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Stop derailing this thread. This is an announcement concerning two players. If you want to talk about players who are not MajOr and LeiYa, you're in the wrong thread.
Thank you.
- Page 16 |
Good luck major!😃 You're an inspiration to us all
few ever try to reach their dreams. I hope you get there!
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Interesting choice wanting to go to a KeSPA Team being a foreigner player, and not a very successful one.
Anyway, good luck John/Juan
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MajOr, while you are indeed one of the best foreign terrans out there by your recent results, consider joining Team Liquid if things don't work out with the KeSPA teams  GLHF hope the best for MajOr.
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On November 27 2012 05:54 starchosengirl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 05:28 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 05:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 05:03 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 04:44 EchelonTee wrote:On November 27 2012 03:48 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 03:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 03:09 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 26 2012 23:44 CarlosOmse wrote:On November 26 2012 19:44 Xpace wrote:
[quote]
I'm guessing there are no mods on at the moment, 'cause he'd have been warned/banned for his first post alone.
It's all good if people switch genders, and it's great that TL is so accepting. But I sincerely hope that people don't overestimate, hype up, or go wild about the transgender thing. It's what happened with Scarlett - she's great, don't get me wrong, but from the very start when she was an obscure random name that beat a Korean, she was incredibly over-hyped (like when she got knocked out of the tournament I checked TL and there was already a 8 page fan club). still dont get it why they ban him fckin cencorship, he wasnt offending just telling his opinion .. i have no problem with transgenders but i still get his point, if hussein bolt would change sex and breaks all female running records is it fair/legit?? You forgot the crown rule of TL is; be nice, be safe, and avoid saying anything controversial in fear of the ban hammer as older men fear god; can be a mighty tool to avoid trolling but when freedom of expression has to be sacrificed in the name of peace and equality, how much do you value that peace and equality, knowing that it is only bestowed upon you by those who see you not as the person you are but simply a IP address and viewership number to be crushed like a bug if need be... Agreed, the fundamental point here to drive home is that pretty much any coverage of Scarlett has been on the lines of "this girl rocks the world, taking down all these men" etc etc... I'm sorry but the first thing that appeared when she joined Eclypsia was how it was awesome it was to have a successful woman pro-gamer who had a track record of sticking it to Koreans and that's how I've thought of her until now; I'm sorry but I feel so cheated having cheered her on all these times, telling people how PROUD I was that women were finally breaking through in SC and not just a side-game joke like SlayersEve vs ST-Aprodite, only to find out that the woman I was cheering on is a man in the process/who has become a woman? I'm sorry but this is a blatant manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community, because if Scarlett shows up BEING HER/HIS/IT's self and we don't get this "women can do it too" PR campaign there's nothing wrong, I had a girl in school who wanted to be a boy, changed her name and got the surgery as an adult, she(he) is cool now. I understand this wasn't her fault, she deserves the attention for her results and I'm sure everyone was just as confused about this, fair play. However it would be incredibly daft, unfair and problematic if either LeiYa or Scarlett are shone as the beacon of women gamers(I know LeiYa won't be as she was known as PuCK for ages now and was known as a man) when I'll go out on a limb and say that any female gamer's would not look to these two as their predecessors/idols, because at the end of the day, beyond all the 21st century, you can be who you want to be bollocks, these two WERE men, and may technically still be(I guess would make for the best kind of gay friend?) I'm going to refute my own advice and risk the banhammer by saying this; we as a community need to be very careful about idolizing/encouraging such intimate details about the lives of our stars, adding transgenders to the list of popular fringe personalities in the Starcraft community is IMO only going to keep us at the fringe of society, atleast while the community has so much dirty underwear floating around the internet(this being not the worst but maybe the oddest?). Although I understand transgender as a personal choice I think it begs the question if it is a personal issue why does it have any place being a well-known and accepted fact in the community? I don't exactly get how this "manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community" transpired, because if I remember correctly, Scarlett made a name for herself by playing in the IPL 4 open bracket and during the same event, if not within minutes of her video interview, someone on reddit posted claims about her being a transgender (mostly because of the adam's apple that was visible during the interview with Hot_Bid, as well as her voice seeming a bit weird) which was confirmed within hours. That's all I'm saying here, nobody was manipulated. This information has, for better or for worse, been made public from the get-go. I do agree that there's an excess of zeal in the moderation and banhammering of controversial posts on topics like transgendered people and even homosexuality, but you might want to take that one to the Website Feedback section. Well for someone like myself who has time to watch the games/read the highlights but couldn't give a rat's ass about interviews and other such stuff, this Scarlett thing went over my head until I read this post. Yeah, I'd checked her out and been like "no way"(tbh my radar was tingling when I first saw pics as well), but looking back this is the kind of stuff im referring to. Source:"Scarlett Joins Eclypsia" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329727Excerpt: "The 18 year old Canadian only started playing a year ago and first started to make a name for herself this Autumn, winning two Iron Lady Champion Cups".Ok so just to start off, why has nobody taken those titles off her and given them to the runner ups? As recently as 04/2012 it shows her winning an "Iron Lady Leetgion" Tournament, this must have been long after she had come out the the community, still shitting on real females in an all-girl cup, cleverly lying on this screen at ESL to do it: Requirements
Current requirements:
Gender Your gender has to be the following one.
