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On January 30 2013 05:59 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:41 Nooborghini wrote:On January 30 2013 05:38 RinconH wrote:[14/01/2013 6:28:23 PM] John Victor Kim: im applying for welfare this week and waiting on the process Applying for welfare and playing professional SC2? SMH Do you support your college fund into your parents financial crisis? Did you have to spend the past few years trying to feed yourself, a girlfriend, 8 year old sister AND 2 parents? You can shake your head all you want, I am proud to be a change within my family, its hard enough to be first generation and still try to chase my dream. I know this is very unprofessional but this post hit a bit too close to home so I re-buttle with a go fuck yourself. Who the FUCK are you to judge me? EDIT: I try to maintain the HIGHEST level of professionalism is kept on certain levels but if you are going to be as arrogant and rude then I have NO problem speaking my mind. Well... to be fair his point was more that you're using other people's money that are not willingly supporting your "choice" to play full time games. Instead, welfare is supposed to be a system that helps with a lull in income. His point is rather legitimate, but I think everyone here would understand from many past examples of personalities in the scene who truly love the game that many of us will do whatever it takes to stick with it.
The only reason why I've applied to that and IE is because the job market has been short for the past few months.
When I move onto a new job, every expense was put towards my credit card. This is my first time applying for it, I don't like it but I have to cause no jobs at the moment due to the holidays.
On January 30 2013 06:04 SoOJuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:59 -Kyo- wrote:On January 30 2013 05:41 Nooborghini wrote:On January 30 2013 05:38 RinconH wrote:[14/01/2013 6:28:23 PM] John Victor Kim: im applying for welfare this week and waiting on the process Applying for welfare and playing professional SC2? SMH Do you support your college fund into your parents financial crisis? Did you have to spend the past few years trying to feed yourself, a girlfriend, 8 year old sister AND 2 parents? You can shake your head all you want, I am proud to be a change within my family, its hard enough to be first generation and still try to chase my dream. I know this is very unprofessional but this post hit a bit too close to home so I re-buttle with a go fuck yourself. Who the FUCK are you to judge me? EDIT: I try to maintain the HIGHEST level of professionalism is kept on certain levels but if you are going to be as arrogant and rude then I have NO problem speaking my mind. Well... to be fair his point was more that you're using other people's money that are not willingly supporting your "choice" to play full time games. Instead, welfare is supposed to be a system that helps with a lull in income. His point is rather legitimate, but I think everyone here would understand from many past examples of personalities in the scene who truly love the game that many of us will do whatever it takes to stick with it. #this You are using people's money to not work so you, when you boil it down, to play video games? If youre on welfare and gaming is your #1 priority you might want to think about your priorities. There's more to life than gaming.
You guys are under the impression I'm going under welfare to play games... That's retarded...? I put sc2 to a halt because the job market is slow. Why are you folks assuming of what I'm doing right now? I need some help for the past few months that I was terminated due to something unexpected in my life and I hit a rough patch.
Plus I'm not even on it right now, I've been using coaching money/sc2 money to fund myself.
Please don't give me a speech about what is right and what is wrong about how I'm siphoning money out of people who pay taxes. I payed the taxes too, the sheer assumption you put in your post shows me how ignorant you are to the entire situation.
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Sorry if my post was not clear, I was elaborating on what I believe the other poster was attempting to say. For that reason he seemed to have a valid point due to your rebuttle not really having any relevance to what the message attempted to convey. As I noted at the end of my post I don't really have an opinion one way or the other. 
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On January 30 2013 06:11 -Kyo- wrote:Sorry if my post was not clear, I was elaborating on what I believe the other poster was attempting to say. For that reason he seemed to have a valid point due to your rebuttle not really having any relevance to what the message attempted to convey. As I noted at the end of my post I don't really have an opinion one way or the other.
He needed to explain himself better. That part in the skype convo should've been removed.
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Awkward thread is awkward. Feels like watching a fight break out at a wedding or something alike. Does anyone outside the people involved actually care about this whole thing?
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Funny that the fall of the team is a bigger deal than its existence.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:41 Torte de Lini wrote:
Nooborghini: How close do you live to ETS? Sucks that all that shit happened, but I live diagonally from the ETS venue and can have you stay at my place if you still can afford to go there and compete (I'll provide you with food/cooking & lodging).
No charge, just figured my couch would enjoy someone's tired soul on it.
Oh and vVv sucks, LordJerith is completely incompetent, I didn't expect his crew of "upper management" to be any better.
