealots cant position themself cuz of so high damageout put from range units, there is no time for you react and their slow passive movement speed hinders this to. Charge in this case is so pure piss bad in a rts game like this They go on autopilot EXCEPTIONS OFCOURSE and DEGREE SCALE stalkers is the same way, how can they micro in big fights? Compare to bio of terran. Terran has huge power of his micro And compare to broodwar, have you played that game? Zealots with higher movement speed(No charge) and less damageoutput overall they could position themself in big fights, in small fights there was more micro also Everything could micro there 3. It is bad because the macroskill removes it, and gameplay stalls They are all broken in their own way, iam all for difference things but not when it comes to things like mules in lategame(Sacrafice scvs for bigger armee) Larva inject, can remax in an instant Protoss warpgate(can have instant reinforcement These are cool and all but they ruin gameplay alot in the long run Have you played broodwar? I'm not sure you really played sc2. Seems like to me you're just another die hard bw fan and couldn't fully transition to sc2, because otherwise you'd have known that microing zealots is far easier than in bw. It's just that I think most protons players are so fucking lazy and they don't want to put at least 3 hotkeys for units alone... What did u not understand? not about easy or hard to micro the zealots its that you cant I compare to broodwar to get you a picture, nothing else Stop this shittalk u have "have u even played starcraft" "u seem to be another die hard bw fan" Its pathetic of you to write that
Have you ever played bw at a very competitive level? I'm talking back when there was still like 1000 Koreans on the top 1000 of iccup ? Probably not. Sc2 at a competitive level ? Maybe. But you say I dont know what I'm talking about ? Because let me tell you that you cant micro the mass zealot either when you're in a big fight except maybe some zealots bombs but then you can do that too with sc2. Thing is it simply doesn't work the same way. It's just silly to compare these 2 games. And that's what you did.
Edit : Sorry for being harsh, but listen, I'm a little sick of ppl comparing bw and sc2 when it's not really the same game tbh...
If you want a perfect example of your comparaison then i can talk about the stalkers and the dragoons if you want : how many of right clicks do you need in order to put, say, 12 dragoons up in a small ramp without them fucking their path up ? Probably ten times more than moving the stalkers... And I didn't even mention about blink.
That's what you're trying to compare : The zealots of bw that don't have charge compared to sc2. They just don't work the same way.
So yeah, I'm sorry, but if you want to compare this game with bw, then try to talk about the interface or the possibility of being played in lans. There I'd agree with you @ 100%
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On August 10 2013 18:53 Stoffelhase wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:29 Elldar wrote:
What is most bothering to me about the games is the fundamental mechanics of sc2. The pathfinding, macro mechanics.
The pathfinding clumps up units making aoe damage much more effective.
The macro mechanics is balancing on the fine thread that every mechanics is in its own right broken.
Warp-gates nullifies defenders advantage and makes it tremendously harder to prepare properly for attacks and all-ins.
Larva inject give zerg extreme capabilities of remaxing and producing units and drones.
Mules speed up terrans productions to such a degree that spending 550 for 3rd CC for mules and scv is generally safe + makes scv kind of obsolete late game.
1. the pathfinding is awesome compared to bw and wc3 and it is your job as a good player to micro your units. Split them, arc them, dont run into aoe with balls. 2. Warpgate does not nullify defenders advantage. There is still a pylon needed that is either slightly away or can be attacked a bit easy, often it is not even possible to get an inbase pylon in rushes. There is still a ramp/choke that can be better defended. There is photon overcharge, the biggest buff to early protoss defense (in pvp)! There can be workers pulled to defend. 3. Saying the macro mechanics are so broken that they balance each other means they are not broken at all. Sure they are strong and it would be silly to play without them, but so are expansions. So you say expanding is broken as well, but it is balancing itself because every race can do it? Sounds silly to me, this is not "broken".
Pure ignorance.
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On August 10 2013 23:16 MidnightZL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit. Couldnt disagree with you more... The Blizzard i've known since i started playing WoW back in da days and to recent years they always listened to players and always had lovely GM's ingame with fast response etc, its not the picture you got to say the least. You cant find a better company than blizzard when it comes to quality and caring about fans etc. It also seems ppl in general are afraid of that sc2 is dying, this is absolutley not the case, theres no reason to worry. Don't worry be happy!
ROFL ... WoW GMs are not the same as Blizzards SC2 devs. The job of a GM is to listen to the customer and make him feel happy, but that isnt the same behaviour which David Kim and Dustin Browder are showing. One of them has explained that we want the deathball and the other has explained that they think that mech is boring and thus they would keep its viability below that of bio on purpose. They also didnt understand the point of the "dynamic unit movement" at all ...
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Starcraft is a game with a a perpendicular learning curve. It gets steeper the more you learn.
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On August 10 2013 23:16 MidnightZL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit. Couldnt disagree with you more... The Blizzard i've known since i started playing WoW back in da days and to recent years they always listened to players and always had lovely GM's ingame with fast response etc, its not the picture you got to say the least. You cant find a better company than blizzard when it comes to quality and caring about fans etc. It also seems ppl in general are afraid of that sc2 is dying, this is absolutley not the case, theres no reason to worry. Don't worry be happy!
just compare riot or valve and you would know what a real loving company is like
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On August 11 2013 13:31 plogamer wrote:
Starcraft is a game with a a perpendicular learning curve. It gets steeper the more you learn.
Starcraft is a game which is random at lower levels because the result of a battle depends a lot on "Was the defender looking when the attacker started to attack or not?" Only when your reflexes and attention are trained and reduced enough by constant practice can you have stable games. Other deciding questions for mid and low level players are "Did the defender notice that I am switching to produce a massive army or not?", "Did the defender scout my proxy Oracle and produce enough defense against it?", ...