Required gender: f
Gameaccount Players must have added the following gameaccount to their account to play in this league.
Type: StarCraft II Nick#Character code (Battle.net US) (click here to add)
min. members: 1 Next up we have this: Source:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene Excerpt: In July, Scarlett made history, being the first woman to win a major mixed gender championship as she won the Canadian national finals for the 2012 StarCraft II World Championship. A week later, Aphrodite, too, made history being the first woman to have a broadcasted game in GOMTV's SC2 production Scarlett is the first woman to win a major tournament and the only female player to win a national finals in WCS, not to mention a continental finals.I have made my point now what say thou? She was personally allowed by the organizers of those tournaments to play in them. Iron Lady cups fully knew the situation. Scarlett has never tried to hide her gender situation; it was almost immediately known after IPL. It is not her fault that you are unaware of these events and are only now outraged. Generally, people who identify as women are referred to as "female". It is clear that you cannot accept this, and there is nothing that can really be changed about that. While it is within your rights to have your opinions on the matters and I do hope that there isn't rampant mod action, it is quite insulting and hurtful to state that some people who identify as female should not be allowed to live how they would like to, just because it offends some people's sensibilities. I'm sorry and this may sound horribly 18th Century, but I don't "identify" as a man. I was born one, confirmed by a doctor with 10 years of education and extensive experience. It's written in your passport and that's that, Male or Female, some Men may be gay or want to be women, some women may want to be men , but your still defined by which genitals you are born with. Again, if you read my post, I couldn't give a rat's ass about how Scarlett or LeiYa choose to behave as long as they won't do it around me. I'm not taking away from their basic civil rights, I care about upholding the worthiness of a title like "first woman to...." when it's NOT TRUE. Don't you get it, at the bottom of it all. I take this community seriously but to me this would be like MVP going in the record books to have won his G5L trophy because he played in an online league once called G5L and won rather than what actually supposed to happen. You know, the way an actual woman was supposed to receive this accolade. Thus this title is a false flag operation, but hell obviously no one gives a shit about the integrity of the game, we just want to be all peace and happy and cool you can be who you want to be. G Honestly dude you're making a huge deal out of something that really isn't. In the end, it was up to the admins and participants to allow her to play in the tournament and since they were okay with that it doesn't really matter what your or I think. You're free to discredit her accomplishments but please don't act as if you have the authority to dictate what others should think and do, especially for a reason as pompous and self-righteous as "the bible of sc" (lol). Also you realize that you complained about over-moderation on this delicate topic (which I don't disagree with) and then proceed to try and force your own views upon others and tell them what to think and what's good for the scene? (lol; and also it's just your opinion) A bit hypocritical if you ask me. Anyway I recommend that you take a chill pill and focus on more important issues. That's the problem with the community, you take the outsider's view and just say "well thats wrong, thats dumb, why are you saying that" without addressing the content. Im not trying to silence other's opinions(moderation) I am stating my viewpoint in a convincing way. If you think calling a trans a defect is less insulting than what I posted, nice. I'm taking this seriously because I take this game seriously, and this community seriously. Without this we would not be the people we are today, and the lenient fashion you guys are acting ignoring the fact that I have shown you 2-3 examples of lies about Scarlett's accomplishments written incorrectly in her Liquipedia page, makes me believe you jsut dont care about this game and it's legacy as much as I do. If 61* was big because there were a few more games per season, imagine Scarlett*(technically a man but they let her play womens tournaments because she has a disorder that makes her feel like a woman). And Yes I own 2 copies of the SC Bible, have you even read it? Shall I start quoting you the quickest televised sc1 game, the longest, the best win streak? It exists already, it's not some figment of my imagination. And if the second one comes out years down the line to look back on WoL and I see Scarlett's name in it, best believe it will be a final reminder to how pathetically this community acted to preserve the honor of it's records. **** it, I declare myself GSL champion while I'm at it. i didn't know scarlett was actually a man untill I read her messages on stardusts twitch chat. clearly it's proof that men and women shouldn't be aloud to play games together because they don't type the same and clearly don't use the computer the same way. all gays/transvestites should be banned from esports forever NO EXCEPTIONS I hope you understand that what you're saying although true is ridiculous and you should focus on why you are giving israel 30 billion a year to bomb children and trying to stop that with the same passion, not if transvestites are beating BAD players in starcraft 2 tournaments that will never really matter,with the exception of wcs canada ..
