EPTBlizzard's Potential Balance Test Map Changes - Page 15
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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butter
United States785 Posts
On April 23 2013 10:06 ETisME wrote: Oracle speed is insane already. Why is everything so fast nowadays with speedmedivac and new muta It's because they chose the speeds for units when Steppes of War was a map, and now we have Whirlwind. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
Yeah that would helped more i guess that buff them vs bio...meh! | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7979 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: wtf is a burrow change. I think blizzard maybe only watches GSL/GSTL because everywhere else terran is raping the shit out of everything, and in Korea the only thing that sometimes works is the same old 2/2 muta ling bane timing lol, and even there terran is dominating overall. Nahh I mean, Lucifron, Happy, ForGG, are all just amazing players who deserve to win almost every teamleague and tournament they enter over everybody else. If you watch any of the popular terran streams (Demuslim/Byun/Polt) you simply don't see them lose. wtf is a burrow change seriously so fucking true, they try to improve zerg early game but all they come up with is overlord speed and burrow, like wtf are they even thinking with mothership core and free siege tanks/mines terran and p dont have to worry about a single thing zerg is doing in early and midgame i just dont get what their plan was when they added so many things to early game p and t and didnt change a SINGLE thing for zerg until the 10 minute mark | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: wtf is a burrow change. I think blizzard maybe only watches GSL/GSTL because everywhere else terran is raping the shit out of everything, and in Korea the only thing that sometimes works is the same old 2/2 muta ling bane timing lol, and even there terran is dominating overall. Nahh I mean, Lucifron, Happy, ForGG, are all just amazing players who deserve to win almost every teamleague and tournament they enter over everybody else. If you watch any of the popular terran streams (Demuslim/Byun/Polt) you simply don't see them lose. wtf is a burrow change seriously terran is the micro rewarding race and with the new medivac and mines you can get evn more out of it. zerg players just need to adjust their play + Show Spoiler + i've always wanted to say sdomething like that again after zerg players told me to adjust to the new queens and infestor changes. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
oh wow... Get ready for some serious static turtling from Zerg :D | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:03 omnic wrote: 1: That really has nothing to do with the idea of playing defensively and turtly until you get a big death ball. I wasn't suggesting that protoss literally functions in the exact same way as zerg does but that the game isn't designed for 1 race to have an end game unit composition that is supposed to be the "if you let him get this army you deserve to lose" 2: You're right about the super immobile army bit. Protoss deathballs are basically as slow as terran mech in BW was. If only you had some way to instantly teleport you're entire army to bases if the enemy brings their entire army to pick off an undefended base or the ability to instantly create units in those bases if the zerg sends a minimal force to try to harass/pick off the base with minimal forces. So yeah protoss has it pretty hard with the lack of options to shut down aggression from zergs. 3: You're right the protoss does require 3 different tech routes to get to to said army but so? Broodlord/corruptor/infestor is about gas heavy of a unit composition that you can have and the time it takes to tech to broodlords is longer than anything else in the game. This is a late game discussion so treat it as such. p.s. You don't think terran has generally the most cost effective armies in the game? Are you kidding? Nevermind about everything I said then because if your view on terran is that skewed than there's no use in trying to talk about balance with you. 1. Yes it does, because the money that you don't spend on infrastructure goes to defenses or economy. Thus, there is a much bigger vulnerability than what was seen vs the zerg turtle, since they could minimize their infrastructure spending for army and econ without floating very heavily (if at all). 2) If you're playing against a turtletoss->deathball attack, it's very unlikely that they will attack before 200/200 (negating warpin), and if you've been playing correctly (see catz vs hwangsin for an imperfect example in execution, but good strategy behind it) trading a base for a base will be FAR more crippling for the turtler than the expander. Not to mention the fact that the msc is pretty easy to pick off with the sheer damage output of lategame armies. 