On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
Have any insight into what exactly they do?
no, thats why I don't offer any.
So you know exactly as much as anyone else, you just decided to be a dick about it? Or is there anything else you're trying to say?
opposing slander is being a dick?
I don't think the OP or the majority of the comments in the thread would classify legally as slander. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. At this point, no one knows. For all we know, Azubu is a massive bitcoin mining operation.
Interesting OP, a lot of information about a company that has a financial impact but which has only one questionable product and murky structure. It's possible that this is deliberate, for various legitimate tax and legal purposes. (Depending on the company structure and location, tax records and SEC filings would shed a lot of light. Given a global headquarters in Germany and an apparently private structure (as opposed to publicly traded entities), I don't know what if any public declarations or filings are required.) There are some things that seem troubling, and there's a vibe similar to one I got when buying from a collectible coin and card store I used to visit. (It kept no transaction records, there was no register or computer, and they gave change from a large, literal "roll" (or "wad") of cash. Their prices were unbeatable. (As they often sold for a loss; when we compared manufacturer to store pricing of Magic cards via a friend that operated a gaming store, their price was exactly what WotC sells direct to stores. No retail markup at all. As far as gold and silver, they remained pretty much in line with spot prices.) And they would hand write a receipt for any amount, no questions asked, as our college SciFi club discovered to our glee. (Made getting reimbursed purchases easier, is all - when there is a per-transaction limit but funds are allocated in larger chunks. Rather than make many repeated trips, make one but with multiple transactions.)
That said, I don't know that Azubu or the store mentioned above are/were doing anything illicit/illegal. It is quite probable that everything is legitimate, and that Azubu is in the early phases of a long term plan which will have a return on investment that justifies the level of murkiness about the company. (A lot of eSports leagues seem to bank on the long term - MLG does well, but the people that invest into it right now are not looking for immediate returns.) And the underlying financials and business plans of companies in eSports are a very frequent topic of discussion - all of us as fans have a vested interest in seeing these enterprises pay off and are successful. We just would like to make sure it's not going to build a bubble and then pop like the housing market.
Of course, that Coin and Collectable shop is closed these days. And a very nice Italian restaurant opened up the next block over. Great food but very low prices. The few times I ate there I think I heard mandolin music.
Honestly, Azubu doesn't bother me as much as Phillip Morrison, Annheuser-Busch, or Brazzers entering eSports sponsorship would. Oh, all three are solid companies, but they have a different public perception. Azubu currently is "Who? What do they do?" while those three all have various vocal detractors for the legal products they offer.
It's Phillip Morris, not Phillip Morrison. Big difference. Morrison was a famous Non-proliferation and Future Warfare scientist and theorist.
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
Have any insight into what exactly they do?
no, thats why I don't offer any.
So you know exactly as much as anyone else, you just decided to be a dick about it? Or is there anything else you're trying to say?
opposing slander is being a dick?
I don't think the OP or the majority of the comments in the thread would classify legally as slander. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. At this point, no one knows. For all we know, Azubu is a massive bitcoin mining operation.
The burden of proof in on the accusing party, therefore it is false.
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
Have any insight into what exactly they do?
no, thats why I don't offer any.
So you know exactly as much as anyone else, you just decided to be a dick about it? Or is there anything else you're trying to say?
opposing slander is being a dick?
I don't think the OP or the majority of the comments in the thread would classify legally as slander. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. At this point, no one knows. For all we know, Azubu is a massive bitcoin mining operation.
The burden of proof in on the accusing party, therefore it is false.
This is a forum man, clearly these are all speculations, its all opinion based, and people are welcome to state their opinion. It is not like any of the comments are representing a big news corporation.
So I actually found another rather funny connection. If you look at azubu.com's whois record it gives "denise@azubu.com" as the administrative contact e-mail address. If you google for that address you land up on the following korean page: http://www.gamejob.co.kr/List_GI/GI_Info_Read.asp?C_ID=gamebook
This obviously seems to be some Korean job market for people from the gaming industry. If you translate the page, it seems that the job offer from denise@azubu.com is on behalf of "GameBook" for "Game North Korea Co., Ltd.", if I interpret it right. After all, might North Korea be the puppet master behind Azubu?
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
Have any insight into what exactly they do?
no, thats why I don't offer any.
So you know exactly as much as anyone else, you just decided to be a dick about it? Or is there anything else you're trying to say?
opposing slander is being a dick?
I don't think the OP or the majority of the comments in the thread would classify legally as slander. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. At this point, no one knows. For all we know, Azubu is a massive bitcoin mining operation.
The burden of proof in on the accusing party, therefore it is false.
It isn't in the UK, burden is on the accused, so Azubu could probably file in London (as an EU company) against the TL EU store or something.