well that escalated quickly.
can we simmer down on the trans talk? the anger over it is kinda ruining this awesome announcement.
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On November 27 2012 13:57 Ry2D2 wrote:MajOr, while you are indeed one of the best foreign terrans out there by your recent results, consider joining Team Liquid if things don't work out with the KeSPA teams GLHF hope the best for MajOr.
I don't know how interested liquid would be...Major is very skilled but he is definitely not necessarily the personality type for liquid.
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This thread reeks of people trying to delegitimise Scarlett's accomplishments. Take away the gender issue for a second - she still qualified as one of the best, if not THE best North American SC2 player in the scene. Her debut run at IPL was incredibly deep for an at-the-time unknown. How big of an issue is it really that she's winning Iron Lady and Zowie Divina and whatever other female tournaments? You don't see the other competitors on those competitions complaining about having to compete with her because of some conjectural-but-mostly-unproven advantage she may have because of her DNA. If they don't care, it's hard to see why anyone else should have an issue with it. And I find it hard to believe that whenever a "real" girl gamer does achieve success in the SC2 scene that she will begrudge Scarlett or LeiYa or anyone else the title of "first female to be able to compete with the boys" - that is, until people try to delegitimise her by accusing her of getting ahead through her looks, etc.
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On November 27 2012 13:40 MatiaasS ! wrote:
Interesting choice wanting to go to a KeSPA Team being a foreigner player, and not a very successful one.
Anyway, good luck John/Juan
They're looking for practice partners, so lack of success should not matter all that much.
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Anyone got numbers on how many team-switches Juan made this year?
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Major gave shout outs to a bunch of the Root members, but noticeably absent was their ace, Rotterdam. WHAT'S THE DEAL?! Obviously some drama between the two when you don't mention your team's top player, Rotti... *shakes head slowly, dramatically...*
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boxer -> oov ->fanta -> major??
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On November 27 2012 16:02 Tiazi wrote:
Anyone got numbers on how many team-switches Juan made this year?
he was on x6 then root. so many teams.
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United States23455 Posts
On November 27 2012 16:23 Louuster wrote:
boxer -> oov ->fanta -> major??
Major joins STX
Bogus -> BogusMan -> BogusBoy (Major's son Juanito Jr.)
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Major have said this have been his goal for years, I'm not sure why people are hyping it up now just because he leaves root. Good luck to him but I believe it when I see it.
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On November 27 2012 14:53 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:57 Ry2D2 wrote:MajOr, while you are indeed one of the best foreign terrans out there by your recent results, consider joining Team Liquid if things don't work out with the KeSPA teams GLHF hope the best for MajOr. I don't know how interested liquid would be...Major is very skilled but he is definitely not necessarily the personality type for liquid.
If we're brutally candid, he isn't handsome enough for Liquid. It's rather apparent that looks is one of the criteria for Liquid's hiring policy, and major doesn't exactly fit that profile. Would fit right in at EG, though.
Anyways, I think it'd be much cooler if he actually made it into SKT or any KESPA team indeed.
