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On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low.
It does not follow that because she was the team manager that if the team fails it's her fault.
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On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low.
I'm still not convinced she did much wrong during the whole ordeal, maybe she overreacted with Crank but other than that it seems like a lot of the dissolution is on the players being spoiled/being manipulated by this manager J guy (is his name not disclosed for legal reasons or something?) and SlayerS being black-balled by the ESF. In terms of her taking money from the players that doesn't seem to be true.
Where Jessica really comes off as being fucked in the head is her reaction after the fact. I get wanting to keep your name clean but if SlayerS simply disbanded without her ripping the players on her team her name never would've been tarnished in the first place, so the way she came out with all of these interviews and recorded e-mails and phone calls seems like an overreaction. I do think though that she had every right to rip the ESF the way she did but calling out MMA, Alicia, MC doesn't really do much for her.
That doesn't mean she needs to be blamed for being the cancer that ruined Slayers as some people are suggesting, cause frankly there's not much actual proof that backs that up.
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On October 23 2012 23:22 Art.FeeL wrote:
From the phone convo I say that CranK is one heck of a crybaby. He seems so weak mentally and emotionally. In the end. it was fault of both parties. Crank for his dodging and not being direct and Jessica's for her authoritativeness.
You ever suffered in a terrible working environment where you just tried to do your best? Ever had a couple of people senior to you tell you it was all your fault that an entire dream and people's livelihoods went down the drain? And who were your bosses no less. How about a neck injury? Harassment via Twitter and reporters calling you all the time?
He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that.
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This drama isn't very fun anymore 
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On October 23 2012 23:26 zidaneshead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low. I'm still not convinced she did much wrong during the whole ordeal, maybe she overreacted with Crank but other than that it seems like a lot of the dissolution is on the players being spoiled/being manipulated by this manager J guy (is his name not disclosed for legal reasons or something?) and SlayerS being black-balled by the ESF. In terms of her taking money from the players that doesn't seem to be true. Where Jessica really comes off as being fucked in the head is her reaction after the fact. I get wanting to keep your name clean but if SlayerS simply disbanded without her ripping the players on her team her name never would've been tarnished in the first place, so the way she came out with all of these interviews and recorded e-mails and phone calls seems like an overreaction. I do think though that she had every right to rip the ESF the way she did but calling out MMA, Alicia, MC doesn't really do much for her. That doesn't mean she needs to be blamed for being the cancer that ruined Slayers as some people are suggesting, cause frankly there's not much actual proof that backs that up.
She seems like a confrontational person. The kind that will fight furiously and gets emotionally invested. But I do not really understand what she has done that wrong either.
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To be honest, the phone conversation really shows how ungrateful Crank is. SlayerS took him in after military service, at a point where he had no skills to offer to the workforce. They gave him a place to stay, fed him, and gave him training at a skill he wanted to do (for the time being). They gave him a position of importance in the team. Suddenly, when things go bad he abandons the team.
He was good friends with MMA, Ryung and Alicia, and would have had an idea of what they were going to do. Instead of telling the people who took him in, he didn't do a thing. When he left, he didn't tell them what he planned on doing. He pretty much watched the whole thing fall apart, maybe gave some cryptic messages about how things aren't going well, and thinks he shouldn't be blamed.
The worst thing about the phone conversation is how Crank keeps on going about how he feels. He doesn't think how Boxer or Jessica feels after investing lots of their own time and money, and watching it fail because a bunch of kids thought more about themselves than the team.
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On October 23 2012 23:27 Irave wrote:This drama isn't very fun anymore
Agreed This needs to end
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On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low.
If it makes you feel better Jessica won't run another team in the SC2 community after this. Its standard practice ( even in Korea) that the ultimate responsibility lies on the owners, if something goes wrong then they are at the very least part responsible of what has happened. Just look how ESF reacted when Jessica blamed the organization. The head of ESF stepped down. I only hope that Boxer still tries to lead a team one day with some help with a professinal, and without the involvement of Jessica.
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On October 23 2012 23:26 zidaneshead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low. I'm still not convinced she did much wrong during the whole ordeal, maybe she overreacted with Crank but other than that it seems like a lot of the dissolution is on the players being spoiled/being manipulated by this manager J guy (is his name not disclosed for legal reasons or something?) and SlayerS being black-balled by the ESF. In terms of her taking money from the players that doesn't seem to be true. Where Jessica really comes off as being fucked in the head is her reaction after the fact. I get wanting to keep your name clean but if SlayerS simply disbanded without her ripping the players on her team her name never would've been tarnished in the first place, so the way she came out with all of these interviews and recorded e-mails and phone calls seems like an overreaction. I do think though that she had every right to rip the ESF the way she did but calling out MMA, Alicia, MC doesn't really do much for her. That doesn't mean she needs to be blamed for being the cancer that ruined Slayers as some people are suggesting, cause frankly there's not much actual proof that backs that up.