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
Have any insight into what exactly they do?
no, thats why I don't offer any.
So you know exactly as much as anyone else, you just decided to be a dick about it? Or is there anything else you're trying to say?
opposing slander is being a dick?
I don't think the OP or the majority of the comments in the thread would classify legally as slander. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. At this point, no one knows. For all we know, Azubu is a massive bitcoin mining operation.
The burden of proof in on the accusing party, therefore it is false.
It isn't in the UK, burden is on the accused, so Azubu could probably file in London (as an EU company) against the TL EU store or something.
"The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff."
Seems Lars Windhorst is involved, and it doesn't get prettier.
REALLY interesting article.
[Lars Windhorst]'s been managing Sapinda International, a company owned by Robert Hersov. As well as Vatas Holding, owned by Hersov, too. Vatas Holding owned over 8% of Balda AG shares at one point, Balda is a manufacturer of plastic materials and electronic parts. In 2008, Vatas was sentenced to pay EUR29m to Audley Capital, a British hegde fund. In 2009, German Bank NORD/LB sued Vatas for EUR150m, after they were supposedly ordered by Vatas to buy 13 million shares of Balda. Vatas filed for insolvency after this.
[...]
Note that Hersov originates from the owners family of Anglovaal Mining, a South African mining company related to illegal weapon smuggling and bribaries of BAE Systems, a british weapons contractor.
Now that is some really shady stuff right there.
We shouldn't read too much into that. Six degrees of separation and all that. You can easily connect any noteworthy businessman with any other noteworthy (and shady) businessman like that with just a few steps. I think there even used to be a website that did that for you.
Still, great OP! I was having similar thoughts about FXO back then, too.
Agreed. Shadow_Broker (the user on reddit) said Hersov and Lars both showed up at the summer finals tournament of LoL during the prize ceremony, that and the SYSK LTD link as owners of the name Asubu is the only connection. Still trying to find images/video of the award ceremony where both can be seen, or at least Lars Windhorst.
Well here's a highlight video from The Champions 2012 Summer Final. Lars Windhorst and Robert Hersov can be seen from 2:02 to 2:25. They are most definitely related to the company. In what way? Who knows? Only Azubu. XD
Funny side note: During the award ceremony stream chat was going crazy with "who is this guy in the suit" and "guy looks so shady" Not kidding....
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
dude... there seriously is nothing more annoying on the internet than this fucking "hurr durr" shit.
please don't do it again.... ever.
Especially when they add zero insight into the conversation.
because the guy who thinks it's a money laundry based on literally zero evidence is huge insight, right?
pretty disgusting that some people on these forums think by the logic "i have the right to tell all the crap in the world about something i don't know, and HE has to bring the evidence that it isn't true! if you're opposed this, you're a dick!"
does it pain these people to not make an opinion about something they have absolutely no clue about? because that's what is the right choice there. or you know, assume the good, like a good person, and don't start to bash the reputation just because you feel you have the right to do so.
On April 04 2013 08:48 nemonic wrote: So I actually found another rather funny connection. If you look at azubu.com's whois record it gives "denise@azubu.com" as the administrative contact e-mail address. If you google for that address you land up on the following korean page: http://www.gamejob.co.kr/List_GI/GI_Info_Read.asp?C_ID=gamebook
This obviously seems to be some Korean job market for people from the gaming industry. If you translate the page, it seems that the job offer from denise@azubu.com is on behalf of "GameBook" for "Game North Korea Co., Ltd.", if I interpret it right. After all, might North Korea be the puppet master behind Azubu?
I'm guessing google translate? It says "Game Book Korea Co., Ltd".
Not sure where you'd get "north" from.
As for what Gamebook is, it seems to have been a social networking attempt in south korea marketed towards... gamers! It seems to have failed miserably.
Interesting, and definitely worth checking out. Azubu's recent investments in Esports have been huge, and while it might be nice in the short term, it could be dangerous in the long term if this investment isn't sustainable.
Silverio Park from Korea has many dreams. One of them is Berlin's O2 World arena, full of tens of thousands of cheering fans, watching on the stage and on giant screens an exciting online game between two professional player-teams ... And because Silverio Park tends to realize his dreams, it is also this time only a matter of time until the German capital would be packed by a similar wave of enthusiasm for public online game championships as his hometown Seoul.
Mr. Park came to Germany 15 years ago, and studied in Hamburg engineering. He has never regretted this decision, he managed to be well integrated in the Hanseatic city, established many contacts, worked as an interpreter for Korean businessmen. His career led him to KOTRA, the South Korean government's foreign trade and investment promotion agency, and had been working in its German branch for 10 years as a manager. During this time he became acquainted with the system of the German investment and economic promotion, with the predecessor company of GTAI, Invest in Germany, and also worked closely with Berlin Partner, the economic promotion agency of the capital.
