EPTI'm glad most people came clean, but, without attacking the people behind it, I think VvV was a really shitty organization that treated it's players like crap.
vVv SC2, The Real Story - Page 4
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
I'm glad most people came clean, but, without attacking the people behind it, I think VvV was a really shitty organization that treated it's players like crap. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:28 pb.fcnz wrote: Proving my point. Not a single progamer does that. No one. Nada. Some switch (like completely switch, stop a game totally and play another one full-time). To get you to "tournament status" in SC2 would require well over a year of 6-10 hours of laddering if you have no competitive background in BW, maybe 6-8 months if you were a solid BW player. You are a casual gamer dude. And that's totally fine, but you can't relate to the players on Aspire. You're probably a terrible player at all 3 games when gauged on a competitive scale. If you focused on a single game, you'd probably end up decent in it, depending on the skill cap of your game of choice and the time invested in it. I spent almost 10 years playing CS 1.6 and still wasn't at the top. True competitive platforms like BW/SC2, CS1.6, Q3 and a few others require years of intense practice to get anywhere at a competitive level. These guys from Aspire aren't trying to be casuals and that's not why vVv took them onboard. The goal was to be competitive. This is why what vVv did is just flat-out bad. I would also like to point out I had a feeling there was a disconnect involved when he, being a vVv "mmo player", namely WoW, has his WoW play consisting of playing on a private (read: nonlegit) WotLK (read: 2 expansions ago) server. Aka no chance of any actual competitive play whatsoever, so obviously completely casual, which is not what Aspire was supposedly for, unless there was some miscommunication there too. It's like saying you're an SC2 player when Legacy of the Void is the current expansion, but you play Wings of Liberty on a Chinese private server. So I'm not sure if he's getting the viewpoint and expectations of the Aspire team, and what they may have communicated with management. Or perhaps there was miscommunication on both sides and Aspire was never meant to be anything but a "community" and not a "team" from the management's side? Have no idea, what a mess. But I can't help but get the feeling there was an asymmetry in expectations based on this guy's view of what vVv is and isn't. But all that aside, there's still the missed expecations of some of the earlier players before the whole Aspire thing happened, so maybe the SC2 management is just shady after all. | ||
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SalvorMallow
United States15 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:30 exfrozensteel wrote: Did you not read what I said earlier? there are no evident promises that have been made and those who are stated aren't provided with proof ! And they may not be members of the community any more, it doesn't take away there common sense... other wise they deserved to get screwed even if it isn't the case PM I sent to Doomhammer after I found out the next day that SC2 were all removed from vVv: Me: That is a strange decision. The content of the post and the way this was handled completely contradicts the spirit of our discussions last night. Also, Astraea was dropped even though he was super active in the forums and had no affiliation with our decision to leave. Might want to reconsider him. I believe he was moved to SC2 from GW2 fairly recently. I'm the one who got you added back into vVv. The fact that you're badmouthing me now even though you were removed from vVv without being talked to is hilarious. | ||
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vrmr
21 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:30 exfrozensteel wrote: Did you not read what I said earlier? there are no evident promises that have been made and those who are stated aren't provided with proof ! And they may not be members of the community any more, it doesn't take away there common sense... other wise they deserved to get screwed even if it isn't the case So they never promised the winner of their academy tournament a trip to the next mlg and have taken it back later? All these players just thought up this coordinated lie, that the management doesn't keep promises ( like sending players to tournaments), or the promise that they make a coordinated post about them leaving which the management obviously ignored to make it into a post that they "dropped" them? How can u even trust in such douchebags as a management team. | ||
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Nooborghini