Completely right. The team didn't implode, it simply folded from a lack of money. And if Jessica didn't have such an axe to grind with MMA she wouldn't have said anything. She is just bitter that this failed for her and cost her and Boxer money (and energy).
She isn't responsible for the team dying (although she has to bear her part of the blame for the crappy relations she had). A lack of money is responsible. If you're Taeja, MMA, Alicia, Ryung, Puzzle or Coca why wouldn't you want to make money? All great players at the top of their careers and all making nothing from the sounds of things. One can only get so many discounted cosmetics before it starts to become a farce.
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On October 23 2012 23:26 zidaneshead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low. I'm still not convinced she did much wrong during the whole ordeal, maybe she overreacted with Crank but other than that it seems like a lot of the dissolution is on the players being spoiled/being manipulated by this manager J guy (is his name not disclosed for legal reasons or something?) and SlayerS being black-balled by the ESF. In terms of her taking money from the players that doesn't seem to be true. Where Jessica really comes off as being fucked in the head is her reaction after the fact. I get wanting to keep your name clean but if SlayerS simply disbanded without her ripping the players on her team her name never would've been tarnished in the first place, so the way she came out with all of these interviews and recorded e-mails and phone calls seems like an overreaction. I do think though that she had every right to rip the ESF the way she did but calling out MMA, Alicia, MC doesn't really do much for her. That doesn't mean she needs to be blamed for being the cancer that ruined Slayers as some people are suggesting, cause frankly there's not much actual proof that backs that up.
Crank lied to her and is a constant pussy from what it sounds like in the phone call transcript. It really, really sounds like he just got depressed because everything is falling to shit and he's 24 and has to live off home allowances. He then just avoided the problem by lying about a neck injury (why else be so mad about the specifics of the injury and its severity?), went home and started streaming(probably just to earn money).
The idea of a foreign team was probably also floating in his head somewhere, but he had already said he wasn't going to look for one (the respectful thing to do for Jessica/SlayerS). Then he eventually joins a foreign team anyway lol. Wouldn't you be frustrated by this? Plus if you're gonna try to worm your way out by making someone else look a little bad, I'd say that you've just asked for whatever heat they are gonna throw at you!
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I think this issue (of Slayers implosion) is a result of the Foreign Scene and Korean domestic scene and the differences between them.
The Foreign Scene is booming with loads of tournaments all the time, people cannot keep up with all these tournaments that they are complaining about it! A player can play in so many small tournaments that with good results they can win significant prize money. The Korean Scene only has GSL and a few minor tournaments, as well as GSTL. Yes the OSL has now been opened to SC2 but this is a recent development. Korea has so many quality players that unless you are Code S Level then you won't really win any significant money unless you are close to Code S level and have a really good month. Opportunities to earn money through prize money are very limited in Korea compared to the Foreign Scene.
The difference is exacerbated by Korean teams like Slayers not actually paying basic salary. Koreans may be content not to receive salary if everyone is in the same situation, but Foreign teams are paying players salary, in some cases a LOT of money. Also there are quite a few Koreans who are earning decent salaries now on Foreign teams AND are winning significant prize money. It must be very tempting to jump ship, I certainly would try it I was in their situation. Also moving to a Foreign team increases a players profile in the Foreign fanbase, which potentially increases streaming revenue and chances of sponsorships. There are examples of former Slayers players like Taeja and Ganzi who are now playing for Foreign teams and earning decent wages and winning prize money - a significant sum in Taeja's case. The likes of MMA and Alicia and to a lesser degree Ryung, know that they can win prize money in Foreign Tournaments. If they get on a Foreign Team that would send them to these Tournaments, they can have realistic expectations of winning prize money.
I think the Slayers players who wanted to leave saw the situation as staying in Slayers meant relative poverty and moving to a Foreign Team meant a significant financial improvement. I reckon the real source of their discontent was money, various players could see that they were missing out financially by remaining in their current situation. I cannot fault them for wanting to earn more from their skills. I do think they should have been honest about this situation with Jessica and Boxer. It appears they were not and this left Jessica and Boxer feeling betrayed and thus angry at them. In reality, a bigger pay check is a perfectly valid reason to want to move on from your current job. Now the messy situation has sort of backfired on all parties and made some players less popular, which can certainly be harmful to a pro-gamer's career.
