As many of you have heard last week, one of eSF teams, TSL has unfortunately disbanded and previous TSL coach and players are now free agents.
To this, eSF shall see over the few agents with assent from TSL players and coach. Therefore, all contact point for upcoming negotiation and scouting is to be eSF and all conditions offered by teams shall be forwarded to players without filtering, so feel free to proceed without worries.
This is to prevent any mistakes or misunderstanding coming from lack of interpreting terms by younger players and help stable signing of contract.
Basically any team that wishes to sign particular player or players from TSL, is to contact rodeojuno@naver.com.
eSF will make preparations with negotiations for TSL players, so they can find the team that best suits their interest. We ask for your support and have attached list of TSL players below.
Please contact me only via e-mail. Not PM. (2013. 01. 07 ~ 2013. 01. 18)
Contact Point : rodeojuno@naver.com
Edit : ESF’s acting as agency for TSL has been given consent by TSL players, and has been notified to all teams in Korea. Let there be no mistake that eSF is doing this with no concern to opinion of players.
Also this information was notified to Korean teams last week. However, this has been posted on TL.Net as it is also a matter of interest to foreign teams and to provide more opportunities to the players.
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
if they were trying to be like kespa, they wouldn't be posting this on TL. They would do it in house, in korea, without ever saying anything to the international community. Basically they are saying, if you want to sign an eSF free agent, we will act as an intermediary so there is no misunderstandings of terms etc
Dunno what you guys are reading because it seems clear as day this isnt about controlling players, but making sure that they don't get screwed or misunderstand something. Language barrier and all, it makes sense
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
if they were trying to be like kespa, they wouldn't be posting this on TL. They would do it in house, in korea, without ever saying anything to the international community. Basically they are saying, if you want to sign an eSF free agent, we will act as an intermediary so there is no misunderstandings of terms etc
Dunno what you guys are reading because it seems clear as day this isnt about controlling players, but making sure that they don't get screwed or misunderstand something. Language barrier and all, it makes sense
The only reason they posted here is because they don't have the right to represent players, so they want to shout out to claim they have, to make people believe it. KeSPA always had the right to players, that's a given for many years, they only need to clarify when there are misunderstandings.
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
if they were trying to be like kespa, they wouldn't be posting this on TL. They would do it in house, in korea, without ever saying anything to the international community. Basically they are saying, if you want to sign an eSF free agent, we will act as an intermediary so there is no misunderstandings of terms etc
Dunno what you guys are reading because it seems clear as day this isnt about controlling players, but making sure that they don't get screwed or misunderstand something. Language barrier and all, it makes sense
The only reason they posted here is because they don't have the right to represent players, so they want to shout out to claim they have to make people believe it. KeSPA always had the right to players, that's a given for many years, they only need to clarify when there are misunderstandings.
Of course they don't have rights to the players, but it's obvious the players gave consent for the eSF to do this.
Otherwise you'll have another incident where koreans signed onto a team (that wont be named) that didn't send them to a particular tournament and then those players left on ill-will.
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
if they were trying to be like kespa, they wouldn't be posting this on TL. They would do it in house, in korea, without ever saying anything to the international community. Basically they are saying, if you want to sign an eSF free agent, we will act as an intermediary so there is no misunderstandings of terms etc
Dunno what you guys are reading because it seems clear as day this isnt about controlling players, but making sure that they don't get screwed or misunderstand something. Language barrier and all, it makes sense
The only reason they posted here is because they don't have the right to represent players, so they want to shout out to claim they have, to make people believe it. KeSPA always had the right to players, that's a given for many years, they only need to clarify when there are misunderstandings.
You severely lack in reading comprehension. At no point do they say they will have any part in actually negotiating, just that they will pass on terms, unfiltered (which is the important part), to the players. They are just trying to stop players gettin screwed over.
Imagine if an english speaking team goes directly to a player, who can barely understand them. So they ask a friend to translate and the friend gets it wrong. Basically eSF are going to act as the translator and central hub thru which to offer terms. No hint of controlling the players.
correct me if i'm wrong, but can't foreign teams just ignore this and contact the players directly anyways if they really want to? it isn't like esf has a lock on players' personal emails, and teams can just say that they didn't see the notice on tl if they get caught red-handed (e.g. by players forwarding emails), etc.
it definitely streamlines the procedure, though, and it does lower the chance of koreans being signed by skeevy teams (which has happened time and time again in the past). the more cynical may take it as esf trying to keep foreign teams from grabbing their players -- and let's be honest here, but esf's been on the losing end insofar as talent drain goes.
not that i have anything against it if the listed players gave their consent (as they seem to have done), and i'm all for more standard contract procedures. it really does seem like a clusterfuck sometimes, these team signings.
edit: honestly, knowing foreign teams, i don't think they will abide by this announcement. hmm.
I wonder if the other TSL players listed on the LP page but not here (Cyrano, Venus, Mamuri, Shine) have found new teams already. The alternative is usually retirement, and while that's expected for Cyrano and probably the two unknown-ish players (they might just be practice partners for the little we know), it'd be a bit of a shame nonetheless.
On January 08 2013 11:05 Darkaros wrote: I wonder if the other TSL players listed on the LP page but not here (Cyrano, Venus, Mamuri, Shine) have found new teams already. The alternative is usually retirement, and while that's expected for Cyrano and probably the two unknown-ish players (they might just be practice partners for the little we know), it'd be a bit of a shame nonetheless.
Cyrano is like 18 though ? I wouldn't expect him to retire at 18
On January 08 2013 11:05 Darkaros wrote: I wonder if the other TSL players listed on the LP page but not here (Cyrano, Venus, Mamuri, Shine) have found new teams already. The alternative is usually retirement, and while that's expected for Cyrano and probably the two unknown-ish players (they might just be practice partners for the little we know), it'd be a bit of a shame nonetheless.
Cyrano is like 18 though ? I wouldn't expect him to retire at 18
Huh, he is. Well that's weird then, since Hyun/Symbol are older than him and part of the free agency list (which mentions young players as a factor). I kind of assumed he was an older player or ex-BW pro.
On January 08 2013 11:11 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Does that mean that the players can't choose their new teams ?
Presumably it means that (note this is entirely a fictitious example)
EG wants to sign Symbol.
Instead of contacting symbol ---> signing him they have to contact esf ---> esf approves or at least informs symbol of the contract and its contents ---> signing him
This is to prevent fake and shitty organizations from picking up players who wouldn't know any better
On January 08 2013 11:11 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Does that mean that the players can't choose their new teams ?
