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On December 15 2012 06:10 hillman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:48 DidYuhim wrote:On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. He must have have gotten some wrist problems trying to polish his micro and made a lot of unique and new game-changing builds that he became really known for. Maybe, he was one of the first players to change the key binding on "Terran Infestation" instead of getting new keyboards each time T gets broken. Sure, I'm being sarcastic, but his success is more related to the race dominance. Vortix becomes slightly better than most Europeans and occasionally beats a Korean...it must be because the game is broken. Yep, good call. True innovation is rare in this game, I hate to break it to you. Why is hero innovative? Because he started using warp prisms after they got buffed? Wow, that's some serious innovation. I don't deny he is a great talent, but does that mean he should beat great foreigners 100% of the time? My God the bias is outlandish here.
I hate to break it to you, but its clear that foreign Zergs are having an easier time beating Korean players. Why is this so hard to see? His example of Vortix isnt just talking about Vortix, but foreigner Zergs as a whole.
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On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling.
Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait..
Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this?
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Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this?
You just didn't get it, did you?
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On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote:Show nested quote + Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you?
Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page:
Capturing the spirit of our times.
That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished.
Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO
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Ok. I suppose that big of an article was a lot of work, pictures and all.
Feel better now?
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Bravo - fantastic read  thank you for all your effort put in!
I just watched the Polt grilled interiview, he mentions his justification for being noting as the best TvZ player, because he focuses on a single army. This correlates nicely with your view that players such as MMA (equally talented in there own way) are being penalised for playing a multitasking style (i,.e. looking away for a second from multiple locations).
I also agree about Blizzards agenda. Money is an overall goal for any organisations, no matter, as such. When considering the release of HOTS (zerg themed) and empthasise on trying to popularise SC2 esports (larger population than Korea) I do not doubt this has not crossed their mind at some point. Enjoyed your smart anaylise!
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On December 15 2012 09:05 WifWaf wrote:Bravo - fantastic read thank you for all your effort put in! I just watched the Polt grilled interiview, he mentions his justification for being noting as the best TvZ player, because he focuses on a single army. This correlates nicely with your view that players such as MMA (equally talented in there own way) are being penalised for playing a multitasking style (i,.e. looking away for a second from multiple locations). I also agree about Blizzards agenda. Money is an overall goal for any organisations, no matter, as such. When considering the release of HOTS (zerg themed) and empthasise on trying to popularise SC2 esports (larger population than Korea) I do not doubt this has not crossed their mind at some point. Enjoyed your smart anaylise!
Weird, I didnt emphasize with that point at all, I agree with everything else ... I even agree that more Viewers are more happy etc when a Foreigner beats a Korean in a Foreign tournament etc, but I dont rly like the idea about this being "planned".
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On December 15 2012 09:21 Daumen wrote:
Weird, I didnt emphasize with that point at all, I agree with everything else ... I even agree that more Viewers are more happy etc when a Foreigner beats a Korean in a Foreign tournament etc, but I dont rly like the idea about this being "planned".
Yea I understand what you mean about the there being a whole "conspiracey" idea, I peronsally find that a bit too extreme. However I felt I related with it being a more condoned affair. I.e. things are going this direction... let's leave it as / utalise it as it works in favour of , HOTS release, foriengers etc, which practicaly is a good marketing choice. But in my opinion surely they would have made this concious decision but definetly not "planned" from the start.
Yea I also agree with that point , Ultimately I feel it's about audience generation and profit even if it is at "pro player" expense, to a certain point.
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Im confused why this property doesnt echo back to the other races. the game was insanely imbalanced when it came out, shouldn't any protoss/terran who had any success and can no longer do anything be labeled a patch toss/terran
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Northern Ireland25332 Posts
Alas, I hate the calling out of talented and hardworking players like Vortix. No need for it, and it's overly harsh. Players like SortOf as well who wasn't a fulltime player until relatively recently get insulted for their choice of race.
Edit - nvm.
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On December 15 2012 06:23 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this?
On December 15 2012 06:44 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote: Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you? Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page: That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished. Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO
Smeared? Please, placing HerO and MMA as superior players is smearing now?
"Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. "
And this brother of his has beaten top Koreans? I actually don't know.
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On December 15 2012 10:15 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 06:23 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 06:44 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote: Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you? Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page: Capturing the spirit of our times. That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished. Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO Smeared? Please, placing HerO and MMA as superior players is smearing now? "Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. " And this brother of his has beaten top Koreans? I actually don't know.
Being discusted that "a player like Vortix" takes games of of them is not quite the same as placing HerO and MMA above Vortix.
Edit: I had to look it up but Lucifron recently beat Oz in IEM Singapore. He also lost to the eventual champion Sting 2-3.
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On December 15 2012 10:25 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:15 plogamer wrote:On December 15 2012 06:23 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? On December 15 2012 06:44 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote: Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you? Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page: Capturing the spirit of our times. That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished. Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO Smeared? Please, placing HerO and MMA as superior players is smearing now? "Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. " And this brother of his has beaten top Koreans? I actually don't know. Being discusted that "a player like Vortix" takes games of of them is not quite the same as placing HerO and MMA above Vortix.
It is. The person is disgusted that the state of balance can let a relatively unknown Zerg to beat HerO and MMA. Smearing someone would be to accuse them of being a criminal or something unrelated to the game.
And I really want to know. Does Lucifron play at the level of Koreans to help Vortix have as great a ZvT?
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On December 15 2012 02:13:
I completely agree with this entire post.
TvZ was the flag ship MU until Zergs received many patches that just made the game boring. When neutral Korean and foreign pros began to speak out about the imbalance, I knew there was an issue. It was easy to see for anyone who had played Terran at a relatively high level. I stopped playing myself after the queen buff because I began to lose to players I once used to dominate. TvT and TvP remained great, but you could easily tell that TvZ was not right.