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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On November 27 2012 06:46 NumberFive wrote:Show nested quote + In 1991, Polgár achieved the title of Grandmaster at the age of 15 years and 4 months, the youngest person ever to do so at that time. interesting read. Also another example for this issue : Here, studying civil engineering, you don't see many women around. This is NOT because women are worse than men at math, but because parents/people automatically assume they are, based on social stereotypes ( engineers are men, nurses are women, elementary school teachers are women, secretaries are women and so on. ). Because they grow up with that in mind, they are unconsciously modelled like the society wants them to, thus they grow less interested in math and more interested in other things, IN GENERAL. nowadays, society grows more open minded and these shackles are starting to break, thus we're starting to see more women in math professions and vice-versa. Same for gaming. We don't have a huge sample of female sc2 gamers ( I heard CS has quite a community ? ) so we don't have a legit sample size to compare skill and performances. The female gaming community is so small, yet again because society grew up thinking boys plays videogames and girls play with dolls. People who notice that binding aspect either ignore it because being different than the rest is always frowned upon, either they embrace their true aspirations and do what they feel more comfortable doing ( girl gamers, male nurses etc. ) The ones who don't notice it, perpetuate the trend. I don't know if i'm getting the point across as it's badly exaplined, but I found the discussion earlier in this thread amazingly ignorant. also the wiki Lynda ( post above ) linked is pretty informative. This woman beats those chess grandmasters because she was raised like they were. Nothing stops women from being as good/better etc than men at chess, it's just society's not viewing chess as a women's sport, so the sample size is too small. Imagine chess was a sport accepted for both men and women, and there were champions raised like that on both sides equally, with an equal community behind it. The women and men would be as good as eachother in chess, the same goes for videogames. If videogames were accepted as a boy/girl thing, and a community develops where the female/male sample sizes are fairly equal, you could put men and women up against aechother in videogames and their results would be even. Nothing gives the one an advantage over the other.
This is a pretty beautiful post, it's the rationale behind many of my previous posts complaining over the coverage women E-sports have gotten thus far. They are pigeonholed into roles based on whether they are hot or not, or judged for their appearance over and above their abilities. There's a common misconception over many aspects of genderisation in society and what is 'natural'. One innocuous one is that pink is a feminine colour, which has actually changed over time.
Incidentally, I do take issue with some of what you say, but not necessarily because I disagree but because I am curious. I've often heard that women have better multitasking ability than men for example, and that would surely, if true reflect some kind of cognitive difference being displayed between the genders. Another factoid I read years a go, (and can't find the literature for) is that men and women have the same average IQs, but that men occupy the bottom and top 5% in much higher proportions than women.
Now, that's not necessarily evidence for inherent differences existing either, but it does raise the question as to why this is so. When referring to environmental/cultural reasons, the only guess I could provide is that perhaps males on average are treated somewhat differently at some formative stage of their cognitive development.
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On November 27 2012 05:54 starchosengirl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 05:28 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 05:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 05:03 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 04:44 EchelonTee wrote:On November 27 2012 03:48 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 03:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 03:09 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 26 2012 23:44 CarlosOmse wrote:On November 26 2012 19:44 Xpace wrote:
[quote]
I'm guessing there are no mods on at the moment, 'cause he'd have been warned/banned for his first post alone.
It's all good if people switch genders, and it's great that TL is so accepting. But I sincerely hope that people don't overestimate, hype up, or go wild about the transgender thing. It's what happened with Scarlett - she's great, don't get me wrong, but from the very start when she was an obscure random name that beat a Korean, she was incredibly over-hyped (like when she got knocked out of the tournament I checked TL and there was already a 8 page fan club). still dont get it why they ban him fckin cencorship, he wasnt offending just telling his opinion .. i have no problem with transgenders but i still get his point, if hussein bolt would change sex and breaks all female running records is it fair/legit?? You forgot the crown rule of TL is; be nice, be safe, and avoid saying anything controversial in fear of the ban hammer as older men fear god; can be a mighty tool to avoid trolling but when freedom of expression has to be sacrificed in the name of peace and equality, how much do you value that peace and equality, knowing that it is only