Presumably it means that (note this is entirely a fictitious example)
EG wants to sign Symbol.
Instead of contacting symbol ---> signing him they have to contact esf ---> esf approves or at least informs symbol of the contract and its contents ---> signing him
This is to prevent fake and shitty organizations from picking up players who wouldn't know any better
And also to translate terms and conditions of their contracts. Don't expect them to read and comprehend complicated contract English. Someone has to make sure no one gets duped and everyone understands each other.
On January 08 2013 11:11 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Does that mean that the players can't choose their new teams ?
Presumably it means that (note this is entirely a fictitious example)
EG wants to sign Symbol.
Instead of contacting symbol ---> signing him they have to contact esf ---> esf approves or at least informs symbol of the contract and its contents ---> signing him
This is to prevent fake and shitty organizations from picking up players who wouldn't know any better
It also shows that eSF has authority with their own players, which is a natural move considering they are pretty much dwarfed by bigger teams in and outside of KR.
Hopefully there are also genuine intentions of taking care of their own and not holding their leash.
This is nice I guess but seems a little amateur (posting on TL instead of emailing all the big teams etc), also ESF helping negotiate KESPA teams interest would be lol
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
Not at all! They are making sure the players don't get screwed over by shady as fuck foreign teams... a Kespa regiment wouldn't be posted on TL.... They would control it behind the scenes if thats what they were going for.
I'm glad they are doing this. Would be horrible to see these players go to a crappy team that would rip them off. Atleast now only legit teams really have a shot at them!
On January 08 2013 10:24 AzsharaLife wrote: ... Therefore, all contact point for upcoming negotiation and scouting is to be eSF and all conditions offered by teams shall be forwarded to players without filtering, so feel free to proceed without worries.
This is to prevent any mistakes or misunderstanding coming from lack of interpreting terms by younger players and help stable signing of contract. ...
Well, this assurance didn't seem to exist in the past.
I guess/hope the players themselves had to approve this, since they reportedly didn't have any kind of binding contract.
Glad that they're trying their best to get them on a team without risking the chance of them being taken advantage of due to a scam team, thought I doubt a team that low would even be able to get any of these guys.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
And what would stop the foreign teams from 'leaking' this and saying they are trying to sign so-and-so but they need to go through eSF. IMO, that would cause even more drama. At least this way, it is out in the open.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
And what would stop the foreign teams from 'leaking' this and saying they are trying to sign so-and-so but they need to go through eSF. IMO, that would cause even more drama. At least this way, it is out in the open.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
I hope they did email all the teams as well and this isn't there own way to let them know.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
And what would stop the foreign teams from 'leaking' this and saying they are trying to sign so-and-so but they need to go through eSF. IMO, that would cause even more drama. At least this way, it is out in the open.
Then that team looks like a douchebag.
No. The community will think eSF is being shady and controlling the players behind the scenes.
It doesn't even need to be the team themselves. 'Insiders' can leak this type of information quite easily.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
just wondering, how do you think this would prevent them from joining a kespa team? the edit in the OP says this is only for the foreign teams and the korean teams were notified a week ago.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
On January 08 2013 10:43 FXOBoSs wrote: LOL for real?
I'm curious as to what your thoughts are.. do you not agree with how ESF is handling their players?
They technically they weren't their players anymore, but the OP did say these select players gave them consent to do so. Let's wait and see what happens.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
I don't think GOM knows the contact information for every foreign team out there that might be interested in a TSL player. Isn't this a little easier given that most of those foreign teams have someone that visits this forum?
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
power stunt it may be, but god, there are so many teams these days that just posting smthg like this to TL is a lot more efficient than emailing every goddamn team.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
Like you said, these players are not under eSF control since the team disbanded, there is NOTHING to stop Kespa teams from trying to deal with them.
I am not sure how this would be different if they had just emailed the teams themselves. It is not like it wasn't going to get leaked by someone anyways.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
What you're saying makes no fucking sense.
They picked them up to help them find new teams...so Kespa couldn't find them help new teams?
You do realise they said they contacted every team in Korea right? As in, presumably they told Kespa teams as well and will help them join Kespa teams if they players wish.
It's only with the understanding that most Koreans want to be on foreign teams way more than Korean teams that its unlikely we'll see Kespa pick anyone up.
Why practice 12 hours a day when you can go make easy money in the US and Europe?
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
What you're saying makes no fucking sense.
They picked them up to help them find new teams...so Kespa couldn't find them help new teams?
You do realise they said they contacted every team in Korea right? As in, presumably they told Kespa teams as well and will help them join Kespa teams if they players wish.
It's only with the understanding that most Koreans want to be on foreign teams way more than Korean teams that its unlikely we'll see Kespa pick anyone up.
Why practice 12 hours a day when you can go make easy money in the US and Europe?
No, I just said it. The rights to these players were not locked to ESF before this making a KeSPA team fair game when it comes to picking them up. Like I said, it limits certain opportunities. It's still an opportunity no matter how you slice it man.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
In what way does this lock up these players from KesPA teams? If any of those teams want these guys they contact esf just like any other team would.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
What you're saying makes no fucking sense.
They picked them up to help them find new teams...so Kespa couldn't find them help new teams?
You do realise they said they contacted every team in Korea right? As in, presumably they told Kespa teams as well and will help them join Kespa teams if they players wish.
It's only with the understanding that most Koreans want to be on foreign teams way more than Korean teams that its unlikely we'll see Kespa pick anyone up.
Why practice 12 hours a day when you can go make easy money in the US and Europe?
No, I just said it. The rights to these players were not locked to ESF before this making a KeSPA team fair game when it comes to picking them up. Like I said, it limits certain opportunities. It's still an opportunity no matter how you slice it man.
You don't actually know if they're not going to let them join kespa teams, stop pretending you know that.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
? What are you talking about. Notice some former TSL players aren't on that list? In the edit it says it's done with the TSL players consent.
I would think that ESF offered, and only these 4 players accepted, and are acting as their agency to find the most suitable team based on the player. If anything, it's to provide support to break the language misunderstandings. I wouldn't at all be surprised if none went to kespa teams, but that doesn't just mean that ESF have complete control over which teams they can go to, I don't think kespa would be looking for anyone of these players except HyuN and maybe Symbol.
It also helps teams who are looking to recruit these lower profile players like Ragnarok who are having trouble or can't contact them.
Why is it such a big deal anyways? Having someone help you bargain the best income as well as working conditions isn't the do all or end all.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
Like you said, these players are not under eSF control since the team disbanded, there is NOTHING to stop Kespa teams from trying to deal with them.
