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On March 19 2013 08:57 YyapSsap wrote:
SC2:WoL i.e. blizzard killed itself in the korean market even before it launched mainly due to the Kespa vs Blizzard/GOM deal. If they worked out the differences and OGN + co naturally transitioned into SC2 without the factions (it would've been on national TV also), the impact it would've been huge in a positive way especially when nada and boxer was still active players. The broadcasting deal to GOM along with blizzard pulling the plug off BW out of nowhere and hence the negative press killed the potential korean market. It pretty much gave way for LoL.
I don't know about HOTS but the traction is slowly building.. although its no where near popular as LoL.
I also tend to think that they should of retained the english names for the units instead of the korean ones because it also alienated alot of the original fanbase (even the casters have a hard time getting accustomed to the new korean names even now).
Blizzard loyally screwed up here and simply did not have the right "vision".
Kespa's stances were silly, Blizzard was more than right not to listen to them.
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ah, the list was depressing to see
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I don't think "denizen" is used that way... do you mean netizen or just 'Korean'?
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On March 19 2013 09:00 braller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 08:57 YyapSsap wrote:
SC2:WoL i.e. blizzard killed itself in the korean market even before it launched mainly due to the Kespa vs Blizzard/GOM deal. If they worked out the differences and OGN + co naturally transitioned into SC2 without the factions (it would've been on national TV also), the impact it would've been huge in a positive way especially when nada and boxer was still active players. The broadcasting deal to GOM along with blizzard pulling the plug off BW out of nowhere and hence the negative press killed the potential korean market. It pretty much gave way for LoL.
I don't know about HOTS but the traction is slowly building.. although its no where near popular as LoL.
I also tend to think that they should of retained the english names for the units instead of the korean ones because it also alienated alot of the original fanbase (even the casters have a hard time getting accustomed to the new korean names even now).
Blizzard loyally screwed up here and simply did not have the right "vision". Kespa's stances were silly, Blizzard was more than right not to listen to them.
We all know Kespa is one frustrating organisation but they are one of the reasons why BW lived for so long. Theres always pros next to cons.
I'm sorry but Blizzard's stance to the situation is what killed the SC2 momentum in Korea even before the game took off especially when Blizzard came outta no where with the whole legal action on BW when they could have done this FAR sooner.
Yes and I am Korean and this was the general view of why SC2 just didn't work out and why people were disinterested from the beginning. I swear a smooth transition could have reaped great results.. but they shot their own foot by entering the korean market with the wrong mindset.
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United States23455 Posts
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.
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On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.
This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall.
Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.
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On March 19 2013 09:09 YyapSsap wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:00 braller wrote:On March 19 2013 08:57 YyapSsap wrote:
SC2:WoL i.e. blizzard killed itself in the korean market even before it launched mainly due to the Kespa vs Blizzard/GOM deal. If they worked out the differences and OGN + co naturally transitioned into SC2 without the factions (it would've been on national TV also), the impact it would've been huge in a positive way especially when nada and boxer was still active players. The broadcasting deal to GOM along with blizzard pulling the plug off BW out of nowhere and hence the negative press killed the potential korean market. It pretty much gave way for LoL.
I don't know about HOTS but the traction is slowly building.. although its no where near popular as LoL.
I also tend to think that they should of retained the english names for the units instead of the korean ones because it also alienated alot of the original fanbase (even the casters have a hard time getting accustomed to the new korean names even now).
Blizzard loyally screwed up here and simply did not have the right "vision". Kespa's stances were silly, Blizzard was more than right not to listen to them. We all know Kespa is one frustrating organisation but they are one of the reasons why BW lived for so long. Theres always pros next to cons. I'm sorry but Blizzard's stance to the situation is what killed the SC2 momentum in Korea even before the game took off especially when Blizzard came outta no where with the whole legal action on BW when they could have done this FAR sooner. Yes and I am Korean and this was the general view of why SC2 just didn't work out and why people were disinterested from the beginning. I swear a smooth transition could have reaped great results.. but they shot their own foot by entering the korean market with the wrong mindset.
A lack of respect towards the chaebol oligarchs that run the country?
Getting shades of Milkis :p
That probably hurt the marketing to a degree but it's hard to see that as the dominant reason.
There's a story to be made about system compatibility, lan center availability and the unique circumstances surrounding BW's success.
Then ofc the actual game play was definitely inferior for the first few months. We had babybit and balance bugs from the beta. It was natural it was going to take time for that to sort out...