bestowed upon you by those who see you not as the person you are but simply a IP address and viewership number to be crushed like a bug if need be... Agreed, the fundamental point here to drive home is that pretty much any coverage of Scarlett has been on the lines of "this girl rocks the world, taking down all these men" etc etc... I'm sorry but the first thing that appeared when she joined Eclypsia was how it was awesome it was to have a successful woman pro-gamer who had a track record of sticking it to Koreans and that's how I've thought of her until now; I'm sorry but I feel so cheated having cheered her on all these times, telling people how PROUD I was that women were finally breaking through in SC and not just a side-game joke like SlayersEve vs ST-Aprodite, only to find out that the woman I was cheering on is a man in the process/who has become a woman? I'm sorry but this is a blatant manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community, because if Scarlett shows up BEING HER/HIS/IT's self and we don't get this "women can do it too" PR campaign there's nothing wrong, I had a girl in school who wanted to be a boy, changed her name and got the surgery as an adult, she(he) is cool now. I understand this wasn't her fault, she deserves the attention for her results and I'm sure everyone was just as confused about this, fair play. However it would be incredibly daft, unfair and problematic if either LeiYa or Scarlett are shone as the beacon of women gamers(I know LeiYa won't be as she was known as PuCK for ages now and was known as a man) when I'll go out on a limb and say that any female gamer's would not look to these two as their predecessors/idols, because at the end of the day, beyond all the 21st century, you can be who you want to be bollocks, these two WERE men, and may technically still be(I guess would make for the best kind of gay friend?) I'm going to refute my own advice and risk the banhammer by saying this; we as a community need to be very careful about idolizing/encouraging such intimate details about the lives of our stars, adding transgenders to the list of popular fringe personalities in the Starcraft community is IMO only going to keep us at the fringe of society, atleast while the community has so much dirty underwear floating around the internet(this being not the worst but maybe the oddest?). Although I understand transgender as a personal choice I think it begs the question if it is a personal issue why does it have any place being a well-known and accepted fact in the community? I don't exactly get how this "manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community" transpired, because if I remember correctly, Scarlett made a name for herself by playing in the IPL 4 open bracket and during the same event, if not within minutes of her video interview, someone on reddit posted claims about her being a transgender (mostly because of the adam's apple that was visible during the interview with Hot_Bid, as well as her voice seeming a bit weird) which was confirmed within hours. That's all I'm saying here, nobody was manipulated. This information has, for better or for worse, been made public from the get-go. I do agree that there's an excess of zeal in the moderation and banhammering of controversial posts on topics like transgendered people and even homosexuality, but you might want to take that one to the Website Feedback section. Well for someone like myself who has time to watch the games/read the highlights but couldn't give a rat's ass about interviews and other such stuff, this Scarlett thing went over my head until I read this post. Yeah, I'd checked her out and been like "no way"(tbh my radar was tingling when I first saw pics as well), but looking back this is the kind of stuff im referring to. Source:"Scarlett Joins Eclypsia" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329727Excerpt: "The 18 year old Canadian only started playing a year ago and first started to make a name for herself this Autumn, winning two Iron Lady Champion Cups".Ok so just to start off, why has nobody taken those titles off her and given them to the runner ups? As recently as 04/2012 it shows her winning an "Iron Lady Leetgion" Tournament, this must have been long after she had come out the the community, still shitting on real females in an all-girl cup, cleverly lying on this screen at ESL to do it: Requirements
Current requirements:
Gender Your gender has to be the following one.
Required gender: f
Gameaccount Players must have added the following gameaccount to their account to play in this league.
Type: StarCraft II Nick#Character code (Battle.net US) (click here to add)
min. members: 1 Next up we have this: Source:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene Excerpt: In July, Scarlett made history, being the first woman to win a major mixed gender championship as she won the Canadian national finals for the 2012 StarCraft II World Championship. A week later, Aphrodite, too, made history being the first woman to have a broadcasted game in GOMTV's SC2 production Scarlett is the first woman to win a major tournament and the only female player to win a national finals in WCS, not to mention a continental finals.I have made my point now what say thou? She was personally allowed by the organizers of those tournaments to play in them. Iron Lady cups fully knew the situation. Scarlett has never tried to hide her gender situation; it was almost immediately known after IPL. It is not her fault that you are unaware of these events and are only now outraged. Generally, people who identify as women are referred to as "female". It is clear that you cannot accept this, and