I am not sure how this would be different if they had just emailed the teams themselves. It is not like it wasn't going to get leaked by someone anyways.
Technically they're under ESF control now with them acting as the go-to guys for any type of negotiating.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
? What are you talking about. Notice some former TSL players aren't on that list? In the edit it says it's done with the TSL players consent.
I would think that ESF offered, and only these 4 players accepted, and are acting as their agency to find the most suitable team based on the player. If anything, it's to provide support to break the language misunderstandings. I wouldn't at all be surprised if none went to kespa teams, but that doesn't just mean that ESF have complete control over which teams they can go to, I don't think kespa would be looking for anyone of these players except HyuN and maybe Symbol.
It also helps teams who are looking to recruit these lower profile players like Ragnarok who are having trouble or can't contact them.
Why is it such a big deal anyways? Having someone help you bargain the best income as well as working conditions isn't the do all or end all.
What do you think I just said? You might want to read all my posts in this thread again with regards to the list of TSL players. Also you alluded to the same two TSL players that I alluded to that the KeSPA teams might be interested. We're technically saying the same thing, but I'm looking at this from a more political standpoint. They agreed to it. I'm fine with that, but you have to realize that this can put certain limitations on where they can possibly go.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Agreed, no real reason to make this public.
Post above you explains this exactly. By making it public it makes it much less drama prone, they are doing things out in the open for the community to see.
Power play by them or not, I'm glad they did this. Could potentially save a good amount of silly drama down the road imo.
Until your favourite player is prevented from joining a team such as KT or SKT1 because of silly drama. This really didnt need to be public.
Kespa and eSF have a trade lock atm anyway. So none of your favorite players will be moving from an eSF team to kespa. I assume that applies to these players too.
Considering the team disbanded nope. ESF did lock these guys up by getting their consent though to try and find them new teams. Why would they do this? So KeSPA teams cannot pick them up. It was a strategic move, but they didn't have to announce it to everybody.
Like you said, these players are not under eSF control since the team disbanded, there is NOTHING to stop Kespa teams from trying to deal with them.
I am not sure how this would be different if they had just emailed the teams themselves. It is not like it wasn't going to get leaked by someone anyways.
Technically they're under ESF control now with them acting as the go-to guys for any type of negotiating.
Not really. There is still nothing eSF could do if you really wanted to contact the players directly. They cannot legally block them from signing a contract. However, due to the language barrier, it might not be that easy to try to work out deals with the players directly, so they are providing a channel for teams.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man. I wouldn't let a player get screwed over when I'm acting as their agent.
I think a lot of people are just over thinking this. This is a simple statement that 4 players from TSL, with their consent, decided to become free agents through eSF. It's a simple piece of information that you may or may not find it useful. What is there to discuss?
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man.
First of all, you didn't say it was the worse case scenario. You just stated that it was an open block on Kespa. Considering at least 2 of the players on the list are ex Kespa pros, it made no sense at all. As for asking each player for their teams they are interested in, I am not sure how much the Korean pros knows about the foreign scene. HyuN and Symbol probably know more since they have been to foreign events and such. But what about someone like Center? Sure, he could talk to other players but I doubt he would have enough info to know which team he wanted to join.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man. I wouldn't let a player get screwed over when I'm acting as their agent.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man. I wouldn't let a player get screwed over when I'm acting as their agent.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man.
First of all, you didn't say it was the worse case scenario. You just stated that it was an open block on Kespa. Considering at least 2 of the players on the list are ex Kespa pros, it made no sense at all. As for asking each player for their teams they are interested in, I am not sure how much the Korean pros knows about the foreign scene. HyuN and Symbol probably know more since they have been to foreign events and such. But what about someone like Center? Sure, he could talk to other players but I doubt he would have enough info to know which team he wanted to join.
Well from my other post, I said to, "wait and see what happens" and the other note was implied off my re-quote from Josh. Players do talk and there's nothing stopping them from talking. I'm sure they can figure out which teams sound legit and which teams don't. There are a lot of teams that don't have the proper infrastructure setup and we've seen many guys already get screwed over.
I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
I think the answer you would get if you asked the players what teams they are interested in would be the same for almost all of them.
Whichever team offers the best contract with the best opportunities.
You don't actually know what that is until you get offers. As for the offers, you can't make a judgement on them if you can't understand what's in the contract or what the terms are.
Just look at what happened with Ganzi. Sometimes, the language barrier creates a lot of misunderstanding.
On January 08 2013 12:43 Arceus wrote: I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
You just answered your own question, you're just not understanding what is being said. ESF won't censor or hide any information from inquiring teams from the players, they will act as a screening process for the TSL players so another APEX situation doesn't happen again, where a shady team/manager can offer an enticing deal and not deliver. They, in short, are a safety net for the players, keeping the interests of the players in mind to further their pro-gaming careers in a stable environment.
On January 08 2013 12:46 Brian333 wrote: I think the answer you would get if you asked the players what teams they are interested in would be the same for almost all of them.
Whichever team offers the best contract with the best opportunities.
You don't actually know that is until you get offers. As for the offers, you can't make a judgement on them if you can't understand what's in the contract or what the terms are.
Just look at what happened with Ganzi. Sometimes, the language barrier creates a lot of misunderstanding.
From Arceus' post sounds like some people are already confused.
On January 08 2013 12:43 Arceus wrote: I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
Well, teams might not know how to contact the players. What is HyuN's email? Do you go through twitter? Call him perhaps? This just gives the teams that are interested a centralized channel and make sure the message will get to the players.
Obvious, foreign teams that are pretty established in Korea, EG, TL, etc might not need this. But it will help out other teams.
On January 08 2013 12:43 Arceus wrote: I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
Well, teams might not know how to contact the players. What is HyuN's email? Do you go through twitter? Call him perhaps? This just gives the teams that are interested a centralized channel and make sure the message will get to the players.
Obvious, foreign teams that are pretty established in Korea, EG, TL, etc might not need this. But it will help out other teams.
He's actually very easy his contact info compared to the other TSL players, so that's a bad example. The issue is having a really good translator.
I can put up 10, but being a .01% owner of the theoretical team that Hyun sighs with just doesn't seem that appealing to me right now, so that is all I can offer.
Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
good job from ESF would be easy for a team to fast talk the players into a contract (heard from TB that people tried that with crank at MLG once) these players need someone to help make sure that communication is crystal clear both ways
Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
theres a big difference, if Flash wants to go to dreamhack and it doesnt conflict he should be able to assuming the team has the budget, that shouldnt be KeSPAs bussiness at all
the TSL palyers though have no experience in handling contracts and such and could be easily tricked into a bad contract especially since communicating with the other side would be near impossible for them and tehyd be relying on translator paid for by the other team
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
Yes because attending an event once is even comparable to signing a contract with an organization for a period of time specified in said contract that being a Korean they may or may not understand if its coming from an international team.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
or is it because almost every newer sc2-fan believe kespa has a bad history, not even knowing what kespa is/was? Which was my point. Just don't be biased because of some circle-jerked shit.
On January 08 2013 12:43 Arceus wrote: I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
Well, teams might not know how to contact the players. What is HyuN's email? Do you go through twitter? Call him perhaps? This just gives the teams that are interested a centralized channel and make sure the message will get to the players.
Obvious, foreign teams that are pretty established in Korea, EG, TL, etc might not need this. But it will help out other teams.
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
i dont remember the ESF doing as many shady douche moves as KeSPA though KeSPA were complete hard asses who wanted nothing more then complete control over everything and to show just how much control they had
ESF has been pretty civil and friendly
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
there basically acting as lawyers for the TSL players so youd contact ESF then ESF goes to the palyers to deliver the message and make sure they understand what you said then they bring you there reply this way no mistranslations or unclear concepts
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
Nice try.
Assisting players in finding new teams is a completely different scenario.
On January 08 2013 12:43 Arceus wrote: I find this post rather confusing. First they say any offer could be forwarded to players without being filtered, then they conclude that basically every teams need to go through this esf.juno dude???
Well, teams might not know how to contact the players. What is HyuN's email? Do you go through twitter? Call him perhaps? This just gives the teams that are interested a centralized channel and make sure the message will get to the players.
Obvious, foreign teams that are pretty established in Korea, EG, TL, etc might not need this. But it will help out other teams.
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
Wasn't this the entire fucking point of the ESF? To protect player interests? ESF is run by Gom..Gom hasn't shown to have done anything shady with the ESF power so far. Why are people always trying to cause drama over something. It says right in the OP, all offers will go unfiltered. Plus, now these players will actually know what they're signing instead of having no-name teams screwing over naive Korean players that don't know better.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
i dont remember the ESF doing as many shady douche moves as KeSPA though KeSPA were complete hard asses who wanted nothing more then complete control over everything and to show just how much control they had
ESF has been pretty civil and friendly
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
there basically acting as lawyers for the TSL players so youd contact ESF then ESF goes to the palyers to deliver the message and make sure they understand what you said then they bring you there reply this way no mistranslations or unclear concepts
If you can translate a contract into Korean, and have sources to confirm your legitimacy, I'm sure you can contact directly (or at least cc)
On January 08 2013 13:44 Treetop wrote: Wasn't this the entire fucking point of the ESF? To protect player interests? ESF is run by Gom..Gom hasn't shown to have done anything shady with the ESF power so far. Why are people always trying to cause drama over something. It says right in the OP, all offers will go unfiltered. Plus, now these players will actually know what they're signing instead of having no-name teams screwing over naive Korean players that don't know better.
Only a couple of hardcore pro-kespa trolls are trying to start trouble.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
i dont remember the ESF doing as many shady douche moves as KeSPA though KeSPA were complete hard asses who wanted nothing more then complete control over everything and to show just how much control they had
ESF has been pretty civil and friendly
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
there basically acting as lawyers for the TSL players so youd contact ESF then ESF goes to the palyers to deliver the message and make sure they understand what you said then they bring you there reply this way no mistranslations or unclear concepts
If you can translate a contract into Korean, and have sources to confirm your legitimacy, I'm sure you can contact directly (or at least cc)
when crank was still teamless and TB brought him to MLG he said that there were teams trying to fast talk him into a contract ESF has to be in the equation or people will abuse the TSL palyers lack of experience to trick them into a bad contract they'll regret
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
Nice try.
Assisting players in finding new teams is a completely different scenario.
dude and you think this is an assistance just because of the op? You know there are some things besides words, and if you see mcdonalds states it's food is healthy i recommend you to doubt a little. Basically beyond the esf statement is a simple fact: every contact goes through us, and it is exactly the same approach as the one kespa have shown before, yet ridiculous amount of drama/conspiracy was put into it immediately.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
rofl talking about "trust" in eSF. remember Coach Lee incident, Startale coach incident, Slayers incident etc? incident everywhere. Similarity? theres always someone apologizing for false information in the end.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
Nice try.
Assisting players in finding new teams is a completely different scenario.
dude and you think this is an assistance just because of the op? You know there are some things besides words, and if you see mcdonalds states it's food is healthy i recommend you to doubt a little. Basically beyond the esf statement is a simple fact: every contact goes through us, and it is exactly the same approach as the one kespa have shown before, yet ridiculous amount of drama/conspiracy was put into it immediately.
show me where mcdonalds saids a big mac is healthy
you really think the TSL players are experienced and skilled enough to negotiate a fair contract on there owns when they cant even understand the people there talking to? (most likely there going to get picked up by foreign teams)
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
i dont remember the ESF doing as many shady douche moves as KeSPA though KeSPA were complete hard asses who wanted nothing more then complete control over everything and to show just how much control they had
ESF has been pretty civil and friendly
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
there basically acting as lawyers for the TSL players so youd contact ESF then ESF goes to the palyers to deliver the message and make sure they understand what you said then they bring you there reply this way no mistranslations or unclear concepts
If by "everything" you mean the priorities of the players contracted with its affiliated teams, sure.
If by "civil and friendly" you mean being the proxy control organization of Blizzard (and that worked so well in Korea) or stirring shit with the circle-jerk hive mind, go ahead.
GOM is as power hungry as KeSPA. Difference is that GOM likes to play victim with the SC2-only crowd.
On January 08 2013 13:21 rj rl wrote: Fuck i love this community: - kespa says "hey if you want flash on your dreamhack you've gotta contact us first" and everyone is OMG screw you kespa y u no let players breathe free blabla; - esf says "if you want to sign one of these you've gotta contact us first" and suddenly it's OMG it's so nice, helping them young inexperienced boys to keep afloat blabla. i mean seriously the fuck is this
It is because Kespa has a bad past history with things like this.
It is similar to Flash getting hyped every time he wins a game (This is the FIRST time a terran have tech switch to BC in TvT, Flash with the meta game change!!!). The hype is because it is Flash and his previous history in BW.
