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On March 19 2013 13:33 Fionn wrote:
I don't buy the whole it was just a regular LCS day/exhibition tournament thing and that it doesn't mean much SC2 beat it.
I'm sure a regular TSM game would get more viewers than a major final with two Korean LoL teams.
There weren't many good matches though. It's not like it was CLG vs TSM, or Curse vs TSM, or maybe Gambit Gaming vs TSM. It was TSM vs shitter teams. I think there's a significant overlap in viewers between LoL and SC2. If LoL games are going to be one-sided stomps, then might as well watch SC2.
Besides, Curse is the new TSM.
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On March 19 2013 14:36 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:32 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.
A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.
And that's pretty much about it. Get off the TL sc2 forums if you don't have fun. Me And millions of others enjoy it, noone forces you to play it. I literally don't get how people like you don't have something better to do than whine about a game you admit yourself you don't like How about you drop the personal attacks. Did I say I feel it's not fun to play? I was just suggesting there are not a lot of people feel it's fun to play and that's why it's not taking off in Korea, China, etc. Many other people have suggested similar arguments in this thread as well.
I think that in general playing a game with people is more fun than playing a game alone. Think of MMOs or online shooters, etc. Currently, SC2 isn't really there for the cooperative aspect (2v2s, 3v3s, 4v4s, or customs). The competitive scene focuses on 1v1s and the custom game scene isn't what it was in BW. I'd argue that's why SC2 doesn't "feel" as fun to play--the social aspect is just not there. Contrast that with League of Legends where you can play as a group of 5 people all on TeamSpeak or Skype and well.. that's probably why a casual player might be more attracted to that game.
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On March 19 2013 08:43 yoshi245 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 08:37 Toxi78 wrote:On March 19 2013 08:35 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 08:31 Fionn wrote:On March 19 2013 08:28 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 08:23 Fionn wrote:On March 19 2013 08:05 ZeroCartin wrote:
Im actually really interested in this as well. I read that HotS went back to the top 10 of most played PC games in PC Bangs from a reddit source i believe It's out of the top 10 currently. But MLG was one of the most searched items on Naver yesterday. I think we'll see how big HotS is or the excitement for it is on the night the Gangnam GOM studios open. See how many people show up for that. Could you link to the site that has the top 25 games? I'd like to revisit in the future http://gametrics.com/ #10 is Frozen Thrones? O.o and #6 is broodwar. i would have never expected such ranking actually, i always thought sc2 was quite big in korea, but it doesn't seem to be the case? SC2 was never big in Korea. Yes there's a fanbase and a following, but in a sense, it's fueled by die hard fans of KESPA players and some eSF players. Main reason why older games like BW and others are high on that list is their availability, they are cheaper if not free, also explains why free games like LoL do so well. More casual friendly too. The only way Blizzard can really make SC2 stay as a very popular game in Korea is to make a MP version of it free, adding LAN support wouldn't hurt either (dare I say, it should be required). That would make it very popular in PC Bangs, and many more casuals will come into the game that way. But they won't - it affects the bottom line too much.
Amm fixing the arcade would probably do more. You are overestimating the korean gamers most of them are very casual and probably play UMS... With the horribly designed arcade you can't do the same...
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woah i was so happy when i saw war3 in the top 10 but then i remembered it's probably just people playing dota =/
war3 will probably be my favorite RTS for all time. sc2 isn't bad though. diablo 3, on the other hand, is a horrible game and i'm surprised it's so high up in the rankings.
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On March 19 2013 15:29 Schelim wrote:
woah i was so happy when i saw war3 in the top 10 but then i remembered it's probably just people playing dota =/
war3 will probably be my favorite RTS for all time. sc2 isn't bad though. diablo 3, on the other hand, is a horrible game and i'm surprised it's so high up in the rankings.
People don't play Dota in Korea. They don't even know what it is unless they've lived overseas..
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On March 19 2013 09:49 DoA wrote:Just based on what I've observed here I'd say HotS has been definitely better-received than WoL. These are a couple pictures I took at the launch party here in Seoul. I've seen more people playing it in PC Bangs recently and although it is true that PC Bang stats might not be the best litmus test for gauging popularity, it's still something to pay attention to. The real test is going to be seeing how many fans show up to events once the GSL, etc start rolling again. I personally think the scene is in for some good times with HotS. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iGLGFKp.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sM569VM.jpg) Ultimately though I doubt that SC2 is ever going to be as popular as BW was here in Korea. The initial SC2 launch was rough due to various reasons and in that chaos other games stepped in and filled the gaps that were missing in terms of esports popularity. I'm not just talking LoL either. Other games like Sudden Attack, etc have their fan bases too. I do think though that people care too much about SC2's popularity in Korea. Think about how MLG did this last weekend in viewer numbers. We've had huge turnouts for EU events recently too. At the end of the day we need to realize that Korea's a pretty small part of the SC2 fan base overall and we don't necessarily need the game to be wildly popular here to have it be successful elsewhere. So don't worry about it too much. TLDR: SC2 isn't as huge in Korea as we'd like yet, but it actually doesn't matter as much as people think it does in the grand scheme of things.
