EPTbut blizzard doesnt like matchups with only 1 viable build, even if the build is reasonably good. More skill than roach v roach I'd say.
buffing spores means less investment while still being safe from mutas.
Blizzard's Potential Balance Test Map Changes - Page 7
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
but blizzard doesnt like matchups with only 1 viable build, even if the build is reasonably good. More skill than roach v roach I'd say. buffing spores means less investment while still being safe from mutas. | ||
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Usernameffs
Sweden107 Posts
I think there is better ideas for corruptors but it can be one of them, web or slime that temporarily brings down air units. Corrupters only fight air but i like the idea if you loosing the air battle you can have your ground army help out. Lings and banelings in zvz. Or you can go roaches. I dont know if thats entertaining and how the matchup would be maybe mutas becomes totally useless in zvz and thats not good. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On April 23 2013 10:59 Munk200 wrote: Increasing the +bio to spores is not the correct answer to make the game better. Yes, it is true if you make spores do 50, 80, 100, or whatever high damage you want to vs bio, it will stop the muta vs muta in ZvZ. However it will also completely remove the option of a zerg making mutas in ZvZ. If they just buffed the hydra, like everyone has asked them to do since the WoL beta, then zerg would actually have options, and not be forced into mutas, but they would still be an option. On top of that, better hydras would make it so zerg could actually fight Air toss, and Air Terran armys. Do you think that defaulting their range to 6 and removing the upgrade would help to that end? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:33 forsooth wrote: Do you think that defaulting their range to 6 and removing the upgrade would help to that end? Maybe making hydras not light so they dont melt to banelings or increasing the projectile speed of fungal a little bit. | ||
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weiliem
2050 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Things that need to be looked at: 1. Tempest supply cost, currently too efficient vs T mech/Z lategame. 2. Viper blinding cloud duration/radius. 3. Mutalisk ZvZ. 4. Coinflip PvT openers due to proxy stargate/faster dt shrine, etc. That is all. The rest of the game can be solved by the players. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:33 forsooth wrote: Do you think that defaulting their range to 6 and removing the upgrade would help to that end? I know you're asking for HIS opinion but I highly doubt that would make the difference. The reason why mutalisk in the majority of the games beats hydra play is because of multi pronged attacks and the mutalisk player getting a third first. You can't split up your hydralisks or else they will be overwhelmed by the mutalisks but if you keep all your hydralisks in one spot then zergling run by's or split muta harass (or both) will punish you for it heavily. Even if you try to turtle if you get a third the mutalisk player will get a 4th. Not to mention if you try a timing attack the mutalisk player can just morph a bunch of banelings and erase your hydralisks. None of these problems with hydralisk play will be fixed by starting with 6 range. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:37 avilo wrote: Zerg does not need more buffs, Oracles do not need buffs, and the only Terran nerf that would be good is remove the bio flag from hellbats (buffs mech TvP, nerfs medivac drops with hellbats putting them on more of a timer). Things that need to be looked at: 1. Tempest supply cost, currently too efficient vs T mech/Z lategame. 2. Viper blinding cloud duration/radius. 3. Mutalisk ZvZ. 4. Coinflip PvT openers due to proxy stargate/faster dt shrine, etc. That is all. The rest of the game can be solved by the players. What buff is zerg getting? Burrow? That's not a big deal lol jesus I know you struggle in every mu but some balance changes are probably needed I like how the only nerf to terran you want is so hellbat drops and the reason you want that isn't because you think they are to strong tvp/tvz you want it so that it's not used as much in tvt which is the hilarious part. Nerf blinding cloud duration/radius then nerf widow mines to. In short your balance suggestions are just awful and tbh tempest are actually awful pvz imo i can't comment pvt but I would ask pretty much any other terran on their thoughts on mass tempests. Honestly remove muta vs muta zvz and zvz might become mass swarmhost vs swarmhost which would be awful dunno how they can "fix" muta vs muta without making zvz get even worse due to swarmhosts. | ||
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
I think I would rather have burrow be granted automatically at T2. You need to spend gas early on ling speed/OL speed to have good options early game, if you want to get aggressive with roaches/burrow then you forgo all of that. If burrow is T2 then you can have quick timings where you cause early damage then come with speed roaches pretty quickly and transition into something else. | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:22 Thrillz wrote: Yeah wtf, +Bio on hydras would affect every matchup by a lot. Give it +Bio to air units only. I believe that was the implication. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:22 Thrillz wrote: Yeah wtf, +Bio on hydras would affect every matchup by a lot. Obviously I meant bio air. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:20 Usernameffs wrote: I know how they can stop muta wars buff corruptors so they have the ability to bring down air units so ground units like roaches can attack them. Like Orc Raiders from Warcraft 3? Might as well give Zerg a Blademaster while you're at it. But in all seriousness, I hope Blizzard figures something out for the Corruptor in LotV. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