there is nothing that can really be changed about that. While it is within your rights to have your opinions on the matters and I do hope that there isn't rampant mod action, it is quite insulting and hurtful to state that some people who identify as female should not be allowed to live how they would like to, just because it offends some people's sensibilities. I'm sorry and this may sound horribly 18th Century, but I don't "identify" as a man. I was born one, confirmed by a doctor with 10 years of education and extensive experience. It's written in your passport and that's that, Male or Female, some Men may be gay or want to be women, some women may want to be men , but your still defined by which genitals you are born with. Again, if you read my post, I couldn't give a rat's ass about how Scarlett or LeiYa choose to behave as long as they won't do it around me. I'm not taking away from their basic civil rights, I care about upholding the worthiness of a title like "first woman to...." when it's NOT TRUE. Don't you get it, at the bottom of it all. I take this community seriously but to me this would be like MVP going in the record books to have won his G5L trophy because he played in an online league once called G5L and won rather than what actually supposed to happen. You know, the way an actual woman was supposed to receive this accolade. Thus this title is a false flag operation, but hell obviously no one gives a shit about the integrity of the game, we just want to be all peace and happy and cool you can be who you want to be. G Honestly dude you're making a huge deal out of something that really isn't. In the end, it was up to the admins and participants to allow her to play in the tournament and since they were okay with that it doesn't really matter what your or I think. You're free to discredit her accomplishments but please don't act as if you have the authority to dictate what others should think and do, especially for a reason as pompous and self-righteous as "the bible of sc" (lol). Also you realize that you complained about over-moderation on this delicate topic (which I don't disagree with) and then proceed to try and force your own views upon others and tell them what to think and what's good for the scene? (lol; and also it's just your opinion) A bit hypocritical if you ask me. Anyway I recommend that you take a chill pill and focus on more important issues. That's the problem with the community, you take the outsider's view and just say "well thats wrong, thats dumb, why are you saying that" without addressing the content. Im not trying to silence other's opinions(moderation) I am stating my viewpoint in a convincing way. If you think calling a trans a defect is less insulting than what I posted, nice. I'm taking this seriously because I take this game seriously, and this community seriously. Without this we would not be the people we are today, and the lenient fashion you guys are acting ignoring the fact that I have shown you 2-3 examples of lies about Scarlett's accomplishments written incorrectly in her Liquipedia page, makes me believe you jsut dont care about this game and it's legacy as much as I do. If 61* was big because there were a few more games per season, imagine Scarlett*(technically a man but they let her play womens tournaments because she has a disorder that makes her feel like a woman). And Yes I own 2 copies of the SC Bible, have you even read it? Shall I start quoting you the quickest televised sc1 game, the longest, the best win streak? It exists already, it's not some figment of my imagination. And if the second one comes out years down the line to look back on WoL and I see Scarlett's name in it, best believe it will be a final reminder to how pathetically this community acted to preserve the honor of it's records. **** it, I declare myself GSL champion while I'm at it. i didn't know scarlett was actually a man untill I read her messages on stardusts twitch chat. clearly it's proof that men and women shouldn't be aloud to play games together because they don't type the same and clearly don't use the computer the same way. all gays/transvestites should be banned from esports forever NO EXCEPTIONS I hope you understand that what you're saying although true is ridiculous and you should focus on why you are giving israel 30 billion a year to bomb children and trying to stop that with the same passion, not if transvestites are beating BAD players in starcraft 2 tournaments that will never really matter,with the exception of wcs canada ..
do you mean the children the palestines use as human shield? or the children from schools they use to launch their rockets from? or the ones in hospitals where they also launch rockets?
seriously, you're from Australia, how can you be so ignorant? go read and study instead of defecating in the forums.
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Woot!! Been waiting for this ;D
GL MajOr!!
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On November 27 2012 23:17 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 05:54 starchosengirl wrote:On November 27 2012 05:28 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 05:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 05:03 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 04:44 EchelonTee wrote:On November 27 2012 03:48 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 27 2012 03:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On November 27 2012 03:09 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On November 26 2012 23:44 CarlosOmse wrote:
[quote]
still dont get it why they ban him fckin cencorship, he wasnt offending just telling his opinion ..