As a player, I stopped playing several months ago. And I even reduced my consumption of sc2 because, as was stated, the games became more linear and predicable. Zergs turtled to infestor/bl or ultra and won. 11/11 rax had been neutered. reaper fe neutered. 2 rax variants, and even the hellion opener lost their potency.
PvZ showed the same problems. the MU was stale, as protoss was relegated to 2 base while Zergs were free to both take more bases and deny protoss bases with their mobility. zerg seemed to have it all: the strongest 200/200 army, the best static defense (wall of spines/spores for no supply), the best mobility (running zergling packs to deny/delay expos), ability to drop, burrow, burrow move (denying expansions, forcing obs. or scans, greater harass), the best macro (when zergs could lose over 100 drones in the early/mid game and win), and the best re-max (even with the best 200/200 supply army, zergs could also instantly re-max).
What confused me was the game design. How was it that the "swarm" race; ostensibly the race of "many weak units" became the race of the strongest unit composition in both MUs, and the ability to have "many" units with the re-max and static defense. As well as the huge pool of resources to support both of the aforementioned options due to superior macro mechanics.
How did Zerg receive all of these benefits? As someone who loves playing RTS games-- all of these factors leave one wondering how one race could have so many advantages relative to the others.
Zerg has every possible advantage, so it's little wonder we have seen so much domination on the part of foreign and Korean zergs.
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On December 15 2012 10:31 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:25 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 10:15 plogamer wrote:On December 15 2012 06:23 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? On December 15 2012 06:44 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote: Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you? Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page: Capturing the spirit of our times. That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished. Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO Smeared? Please, placing HerO and MMA as superior players is smearing now? "Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. " And this brother of his has beaten top Koreans? I actually don't know. Being discusted that "a player like Vortix" takes games of of them is not quite the same as placing HerO and MMA above Vortix. It is. The person is disgusted that the state of balance can let a relatively unknown Zerg to beat HerO and MMA. Smearing someone would be to accuse them of being a criminal or something unrelated to the game. And I really want to know. Does Lucifron play at the level of Koreans to help Vortix have as great a ZvT?
Come on, it's not necessary to actually name a player to make your point. Lots of Koreans have lost to foreigners from the start. It happens. What's with the last question? How are you reading in my comments that I think Lucifron is of top Korean level? There is just 1 foreigner imo that comes close and that is Stephano. But there are some others who can best them at times.
Recently mostly Zergs but also a lot of Protoss. Not many Terran but Lucifron is 1 of the few.
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In my opinion this thread is a bit too late as the meta game has shifted and the other races are showing signs of confidence versus the zerg race. The decline of the patch zergs could be the name of a new thread pretty soon.
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On December 15 2012 10:53 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:31 plogamer wrote:On December 15 2012 10:25 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 10:15 plogamer wrote:On December 15 2012 06:23 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 05:30 hillman wrote:On December 14 2012 15:25 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I watched very little of 2012 SC2, because of Zerg. And I play random. Just so boring, and seeing players like HerO and MMA and what not falling to someone like vortix, disgusts me to the very core of my being. Yeah I mean, how could Vortix actually be good? It's just outrageous that someone could put many hours of practice in and become consistently good. It's just appalling. Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? On December 15 2012 06:44 Penev wrote:On December 15 2012 06:34 4tre55 wrote: Nice to see that it has come to the point of naming the "patchzergs". Apparently nothing wrong with insulting a great player. Ver and or TL; When are you going to put an end to this? You just didn't get it, did you? Excuse me? For what it's worth: I totally get why the following is added on the front page: Capturing the spirit of our times. That doesn't mean that I'm ok with progamers being smeared by people in this thread unpunished. Edit: Did you not get that I'm agreeing with hillman and thus disagreeing with PlaGuE_R? oO Smeared? Please, placing HerO and MMA as superior players is smearing now? "Absolutely ridiculous indeed. How is his ZvT so "good". You'd almost think he has a brother that.. Oh wait.. " And this brother of his has beaten top Koreans? I actually don't know. Being discusted that "a player like Vortix" takes games of of them is not quite the same as placing HerO and MMA above Vortix. It is. The person is disgusted that the state of balance can let a relatively unknown Zerg to beat HerO and MMA. Smearing someone would be to accuse them of being a criminal or something unrelated to the game. And I really want to know. Does Lucifron play at the level of Koreans to help Vortix have as great a ZvT? Come on, it's not necessary to actually name a player to make your point. Lots of Koreans have lost to foreigners from the start. It happens. What's with the last question? How are you reading in my comments that I think Lucifron is of top Korean level? There is just 1 foreigner imo that comes close and that is Stephano. But there are some others who can best them at times. Recently mostly Zergs but also a lot of Protoss. Not many Terran but Lucifron is 1 of the few.
Agreed, it's not necessary (especially the strong choice of word "disgusted"), but that person is entitled to their opinion on the matter related to gaming skill on a gaming forum. You were accusing of "smearing", which I disagreed with.
The reason I ask of Lucifron's level of play is because you attributed Vortix's success in ZvT to the fact that Lucifron plays Terran. Unless Lucifron can play at that high a level, I don't know if practicing against him would be of much help to his brother when facing top Korean Terrans.
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Its funny that there are still people failing to pick up on the satire in the op lol. I mean even if you think its not well-executed satire, how could possibly take the conspiracy bit at face value?
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Good read. I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory! (wink, wink)
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I agree that Zergs have been given a lowered skill ceiling and an easier time playing at the top levels of play, but come on, conspiracy theories? lol
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EPT