I cannot believe this post has not been quoted more often. It needs to be, Doa you the man!
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Colombia1747 Posts
For example look at a game like Chess... It doesn't have huge viewer numbers, very few people play chess regularly and still there's a ton of money in that "industry"
No, it's not. the prize pool is so low, and the tournaments have a fee inscription. so few people can live of play chess.
more spectators = more sponsors = more people who can play an live of play.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I think it's hilarious when people say "Let's admit it" about something and then proceed to post their own opinions on why something is bad.
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For PC bangs:
SC2 was at around #20-21 before HOTS, after the release it went as high as 9th on the 2nd day of release..
It's fallen to 14th as of today. Will probably continue to slip a bit more until a small bump when proleague starts again. I'm guessing it will rest around #16-17 after a few months.
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LOL broodwar at #6 and SC2 is not in top 10.
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Id love to see Hots being popular in Korea, and the world lol, not just Korea.
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On March 19 2013 16:30 illidanx wrote:
LOL broodwar at #6 and SC2 is not in top 10.
Why would that be funny? Brood War should be higher or what?
I think BW used to be 8th with 3.4% share so I guess this is a positive thing.
EDIT: Its 3.55% now, at least its stable
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On March 19 2013 14:34 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:25 Clefairy wrote:
BW is popular because it actually has custom games. Starcraft 2 will never match it because the custom game system or "Arcade" is still so terrible in HotS. Stop this BS. BW's custom game is not even as good as arcade.
It's a lot easier to use and therefore better for the purpose. My brother does some simple programing and web design and he's said he'd go program for money in his free time rather than make a SC2 map. When we played Broodwar he was making bounds, tug of wars, etc and playing with our friends. When he was 9 years old he made a nice, simple, but very fun bound map with ~20 creatively designed levels.
Now, he's 20 and the SC2 editor is too complicated for him to build maps with as a hobby. We also made a WC3 map back in the day (I hope I still have a USB with it somewhere, I was quite proud of it back then). While it was more difficult, it's nothing compared to the difficulty of a SC2 map.
Map makers could pump out great maps like EotA, ToB, enfo's, dbz, survival, tag, any arena/td map, etc in WC3 at incredible speeds. In SC2, you're essentially asking someone who is skilled enough to build quality cell phone/browser games to use your platform because of its superior graphics and processing power on the devices that will be running the maps in exchange for the $$$ you could possibly be earning from other platforms.
Just check some of the old modeling/map making sites. There were some 14 year olds on them. As far as SC2 goes, it's too difficult for the average 14 year old to jump aboard and become a useful member of your team.
It'll go a long way to bringing more people aboard. It can't be compared to say LoL as a measure of success. Many people get bored of games. LoL isn't successful because it's super-super addictive fun and nobody quits. LoL is successful because they can get people through the door, then they can replace the ones that leave with new people at a good rate. Being a free game helps.
BW was popular for different reasons. There were tons of custom games and one could just go play another. It was like a whole platform onto itself. As a child, I've bought at most 10 games. BW, D2, and WC3 took up most of my play time. Brood War never got as many people as LoL did through the door.
SC2 can't bring people through the door as fast as LoL, as it costs money. It also can't replace the ones that leave nearly anywhere near as well because the customs are extremely limited and people get bored of the de facto game mode faster than new buyers trickle into an old game.
SC2/BW relies on player retention, LoL relies more on broadening its audience. Helping custom games would increase SC2's player retention.
My attention wasn't caught nearly as much by SC2 as it was by BW. I never needed a new game when I was playing BW. I could always play customs. When I finally got bored of years of customs I switched to Diablo 2. I switched back about 1.5 years later and found tons of new customs.
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On March 19 2013 17:18 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:34 Wildmoon wrote:On March 19 2013 14:25 Clefairy wrote:
BW is popular because it actually has custom games. Starcraft 2 will never match it because the custom game system or "Arcade" is still so terrible in HotS. Stop this BS. BW's custom game is not even as good as arcade. It's a lot easier to use and therefore better for the purpose. My brother does some simple programing and web design and he's said he'd go program for money in his free time rather than make a SC2 map. When we played Broodwar he was making bounds, tug of wars, etc and playing with our friends. When he was 9 years old he made a nice, simple, but very fun bound map with ~20 creatively designed levels. Now, he's 20 and the SC2 editor is too complicated for him to build maps with as a hobby. We also made a WC3 map back in the day (I hope I still have a USB with it somewhere, I was quite proud of it back then). While it was more difficult, it's nothing compared to the difficulty of a SC2 map. Map makers could pump out great maps like EotA, ToB, enfo's, dbz, survival, tag, any arena/td map, etc in WC3 at incredible speeds. In SC2, you're essentially asking someone who is skilled enough to build quality cell phone/browser games to use your platform because of its superior graphics and processing power on the devices that will be running the maps in exchange for the $$$ you could possibly be earning from other platforms. Just check some of the old modeling/map making sites. There were some 14 year olds on them. As far as SC2 goes, it's too difficult for the average 14 year old to jump aboard and become a useful member of your team.