We have seen many eSF --> foreigner team transfers so the experience with eSF has been better. Not saying eSF is flawless (Slayers incident) but the 'trust' level is slightly higher.
I'd say both organizations have things against them, lol. There were a number of incidents and who's to say it won't happen again? Flash not being able to go to DH is a totally different scenario, so I don't know why he brought it up at all.
i dont remember the ESF doing as many shady douche moves as KeSPA though KeSPA were complete hard asses who wanted nothing more then complete control over everything and to show just how much control they had
ESF has been pretty civil and friendly
I was asking that, say I wanna sign Hyun, should I contact one of him/eSF OR only eSF exclusively?
It's hard to tell from OP's words but judging from the TLDR, eSF gains exclusitivity to these players' transfering.
there basically acting as lawyers for the TSL players so youd contact ESF then ESF goes to the palyers to deliver the message and make sure they understand what you said then they bring you there reply this way no mistranslations or unclear concepts
If by "everything" you mean the priorities of the players contracted with its affiliated teams, sure.
If by "civil and friendly" you mean being the proxy control organization of Blizzard (and that worked so well in Korea) or stirring shit with the circle-jerk hive mind, go ahead.
GOM is as power hungry as KeSPA. Difference is that GOM likes to play victim with the SC2-only crowd.
usually when people make such claims they provide a source, or at least give some explanation to specific incidents
People are reading way too much into this. We don't even really know what the original signing process was for many of these players (did interested parties go through their current team? current coach? ask them directly?) much less what kind of negotiations actually occur. Streamlining the process through an official channel benefits everyone and helps prevent incidents like what happened with Stephano and CoL or apex and the former OGS players.
On January 08 2013 14:12 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote: People are reading way too much into this. We don't even really know what the original signing process was for many of these players (did interested parties go through their current team? current coach? ask them directly?) much less what kind of negotiations actually occur. Streamlining the process through an official channel benefits everyone and helps prevent incidents like what happened with Stephano and CoL or apex and the former OGS players.
considering how much TSL bitched when EG talked to Puma directly im assuming that the you have to go through the team to get to the player normally
On January 08 2013 14:34 IamPryda wrote: so can kespa players sign these guys also or would that violate the deal the esf and kespa made about taking each others players?
KeSPA teams should be able to since TSL disbanded so these guys arent on an EsF team just like how EG could snag JD
I actually really hope that Azubu picks up both Hyun and Symbol and that the team enters the next GSTL.
Personally I think this is a really solid move by esf and it feels like they are just trying to give these young guys guidance so they don't get used by other teams and signs bad contracts.
perhaps its to get the players a more reasonable deal as they may not have been contracted via salary before. Maybe theres been issues with lower salaries or something in contracts that has made korean signed players uncomfortable
As far as i remember juno lee aka azshara life is the guy who helped players like genius find a tean. I also know that he tweets to jessica a lot (like feiends do).
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
Considering how bad some foreign endeavors have turned out for the Korean players, I´m actually glad eSF takes responsibility to make sure their players are treated well.
Good move either way. Sure, you can still contact the players directly so what´s the butthurt? Even if it´s a power stunt, hopefully they just work for getting a good deal for the players involved. So many shitty orgs out there who would just contact hem and try t sign them.
On January 08 2013 16:05 docvoc wrote: I have a feeling Startales will pick up Symbol or Hyun, just because they lost partinG and they need to increase their zerg lineup.
PartinG was a protoss so I don't know why you would come to that conclusion. Since they just picked up Golden i'm not so sure they're still open for business, their line up has very strong zergs at the moment.
On January 08 2013 11:42 FXOBoSs wrote: My thoughts are that this didnt need to be made public. Rather it should have been emailed to the foreign organisations and ESF organisations.
This is clearly a power stunt.
Yeah, Composing emails to every foreign team in the world that could possibly want to sponsor or pick up a player.
Boy, wouldn't that be convenient.
I have to agree with Josh when I say some things are better to be kept behind closed doors. ESF are flaunting their position.
Literally the only argument against making it public that has been argued in this thread is that it makes them look like they're showing off. So what? They did a good thing. They're allowed to be proud of you know, helping professional gamers. Its their duty..
Whereas the positives include a show of goodwill towards the online community, greater communication and transparency between foreign and korean bases and more opportunities for korean players to get employed by advertising them on a popular SC2 site.
Stop being so negative.
Some of you have this ridiculous notion in your head that everything in the business needs to be transparent when in fact it's none of our bloody business. On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. It limits their opportunities but it looks like they're willing to accept it.
And some of you have this ridiculous notion that the ONLY reason eSF is doing this is to block Kespa teams. It is not like posting here gives them the legal rights to the players. I am sure players like HyuN/Symbol (ex BW pros) have plenty of Kespa contacts if that is the way they want to go.
No, and not ALL things need to be transparent. However, if there were to email this to ALL the foreigner teams, it pretty much becomes public domain anyways, does it not?
Look what happened to ex-OGS players and ApeX. Do we really want a repeat of that?
I said there's a possibility. Don't put words in my mouth and no it doesn't because emails are private lol. When you share it with everyone else, that's when it becomes public.
" On paper this is an open block. All they did was lock up these players from being picked up by the KeSPA teams as they could have. "
I am putting words in your mouth? Please read what you wrote.
Yes, and things like player deals before getting finalized (private dealings) NEVER get leaked, right? If a player dealing with 2-3 teams can get leaked. What do you think if they sent an email to the 30+ foreign teams?
No that's the worst case scenario. I wouldn't send an e-shot to every team in the first place. I would ask each player for a list of teams they're interested in and go from there. There's a lot of bullshit teams out there and you want them to contact some of your favorites? Hell no man. I wouldn't let a player get screwed over when I'm acting as their agent.
And then some shady team you've never heard of contacts your player directly anyway, and your player accepts due to money and promises. This would be a horrible way to conduct business.
Any news on where Shine and ValuE are going? Do they already have a team or are they just not relevant enough to be on the list? (Sorry I asked earlier but got no reply, been trying to look around to get info on them and can't find anything)
I think it's pretty cool that eSF are doing this. With young players that have little experience in contract negotiation when it comes to joining an eSports pro-team, it's important o have someone to help them. When there's this big of a language barrier as well, it's even more important.
Don't understand all the hate, it's like some people are hell-bent on being angry at eSF for some reason
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
They flat out said what they are trying to do. Don't be ignorant. These are young kids and they are helping them out in the negotiation process.
I still don't understand what they're actually doing to help them, though.
If the offers are going to be passed on to the players "unfiltered", and players still have a final say in the matter, then there's no point to having a middle man in the first place.