Canada136 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:41 Torte de Lini wrote: Nooborghini: How close do you live to ETS? Sucks that all that shit happened, but I live diagonally from the ETS venue and can have you stay at my place if you still can afford to go there and compete (I'll provide you with food/cooking & lodging). No charge, just figured my couch would enjoy someone's tired soul on it. Oh and vVv sucks, LordJerith is completely incompetent, I didn't expect his crew of "upper management" to be any better. Hey I got saw, I PM'D you but I'll post it on here just in case. Unfortunately I can't afford to go to LAN ETS cause of the ticket + travel cost. I really wanted to go but I just can't afford the trip myself. Thank you so much for your kind offer but unfortunately due to the finances I can't. If there is anything you need from me, feel free to ask! Thanks again ^^ On January 30 2013 03:46 t e a C h e r wrote: NuBrGNi, barely even plays, This season he has less than 10 games, Then he wonders why vVv ain't paying/supporting.... If I was invited to play for vVv, i'd just play, no complaints no posts on TL. You are privileged to play for a decent team like vVv, they aren't on the lvl of col or EG, so you can't expect much. argggg , people think they deserve what they have not earned. On the contrary, I play A LOT. I don't like people assuming I'm not either high in points or play a lot since I don't play on my main. For my roommates and people who know me I ALWAYS play. If I have down time, I play until I can't play anymore. On January 30 2013 05:24 exfrozensteel wrote: Where did you see promises? I didn't see any... These players are tarnishing the image of vVv by trying to create a scandal around our community to make themselves interesting... plus they are going against the principals of the team they seemed to like by not respecting the fourth pillar of vVv gaming which reveals of common sense. The promises were made in mumble in a verbal agreement, when I confronted Doomhammer regarding a contract he dismissed it as neutrally as possible. I thought nothing of it, I just let it slide where I messed up. Most of the promises were made via mumble, since they made SO many mistakes before via email, skype, something with saved evidence, they moved into mumble/verbal agreements. At the time I was too busy focused with the ridiculous things that they were asking me to do, as well as maintain both my 44+ hr fulltime job w/ 3 hour travel time AND sc2. He even made me write out a stupid week to week schedule on where I practice sc2 and what I do. I already had this but the time spent doing this ON paper and sending it over to him, on a week to week basis was a pain in the ass. On January 30 2013 04:36 exfrozensteel wrote: As a matter of a fact, there are some things that do happen to turn bad. So to the "Why?" I answer "because". You said that the people that vVv sent out were clowns, who tells you they had anything better... That might have been what made the head of vVv need proof of NuBrGNi's level to decide if they would give him money, because until then the only people to who they did give money turned out to be clowns... vVv hasn't had the good elements because they weren't offering the big pay checks, the few players they got fucked them up, so in return they got suspicious about the people they engaged. That could easily explain the place they got stuck in. But let's take this as a new start for us. We don't have any players on the games that old players dishonored our name on, and our leader isn't Lordjerrith anymore but a young nice guy going under the name of DoomHammer. The community seems to have grown from the mistakes of the past and shall probably respond as such. Hope I have answered your questions, Peter "Astraëa" Steel A new start isn't deserved with the head of vVv. This is exactly what is happening with you, you are being controlled and manipulated by vVv to speak good on their behalf. You constantly speak of "community" but you try to defend the head of vVv, I did NOT say anything about the community, I support the community 110% as they supported me. Your posts are influenced by vVv's head management, you're fooling no one here. I was not promised the gear I required, the LAN tickets/financial support I required to go to these events. I even missed the buy-in for LAN ETS ticket BECAUSE they didn't even look into it and they sold out. Now the price is like $115. For the past few LAN's I've been to, I paid for my own money because it's like $10 AND I'm having financial issues. I asked for a shirt, they asked for my size, nothing was given. EVERYTHING that vVv has told me that they were doing, nothing was being done. Here how the system works. Me requesting things to either Salvor or another Head of vVv. Salvor would tell a Head of vVv. Head of vVv does not process it. AT ALL. If I went to a Head of vVv, I was told lies and said that it was being done. EDIT: On January 30 2013 05:34 Glurkenspurk wrote: Does this not break anyone else's brain? What the fuck? Isn't the ENTIRE POINT of signing a contract for sponsorship that they cover these things? If they told me this I would instantly drop from the team. This was an alarm for me but Dallas was HotS so I decided to just turn a blind eye because I played Wings at the time, I haven't practiced HotS at all. But I was def sketched out. | ||
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pb.fcnz