i have no problem with transgenders but i still get his point, if hussein bolt would change sex and breaks all female running records is it fair/legit?? You forgot the crown rule of TL is; be nice, be safe, and avoid saying anything controversial in fear of the ban hammer as older men fear god; can be a mighty tool to avoid trolling but when freedom of expression has to be sacrificed in the name of peace and equality, how much do you value that peace and equality, knowing that it is only bestowed upon you by those who see you not as the person you are but simply a IP address and viewership number to be crushed like a bug if need be... Agreed, the fundamental point here to drive home is that pretty much any coverage of Scarlett has been on the lines of "this girl rocks the world, taking down all these men" etc etc... I'm sorry but the first thing that appeared when she joined Eclypsia was how it was awesome it was to have a successful woman pro-gamer who had a track record of sticking it to Koreans and that's how I've thought of her until now; I'm sorry but I feel so cheated having cheered her on all these times, telling people how PROUD I was that women were finally breaking through in SC and not just a side-game joke like SlayersEve vs ST-Aprodite, only to find out that the woman I was cheering on is a man in the process/who has become a woman? I'm sorry but this is a blatant manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community, because if Scarlett shows up BEING HER/HIS/IT's self and we don't get this "women can do it too" PR campaign there's nothing wrong, I had a girl in school who wanted to be a boy, changed her name and got the surgery as an adult, she(he) is cool now. I understand this wasn't her fault, she deserves the attention for her results and I'm sure everyone was just as confused about this, fair play. However it would be incredibly daft, unfair and problematic if either LeiYa or Scarlett are shone as the beacon of women gamers(I know LeiYa won't be as she was known as PuCK for ages now and was known as a man) when I'll go out on a limb and say that any female gamer's would not look to these two as their predecessors/idols, because at the end of the day, beyond all the 21st century, you can be who you want to be bollocks, these two WERE men, and may technically still be(I guess would make for the best kind of gay friend?) I'm going to refute my own advice and risk the banhammer by saying this; we as a community need to be very careful about idolizing/encouraging such intimate details about the lives of our stars, adding transgenders to the list of popular fringe personalities in the Starcraft community is IMO only going to keep us at the fringe of society, atleast while the community has so much dirty underwear floating around the internet(this being not the worst but maybe the oddest?). Although I understand transgender as a personal choice I think it begs the question if it is a personal issue why does it have any place being a well-known and accepted fact in the community? I don't exactly get how this "manipulation of the psyche of the Starcraft community" transpired, because if I remember correctly, Scarlett made a name for herself by playing in the IPL 4 open bracket and during the same event, if not within minutes of her video interview, someone on reddit posted claims about her being a transgender (mostly because of the adam's apple that was visible during the interview with Hot_Bid, as well as her voice seeming a bit weird) which was confirmed within hours. That's all I'm saying here, nobody was manipulated. This information has, for better or for worse, been made public from the get-go. I do agree that there's an excess of zeal in the moderation and banhammering of controversial posts on topics like transgendered people and even homosexuality, but you might want to take that one to the Website Feedback section. Well for someone like myself who has time to watch the games/read the highlights but couldn't give a rat's ass about interviews and other such stuff, this Scarlett thing went over my head until I read this post. Yeah, I'd checked her out and been like "no way"(tbh my radar was tingling when I first saw pics as well), but looking back this is the kind of stuff im referring to. Source:"Scarlett Joins Eclypsia" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329727Excerpt: "The 18 year old Canadian only started playing a year ago and first started to make a name for herself this Autumn, winning two Iron Lady Champion Cups".Ok so just to start off, why has nobody taken those titles off her and given them to the runner ups? As recently as 04/2012 it shows her winning an "Iron Lady Leetgion" Tournament, this must have been long after she had come out the the community, still shitting on real females in an all-girl cup, cleverly lying on this screen at ESL to do it: Requirements
Current requirements:
Gender Your gender has to be the following one.
Required gender: f
Gameaccount Players must have added the following gameaccount to their account to play in this league.