Best way to answer the question would be to figure out why LoL dominated. To do that though, it would require knowledge about WC3 and MOBA in korea pre-LoL.
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On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.
I would argue that the popularity of a game in PC bang is a good telling on the general popularity of a game. Many kids come out of school or hagwons to play in PC bangs to play with friends or to avoid the eyes of their parents while gaming.
PC bang gaming is a form of social activity that is representative of how strong a game is for the casual base.
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On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.
I think the LoL event at MLG was some sort of exhibition with college teams and a small tourney for 4 professional teams or something, cannot really compare them. All I know is KT Rolster did win the LoL pro event :-)
(disclaimer: I obviously don't play LoL or watch streams, just occasionally checking out results now some Korean teams are also competing).
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On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.
First real HotS Tournaments. and it was just another random day for LoL and HotS could barely beat it sometimes. not even for long.
If they keep the numbers in like 5 6 months u could say it's going well but so far just expansion hype.
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WC3....china dudes. Lotta chinese people play TFT still. It's huge there.
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I could see War 3/BW in top 10, But Diablo 3?!?!? That is surprising.
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Yea it sucks that BW fell all the way down to 6. If BW were to go back on TV I'd bet it would be #2 behind LoL only.
Quite a tell that SC2 is on TV and yet it isn't even top 10.
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On March 19 2013 09:24 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik. First real HotS Tournaments. and it was just another random day for LoL and HotS could barely beat it sometimes. not even for long. If they keep the numbers in like 5 6 months u could say it's going well but so far just expansion hype.
You're right about knowing better in 5-6 months. But Stream numbers across the board for SC2 are up. Just looking now, Idra has over 10k and WhiteRa just under 5k. The thread on stream numbers hasn't shown 10k in a pretty long time. (not to derail the thread) I'm really curious to see an update to those numbers in a month or two.
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Aside from the availability of BW versus SC2, I think that Koreans enjoy the gameplay of BW more. It involves more individual micro instead of mass versus mass. Basically, most people who have been around the BW age love their mechanical play. Furthermore, it is very easy for spectators to see this individual micro that happens in BW games; this is considerably less so in SC2.
It is kind of like American style baseball (homeruns etc) versus Asian/Japanese baseball ("smallball", more technical).
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On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.
Only for periods, overall I think LoL had viewers for more total minutes than sc2. Also I sincerily doubt many koreans watch MLG. I have absolutely nothing to support this assumption, but that's just what I think.
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On March 19 2013 09:22 ktimekiller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. I would argue that the popularity of a game in PC bang is a good telling on the general popularity of a game. Many kids come out of school or hagwons to play in PC bangs to play with friends or to avoid the eyes of their parents while gaming. PC bang gaming is a form of social activity that is representative of how strong a game is for the casual base.
The problem with the PC Bang demographic is that it's a group that's already paying fees just to use the machine, and the PC Bangs themselves don't want to pay more than they have to when installing games.
Hence why the most popular games will always be F2P (like LoL) or require a single disc for install and no further payments.
The exception being MMORPGs, namely the ones that have the "addictive" gameplay mechanics and require almost daily interaction from players.
On March 19 2013 09:33 fabiano wrote:
Yea it sucks that BW fell all the way down to 6. If BW were to go back on TV I'd bet it would be #2 behind LoL only.
Quite a tell that SC2 is on TV and yet it isn't even top 10.
SC2 isn't on TV.
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I'm pretty sure LoL is more popular because it's free and that's it. Reading into stuff like the KeSPA vs. GOM thing or Koreans apparently hating SC2's gameplay is silly, putting words into people's mouths, and overcomplicating it.
Korea is one of the capitals of free to play. Why else do you think hundreds of those FTP anime MMOs come out of Korea each year, specifically? They just lap it up. LoL is good and free, therefore it's extremely successful. SC2 is good but not free, so it's not. It's also cheaper for the PC Bangs as well, so it's more widely available.
Can you name any other non-FTP e-sports that are massive in korea? I can't. The cost is a much bigger issue than the gameplay, and it always will be to koreans.
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On March 19 2013 09:40 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik. Only for periods, overall I think LoL had viewers for more total minutes than sc2. Also I sincerily doubt many koreans watch MLG. I have absolutely nothing to support this assumption, but that's just what I think.
Well, MLG became the 6th most searched item on that Korean webcrawler, so I think talking about MLG stream numbers, especially SC2 vs. LoL is relevant.
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EPT