Canada101 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:21 exfrozensteel wrote: Okay I guess I'll have to do a general answer again... If you have a problem with Lordjerrith, please know that he is only the owner of vVv and no longer at the head of the community. As I just said, we have a new path in front of us and will advance on other games than Starcraft. you may think vVv is a joke, we all have our bad days... Some of you may think I'm a C Sucker because I am defending a community (I insist on "COMMUNITY" not team) that was once ruled by a jerk with no sense, and that once had shit players that tarnished their image, to that I reply that I am defending the players of a community that have potential and motivation for their passion. Even though our principals were not respected until now, the players we have now do respect them and they won't change. That is the reason why better than leaving vVv we prefer to restore the image of the community so that one day it'll be called a team. Peter "Astraëa" Steel It'll never be respected until it is competitive (by competitive, here, I mean that it places high in tourneys or has players perform well in visible leagues/ladders/lans). It'll never be competitive until it picks up good players. It'll never pick up good players until it gets serious It'll never get serious because it is a non-competitive community See the circle? Again, sorry to break it to you, but you're probably awful at the games you play. You can't take vVv seriously when players can just switch from game to game as divisions shut down, unless you were some sort of gaming genius, in which case anyone here would have heard your name. Even the mid-tier of US pros (so the bottom tier of the pro scene), have probably spent more time playing SC2 in the last 2 years then you've spent playing games, period. You just can't appreciate the dedication required to achieve pro status in a game like SC2, CS or even LoL at this point (like, CLG status, not like, you do good against your buddies status), as most casual gamers do. | ||
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mikkmagro
Malta1513 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:24 exfrozensteel wrote: Where did you see promises? I didn't see any... These players are tarnishing the image of vVv by trying to create a scandal around our community to make themselves interesting... plus they are going against the principals of the team they seemed to like by not respecting the fourth pillar of vVv gaming which reveals of common sense. It's useless talking and reading your posts if you won't even do the courtesy of reading what others post. Read what the sponsored players said, then post. This can be a pillar of the Team Liquid Forum, if you will. If your management decides to completely disregard agreements, and blatantly lie about stuff, then former players not only have a right to go public about it, they have a moral duty to do it. If your management breaks the rules, then you can't fault FORMER players from breaking them as well. Please understand that if a person LEAVES from an organisation, he is no longer bound by its rules. That's common sense. (for spoonfeeding purposes, one of the lies that irked the former players was that the following: The management decided to stop of funding and support to the SC2 division, and due to this, the players decide to leave - they were in discussion with the management to announce what really is happening, that the team decided to leave, but the management then just went ahead and said that they were closing the SC2 division and releasing all players because competitive support for the game was waning - which is a big load of crap) | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
[14/01/2013 6:28:23 PM] John Victor Kim: im applying for welfare this week and waiting on the process Applying for welfare and playing professional SC2? SMH | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:35 SalvorMallow wrote: PM I sent to Doomhammer after I found out the next day that SC2 were all removed from vVv: I'm the one who got you added back into vVv. The fact that you're badmouthing me now even though you were removed from vVv without being talked to is hilarious. LOL the irony | ||
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Nooborghini
Canada136 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:38 RinconH wrote: Applying for welfare and playing professional SC2? SMH Do you support your college fund into your parents financial crisis? Did you have to spend the past few years trying to feed yourself, a girlfriend, 8 year old sister AND 2 parents? You can shake your head all you want, I am proud to be a change within my family, its hard enough to be first generation and still try to chase my dream. I know this is very unprofessional but this post hit a bit too close to home so I re-buttle with a go fuck yourself. Who the FUCK are you to judge me? EDIT: I try to maintain the HIGHEST level of professionalism is kept on certain levels but if you are going to be as arrogant and rude then I have NO problem speaking my mind. | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:41 Nooborghini wrote: Do you support your college fund into your parents financial crisis? Did you have to spend the past few years trying to feed yourself, a girlfriend, 8 year old sister AND 2 parents? You can shake your head all you want, I am proud to be a change within my family, its hard enough to be first generation and still try to chase my dream. I know this is very unprofessional but this post hit a bit too close to home so I re-buttle with a go fuck yourself. Who the FUCK are you to judge me? EDIT: I try to maintain the HIGHEST level of professionalism is kept on certain levels but if you are going to be as arrogant and rude then I have NO problem speaking my mind. ./agreed this kid needs to stfu quick | ||