Wow. You are the pinnacle of mankind Torte de Lini, that is true charity.
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Disgusting.
I can't say I'm surprised, but disgusted none the less.
My thoughts are with you Salvor, and to all the players that vVv deceived and lied to.
I wish eSports was full of honest, hard working people who don't cheat or steal to get ahead, but sadly that just isn't the case.
Shame on you vVv.
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OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.
After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.
Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.
Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.
Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players.
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On January 30 2013 07:00 Glon wrote:
OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.
After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.
Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.
Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.
Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players.
Two quick corrections:
1. We promised to help you find personal sponsorship if it was possible, not salary.
2. We discussed having you as the sole member of the SC2 team at Anaheim in front of a room full of witnesses.
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On January 30 2013 05:06 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:02 zuhairZ wrote:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
toxsik, Titan and nooborghini all my home boys.
always heard bad things aobut vVv management :\ Wow zoohairz, was your other account banned THAT long ago that they've not caught this one? Damn how time flies ~. But yea, don't think anyone in sc2 will be missing vVv.
I got unbanned cause I came in 4th at Esports Canada LAN + They were nice enough to give me a 2nd chance.
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On January 30 2013 07:10 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:00 Glon wrote:
OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.
After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.
Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.
Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.
Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players. Two quick corrections: 1. We promised to help you find personal sponsorship if it was possible, not salary. 2. We discussed having you as the sole member of the SC2 team at Anaheim in front of a room full of witnesses.
You can have all the little "corrections" you want. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is going to believe them. You outright lie in public posts (like the one in vVv where you painted me in a bad light for leaving because I didn't think Aspire was going anywhere...?). On top of your dishonesty, you even managed to post in the "vVv NuBrGNi Appreciation thread" the DAY after you took part in screwing him over that he was a "great symbol to be looked up to." Now please, don't even begin to try and argue.
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Hooray for boobies!
User was warned for this post
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On January 30 2013 06:18 MiQ wrote:
Awkward thread is awkward. Feels like watching a fight break out at a wedding or something alike. Does anyone outside the people involved actually care about this whole thing?
wow, thats a really good analogy.
at least this guy cares:
On January 30 2013 07:25 Morgoth wrote:
Hooray for boobies!
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This whole team(clan) is just a mess.
It actually gets me angry to see this stuff.
I wish all of these types of teams would just end already.
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On January 30 2013 07:10 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:00 Glon wrote:
OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.
After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.
Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.
Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.
Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players. Two quick corrections: 1. We promised to help you find personal sponsorship if it was possible, not salary. 2. We discussed having you as the sole member of the SC2 team at Anaheim in front of a room full of witnesses.
Might want to leave. Even if you're right (which you aren't) no one is going to believe a word you say, and rightly so.
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On January 30 2013 07:11 zuhairZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:06 EtherealDeath wrote:On January 30 2013 05:02 zuhairZ wrote:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
toxsik, Titan and nooborghini all my home boys.
always heard bad things aobut vVv management :\ Wow zoohairz, was your other account banned THAT long ago that they've not caught this one? Damn how time flies ~. But yea, don't think anyone in sc2 will be missing vVv. I got unbanned cause I came in 4th at Esports Canada LAN + They were nice enough to give me a 2nd chance.
You owe us after party beer money. Drank out beer and skipped out on the beer tab.. Also noob pmed about ticket.
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I remember vVv screwing around CS teams (both source and 1.6) forever ago. They would reach an agreement with an up and coming team, but then jerk around with the sponsorship. Flights would be misplaced, etc.
There needs to be a universal list where stuff like this is reported, because very often it's the same people who mess around with this shit. Just look at Blight.
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On January 30 2013 07:10 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:00 Glon wrote:
OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.
After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.
Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.
Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.
Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players. Two quick corrections: 1. We promised to help you find personal sponsorship if it was possible, not salary. 2. We discussed having you as the sole member of the SC2 team at Anaheim in front of a room full of witnesses.
Looks like jerry has taught you well in the art of lying. Thankfully enough people are coming forward that it doesn't matter.
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vVv Blavek, that "collumnist / MMO guru" should be fired.
He actually said, on the third page of the vVv-gaming forum, that the SC2 division got dropped because it lacked creativity, talent, and a worthwhile work effort.
What in the FUCK. I know for a fact that vVv has streamed while running logos/plugging/youtubing content like there's no tomorrow. God... reading his thoughtless self-righteous post made me want to ram my head through a cheese grater. How unprofessional can you POSSIBLY be to people who were your colleagues not a week ago?
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EPT