I dont know it could work, this is why there is a test map before an actual patch | ||
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Usernameffs
Sweden107 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:48 eviltomahawk wrote: Like Orc Raiders from Warcraft 3? Might as well give Zerg a Blademaster while you're at it. But in all seriousness, I hope Blizzard figures something out for the Corruptor in LotV. Yeah got wc3 vibes when i thought about it. Maybe to much but it would prob be hilarious to see in the game and entertaining if they would do it right. | ||
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
Ah...still it's not really the damage output that makes hydra vs muta not viable. It's more about mobility and map control. Which is why I think an infestor buff (perhaps vs air only??) or hydra range buff (vs air only) would be a better fix. Not sure why Blizzard is so afraid to make hydras a good unit. Another solution might be splash damage on corruptors...which could fix voids vs Z also. (Artosis said this, not my idea) | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:43 omnic wrote: I know you're asking for HIS opinion but I highly doubt that would make the difference. The reason why mutalisk in the majority of the games beats hydra play is because of multi pronged attacks and the mutalisk player getting a third first. You can't split up your hydralisks or else they will be overwhelmed by the mutalisks but if you keep all your hydralisks in one spot then zergling run by's or split muta harass (or both) will punish you for it heavily. Even if you try to turtle if you get a third the mutalisk player will get a 4th. Not to mention if you try a timing attack the mutalisk player can just morph a bunch of banelings and erase your hydralisks. None of these problems with hydralisk play will be fixed by starting with 6 range. Do hydras really fare that poorly against mutas, even with the high DPS they have and their superior range? The reason I'm curious about all this is that even though I don't play Zerg pretty much ever, I've been on the receiving end of and watched a lot of pros deal with some of that brute force roach/hydra midgame in TvZ that's gotten more popular since HotS came out, and it's quite a lot stronger than I anticipated it would be. If we can buff hydras in such a way that they can deal better with muta play then that's good, but making hydras significantly better could also create problems in TvZ. I just think it's too bad that there's no high level muta micro like there was in BW. Those muta/scourge fights were always cool. In SC2 it just seems like whoever has more mutas always wins because the only thing you can do is park your muta cloud on top of their muta cloud and wait for the outcome. | ||
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partydude89
1850 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:45 blade55555 wrote: What buff is zerg getting? Burrow? That's not a big deal lol jesus I know you struggle in every mu but some balance changes are probably needed I like how the only nerf to terran you want is so hellbat drops and the reason you want that isn't because you think they are to strong tvp/tvz you want it so that it's not used as much in tvt which is the hilarious part. Nerf blinding cloud duration/radius then nerf widow mines to. In short your balance suggestions are just awful and tbh tempest are actually awful pvz imo i can't comment pvt but I would ask pretty much any other terran on their thoughts on mass tempests. Honestly remove muta vs muta zvz and zvz might become mass swarmhost vs swarmhost which would be awful dunno how they can "fix" muta vs muta without making zvz get even worse due to swarmhosts. I agree 500 percent with this post. i hate it how some people are so biased when it comes to making sc2 a better game based on what race they play. yeah, i hate muta vs muta, but swarmhosts are almost just as bad. reminds me of Broodlord vs Broodlord. I don't ever remember Avilo ever making suggestions on serious (not stupid bio tag removal) suggestions on nerfing terran in any way ever. he always seems on the back foot while everything else is OP. | ||
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On April 23 2013 11:51 Usernameffs wrote: Yeah got wc3 vibes when i thought about it. Maybe to much but it would prob be hilarious to see in the game and entertaining if they would do it right. wouldn't it be more like the Nerubians? At either way I don't think that would help in zvz because corruptors already beat mutalisks in a straight up fight. They can't stop the mutalisks from harassing though and they can't do anything vs lings which is a big deal when you consider the fact that corruptors cost 50 more minerals than mutalisks so you'll have less zerglings assuming you both have the same economy(which you probably won't because you can't harass nearly as well as the mutalisk player can.) | ||
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