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On March 19 2013 09:24 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall. Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik. First real HotS Tournaments. and it was just another random day for LoL and HotS could barely beat it sometimes. not even for long. If they keep the numbers in like 5 6 months u could say it's going well but so far just expansion hype.
You guys also have to remember that so many more people play LoL.
The fact the we can beat it or even be even in numbers should be considered incredible in my opinion.
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Look at the jump between first and second on the chart- LOL is just crushing at the moment.
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"Winning" in popularity against LoL is not really a worthwhile expectation to have. What's the stake in it, anyway? Heart of the Swarm can be very successful without being as successful as LoL. For instance the NFL is vastly, VASTLY more popular than other sports here in the USA, but that has nothing to do with whether those sports are successful or cool or anything else.
League of Legends is probably the single biggest game in existence outside of maybe some Facebook games, by the way. If you believe Riot, it's bigger than Call of Duty worldwide by quite a bit. Why bother yourself with how it's doing compared to Heart of the Swarm?
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Seeing Sudden Attack on that list is cool. I love that game. Favorite FPS by a mile! And like Turgid said. Who cares if SC2 beats LoL viewership. I watch both, and enjoy both. I couldn't care less about which is beating which.
Also, I think HotS will increase SC2 playership by quite a bit in Korea. Who knows by how much though.
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Games are social activities. You want games that you can play with as many friends as possible especially if you go together with your friends to a PC Bang after school.
SC2 doesn't really offer that because the main attraction of SC2 is the 1v1. Let's say you go as a group of 5 to a PC Bang or so, you would want to play a game where everyone can play with each other together at the same time. SC2 can't offer that while LoL, Sudden Attack, MMOs can.
In wc3 and bw, this problem was alleviated because of the good custom games. But now these custom games have become a fully supported game with developers supports. Not sure if SC2 can still make a comeback even if the custom games are improved. The map editor, bnet and map creators really have to make something very engaging for SC2 to ever be popular in PC Bangs imo.
I will just politely disagree with that. Playing in PCBang with friends, either 1v1, 2v2 3v3, is a lot of fun. Even laddering next to each other is fun since you can: complain and rage, get advise, be coached live, and just reduce the hard-feeling of it being with your friends.
It is just one way to look at it. Korean like online/social game more (in comparison to let's say japanes players). PCBang however, is not primarily for social interaction, it is a 24h/7 service access to internet and any online game (even if you didnt buy an official character from bliz for example), that is cheap and let you play as much as you want.
Most people going there are just transferring their life into the internet games, just like older range of people would spend their time in bars or gambling saloon. Now we need real stats to talk more about trends and why would Koreans not be interested in playing more SC2 yet.
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On March 19 2013 11:45 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:24 Scarecrow wrote:On March 19 2013 11:08 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.
SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game. Can somebody explain why that is? Maybe not "social" enough? Like you don't go to play SC2 in a PC Bang to play with your buddy. Technical requirements? I don't really know how PC Bangs work :p SC2 isn't free and the custom game system is still somehow inferior to a 10+ year old game. Custom games are where BW on a casual level really took off. People should really stop suggesting the cause of SC2's unpopularity is not good custom game system. And people need to stop suggesting BW's rise is because of its awesome custom game system 10 years ago, there were just not that many options for gaming while now you really don't need to play the SC2 custom games for causality. Even if the SC2's custom game system is more awesome than BW, it still will not generate its popularity from custom games. The gaming industry changed, deal with it.
Actually, custom games are exactly why BW is still being played so much in PC bang.
Back on topic, the general consensus seems to be very positive. They like the fact that the game now seems to be more open and dynamic. But, HOTS will never challenge the likes of LOL or Sudden Attack in the PC bang rankings because these are team play games.
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United States23455 Posts
I don't buy the whole it was just a regular LCS day/exhibition tournament thing and that it doesn't mean much SC2 beat it.
I'm sure a regular TSM game would get more viewers than a major final with two Korean LoL teams.
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All you people comparing the LoL stream and Sc2 streams....stop.
It's like comparing the popularity of Facebook games with console games.
And I don't say that to say LoL is similar gameplay-wise to FarmVille I am referring to its popularity. It's just an accepted fact that ATM it is a worldwide phenomenon, in large part due to it being F2P. At the end of the day, lol may have had 100k+ viewers on average, but Sc2 still had 2 streams which had nice big viewer counts too(I watched Friday/sat, red averaged 50-70 while blue was pretty consistent between 18-30k). LoL being more popular doesnt kill sc2. in fact We should be thanking LoL because all those viewers mean success for MLG and esports in general; besides during downtime I ended up watching some LoL and some CoD so I'm sure some people experiencienced Starcraft the same way. I'm more than happy for sc2 to be the nhl of the esports world. I don't need to be the #1 esport as long as sc doesn't disappear and realistically I don't think lizard will let that happen!