Starcraft 2 is designed to have a lot of production and a lot of ways to make a "defensive position" useless. Sure enough this adds to the aggression, but it kills the need for strategy.
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On August 11 2013 13:19 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 23:16 MidnightZL wrote:On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit. Couldnt disagree with you more... The Blizzard i've known since i started playing WoW back in da days and to recent years they always listened to players and always had lovely GM's ingame with fast response etc, its not the picture you got to say the least. You cant find a better company than blizzard when it comes to quality and caring about fans etc. It also seems ppl in general are afraid of that sc2 is dying, this is absolutley not the case, theres no reason to worry. Don't worry be happy! ROFL ... WoW GMs are not the same as Blizzards SC2 devs. The job of a GM is to listen to the customer and make him feel happy, but that isnt the same behaviour which David Kim and Dustin Browder are showing. One of them has explained that we want the deathball and the other has explained that they think that mech is boring and thus they would keep its viability below that of bio on purpose. They also didnt understand the point of the "dynamic unit movement" at all ...
To be fair, their main job is not really to cater to the TL/BW crowd. SC2 would have sold a lot less copies if it was just a graphics update of BW which is what a lot of the hardcore BWer wanted. But in reality, they make up a tiny percentage of the customer base for SC2. People here on TL might hate the deathball, mules etc, but it has little or no effect on game sales.
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On August 11 2013 14:34 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 13:19 Rabiator wrote:On August 10 2013 23:16 MidnightZL wrote:On August 09 2013 19:04 BillGates wrote:
Blizzard are too brazen, too bravado and they have this delusion that they are still the best and screw everybody, they don't know shit. Couldnt disagree with you more... The Blizzard i've known since i started playing WoW back in da days and to recent years they always listened to players and always had lovely GM's ingame with fast response etc, its not the picture you got to say the least. You cant find a better company than blizzard when it comes to quality and caring about fans etc. It also seems ppl in general are afraid of that sc2 is dying, this is absolutley not the case, theres no reason to worry. Don't worry be happy! ROFL ... WoW GMs are not the same as Blizzards SC2 devs. The job of a GM is to listen to the customer and make him feel happy, but that isnt the same behaviour which David Kim and Dustin Browder are showing. One of them has explained that we want the deathball and the other has explained that they think that mech is boring and thus they would keep its viability below that of bio on purpose. They also didnt understand the point of the "dynamic unit movement" at all ... To be fair, their main job is not really to cater to the TL/BW crowd. SC2 would have sold a lot less copies if it was just a graphics update of BW which is what a lot of the hardcore BWer wanted. But in reality, they make up a tiny percentage of the customer base for SC2. People here on TL might hate the deathball, mules etc, but it has little or no effect on game sales.
Oh please ... stop the stupid "BW HD" nonsense. You arent really thinking it through and accept all the stupid stuff which Blizzard added to SC2 which is actually worse than BW. Sure enough there are improvements, but the logic of "unlimited unit control makes the game easier and thus better" is completely false for example. The same is true for the tight unit movement and the hyper production and together these things make SC2 much harder to balance and turn it into a game where coinflip and critical numbers (which arent balanced units anymore) decide games.
Blizzard decided to start with a blank sheet of paper when they began to develop SC2 and they just dumped some units and stuff from BW on it and threw the rest away. That wasnt a wise choice, because they had to figure out a new balance for the game instead of taking the old one and just adding some improvements to it and a few new units. Because of your opinion they had to remove lots of units that made sense and replaced them by stupid ones:
- Goliath is better than the Thor in useability and damage,
- Valkyrie and Wraith make more sense than Viking and Banshee and the same might be said about Protoss air,
- the free unit generating Broodlord is absolutely stupid compared to the Guardian and morphing the high tech stuff from Mutalisks makes more sense than adding another "AA only but useless otherwise" unit which you had to build even though the enemy doesnt have anything in the air worth shooting,
- the Medic had to go and thus they had to change the healer and invented the need for the Medivac ... the same for the Queen, which needed a redesign due to spawn larvae
- adding asymmetrical production speed boosts on top of asymmetrical production is really really stupid ...
In "The Two Towers" the dwarf Gimli and his friend Legolas find the "caves" in which the Rohirrim just hide their women and children in and to the dwarf this is a marvelous place of beauty. He says that more dwarves would come to the place and improve it with a single tiny chip with a very small pickaxe once every month. Well Blizzard didnt do that and they went to the cave with a few sticks of dynamite and just took the biggest pieces that were left over and tried to arrange them so it makes some sense. Well the end result doesnt look as pretty as it could have been if they had behaved like dwarves ...
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Dear Blizzard, Do you think people like starcraft for the simple fact that it gives them SO MUCH to complain about.. Or do you think that they actually enjoy playing the game?
As a bonus question: Do you think people complaining about the game "dying" are just scared because they've invested so much effort into this that they don't have any other skill sets in which to use to make money?
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Starcraft 2 is a good game, but it would probably be alot better with more time to react and a "slower" phase of battles etc, which would lead to a higher skill ceiling and less all-in playstyles. It would take away the focus of having two big armies clashing together on the map and the victor of the battle wins the game 95% of the time. Rather it would encourage more multitasking and "mini battles" around the map.
Sadly enough, these types of changes will never happen, those kinds of things had to be implemented when they made the game in the first place, its to late now. Believing in Blizzard to look into these massive changes, is like believing in santa.
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EPT