Type: StarCraft II Nick#Character code (Battle.net US) (click here to add)
min. members: 1 Next up we have this: Source:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene Excerpt: In July, Scarlett made history, being the first woman to win a major mixed gender championship as she won the Canadian national finals for the 2012 StarCraft II World Championship. A week later, Aphrodite, too, made history being the first woman to have a broadcasted game in GOMTV's SC2 production Scarlett is the first woman to win a major tournament and the only female player to win a national finals in WCS, not to mention a continental finals.I have made my point now what say thou? She was personally allowed by the organizers of those tournaments to play in them. Iron Lady cups fully knew the situation. Scarlett has never tried to hide her gender situation; it was almost immediately known after IPL. It is not her fault that you are unaware of these events and are only now outraged. Generally, people who identify as women are referred to as "female". It is clear that you cannot accept this, and there is nothing that can really be changed about that. While it is within your rights to have your opinions on the matters and I do hope that there isn't rampant mod action, it is quite insulting and hurtful to state that some people who identify as female should not be allowed to live how they would like to, just because it offends some people's sensibilities. I'm sorry and this may sound horribly 18th Century, but I don't "identify" as a man. I was born one, confirmed by a doctor with 10 years of education and extensive experience. It's written in your passport and that's that, Male or Female, some Men may be gay or want to be women, some women may want to be men , but your still defined by which genitals you are born with. Again, if you read my post, I couldn't give a rat's ass about how Scarlett or LeiYa choose to behave as long as they won't do it around me. I'm not taking away from their basic civil rights, I care about upholding the worthiness of a title like "first woman to...." when it's NOT TRUE. Don't you get it, at the bottom of it all. I take this community seriously but to me this would be like MVP going in the record books to have won his G5L trophy because he played in an online league once called G5L and won rather than what actually supposed to happen. You know, the way an actual woman was supposed to receive this accolade. Thus this title is a false flag operation, but hell obviously no one gives a shit about the integrity of the game, we just want to be all peace and happy and cool you can be who you want to be. G Honestly dude you're making a huge deal out of something that really isn't. In the end, it was up to the admins and participants to allow her to play in the tournament and since they were okay with that it doesn't really matter what your or I think. You're free to discredit her accomplishments but please don't act as if you have the authority to dictate what others should think and do, especially for a reason as pompous and self-righteous as "the bible of sc" (lol). Also you realize that you complained about over-moderation on this delicate topic (which I don't disagree with) and then proceed to try and force your own views upon others and tell them what to think and what's good for the scene? (lol; and also it's just your opinion) A bit hypocritical if you ask me. Anyway I recommend that you take a chill pill and focus on more important issues. That's the problem with the community, you take the outsider's view and just say "well thats wrong, thats dumb, why are you saying that" without addressing the content. Im not trying to silence other's opinions(moderation) I am stating my viewpoint in a convincing way. If you think calling a trans a defect is less insulting than what I posted, nice. I'm taking this seriously because I take this game seriously, and this community seriously. Without this we would not be the people we are today, and the lenient fashion you guys are acting ignoring the fact that I have shown you 2-3 examples of lies about Scarlett's accomplishments written incorrectly in her Liquipedia page, makes me believe you jsut dont care about this game and it's legacy as much as I do. If 61* was big because there were a few more games per season, imagine Scarlett*(technically a man but they let her play womens tournaments because she has a disorder that makes her feel like a woman). And Yes I own 2 copies of the SC Bible, have you even read it? Shall I start quoting you the quickest televised sc1 game, the longest, the best win streak? It exists already, it's not some figment of my imagination. And if the second one comes out years down the line to look back on WoL and I see Scarlett's name in it, best believe it will be a final reminder to how pathetically this community acted to preserve the honor of it's records. **** it, I declare myself GSL champion while I'm at it. i didn't know scarlett was actually a man untill I read her messages on stardusts twitch chat. clearly it's proof that men and women shouldn't be aloud to play games together because they don't type the same and clearly don't use the computer the same way. all gays/transvestites should be banned from esports forever NO EXCEPTIONS I hope you understand that what you're saying although true is ridiculous and you should focus on why you are giving israel 30 billion a year to bomb children and trying to stop that with the same passion, not if transvestites are beating BAD players in starcraft 2 tournaments that will never really matter,with the exception of wcs canada .. do you mean the children the palestines use as human shield? or the children from schools they use to launch their rockets from? or the ones in hospitals where they also launch rockets? seriously, you're from Australia, how can you be so ignorant? go read and study instead of defecating in the forums.
He is ignorant and the Palestine/Israel relationship is a muddled mess where atrocities are committed by both sides, justified or not I won't say.
But the person who was arguing that transgender people are only defined by the way they're born is ignorant as well. If a post-op or mid transition trans person wants to identify with either gender it should be a non issue. In this case Scarlett IDENTIFIES as female and the event managers agreed with that identification so those poeple who claim that she shouldn't be able to participate and be stripped of her awards because she was a he is utter bonkers.
Arguing like this doesn't get anything done and just creates this sort of stupid drama that has begun to define this community, for better or worse.
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Guys, is it ok if I just want to congratulate Leiya on getting back on ROOT and MaJoR for pursuing his dreams? I mean, I don't want to get in the way of debating the middle east conflict...
SKT1.Princess Hwaiting! 
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