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On March 07 2013 18:52 Postman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 18:42 Targe wrote:On March 07 2013 18:22 Exells wrote:On March 07 2013 18:18 Assirra wrote:On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote:
Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins. I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh. And MC... Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ? Please no. No more foreign seeds! They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
I dont know for sure but those fangirls & fanboys that sound like girls of the top KeSPA players are many. And they are Korean you know. GOM wins big when they get KeSPA in the GSL but as for foreigner in the GSL? not so much
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On March 07 2013 10:38 Gihi wrote:
Well, lots of drama ITT, I'll just wait and see what they have to say before I go about sprouting wild opinions.
There´s no drama, only TL people running and screaming as allways do about anything.
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On March 07 2013 18:52 Postman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 18:42 Targe wrote:On March 07 2013 18:22 Exells wrote:On March 07 2013 18:18 Assirra wrote:On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote:
Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins. I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh. And MC... Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ? Please no. No more foreign seeds! They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
So set up a foreigner only mini-tournament for the Code S seed. Have it as little as 4 people but at least have something. This handing out invite crap needs to stop. The majority of the time it ends up as a joke. Let them earn it by at least beating someone else in their "class" for it. At the very least we'll get the best(at the time) out of those 4 or 8 or whatever.
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On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about
the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^.
Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
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On March 07 2013 19:46 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL. it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol. p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
How do you get the number 90%? You know all Korean SC2 fans? You are a politician or the number of SC2 fans is just too small. Or show us a poll plz, and prove all Korean SC2 fans participated in that or prove statistical significance of the sample.
Or another option, just admit you are making things up from your own biased fanboy's head.
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i seriously feel like korea need better PR, some of the things they write are horrible
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On March 07 2013 20:40 phi_dang[RB] wrote:
i seriously feel like korea need better PR, some of the things they write are horrible
Very much to the point....
I did not feel angry, but after reading:
If I were in the viewer's position, I would be angry, frustrated, and questioning why the reason can't be explained at present.
I felt like I have to feel angry
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On March 07 2013 18:40 ZachFreeman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 18:22 Exells wrote:On March 07 2013 18:18 Assirra wrote:On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote:
Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins. I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh. And MC... Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ? Because she doesn't deserve it.
Did Jaedong deserved it ? Does Stephano deserve it ? Does anyone really deserve it if he (or she) cannot qualify by the regular way ?
Not really but it brings viewers. Kespa/foreigners against "classics" ESF players is good for viewers. Remember that GOM is a company. Goal is to make money, and this goes by bringing viewers.
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On March 07 2013 19:46 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL. it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol. p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
to be fair we have the like of Rain, InCa, Genius, TOP in the GSL ro2 you know. Nothing wrong with reverse-killing Flash, 3-0 Rain (the actual champ) and 3-0 MC
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 07 2013 18:52 Postman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 18:42 Targe wrote:On March 07 2013 18:22 Exells wrote:On March 07 2013 18:18 Assirra wrote:On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote:
Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins. I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh. And MC... Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ? Please no. No more foreign seeds! They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
Stephano != Scarlett
in fact Stephano != all current foreigners at their current skill level
however the fact remains that Stephano is still only a borderline Code A/S player.
And do they really bring the viewers? Everyone says this but I swear there wasn't a change in viewers when Stephano was on over other people.
Edit: Comma -> Question mark
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
i'm pretty sure naniwa, when he was getting RO8s in GSL was pulling huge numbers (i base my judgement on LR thread activity)
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On March 07 2013 20:18 edgeOut wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:46 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL. it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol. p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL. How do you get the number 90%? You know all Korean SC2 fans? You are a politician or the number of SC2 fans is just too small. Or show us a poll plz, and prove all Korean SC2 fans participated in that or prove statistical significance of the sample. Or another option, just admit you are making things up from your own biased fanboy's head.
im saying roughly. Oh please. go look up to vods of OSL and compare it to GSL season 4 and you'll see what i mean. This isnt broodwar where OSL was the most prestigious league of all (well some treat MSL equally)..
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On March 07 2013 21:20 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:46 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL. it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol. p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL. to be fair we have the like of Rain, InCa, Genius, TOP in the GSL ro2 you know. Nothing wrong with reverse-killing Flash, 3-0 Rain (the actual champ) and 3-0 MC
Last didnt win mc 3-0, he beat mc three times in a row only to get reverse all killed by mc. Inca, Rain, Genius and TOP were actually great players back then, all of those mentioned were open season beasts/ regular code s ,they just faded away and became irrelevant since early 2012.
I find it extremely funny to see people who have virtually zero idea about the korean scene talk out of their ass. Ive seen the live threads in fomos, pgr and playxp and majority of them were going on about how shitty OSL was and were constantly bashing commentating, production, format etc.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 07 2013 22:11 opterown wrote:
i'm pretty sure naniwa, when he was getting RO8s in GSL was pulling huge numbers (i base my judgement on LR thread activity)
I expect nani and jinro pulled numbers as they got significantly deep into the tournament, a foreigner like Stephano getting a foreign seed straight into code S I don't think has the same viewer effect.
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I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
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On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote:
I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
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United States33487 Posts
On March 08 2013 02:11 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote:
I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues. The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho 
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On March 08 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 02:11 Shady Sands wrote:On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote:
I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues. The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers. The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
Nothing as blatant as giving teams free seeds...
EDIT: Also, Wax, that's a strawman. Nowhere did I say GOM couldn't engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition--I said that GOM shouldn't mess with the outcome of said competition in order to increase viewer activities. It would be totally okay for GOM to, say, make what should be Bo5s into Bo7s because that makes people more or less likely to watch, or schedule matches when the most people can see them, or even put star players into easier groups (although that's as far as I would take it). But giving 'popular' players free rides? What the heck... if Starcraft wants to be taken seriously as an eSport, it needs to move past this sort of BS.
EDIT #2: Did you ever see the OSL handing out seeds to popular players? Nope. Savior, Oov, Bisu, Jaedong, Flash--all of them had to earn their way in through the ODT crapshoot. But nope, I guess the GSL feels like skill shouldn't matter to who gets a spot in line and who doesn't. What message do you think that sends to the guys who are practicing ten or fifteen hours a day trying for that slim chance at getting a spot?
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On March 07 2013 19:46 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 04:02 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 03:39 mongmong wrote:On March 07 2013 02:54 Bagration wrote:On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world. Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it. Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least. LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful. I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL. it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol. p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
Leave what you don't understand out of this. + Show Spoiler +
Also OSL may appear to be a joke to many of the new foreigners to Starcraft, which I guess your one of them, but the OSL has a lot of prestige to it and every korean knows what the OSL is, compared to uninformed SC2 players outside of Korea. Obviously it lost its touch some with the Kespa players being so new to SC2 but should they host the tournament again in Hots it will be a really big deal.
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Gief ze seed to M to the V to the mothaf****n P (whose smashing ppl in IEM)
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EPT
