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On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
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Good luck to TheOgnis in whatever he decides to do now!
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The sadness is that Theo's retirement supports the case that being a professional North American StarCraft 2 player is not viable.
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IF MORE PEOPLE RETIRE IT WILL BE THE END OF ALL OF US!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On August 02 2013 00:31 Fased wrote:
The sadness is that Theo's retirement supports the case that being a professional North American StarCraft 2 player is not viable.
This is basically what I was thinking. He's pretty much hit it as big as it can get for a North American player (having some limited success in WCS, getting on SotG and getting fans from that and stuff, etc.), and it's pretty depressing if someone gets to that point, realizes it pretty much can't get any better and that it's not worth sustaining and just drops out completely.
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Damn, he was really underrated for the entirety of his career.
Also wtf, why is it capitalized like that in the thread title? When has the 'O' ever been capitalized? It was theognis, but then became Theognis because ROOT and all that good stuff.
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The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix for two years of self induced decay.
Best of luck for Theognis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
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On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote:
The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
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You were one of my favorite people to watch. I thought you had so much more potential too. I am very upset, but I wish you the best of luck. 
<3 <3 <3 <3
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On August 02 2013 01:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote:
The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching. Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
I agree with you but I think it's not just the tournaments. It's also the coverage, in EU you have due to the different languages a lot of different local scenes and local media. In Germany for example there is ESL, TakeTV does a lot of stuff and there are others like Mori and MyStarcraft. This is mostly just local stuff, mostly in German for the German scene but it's enough to support a few teams and their players and give them the chance to compete in international tournaments without being depended on them. Same things happen in other European countries.
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That's a shame, would be good to know what he is planning on doing if he retires.
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On August 02 2013 00:13 bayaka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm. What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock. You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled. edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
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On August 02 2013 04:29 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 00:13 bayaka wrote:On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm. What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock. You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled. edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream. Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
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sorry to see theognis go he was really fun to watch and i generally don;t like watching terran.
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On August 02 2013 05:00 hellokittySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 04:29 govie wrote:On August 02 2013 00:13 bayaka wrote:On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm. What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock. You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled. edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream. Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time. and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 02 2013 05:07 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 05:00 hellokittySC2 wrote:On August 02 2013 04:29 govie wrote:On August 02 2013 00:13 bayaka wrote:On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm. What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock. You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled. edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream. Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time. and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak. Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong.. A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
A player like Xavier Malisse probably lives quite comfortably, relative to a lot of us.
Hellokitty is probably a bit more knowledgeable on the intricacies than us. I feel so much of it is dictated by location, in certain ways. For example, living costs in Eastern Europe are often a lot lower than over in the West, so Twitch revenue and prize money can potentially go further to players like White-Ra who are based out of those areas.
It's not that Americans are any less passionate, but relative to Eastern Europeans (for example), they have to earn more to have the same standard of living off progaming.
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On August 02 2013 01:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote:
The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching. Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
The problem is that its almost impossible for "online cups" and smaller tournaments to get sponsors / support. Players can't sustain themselves playing in small tournaments that have a $100 prize pool... thus, the NA scene is full of college kids and part-time players and not very many full-time professionals. It's only viable for a very few people in NA to play SC full-time, the rest are forced to have jobs, go to school etc and do SC on the side.
And even if you are REALLY good, getting a salary, a popular streamer, winning consistently in NA etc, you could still very, very easily make more $$$ just putting your time towards a job rather than SC.
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On August 02 2013 05:24 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 05:07 govie wrote:On August 02 2013 05:00 hellokittySC2 wrote:On August 02 2013 04:29 govie wrote:On August 02 2013 00:13 bayaka wrote:On August 01 2013 23:25 govie wrote:On August 01 2013 21:57 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 21:33 MrMercuG wrote:On August 01 2013 17:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote:
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard. Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered. I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him. Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans. He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from. Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course. Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????” I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased. 1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm. What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock. You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled. edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream. Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time. and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak. Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong.. A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player. A player like Xavier Malisse probably lives quite comfortably, relative to a lot of us. Hellokitty is probably a bit more knowledgeable on the intricacies than us. I feel so much of it is dictated by location, in certain ways. For example, living costs in Eastern Europe are often a lot lower than over in the West, so Twitch revenue and prize money can potentially go further to players like White-Ra who are based out of those areas. It's not that Americans are any less passionate, but relative to Eastern Europeans (for example), they have to earn more to have the same standard of living off progaming.
Exactly! And so do some protennisplayers because they live in a diff country or region. But wimbledon doesnt change the prizepool because ur from NA or KR region now do they?
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Thanks for the support everyone. I'm writing a blog atm that hopefully I can release tonight if I finish to explain my thoughts/actions and what's in store. I'll try to keep it as low profile as possible. Don't want to be an attention whore  I always got annoyed by 'em so let's not do that! Cheers.
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On August 02 2013 05:29 ChosenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 01:14 Plansix wrote:On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote:
The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching. Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark. The problem is that its almost impossible for "online cups" and smaller tournaments to get sponsors / support. Players can't sustain themselves playing in small tournaments that have a $100 prize pool... thus, the NA scene is full of college kids and part-time players and not very many full-time professionals. It's only viable for a very few people in NA to play SC full-time, the rest are forced to have jobs, go to school etc and do SC on the side. And even if you are REALLY good, getting a salary, a popular streamer, winning consistently in NA etc, you could still very, very easily make more $$$ just putting your time towards a job rather than SC.
Dota 2 has more cups that SC2 that get reasonable viewers and provide for reasonable prize pools. The teams are larger and each cup has more players in total than any single SC2 league. It is not impossible, it is just that the community is to bitchy and only wants tournments on the level of the GSL and whines when they are not of that level.
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EPT