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farvacola
United States18824 Posts
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:41 Torte de Lini wrote: Nooborghini: How close do you live to ETS? Sucks that all that shit happened, but I live diagonally from the ETS venue and can have you stay at my place if you still can afford to go there and compete (I'll provide you with food/cooking & lodging). No charge, just figured my couch would enjoy someone's tired soul on it. Oh and vVv sucks, LordJerith is completely incompetent, I didn't expect his crew of "upper management" to be any better. So manner. Props mate. | ||
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exfrozensteel
France7 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:34 Glurkenspurk wrote: Does this not break anyone else's brain? What the fuck? Isn't the ENTIRE POINT of signing a contract for sponsorship that they cover these things? If they told me this I would instantly drop from the team. That would've been common sense from the players who visibly didn't have enough and now they are complaining. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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boxturtle
United States224 Posts
Sadly, dropping this division probably has given vVv more 10x more publicity than usual, not that they really have many people in their community in the first place. Their shootmania builds thread on reddit has ~8 comments and 11 upvotes at the moment. Some cocksucking post by one of their LoL guys has 2 upvotes (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16au1g/the_should_mentality_of_a_gamer/ for reference). It looks like they influence their members into writing some mid-high school level articles and posting them up for the ~50 views they'll get. I'm also not very sorry for their "community players." I've met 1 decent guy with the vVv tag on his name in the 2+ years I've played this game. I've played against plenty of high diamond/low masters vVv members and the common delineating factor seems to be a horrid lack of manners and a missing chromosome. It's sad a bunch of semi-pros got hosed and never got their chance to become big timers, but we should be glad that the vVv blight removed itself from our community. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:41 Nooborghini wrote: Do you support your college fund into your parents financial crisis? Did you have to spend the past few years trying to feed yourself, a girlfriend, 8 year old sister AND 2 parents? You can shake your head all you want, I am proud to be a change within my family, its hard enough to be first generation and still try to chase my dream. I know this is very unprofessional but this post hit a bit too close to home so I re-buttle with a go fuck yourself. Who the FUCK are you to judge me? EDIT: I try to maintain the HIGHEST level of professionalism is kept on certain levels but if you are going to be as arrogant and rude then I have NO problem speaking my mind. Well... to be fair his point was more that you're using other people's money that are not willingly supporting your "choice" to play full time games. Instead, welfare is supposed to be a system that helps with a lull in income. His point is rather legitimate, but I think everyone here would understand from many past examples of personalities in the scene who truly love the game that many of us will do whatever it takes to stick with it. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Eggi
478 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:59 -Kyo- wrote: Well... to be fair his point was more that you're using other people's money that are not willingly supporting your "choice" to play full time games. Instead, welfare is supposed to be a system that helps with a lull in income. His point is rather legitimate, but I think everyone here would understand from many past examples of personalities in the scene who truly love the game that many of us will do whatever it takes to stick with it. #this You are using people's money to not work so you, when you boil it down, to play video games? If youre on welfare and gaming is your #1 priority you might want to think about your priorities. There's more to life than gaming, its fine to chase dreams, but dont siphon money out of a system that supposed to help people that are legit having troubles with finances and not making it a choice. Gaming full time is a choice. | ||
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