3) This goes back to the #1 point. If protoss has to invest a lot more into tech and production buildings than zerg, they have more vulnerability while teching, more expenses (which means they will be slower in expansions, remaxes, and harassment takes away from a very finite set of resources if they are unable to freely expand), and gives other races more time to react and impede the path to the deathball with aggression. EX if someone has 7-10 void rays and a fairly small gateway army while starting to add colossi (or colossi and starting to add voids), zerg can just make ~20 corruptors and go kill the protoss. Semi all-in, sure, but when you find timings like that where the other race is super vulnerable (WoL mech pre-hive push is another example), you use them or you can just sit there and let them get a bigger and better army with no pressure. P.S. You think M4(h) or M3VG(H) is as cost effective as viper/ultra/baneling/infestors or colo/templar or blord/infestor/ultra/corruptor or skytoss? Ravens are the closest thing that T has to a cost-effecient lategame unit, and HSM's are unreliable if your opponent has enough apm (especially now that the target has a great big i'm fucked colorchange)... edit: @Kubiks sorry i forgot about auto turrets... when they're as good as broodlings or infested terrans or locusts and can actually move pls tell me... and PDD isn't really a unit-it's an aoe spell (immobile) that can be stopped by anything that shoots air with a non-projectile attack... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25076 Posts
That said, I do think the current Biomine style is stupidly potent, but I prefer a 'wait-and-see' approach than just buffing/nerfing according to who whines harder. We go down that route and we'll have the end of WoL all over again, it was so aggravating to play at one stage that I just did the sensible thing and quit playing. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
I like the idea actually. This will not affect the other races as the only time splash comes into play another race is when you fly phoenix into a z base. And even then bunching them up has no function. But the real question is whether a Z can ever walk out onto the map without muta. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
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Graphix
United States208 Posts
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:59 graNite wrote: terran is the micro rewarding race and with the new medivac and mines you can get evn more out of it. zerg players just need to adjust their play + Show Spoiler + i've always wanted to say sdomething like that again after zerg players told me to adjust to the new queens and infestor changes. Congratulations on being "that" type of poster then? On topic: It'll be ok ret. It may take a few tweaks but they'll get the bunke- burrow tech right and it'll fix the early game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25076 Posts
On April 23 2013 16:05 omnic wrote: Congratulations on being "that" type of poster then? On topic: It'll be ok ret. It may take a few tweaks but they'll get the bunke- burrow tech right and it'll fix the early game. Better 'that type' of poster than the stereotypical whiny Zerg :p | ||
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: wtf is a burrow change. I think blizzard maybe only watches GSL/GSTL because everywhere else terran is raping the shit out of everything, and in Korea the only thing that sometimes works is the same old 2/2 muta ling bane timing lol, and even there terran is dominating overall. Lucifron, Happy, ForGG, Dayshi, Heromarine are all amazing players who deserve to win almost every teamleague and tournament they enter over everybody else. If you watch any of the popular terran streams (Demuslim/Byun/Polt) you simply don't see them lose. wtf is a burrow change seriously Ahah I knew Ret wouldn't like it :D. On the other hand, way too many zergs have qualified for the Ro16, but hopefully with tastosis constant flow of compliments on Innovation, blizzard may think terran is too OP. | ||
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dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
On April 23 2013 16:02 Ghanburighan wrote: I like the idea actually. This will not affect the other races as the only time splash comes into play another race is when you fly phoenix into a z base. And even then bunching them up has no function. But the real question is whether a Z can ever walk out onto the map without muta. Well they can make spores to generate a small circle of creep when planted. But i guess it will be too bigger change... But it definetly will be very fun and exciting thing to try. May be zerg will invent some new crazy strats with spores which don't require creep but generate it instead. Or may be some upgrade in evo which will aloow to plant spores without creep | ||
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On April 23 2013 15:09 TAMinator wrote: *Unit not used enough* Lets buff it ! Seems to be a common trend in blizzard balance schemes. Are you complaining? Even if the only use for it is some quirky roach all-in against Terran, it's still neat. I wouldn't mind seeing a nydus cost reduction, either. Make it so that defensive nyduses are more viable. | ||
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