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Update: so I made a rating system (and a website) - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-13 01:40:54
December 13 2012 01:36 GMT
#101
Have you considered separate ratings for Korean leagues and international tournaments?
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1311 Posts
December 13 2012 02:40 GMT
#102
On December 13 2012 08:03 BluePanther wrote:
Neat tool, but I'm not sure I can take any rating system seriously that has Stephano so low... He's obviously a top 40 player. Is there something I'm missing?


Yes, you're placing your own opinions higher than the actual data. Stephano has lost 60% of his games in the last month. He's on a downtrend, and that's what the data is showing. The numbers don't lie.
STX Fighting!
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1311 Posts
December 13 2012 02:45 GMT
#103
As someone with a mathematics degree, I love the site, awesome job. The only thing I'd like to see is Ratings Peak on the player page. Otherwise, very informative, and I like the period size, good call on that.
STX Fighting!
Gihi
Profile Joined September 2011
384 Posts
December 13 2012 03:19 GMT
#104
I discovered a bug.
Mvp is not on #1
SpaceFighting
Profile Joined January 2010
New Zealand690 Posts
December 13 2012 03:54 GMT
#105
On December 13 2012 12:19 Gihi wrote:
I discovered a bug.
Mvp is not on #1


LOL, all joking aside ive bookmarked the website and will use it to keep tabs on the players xD i really love it. thanks
kuz pro
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 13 2012 14:02 GMT
#106
Whoa, just realised there have been more posts here.

Thanks for all the feedback and nice words . What I think I will prioritise next is:

– Overview over games. (So that it's transparent how a player has gotten the rating he or she has.)
– Prediction tool for best-of-N matches (nothing more fancy than that to begin with.)

I hear what you're all saying about the volatility, and I guess maybe I went a bit overboard. This system is optimised for predictiability, and one that is less volatile will tend to suffer more upsets than it should, but it seems what people really want is a system that is a little more in line with how we judge performances over time. Which is fair. So here is what I could do:

(a) Lower the volatility in the future. This will stabilise things a bit, but will negatively impact predictive power.
(b) Lower the volatility and recompute all ratings from the start. It's difficult to say what the latest rating list will look like in this case.
(c) Publish two concurrent ratings, one volatile for predictions and one less volatile for rankings. I'm afraid this might confuse people.
(d) ... any other ideas?
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
December 13 2012 14:13 GMT
#107
On December 13 2012 06:23 Apolo wrote:
Really nice work :O added to favorites ! I just don't understand how come Mvp doesn't even make it to top 10, and someone like INnoVation who i've never heard of is ranked no. 4 O_o


Innovation is Bogus.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
LockeTazeline
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
2390 Posts
December 13 2012 15:14 GMT
#108
On December 13 2012 23:02 TheBB wrote:
Whoa, just realised there have been more posts here.

Thanks for all the feedback and nice words . What I think I will prioritise next is:

– Overview over games. (So that it's transparent how a player has gotten the rating he or she has.)
– Prediction tool for best-of-N matches (nothing more fancy than that to begin with.)

I hear what you're all saying about the volatility, and I guess maybe I went a bit overboard. This system is optimised for predictiability, and one that is less volatile will tend to suffer more upsets than it should, but it seems what people really want is a system that is a little more in line with how we judge performances over time. Which is fair. So here is what I could do:

(a) Lower the volatility in the future. This will stabilise things a bit, but will negatively impact predictive power.
(b) Lower the volatility and recompute all ratings from the start. It's difficult to say what the latest rating list will look like in this case.
(c) Publish two concurrent ratings, one volatile for predictions and one less volatile for rankings. I'm afraid this might confuse people.
(d) ... any other ideas?


Greedy me loves c.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
December 14 2012 03:33 GMT
#109
On December 13 2012 23:02 TheBB wrote:
Whoa, just realised there have been more posts here.

Thanks for all the feedback and nice words . What I think I will prioritise next is:

– Overview over games. (So that it's transparent how a player has gotten the rating he or she has.)
– Prediction tool for best-of-N matches (nothing more fancy than that to begin with.)

I hear what you're all saying about the volatility, and I guess maybe I went a bit overboard. This system is optimised for predictiability, and one that is less volatile will tend to suffer more upsets than it should, but it seems what people really want is a system that is a little more in line with how we judge performances over time. Which is fair. So here is what I could do:

(a) Lower the volatility in the future. This will stabilise things a bit, but will negatively impact predictive power.
(b) Lower the volatility and recompute all ratings from the start. It's difficult to say what the latest rating list will look like in this case.
(c) Publish two concurrent ratings, one volatile for predictions and one less volatile for rankings. I'm afraid this might confuse people.
(d) ... any other ideas?

Those are great ways to streamline, I think.

Perhaps you could add some options to filter the data. Your periods are rather small in terms of how you're actually presenting the data you have, perhaps you could make it adjustable, or give a few options.

Say you'd have:
A: The current short periods
B: A monthly tracker
C: The last 6 months

Or any variation thereof I suppose. Again though, perhaps that clutters things up too much/makes it a lot more difficult to design the website.

At the guy who said to separate Korean tournaments and foreign ones. I actually like that the BB isn't doing that thus far. Considering many of the high end tournaments are almost exclusively Korean nowadays the TLPD Korean/International distinction almost seems updated in terms of getting a good sense of where people are at in certain matchups.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
December 14 2012 11:37 GMT
#110
great stuff, bookmarked.
The heart's eternal vow
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
December 14 2012 12:19 GMT
#111
Brilliant work, thank you!
If you can chill.. Chill!
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
December 14 2012 12:38 GMT
#112
I like this a lot! Suprising to see RangeD as XvT specialist though, haven't even seen any games with him.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Conti
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2516 Posts
December 14 2012 12:44 GMT
#113
On December 13 2012 23:02 TheBB wrote:
Whoa, just realised there have been more posts here.

