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On July 01 2013 23:08 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 23:03 GeNi wrote:
Stardust won with 2 base all ins pretty much the whole tournament. I can't count that. So pretty much HerO is the only toss that has won using legit mechanics and macro and whatever So are we also gonna count that in tournaments? 'Yeah you did defeat him, but you didn't have 4 bases, so thats an all-in, which we really cannot count as a win'.
Yeah, I don't get this. MVP won a GSL with a proxy 2 rax and we counted that game. The data is useless if you start removing games because it "didn't reflect the meta" or "it as an all-in".
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On July 01 2013 23:03 GeNi wrote:
Stardust won with 2 base all ins pretty much the whole tournament. I can't count that. So pretty much HerO is the only toss that has won using legit mechanics and macro and whatever
That OP 2 base allin off 3 base.
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On July 01 2013 23:03 GeNi wrote:
Stardust won with 2 base all ins pretty much the whole tournament. I can't count that. So pretty much HerO is the only toss that has won using legit mechanics and macro and whatever
So basically the best protoss players in Sc2 history are all invalid winners. Get over it. Protoss is supposed to be played with timings and trickery. They are certainly viable to play like Rain does, but its not the optimal to play in offline events, where mindgames and set strategy comes into play and protoss certainly has the strongest and the most varied options. Not every race is equal in the styles they play. Protoss mechanics are not impressive. (incoming 30 page thread bitching about warp gate and forcefield)
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SPL is really evident in these numbers. So many Protoss in PvProleague!
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Wonder how much TvZ will change once Terrans figure out how to stop Roach/Bane all-ins...
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On July 01 2013 21:10 MattD wrote:
Percentages don't mean that much, in WoL PvZ was close to 50%, doesn't mean it was balanced.
this, it looks nice all this data but it doesn't say anything.
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doesn't change the fact that terran needs a nerf
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David Kim's method of balance: Only looking at Code S ro16 games onward and make the balance change.
He does this since 2010.
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On July 02 2013 00:15 larse wrote:
David Kim's method of balance: Only looking at Code S ro16 games onward and make the balance change.
He does this since 2010.
and considers that 50 percent is actually balance, lol
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Lately we have seen terran players underperforming a little, so expect a bunker buff.
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On July 02 2013 00:06 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 21:10 MattD wrote:
Percentages don't mean that much, in WoL PvZ was close to 50%, doesn't mean it was balanced. this, it looks nice all this data but it doesn't say anything.
But the current proposed balance change doesn't address this issue.
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Not surprised at these numbers. Terran still gonna get nerfed first I bet xD
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I don't understand why anyone would include proleague in these statistics, it's just illogical. These stats either mean something or mean nothing. when you put a metagame and sniping based proleague in there it most definitely means nothing. Looking at the real statistics(posted in this thread), the game looks really balanced. it's weird to see protoss's actually keeping up
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On July 02 2013 00:05 _Search_ wrote:
Wonder how much TvZ will change once Terrans figure out how to stop Roach/Bane all-ins...
You can't stop a roach bane all in with playing greedy, whatever you do to be able to hold it makes your build non greedy anymore and thus you aren't that far ahead in the midgame.
Its like saying : you cant wait for Zergs to figure out how to stop 11/11 rax when they would go 3 hatch before pool.
(every player not named Happy)
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The balance team is filled with mentality of early day wol. The nightmare of gomTvT had haunted the balance team and left a deep trama in their mentality. Everyday Terran does remotely close to 'well', the drama and nightmire hit again. They rush to Blizzard HQ and shout 'Nerf Terran!' and then make the balance test map 
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On July 02 2013 00:24 aldochillbro wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would include proleague in these statistics, it's just illogical. These stats either mean something or mean nothing. when you put a metagame and sniping based proleague in there it most definitely means nothing. Looking at the real statistics(posted in this thread), the game looks really balanced. it's weird to see protoss's actually keeping up
Pretty sure they are still playing SC2 in proleague so I don't get your point. And just to point this out u/ArchyBaldy posted on reddit:
"It looks like if proleague was removed from the overall would have very little impact just due to how close to the overall the percentages were.
PvT 13–12 (52%), PvZ 17–18 (49%), TvZ 11–6 (64%)."
The amount of non-mirror games played in PL had almost no impact on these statistics. If anything they gave Terran a better win rate than they would have otherwise had.
So whatever way you spin it, your argument doesn't invalidate these statistics in any way.
And how hypocritical of you to argue against these statistics, because "they include PL" matches and don't confirm your biased views, but then happily accept statistics that include PL matches, amateur games, amateur clanwars and bottom of the food chain low level professional games? But what's that the latter confirms your biased views, despite including samples that are obviously inaccurate when attempting to reflect balance at the pro level? Yeah, let's go with that then.
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On July 01 2013 22:15 ETisME wrote:
Problem is that win rate had always looked fairly balanced, other than some tvz mass ghost, 4 gate and initial few months of infestor change.
Even the so called imbalanced zvp had a fairly even win rate, balanced by immortal sentries all in and broodlord infestor deathballs
I think there are too many roach ling baneling all in style in TvZ right now
Surely that around of 5 games of MvP with mass ghost made winrates favour Terran heavily...
Also for example TvZ matchup was significantly inbalanced in favour of Terran for more then year and then in favour of Zerg for almost year. So no, winrates had not looked fairly balanced in WoL.
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The only matchup that is legitimately broken right now is TvT. Obviously not "imbalanced", but stupidly volatile and way too focused on a single unit. Hopefully there's a way to fix TvT without affecting T too much in other matchups.
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I feel like balance is pretty good right now, but there are always things that can be done to make the game more interesting and/or enjoyable to play & watch.
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EPT