If they are only there to give advice to the players, I'm sure the players themselves know enough people in the pro scene to seek advice from, or eSF people could offer that advice without officially interposing themselves between the teams making the offer and the players.
Hmmm. I don't like the way that is done at all, seems like there basically saying, if you want to buy TSL players who have no contracts and are free agents, you must talk to ESF guys and former TSL Coaches. Smells like they want to take a peice of the $$s offered :S
Very silly way to go about it, im pretty sure they could of found teams on their own if they wanted too, especially with the amount of Koreans on foreign teams for example, they would just contact eachother over facebook/IMs/Skype etc, it doesn't need all this.
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
They flat out said what they are trying to do. Don't be ignorant. These are young kids and they are helping them out in the negotiation process.
I still don't understand what they're actually doing to help them, though.
If the offers are going to be passed on to the players "unfiltered", and players still have a final say in the matter, then there's no point to having a middle man in the first place.
If they are only there to give advice to the players, I'm sure the players themselves know enough people in the pro scene to seek advice from, or eSF people could offer that advice without officially interposing themselves between the teams making the offer and the players.
So you are saying if you were to sign a contract with Koreans you wouldn't want a middle man? Fuck yeah you would. You can't even understand the contract.
[b]Edit : ESF’s acting as agency for TSL has been given consent by TSL players, and has been notified to all teams in Korea. Let there be no mistake that eSF is doing this with no concern to opinion of players.
People are going to miss interpret this as an admission that you're doing it without consent of the players, because people are stupid. If you read this, you should say "Let there be no mistake, ESF is doing this with the consent of the players."
Anyway, good for you guys on trying to protect your players. I'm happy for it, and I'm sure the players involved are as well.
On January 08 2013 18:27 mikkmagro wrote: What happened with Venus, Cyrano, Shine and Mamuri? Why are they not getting help from eSF?
this is what I'm wondering, I remember seeing some recent games of ValuE and his previous games in the TSL4 qualifiers and his play style really intrigued me, curious to see if he's going to get a new team
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
They flat out said what they are trying to do. Don't be ignorant. These are young kids and they are helping them out in the negotiation process.
I still don't understand what they're actually doing to help them, though.
If the offers are going to be passed on to the players "unfiltered", and players still have a final say in the matter, then there's no point to having a middle man in the first place.
If they are only there to give advice to the players, I'm sure the players themselves know enough people in the pro scene to seek advice from, or eSF people could offer that advice without officially interposing themselves between the teams making the offer and the players.
So you are saying if you were to sign a contract with Koreans you wouldn't want a middle man? Fuck yeah you would. You can't even understand the contract.
I'm not interested in buying any of the players. Most foreign teams have access to Korean translators of their own, and it's the teams coming up with the contracts in the first place.
^Yes, I can confirm that I had noted his name in my head as that of a shitty, negative, (I think) sometimes-trolling waste of space, so I'm pretty sure he had that coming and just pushed to far this time.
On January 08 2013 10:27 Black Gun wrote: roflmao, esf trying to pull off a wannabe kespa regiment.
but good luck to all of them, they deserve to be on a fine team. no matter the way they find their new team.
They flat out said what they are trying to do. Don't be ignorant. These are young kids and they are helping them out in the negotiation process.
I still don't understand what they're actually doing to help them, though.
If the offers are going to be passed on to the players "unfiltered", and players still have a final say in the matter, then there's no point to having a middle man in the first place.
If they are only there to give advice to the players, I'm sure the players themselves know enough people in the pro scene to seek advice from, or eSF people could offer that advice without officially interposing themselves between the teams making the offer and the players.
So you are saying if you were to sign a contract with Koreans you wouldn't want a middle man? Fuck yeah you would. You can't even understand the contract.
I'm not interested in buying any of the players. Most foreign teams have access to Korean translators of their own, and it's the teams coming up with the contracts in the first place.
your assuming that the foreign team is playing nice and making sure that its clear and easy to understand without a middle man foriegn teams could fast talk one of the TSL palyers with what seems like a good contract but actually isnt what they want
hyun will easy get a foreign team symbol i think easy top korean team, center SHOULD get one too because he did so well in GSL hard for ragnarok as he is the most unknown one
I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
Isn't GOM the head of eSF now? If so it should be very easy for people to do actually since GOM has always been working with teams, other tournaments and organisations, etc. and most teams have had contact with GOM before. It could backfire but I think it's to prevent something like what happened to these ex-oGs players and so on. Just too many teams trying to quicktalk players to get them to sign bad contracts. I hope it works out well for them.
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
I have always felt like it would be really easy to rip off Koreans if you wanted to because of the language barrier and the fact that most Koreans arent gettng paid so they have no idea what they are actually worth or whats reasonable to ask for.
I wouldnt be surprised at all if it turns out that a lot of these Koreans on foreign teams are getting paid shit compared to the foreigners.
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Well, that is certainly one opinion.
I am just saying that the eSF should not babysit the player all the time and that the players should learn a bit about something as important as contract negotiations. The best way in my opinion is a direct contact between interested team and player, with eSF offering advice to the player and possibly intervening with a representative, should the player want it (e.g. if he is a bit overextended with the whole matter)*.
edit: *and intervention should the eSF think the player is being taken advantage of, ofc.
What about the other TSL players? Did they not agree to be represented by ESL or were they signed by a Korean team before ESL made this announcement to the foreign teams?
On January 09 2013 00:15 Eufouria wrote: What about the other TSL players? Did they not agree to be represented by ESL or were they signed by a Korean team before ESL made this announcement to the foreign teams?
I tried searching through liquipedia, couldn't find any information, I guess they are already in talks with teams and eSF is handling it? As the OP stated that all players agreed.
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Well, that is certainly one opinion.
I am just saying that the eSF should not babysit the player all the time and that the players should learn a bit about something as important as contract negotiations. The best way in my opinion is a direct contact between interested team and player, with eSF offering advice to the player and possibly intervening with a representative, should the player want it (e.g. if he is a bit overextended with the whole matter)*.
edit: *and intervention should the eSF think the player is being taken advantage of, ofc.
i guess your jsut for the korean players getting taken advantage of and put in a terrible contract :/
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Well, that is certainly one opinion.
I am just saying that the eSF should not babysit the player all the time and that the players should learn a bit about something as important as contract negotiations. The best way in my opinion is a direct contact between interested team and player, with eSF offering advice to the player and possibly intervening with a representative, should the player want it (e.g. if he is a bit overextended with the whole matter)*.
edit: *and intervention should the eSF think the player is being taken advantage of, ofc.
i guess your jsut for the korean players getting taken advantage of and put in a terrible contract :/
Nope, in my theoretic scenario that I proposed, I explicitly stated that I expect the eSF to intervene.
