EPTBesides these details, why didn't you analyze the removal of the parts of the original trailer involving the freedom of the Zerg? I'm just interested in why.
Heart of the Swarm: An Empire, or a Menace? - Page 10
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Besides these details, why didn't you analyze the removal of the parts of the original trailer involving the freedom of the Zerg? I'm just interested in why. | ||
|
ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
Blizz stories are really just pulp fiction and deserve no further thought for the mature mind. | ||
|
Wyvernspur
Singapore10 Posts
On March 21 2013 06:45 Stratos_speAr wrote: Then you're being willfully delusional. BW may not have been fantastic, but SC2's script is fucking atrocious, and it blows my mind that people think it's comparable. The sheer amount of contradictions, cliches, and cringe-worthy one-liners in the SC2 script makes them borderline impossible to sit through. Compare these, You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities. Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream! A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare. (Zeratul, speaking to Aldaris) You'll regret that. You don't seem to realize my situation here. I will not be stopped. Not by you, or the Confederates, or the Protoss, or anyone! I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me! (Mengsk, speaking to Raynor) I come to you in the wake of recent events to issue a call to reason. Let no human deny the perils of our time. While we battle one another, divided be the petty strife of our common history, the tide of greater conflict is turning against us, threatening to destroy all that we have accomplished. It is time for us as nations and as individuals to set aside our long-standing feuds and unite. The tides of an unwinnable war are upon us and we must seek refuge on higher ground lest we be swept away by the flood. The Confederacy is no more. Whatever semblance of unity and protection it once provided is a phantom... a memory. With our enemies left unchecked, who will you turn to for protection? The devastation wrought by the alien invaders is self-evident. We have seen our homes and villages destroyed by the calculated blows of the Protoss. We have seen first hand our friends and loved ones consumed by the nightmarish Zerg. Unprecedented and unimaginable though they may be, these are the signs of our time. The time has come my fellow Terrans to rally to a new banner. In unity lies strength; already many of the dissident factions have joined us. Out of the many we shall forge an indivisible whole capitulating only to a single throne. And from that throne, I shall watch over you. From this day forward let no human make war upon any other human. Let no Terran agency conspire against this new beginning, and let no man consort with alien powers, and to all the enemies of humanity: seek not to bar our way. For we shall win through, no matter the cost! (Mengsk, Episode I ending cinematic) To this. Gabriel Tosh: You guys did good. Now me and my Spectre's will finish the job. We'll kill Mengsk, and burn his Dominion to the ground. Matt Horner: Overthrowing Mengsk is just the start. This is about building a better tomorrow. Don't you see? We just released every scientist, philosopher and free thinker that ever challenged Mengsks' rule. That was our real victory today. Gabriel Tosh: You really that naive? Tomorrow there'll be a new Mengsk. And another one after that. Your great shining dream of the future is just an illusion. Jim Raynor: So if it's all so bleak, why are you here Tosh? What do you get out of all this? Gabriel Tosh: Same thing as you brother. I don't quit 'till Mengsk is dead Matt Horner: Vengeance doesn't factor into this. Our revolution is about freedom. Jim Raynor: You'll see that better future Matt. [turning to Tosh] Jim Raynor: But it ain't for the likes of us General Warfield: The Xel'Naga artifact's been assembled. I hope to God it does what we think it does. Tychus Findlay: Damn straight. Bettin' our asses on some alien piece of crap don't sit right with me. Jim Raynor: I hear ya, Tychus. But I was bankin' everything on that I'd be quit already. 'Cause here we are in the mouth of hell, an' we made it this far by leanin' on each other. General Warfield: Whether it's blind luck or damn-fool courage - in all my years, I've never seen anything like what you two jokers have pulled off. Jim Raynor: That thing may be the key to stopping the Queen of Blades - but it's our sweat and blood that'll make it happen. After everything we've been through, past all the fire and fury... the one thing I know - is that we can count on each other to get the job done. Or die trying, if that's what it takes. Jim Raynor: [It stops raining and everyone is bathed in sunlight] ... because some things are just worth fighting for. Kate Lockwell: Sir, do you still stand by the sentiment that selfless devotion to the people is the basis of your rule? Arcturus Mengsk: Well, of course! I was called upon to serve the greater interest of humanity! Personal power was never my goal! Kate Lockwell: Then how would you characterize this statement? Arcturus Mengsk: [recording] ... I will not be stopped. Not by you or the Confederates or the protoss or anyone! I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me... Arcturus Mengsk: I... I won't STAND for this! You jackals think you can come in here and question ME? This interview is OVER! Zeratul: The final piece of the prophecy. It speaks of one who shall "... break the cycle of the gods..." Karass: Most ominous. But if the Queen of Blades seeks this prophecy, we must keep it from her. Zeratul: The