Thanks for all the feedback and nice words . What I think I will prioritise next is:

– Overview over games. (So that it's transparent how a player has gotten the rating he or she has.)
– Prediction tool for best-of-N matches (nothing more fancy than that to begin with.)

I hear what you're all saying about the volatility, and I guess maybe I went a bit overboard. This system is optimised for predictiability, and one that is less volatile will tend to suffer more upsets than it should, but it seems what people really want is a system that is a little more in line with how we judge performances over time. Which is fair. So here is what I could do:

(a) Lower the volatility in the future. This will stabilise things a bit, but will negatively impact predictive power.
(b) Lower the volatility and recompute all ratings from the start. It's difficult to say what the latest rating list will look like in this case.
(c) Publish two concurrent ratings, one volatile for predictions and one less volatile for rankings. I'm afraid this might confuse people.
(d) ... any other ideas?

I would be really curious about c. Not as a permanent solution, but just to see how the rankings differ. My guess is that, no matter the ranking, there will be people complaining because some long-time player is not high enough, or some up and coming player is ranked too low, etc., and I kinda doubt a different ranking will change that. Still, I'd be curious to see the difference.
MarcoBrei
Profile Joined May 2011
Brazil66 Posts
December 14 2012 15:54 GMT
#114
nice work, but sc2proranks.com is better.
KumihO.
Profile Joined December 2012
United States55 Posts
December 14 2012 15:56 GMT
#115
Wow. Now I have some stuff to explore. Thank you so much :D
frogrubdown
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1266 Posts
December 14 2012 16:36 GMT
#116
On December 15 2012 00:54 MarcoBrei wrote:
nice work, but sc2proranks.com is better.


I would have expected some form of justification for this claim, but having checked out the site I can see why you didn't offer any.

Simply put, they don't have any serious justification for the arbitrary values they assign in their rankings process. The process also contains obvious flaws, such as treating all placements of a given sort equally rather than assessing runs by the actual opponents beaten along the way.

Why should anyone trust them over a method that aims for and tests itself against accurate predictions?
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 20:51:19
December 14 2012 20:44 GMT
#117
I added some results lists, so that people can see where the numbers come from, more or less.

If you now open a player page you will see, immediately below the graph, a list of games that have been added and which are scheduled for inclusion in the next period.

In the table for historical data, you will also see a "details" link. If you click it, you can see some information about the rating calculation for that player for that period. It shows which games were included, the average rating of the opposition, and the expected score for the player given the opposition. You should see that the rating adjustments correlate with how much the player over- or underperformed. Note that the correlation isn't necessarily exact, since there are a few other factors that come into play (see the FAQ for more details on those.)

I also want to thank Conti, Grovbolle and KristofferAG for aiding me with populating the database with results.


On December 15 2012 00:54 MarcoBrei wrote:
nice work, but sc2proranks.com is better.

sc2proranks.com appear to be using a totally different idea. Of course while you are free to enjoy whatever system you desire, I don't particularly care for their method. Aligulac is more "results-oriented" (a player is rated above another if they can be expected to win vs. them right now) versus theirs which I would call "impact-oriented" (a player is rated above another if they were recently more in the spotlight), and like frogrubdown said, it's not at all clear how they come up with the values they use.

Oh, and aligulac.com is totally better looking. </shameless plug>
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
December 14 2012 22:44 GMT
#118
On December 15 2012 00:54 MarcoBrei wrote:
nice work, but sc2proranks.com is better.


That's an awful ranking system using prize pools of tournaments as a metric, rather than which opponents you're facing.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 23:16:51
December 14 2012 23:09 GMT
#119
This looks like a superb site! I've always liked the statistics you post in LR threads (they tend to be quite accurate as well), so with the new more up to date data base it'll be even better now. Good job!!

One thing would be nice: to be able to sort for the three vs race win rates, so you could quickly view the best vs Z players for example.
Get off my lawn, young punks
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
December 15 2012 01:12 GMT
#120
On December 15 2012 05:44 TheBB wrote:
I added some results lists, so that people can see where the numbers come from, more or less.

Show nested quote +
If you now open a player page you will see, immediately below the graph, a list of games that have been added and which are scheduled for inclusion in the next period.

In the table for historical data, you will also see a "details" link. If you click it, you can see some information about the rating calculation for that player for that period. It shows which games were included, the average rating of the opposition, and the expected score for the player given the opposition. You should see that the rating adjustments correlate with how much the player over- or underperformed. Note that the correlation isn't necessarily exact, since there are a few other factors that come into play (see the FAQ for more details on those.)

I also want to thank Conti, Grovbolle and KristofferAG for aiding me with populating the database with results.


Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 00:54 MarcoBrei wrote:
nice work, but sc2proranks.com is better.

sc2proranks.com appear to be using a totally different idea. Of course while you are free to enjoy whatever system you desire, I don't particularly care for their method. Aligulac is more "results-oriented" (a player is rated above another if they can be expected to win vs. them right now) versus theirs which I would call "impact-oriented" (a player is rated above another if they were recently more in the spotlight), and like frogrubdown said, it's not at all clear how they come up with the values they use.

Oh, and aligulac.com is totally better looking. </shameless plug>

So true!

I'd love to help out in some fashion, but am not the most mathematically inclined of folks. Hope feedback/ideas were helpful man, really think this project has some potential and the site looks damn sexy.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
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