I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
There's already a trade lock on eSF players going to Kespa teams, so no clue why Boss is mad about that even though I agree that it's somewhat of a power play. I don't think it's the end of the world though and probably done because the team disbanded and a fair number of players hit free agency at once, so I don't mind it.
I haven't seen GOM really steer us wrong yet, so I hope nothing goes wrong with this either.
On January 09 2013 01:25 Martijn wrote: I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
most teams are struggling to stay afloat, any room in the budget they can make would be big
aside from Liquid, EG and the Korean teams i wouldnt trust the other teams to play 100% fair and its extremely likely that EG and TL wont be picking up many of them
we already know teams tried to fast talk crank into a bad contract (though TB remained hush onw aht teams) so it wouldnt be surprising that people would see the TSL palyers as a golden opportunity since they have noone to go to for advice and help if ESF didnt step in
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
Well, they can have exam the language of the offer and convey them to players. If not ALL offer must go through, then it would be pretty dumb for shady organizations to go to them instead of directly contact players, no? They may or may not have other reason / agendas but it makes sense.
If they only providing translating and counceling this is a very good thing to do! Any news on whether the trade ban with Kespa was released for the ex-TSL players? Kinda sounds like it in OP, the way it is worded.
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
to ensure the translations are understandable and understood by the player so they know exactly waht there signing
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
to ensure the translations are understandable and understood by the player so they know exactly waht there signing
They can act like an athlete's agent representing the players to accomplish that. But if a team wants to contact the player, I see no reason why they can't directly. The way I'm reading it, is that any team that is interested in a player MUST go through them. Not necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I think ESF wanting to help the players get a good contract is really great and important. But the way they came across felt like they wanted some control over the deal.
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
to ensure the translations are understandable and understood by the player so they know exactly waht there signing
They can act like an athlete's agent representing the players to accomplish that. But if a team wants to contact the player, I see no reason why they can't directly. The way I'm reading it, is that any team that is interested in a player MUST go through them. Not necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I think ESF wanting to help the players get a good contract is really great and important. But the way they came across felt like they wanted some control over the deal.
but if they dont go through ESF then they make a deal with the player that could be unfair it would be too easy to fast talk them with a deal that sounds good and rush them into signing
ESF is only there to make sure that the player knows what what and gets a fair contract
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
to ensure the translations are understandable and understood by the player so they know exactly waht there signing
They can act like an athlete's agent representing the players to accomplish that. But if a team wants to contact the player, I see no reason why they can't directly. The way I'm reading it, is that any team that is interested in a player MUST go through them. Not necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I think ESF wanting to help the players get a good contract is really great and important. But the way they came across felt like they wanted some control over the deal.
If it's not must, then shady orgs would never go through them, which defeats the whole purpose of the process, no?
Just a question. Isnt it better if ESF had come and said: " We (ESF) are providing juridic support for the former TSL players in his negotiations ... We want to help them find the best place ... "
this is a step that probably came about as a result of a large influx of foreign teams trying to sign former TSL players to disadvantageous contracts. eSF, in order to look out for its own players, made an offer to all former TSL players to handle some of the recruiting process with interested non-korean teams. it's possible that team members that are not listed already have plans or wish to stay in korea. i think in all likelihood, most of them will end up staying in korea playing on another esf of kespa team. I doubt hyun/symbol will stay free agents for very long unless they personally want to stay teamless
This isn't really that big of a deal. Having some kind of knowledgeable representation for professional players should be the norm. Not just for legal and language translation, but if only to just have a third and impartial body present to verify various communications and engagements in case the deal goes bad to prevent unnecessary mud slinging.
On January 09 2013 02:21 florious80 wrote: I do not understand why ESF needs to be the middle man when all of the offers will be "unfiltered" to the players. I'm in favor of ESF providing a good translator/helper for the players for negotiations when they ask for someone. If the offers truly goes through without modification, I don't see why ALL the offers must go through ESF to begin with. This is of course assuming teams knows how to contact the players in the first place.
to ensure the translations are understandable and understood by the player so they know exactly waht there signing
They can act like an athlete's agent representing the players to accomplish that. But if a team wants to contact the player, I see no reason why they can't directly. The way I'm reading it, is that any team that is interested in a player MUST go through them. Not necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I think ESF wanting to help the players get a good contract is really great and important. But the way they came across felt like they wanted some control over the deal.
In pro sports you have contracts that are pretty standardized, in SC2 they can have all sorts of terms like streaming, paying for food and rent, certain equipment, etc. Language barriers aren't that big of a problem in sports because you have a solid idea of what you're getting and what you're giving.
SC2 isn't like that and there's a very high chance of misunderstandings. Some of these SC2 players aren't even adults and might not be comfortable advocating for themselves and asking tough questions or for clarification.
So it makes sense for ESF to say that there will be a process for recruiting their players--ESF must ensure that the terms of their offer is translated and understandable to the player. I don't have a problem with it if they don't overstep that role.
On January 09 2013 02:45 EliteSK wrote: There's already a trade lock on eSF players going to Kespa teams, so no clue why Boss is mad about that even though I agree that it's somewhat of a power play. I don't think it's the end of the world though and probably done because the team disbanded and a fair number of players hit free agency at once, so I don't mind it.
I haven't seen GOM really steer us wrong yet, so I hope nothing goes wrong with this either.
On January 09 2013 09:18 Dodgin wrote: SlayerS was part of the trade lock, but they weren't ESF, and they disbanded.
Probably some weird loophole involved with that.
they probably just went with it to avoid getting singled out by the entire Korean community and becuase the trade lock benefited them as much as everyone else
On January 09 2013 01:25 Martijn wrote: I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:42 Forikorder wrote:
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
most teams are struggling to stay afloat, any room in the budget they can make would be big
aside from Liquid, EG and the Korean teams i wouldnt trust the other teams to play 100% fair and its extremely likely that EG and TL wont be picking up many of them
we already know teams tried to fast talk crank into a bad contract (though TB remained hush onw aht teams) so it wouldnt be surprising that people would see the TSL palyers as a golden opportunity since they have noone to go to for advice and help if ESF didnt step in
You're joking right? The only teams in a tough spot are the esf teams and the teams funded by private capital. The majority of the western teams are in better financial state than they ever have been.