rest is obscured... what? Sarah Kerrigan: You might peel away the prophecy's layers, Zeratul - but you cannot outrun the doom that awaits us all! [Kerrigan's minions unburrow] Zeratul: We cannot prevail against so many! Karass: I will stand against the Queen of Blades while you escape with the fragments! Zeratul: I will not abandon you! Karass: This prophecy is more important than either of us! Reveal its secrets, Zeratul! The future rests on it! Tassadar: Greetings, brother. I speak to you... from the Beyond. Zeratul: Tassadar! But... you died... slaying this cursed Overmind! Tassadar: I have never tasted death, Zeratul - nor shall I. But that is a tale for another time. I have come to tell you of this creature's... courage. Zeratul: Courage? It was an abomination! Tassadar: Not always. The zerg were... altered. A single over-riding purpose was forced upon them: the destruction of our people. The Overmind was formed with thought and reason... but not free will. It screamed and raged within the prison of its own mind. Zeratul: Who did this? Why? Tassadar: I know not. But the Overmind found a way to resist its all-consuming directive. It created a chance... a hope of salvation. The Queen of Blades. Zeratul: Madness! Tassadar: Only she can free the zerg from slavery - and in so doing, save all that is... from the flame. Zeratul: I do not understand, brother. Tassadar: Forget what you know, Zeratul. The Overmind saw a vision... the end of all things. And now you must see it too. Zeratul: No! This vision! I cannot bear it, stop! I mean really, COME ON. If you try to tell me that the SC2 script is better than the SC/BW one, then I'm sorry, but you're just objectively wrong. Just copy/pasting that brought back how pissed off I am at how terrible WoL was. This. A hundred times this. People should at least replay SC1/BW (just rush through with cheat codes if you're impatient) before throwing out the 'nostalgia' argument. | ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
| ||
|
Tedde93
Sweden169 Posts
| ||
|
omgimonfire15
United States233 Posts
On March 21 2013 06:26 Stratos_speAr wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 05:35 papalion wrote: Thank you for your very long insight. Although I'd rather see it as an outsight. So, could you please define "mature" in this context? What is a mature story? Romeo and Juliet, where two teenagers from rivaling clans fall in love with each other? What about Faust, where the Devil is betting with God on a guy who thinks is really clever? Or Don Quijote, a crazy nobleman who is travelling through a post-mediaeval spanish region, thinking he is a knight? All these, and I can bring up dozens of more stories if you wish, have extreme simple plots at first. Even more, I claim those stories are only successful because their protagonists behave romantic, which in essence is childish. To summarize, I do not know a "mature story", because there are only successful stories that are not mature. Well-written, or well-narrated stories with extreme childish plots. To span the arc to SC: The SC story was never ever in range of the examples above. Also in my opinion the BW story was the worst part of the SC universe that was made. Feel free to hate me now for killing your sacred cow, but if you look at all parts of SC, the development from SC to BW is confusing, narrow, far-fetched, and, sorry, childish. Look at those things you yourself point out, all those dialogue examples lead to this point. But I really enjoyed it, with one exception: The UED, the reasons for this have been pointed out a lot of times before. Now to SC2: Raynor and Kerrigan both act sometimes like children, you are right. But it makes sense. If you think about it and throw away your nostalgia, they do not act like grown-ups, as you say, no, they don't. Why is this bad? Literature is full of similar behaviour. Stories start to become interesting when people behave like this. Also you say there are some things in the SC2 story that are not made clear in BW or new or transformed characters that do not make sense. OK? Could you point out the problem with this? Is Frodo a far-fetched character, because Tolkien did not mention him in The Hobbit? Let us stay with Middle Earth: Is The One Ring a strange, idiotic, or even scary transformation from the simple magic item in The Hobbit? Not to me, because it is a sequel! In my opinion you are missing some crucial points, and forget to compare the story to other stories. I also played Blizzard RTS games from the beginning, from WC: Orcs and Human to HotS. So I feel free to say: Stop poking meee! In other words: No matter how elabourated your post is, a lot of other people on this forum who share your opinion like to make us, who like the story, feel bad. Also, I do not like Game Of Thrones, although I like Lena Headey and Sibel Kekili. No matter how I disagree with you, I thank you for your long and interesting post. You completely missed the point in every possible way. The problem isn't using cliche plot points or whatever. The problem is made up of two things. 