“I had already six years ago contact to many German Internet companies, because a lot of Korean companies were interested in cooperating with them" - he says in his Berlin office, high above the city, with a great view of the government district and the famous Berlin skyline. “Korea is a pioneer in the field of online games, and the Koreans discovered social networking much earlier than Facebook. Since a stronghold of the German gaming industry is Hamburg, Koreans were looking there for partners with the help of the Hamburg Economic Development Agency, and attained good contacts to the gaming-cluster "game city: Hamburg." There are many publishers in Germany who buy online gaming licenses from Korea, such as Gameforge in Karlsruhe, which has already an annual turnover of more than 120 million euro.”
In December 2011 Mr. Park founded AZUBU together with a Korean businessman whom he met during his work at KOTRA. They chose Berlin as the location of the company's headquarters, because - as Mr. Park says – here is good, qualified, competent staff to be found, and Berlin also supports IT companies, which makes the capital even more attractive. They have a studio in Korea where the game developers are working, and the Berlin headquarters concentrates on product management, community management, PR, marketing, license purchases, and game-publishing.
When I ask Mr. Park what exactly AZUBU is doing, he stands up and picks up a large picture from the sideboard. There is a huge hall in the picture, full of people, celebrating the online-gamers standing on a podium, in a shower of confetti. "You see? This is an event of the Online Games League in Seoul, with two five-person teams. It was sold out, 17,000 people were in the hall, and we also had a live stream in the Internet. We want to organize such 2-3-hour events in Germany, elsewhere in Europe, also in North America, and establish professional and amateur leagues in different age groups - this work is already underway. We are building a social network for gamers, where fans can exchange information about the specific topics of the gaming world. In our community for example, the gamer, can chat with his own voice, doesn’t need to use the keyboard, because during the game, hands are busy.”
AZUBU Europe AG is currently looking for strategic partners in Europe and elsewhere, in order to realize these great plans. The business prospects of the company are promising: revenues come at a gaming event from tickets, live stream fees, cable television licenses, advertising, and merchandising. AZUBU already has four own highly successful professional gaming teams, and plans to "adopt" more professional teams from North America. AZUBU want to be a “big one” in eSports, in the world of virtual championships.
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
dude... there seriously is nothing more annoying on the internet than this fucking "hurr durr" shit.
please don't do it again.... ever.
Especially when they add zero insight into the conversation.
because the guy who thinks it's a money laundry based on literally zero evidence is huge insight, right?
pretty disgusting that some people on these forums think by the logic "i have the right to tell all the crap in the world about something i don't know, and HE has to bring the evidence that it isn't true! if you're opposed this, you're a dick!"
does it pain these people to not make an opinion about something they have absolutely no clue about? because that's what is the right choice there. or you know, assume the good, like a good person, and don't start to bash the reputation just because you feel you have the right to do so.
Well, I wouldn't call it substantial evidence, but they at least 2 people related to them who have long and chronicled histories of performing "shady business". Leads me to believe that the logic on this forum is just fine.
On April 04 2013 07:24 gosublade wrote: "hurr durr, i dont understand, therefore money laundry durr"
dude... there seriously is nothing more annoying on the internet than this fucking "hurr durr" shit.
please don't do it again.... ever.
Especially when they add zero insight into the conversation.
because the guy who thinks it's a money laundry based on literally zero evidence is huge insight, right?
pretty disgusting that some people on these forums think by the logic "i have the right to tell all the crap in the world about something i don't know, and HE has to bring the evidence that it isn't true! if you're opposed this, you're a dick!"
does it pain these people to not make an opinion about something they have absolutely no clue about? because that's what is the right choice there. or you know, assume the good, like a good person, and don't start to bash the reputation just because you feel you have the right to do so.
Dude I was just pointing out that the guy contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion other than "hurr durrr". I have my own suspicions on where the money is coming from for Azubu and I don't think it has anything to do with money laundering, just for the record.
Just because we can't prove their making money doesn't make them guilty. Until someone comes out says they ain't paying dues then feel its unfair to judge them.
On April 04 2013 09:43 Nerski wrote: I find it sooo funny how much speculation I saw in this thread when it took me a whoopin hour to figure out what it was.
On April 04 2013 09:43 Nerski wrote: I find it sooo funny how much speculation I saw in this thread when it took me a whoopin hour to figure out what it was.
On April 04 2013 09:43 Nerski wrote: I find it sooo funny how much speculation I saw in this thread when it took me a whoopin hour to figure out what it was.
EPT