Snaps someone gets it. The same maps you play today in Arcade are the same games that you played 2 years ago in WoL.
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On March 19 2013 09:32 FromShouri wrote:
I could see War 3/BW in top 10, But Diablo 3?!?!? That is surprising.
Since release D3 has been improved a lot. It is really good right now. Plus D3 is a PC-Bang-type game due to teamwork (as well as LoL and dota in WC3).
HoTS is not a PC-Bang-type game due to its 1v1 nature. SC:BW is an exception in PC-Bangs because it's Korea 
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
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On March 19 2013 17:33 Alex1Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:32 FromShouri wrote:
I could see War 3/BW in top 10, But Diablo 3?!?!? That is surprising. Since release D3 has been improved a lot. It is really good right now. Plus D3 is a PC-Bang-type game due to teamwork (as well as LoL and dota in WC3). HoTS is not a PC-Bang-type game due to its 1v1 nature. SC:BW is an exception in PC-Bangs because it's Korea
Just logged onto D3 to see how many people are online. 1500 open games... yeah, if that's worldwide...
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On March 19 2013 08:02 Klipsys wrote:
How HOTS is being received overall in Korea?
Are people starting to see it as a true BW successor?
Is it being played in PC Bangs? (More so than WOL?)
What do they have to say about MLG Winter?
response to bold questions:
1. On the whole, no. The BW crowd have either moved on to other non-rts games or just play less. I've yet to meet someone who played BW a lot then make a permanent shift to SC2. Something I have noticed is that those who do play SC2 in pc bangs now seem to be a lot younger. Also, a lot of my friends who followed pro-gaming (generally more casual than the avg TL.netter) lost interest in e-sports after kespa made the switch to SC2. None of them knew about MLG winter, let alone the fact that flash was playing in the finals lol.
2. I see it being played rarely, as was the case with WOL. LoL, D3 and mmorpg's are definitely the most popular games being played still.
Not entirely sure why so many people are interested in what Koreans think of the game. For the sake of the growth of e-sports, I'd rather see the rest of the world view it as a competitive e-sports game instead of it just being a niche thing a small country and a handful of "foreigners" enjoy.
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I just don't think RTS will ever score big again, the genre is dying out compared to more relaxed MOBA, MMORPGs etc. BW is still having it's loyal following because of it's legendary status but any other RTS just won't do well..
Perhaps if sc2 was just an updated clone of bw it would have done better in Korea but awful in the rest of the world. Still can't really deny BW is just the better design and sc2 will probably won't get close because of blizzard's lack of design talent for it's latest games
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United Kingdom12055 Posts
Considering StarCraft 2 is probably 5 times more popular outside of Korea than Broodwar was, I'd say even though the Korean market may be smaller, as long as viewer numbers keep up like they have been there will always be tournaments for the pros to play and show their skill and earn some money. That's what matters to me atleast, where the tournaments are hosted means pretty much nothing.
Especially when you look at the skill levels of the players at MLG. As long as Kespa let their players play outside of Korea from now on, there's always going to be added viewers for tournaments like MLG, Dreamhack etc. etc.
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On March 19 2013 17:48 EpiK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 08:02 Klipsys wrote:
How HOTS is being received overall in Korea?
Are people starting to see it as a true BW successor?
Is it being played in PC Bangs? (More so than WOL?)
What do they have to say about MLG Winter?
response to bold questions: 1. On the whole, no. The BW crowd have either moved on to other non-rts games or just play less. I've yet to meet someone who played BW a lot then make a permanent shift to SC2. Something I have noticed is that those who do play SC2 in pc bangs now seem to be a lot younger. Also, a lot of my friends who followed pro-gaming (generally more casual than the avg TL.netter) lost interest in e-sports after kespa made the switch to SC2. None of them knew about MLG winter, let alone the fact that flash was playing in the finals lol. 2. I see it being played rarely, as was the case with WOL. LoL, D3 and mmorpg's are definitely the most popular games being played still. Not entirely sure why so many people are interested in what Koreans think of the game. For the sake of the growth of e-sports, I'd rather see the rest of the world view it as a competitive e-sports game instead of it just being a niche thing a small country and a handful of "foreigners" enjoy.
What about the SSL. I know it's pretty unknown, but do you think there is potential for growth?
I mean quiet a few skilled ex-pros are playing (Sea, Shuttle, Ssak, Hiya etc etc)
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EPT