1) Consistency. Adding new things in sequels is fine (like your LotR example). The problem is that SC2, when compared to SC/BW, contradicts what was previously established and/or acts like something was previously established when it clearly was not. Romantic stories are fine. Romantic stories randomly thrown in that radically change and retcon everything about the established lore and universe are not. 2) Presentation. Again, it's perfectly fine to have romantic characters. The problem is when the presentation is incredibly poor. HotS's script is painfully cliche; full of one-liners that the writers want to be memorable, but instead they come across as incredibly fake, convoluted, and obnoxious. Everything down to Izsha's script during your missions sounded incredibly awkward. It's one thing to use eloquent language that humans never do when you're in a far-passed medieval time or are a different species (such as the Protoss or the Overmind + Cerebrates), but pretty much every character in WoL/HotS (including Kerrigan) is (at least primarily) human, and they talk in a dialect that is very comparable to ours. Using trashy Hollywood-esque one-liners and awkward sentences doesn't cut it in terms of the script. This time 100. In my opinion, all the basic plots were pretty average yet interesting. The execution was flawed however in SC2. In my opinion, there aren't a lot of plot holes, but a lot of incredibly convoluted and complex things that we either have to work out on our own or assume. For instance, at first glance, Zerus is a plot hole due to its distance, landscape, and inhabitants. However, one can work out in a very convoluted way why things are the way they are. This may work, but it is not ideal, you want clear and simple connections rather than'oh worlds change in time due to x and y' or assumptions like 'oh maybe technology is better'. I don't have a problem with Kerrigan seeking power to kill Mengsk. Its like the same as old SC, join rebels to beat the dominion. The execution though was lacking. | ||
|
xpldngmn
Austria264 Posts
I liked the gameplay, although it felt dumbed down and all those choices were not BIG or influental choices. Viper or Broodlord? Zerus or Char? (don't remember the planets' order correctly, please excuse, point still stands). I got the "this is D3!!"-feeling quite often as well. Lvling, chosing skills/mutations... Pseudo-choices. I like to have some RPG elements in a strategy game, but it was way better in WC3 than in HOTS. Maybe I'm just idealizing the past... + Show Spoiler + Nelson Muntz' "HA-Haw!" at all those who think Mengsk is really dead :D | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
| ||
|
Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
| ||
|
fezvez
France3021 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:25 ElMeanYo wrote: While I appreciate the OP for the time it must have took to write this post, I can't help but feel he is trying to analyze the subtle textures, aromas and flavors of a McDonalds hamburger. His time might be better spent summarizing his thoughts on some of the great literary classics like LOTR, War and Peace, Anna Karenina, etc. Blizz stories are really just pulp fiction and deserve no further thought for the mature mind. I unfortunately agree with what is said here. I (painfully) read through the wall of text. Basically, I agreed on almost all points, but the reading was still painful. Probably because the base material that is studied is so intrinsically basic. | ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
If Valve and Riot both decided to make an RTS to rival Blizzard I'm pretty sure at least one of them would be a superior multiplayer experience. | ||
|
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
On March 21 2013 09:03 disciple wrote: bioware should make the single player of void and blizzard the multi Imagine if the HotS ending had a green tint, so awesome  | ||
|
tuho12345
4482 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:47 Tedde93 wrote: If you play a game for the story you might aswell go read a book, since a books story is almost always going to be better than that of a game, since the story in a game pretty much always has to make sacrifices for gameplay. and why can't we have good story in the game? Some games have great storyline and script and SC2/D3 are just terrible at it. | ||
InsidiA
Canada1169 Posts
| ||
|
Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
SC1/BW Raynor: "Kerrigan i'm going to kill you if it's the last thing I do!" WoL Raynor " Sarahhhhhh i luvvvvv youuuuuu" Me"What the..." Kerrigan" I'm going to destroy the universe" Me"Well... k..." HotS Kerrigan" I luvvvvvv youuuuuu Jimmmmmm" Raynor " I luvvvv youuuuuu toooooo" Me "Alright wtf is with this" Your description of SC1/BW to SC2 Words I could never hope to have that describe my confusion and disappointment of the SC universe better than I could imagine. Story line aside, the gameplay is quite fun even if I was playing against belial at one point. | ||
|
Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
| ||
|
MShaw006
United States74 Posts
| ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:38 Grumbels wrote: Anyone knows of a good criticism of the Diablo III story, similarly comprehensive to the OP of this thread? I personally never understood why that game's story received so much hate, especially since nobody I encounter can articulate what they dislike about it, but I'm open to other perspectives. Very similar to SC2's problems. The script was complete and utter trash in every way. The villains are entirely one dimensional and have childish supervillain scripts. The plot is full of massive holes and is also predictable and so cheesy that it will give your 55 year-old obese father a heart attack. | ||
|
Nerski
United States1095 Posts
I would say however, that it is 'too bad' that no developer can seem to do both. Make a game that in itself is amazing to play, and also put in a story that is absolutely riveting and makes sense from point A to B. I think a great contrasting example to HoTS is SWOTOR, the story telling in that game and leveling experience for an MMO was 2nd to none. The game play however was terrible, and for that reason I no longer play the game. | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
| ||
| ||