I'm obviously not going to get into the details of our budget, but we have more money to spend than ever. Most teams are definitely NOT "struggling to stay afloat". That's nuts! Many player and sponsor contracts run out at the end of December, that's why things might have seemed unstable.
I think it's good that eSF takes an advisory role, but your arguments are pure and utter nonsense! Edit: How are you even making this stuff up?
On January 09 2013 01:25 Martijn wrote: I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:42 Forikorder wrote:
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
most teams are struggling to stay afloat, any room in the budget they can make would be big
aside from Liquid, EG and the Korean teams i wouldnt trust the other teams to play 100% fair and its extremely likely that EG and TL wont be picking up many of them
we already know teams tried to fast talk crank into a bad contract (though TB remained hush onw aht teams) so it wouldnt be surprising that people would see the TSL palyers as a golden opportunity since they have noone to go to for advice and help if ESF didnt step in
You're joking right? The only teams in a tough spot are the esf teams and the teams funded by private capital. The majority of the western teams are in better financial state than they ever have been.
I'm obviously not going to get into the details of our budget, but we have more money to spend than ever. Most teams are definitely NOT "struggling to stay afloat". That's nuts! Many player and sponsor contracts run out at the end of December, that's why things might have seemed unstable.
I think it's good that eSF takes an advisory role, but your arguments are pure and utter nonsense! Edit: How are you even making this stuff up?
i dont see how you can say that teams are in an amazing financial position when Quantic recently went broke and imploded
On January 09 2013 09:07 Solarsail wrote: Doesn't apply to dead teams. SKT picked up Dark.
It didn't apply for SlayerS because they weren't in the eSF. TSL on the other hand were and they were registered for the lock as a member of the eSF teams. Unless there is some weird technical reason why dead teams would change the matter im sure it still applies.
On January 09 2013 09:07 Solarsail wrote: Doesn't apply to dead teams. SKT picked up Dark.
It didn't apply for SlayerS because they weren't in the eSF. TSL on the other hand were and they were registered for the lock as a member of the eSF teams. Unless there is some weird technical reason why dead teams would change the matter im sure it still applies.
On January 09 2013 01:25 Martijn wrote: I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:42 Forikorder wrote:
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
most teams are struggling to stay afloat, any room in the budget they can make would be big
aside from Liquid, EG and the Korean teams i wouldnt trust the other teams to play 100% fair and its extremely likely that EG and TL wont be picking up many of them
we already know teams tried to fast talk crank into a bad contract (though TB remained hush onw aht teams) so it wouldnt be surprising that people would see the TSL palyers as a golden opportunity since they have noone to go to for advice and help if ESF didnt step in
You're joking right? The only teams in a tough spot are the esf teams and the teams funded by private capital. The majority of the western teams are in better financial state than they ever have been.
I'm obviously not going to get into the details of our budget, but we have more money to spend than ever. Most teams are definitely NOT "struggling to stay afloat". That's nuts! Many player and sponsor contracts run out at the end of December, that's why things might have seemed unstable.
I think it's good that eSF takes an advisory role, but your arguments are pure and utter nonsense! Edit: How are you even making this stuff up?
i dont see how you can say that teams are in an amazing financial position when Quantic recently went broke and imploded
Quantic lasted what, just 2 years? And that's 1 team. With a roster that was way too big to keep. It blows my mind where you get these arguments. The fact that their sponsor just decided one day to quit and that they had no fall-back certainly doesn't speak for financial stability.
If you look at the established teams, they're in a better spot than ever. A good number of teams resigned sponsors for 2013, a few switched.
On January 09 2013 01:25 Martijn wrote: I'm with the people that believe eSF should have an advisory role, I'm not sure what "preparations with negotiations" entails, but if it's limited to advice/translations, than I'm all for it.
On January 08 2013 23:42 Forikorder wrote:
On January 08 2013 23:31 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't know. I would've preferred if the eSF just offered (hidden) advice to the players, with the possibility that the player can apply for representative negotiate in his stead, instead of channeling all negotiations through them. Even if they mean no harm to the players, such a move will ultimately harm the players as it makes them less easily approachable. Teams who thought of hiring them might think twice if they have to go through eSF, especially since the majority of the people probably don't know what the eSF is (what is their structure, who makes the decisions, what are the official channels).
if a team doesnt know what the eSF is then they have no right trying to snag such a top player
if a team didnt go through eSF then its very likely that the palyer gets a bad contract without realising it
Wait, why is this "very likely"? Do you have no faith in the established progaming teams? I could understand people saying this about relatively new teams, and teams that have foul reputations. But most established teams know that what's best for the player often aligns with what's best for the team.
most teams are struggling to stay afloat, any room in the budget they can make would be big
aside from Liquid, EG and the Korean teams i wouldnt trust the other teams to play 100% fair and its extremely likely that EG and TL wont be picking up many of them
we already know teams tried to fast talk crank into a bad contract (though TB remained hush onw aht teams) so it wouldnt be surprising that people would see the TSL palyers as a golden opportunity since they have noone to go to for advice and help if ESF didnt step in
You're joking right? The only teams in a tough spot are the esf teams and the teams funded by private capital. The majority of the western teams are in better financial state than they ever have been.
I'm obviously not going to get into the details of our budget, but we have more money to spend than ever. Most teams are definitely NOT "struggling to stay afloat". That's nuts! Many player and sponsor contracts run out at the end of December, that's why things might have seemed unstable.
I think it's good that eSF takes an advisory role, but your arguments are pure and utter nonsense! Edit: How are you even making this stuff up?
i dont see how you can say that teams are in an amazing financial position when Quantic recently went broke and imploded
Quantic lasted what, just 2 years? And that's 1 team. With a roster that was way too big to keep. It blows my mind where you get these arguments. The fact that their sponsor just decided one day to quit and that they had no fall-back certainly doesn't speak for financial stability.
If you look at the established teams, they're in a better spot than ever. A good number of teams resigned sponsors for 2013, a few switched.
The problem with Quantic was that they relied on private investors, not sponsors. Sponsored teams are way more stable. If private investors pull out, your organisation can just pack its bags. Sponsorships involve negotiations, and you'd know from before when a sponsorship agreement will come to an end, and you plan ahead accordingly, by either trying to renew, or to look for new sponsors. Unfortunately, not many organisations get the huge amount of sponsorship money required to stay operational, but those few are very stable, such as EG, SK, Mouz, Acer, Dignitas, Millenium etc. I'm presuming Western Wolves as well ^^
EPT
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First google result+zerg
people watch too much tv