Tl;dr being pro-sc is no better than being an ignorant racist. Defending your game while hating all others is horrible, there is room for everyone just like there is room for many genres of sport at olympics(which is how esports is marketed, because it makes the most sense). Enjoy the fact that we can have MLGs with millions of viewers to increase the success of esports. We ride together we die together.
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The only reason SC2 is up from #21 to #11 is the novelty-newness factor and people playing the campaign. It will go down soon when people realize the gameplay is still about ball vs ball and gimmicky drops. I see HOTS popularity falling faster than even WOL in Korea and possibly worldwide.
The worst part is, tanks are now even more useless than they were in WOL and "MECH TERRAN" == make widow mines from factory lol.
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i wish people would stop saying how terrible it is that BW is still #6...
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On March 19 2013 10:56 NHL Fever wrote:
Maybe someone can correct me, but I don't believe SC1 was really popular in Korea until years after its release. Perhaps the same will happen with SC2. Once all the Kespa pros fully migrate over and hit their full form, with everyone on sc2 the popularity might increase.
AFAIK the first televised sc game was in 1998
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On March 19 2013 13:50 golgo_13 wrote:
The only reason SC2 is up from #21 to #11 is the novelty-newness factor and people playing the campaign. It will go down soon when people realize the gameplay is still about ball vs ball and gimmicky drops. I see HOTS popularity falling faster than even WOL in Korea and possibly worldwide.
The worst part is, tanks are now even more useless than they were in WOL and "MECH TERRAN" == make widow mines from factory lol.
Oh man somebody didn't watch MLG as you just showed you have no idea what you are talking about ^_^
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BW had a dedicated section in major websites with eSport articles and news coming out weekly or on gameday. View counts were pretty high within the sports section and considering how wildly baseball and European soccer are popular in Korea, it said something. Naver also had an online streaming on proleague game days with dedicated eSports section.
With the release of SC2, those are all gone. I have never ever seen a single article related to SC2 on web portals. Simply said, SC2 is not popular in Korea, with or without HotS. 11th in PC Bang ranking means pretty much no one plays it.
Oh and Koreans don't play DOTA they play Kaos and LoL
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I think its important to realize, that, how popular a game is and how many people actually buy and play the game is 2 different things. Of course there's some connection there... But there are so many sports out there that are popular and people watch them on a regular basis, and still there are only a few that play them often. For example Snooker, was picked up by Eurosport, and it has a really big viewer audience the last few years, but I'm pretty sure very few people play it. The same can be said about other games as well. Just because a lot of people don't play SC2 often, doesn't mean they don't enjoy watching it.
I'd like to add, that this comparison "Sc2 vs LoL", is completely pointless, and people should not be annoyed by the fact that another game is growing, or is already bigger. We shouldn't aim to get huge numbers or everyone watching the game. Instead we should aim on people watching the game regularly and not having people leave the game for whatever reason. Stability is much more important than %growth.
For example look at a game like Chess... It doesn't have huge viewer numbers, very few people play chess regularly and still there's a ton of money in that "industry", and they have a stabilized audience, big enough to sustain the game. I know there are differences, but I don't think we should expect Sc2 to be the most popular game, because of it's nature. It's still a great game, a ton of people still care a lot about it, and there's a lot of money invested into it and a lot more money is gonna enter in the future.
Lastly recall that a lot of people in the early days of Sc2, said that a lot of companies weren't ready to invest in Sc2 and e-Sports in general because it was a new game-industry. So you never know where the game will head after 3-4 years, when companies see that investing in a game like Sc2 is a lot safer than it was in the past.
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BW is popular because it actually has custom games. Starcraft 2 will never match it because the custom game system or "Arcade" is still so terrible in HotS.
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Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.
A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.
And that's pretty much about it.
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why must every thread everywhere involve sc2 bitching about lol
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On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.
A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.
And that's pretty much about it.
Get off the TL sc2 forums if you don't have fun. Me And millions of others enjoy it, noone forces you to play it.
I literally don't get how people like you don't have something better to do than whine about a game you admit yourself you don't like
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On March 19 2013 14:25 Clefairy wrote:
BW is popular because it actually has custom games. Starcraft 2 will never match it because the custom game system or "Arcade" is still so terrible in HotS.
Stop this BS. BW's custom game is not even as good as arcade.
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On March 19 2013 14:32 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.
A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.
And that's pretty much about it. Get off the TL sc2 forums if you don't have fun. Me And millions of others enjoy it, noone forces you to play it. I literally don't get how people like you don't have something better to do than whine about a game you admit yourself you don't like
How about you drop the personal attacks.
Did I say I feel it's not fun to play?
I was just suggesting there are not a lot of people feel it's fun to play and that's why it's not taking off in Korea, China, etc. Many other people have suggested similar arguments in this thread as well.
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EPT