I do wonder why Puzzle and Coca just decided to switch to LOL. Did they just enjoy it more, or did they see it as being potentially more lucrative? Only they can say for sure.
I also wonder what the situation is like at the other non-Kespa Korean teams. If players are getting minimal salary there, I wonder how unsettled those players are in the face of a potential pay-bump if they switch to a Foreign team.
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On October 23 2012 23:31 TOCHMY wrote:Agreed This needs to end
Imagine all the novels we could have collectively written! haha
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On October 23 2012 23:27 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:22 Art.FeeL wrote:
From the phone convo I say that CranK is one heck of a crybaby. He seems so weak mentally and emotionally. In the end. it was fault of both parties. Crank for his dodging and not being direct and Jessica's for her authoritativeness. You ever suffered in a terrible working environment where you just tried to do your best? Ever had a couple of people senior to you tell you it was all your fault that an entire dream and people's livelihoods went down the drain? And who were your bosses no less. How about a neck injury? Harassment via Twitter and reporters calling you all the time? He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that.
well said
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On October 23 2012 23:27 Subversive wrote:
He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that.
What? How is breaking down not weak? It's pretty much the definition. It's not like he was being tortured by the CIA.
Don't overdo the political correctness. Just because it can be understandable and acceptable, doesn't mean it's not weak.
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
On October 23 2012 23:25 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:18 shiroiusagi wrote:
In the phone conversation translation, Boxer says Crank wasn't a contracted player. what the heck is all the fuss is about?????
I understand talking to your elders, but young people's mind changes. Crank seemed like he had no where to go after wanting to leave Slayers. Crank was given an opportunity by TotalBiscut's wife's team, why not take it. I am pretty sure anyone who had nothing was given a opportunity for something they would take it. I can't even barely call Crank's "lie" a lie.
Jessica is not leaving this rest and keeps on bringing back on the drama, it's like she won't stop till she gets what she wants. All the shit is on Crank. The atmosphere dampened when he leaves? What about Dragon, Ganzi, or Taeja??? Also it pisses me off that she blames the team failing on the players, (besides eSF I can understand that, but that's still blaming something else.) She doesn't even take one bit doing zero wrong. She was the TEAM MANAGER. If the team fails, there was something wrong with the team management. If she did a good job doing team management, the team wouldn't have fallen.
And releasing a private conversation is pretty damn low. It does not follow that because she was the team manager that if the team fails it's her fault.
It may not be her fault, but she does have some responsibility for being the team manager.
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On October 23 2012 23:36 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:27 Subversive wrote:
He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that. What? How is breaking down not weak? It's pretty much the definition. It's not like he was being tortured by the CIA. Don't overdo the political correctness. Just because it can be understandable and acceptable, doesn't mean it's not weak.
Crying is the definition of weak? Trying to shame someone by calling it weak is weak. "just because it can be understandable and acceptable" - that is why it is not weak.
On October 23 2012 23:30 kaisuki wrote:
To be honest, the phone conversation really shows how ungrateful Crank is. SlayerS took him in after military service, at a point where he had no skills to offer to the workforce. They gave him a place to stay, fed him, and gave him training at a skill he wanted to do (for the time being). They gave him a position of importance in the team. Suddenly, when things go bad he abandons the team.
He was good friends with MMA, Ryung and Alicia, and would have had an idea of what they were going to do. Instead of telling the people who took him in, he didn't do a thing. When he left, he didn't tell them what he planned on doing. He pretty much watched the whole thing fall apart, maybe gave some cryptic messages about how things aren't going well, and thinks he shouldn't be blamed.
The worst thing about the phone conversation is how Crank keeps on going about how he feels. He doesn't think how Boxer or Jessica feels after investing lots of their own time and money, and watching it fail because a bunch of kids thought more about themselves than the team.
Yeah he definitely had a responsibility to .... what? What were they planning on doing? This presupposes that MMA the cancer and his thugs are in the wrong. And even then, what is Crank supposed to do? He isn't a superhero. If others act badly or if Jessica is horrible to them or wherever the truth might lie in between then there is one simple thing: it is not Crank's fault. He is a nobody as you just said. Sure, Boxer and Jessica took him in. But he wasn't an orphan. They were a team, he needed a team - simple. It's a business decision. Seeing as he wasn't on a contract and wasn't getting paid it's not like he had this amazing lifestyle there.
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On October 23 2012 23:36 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:27 Subversive wrote:
He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that. What? How is breaking down not weak? It's pretty much the definition. It's not like he was being tortured by the CIA. Don't overdo the political correctness. Just because it can be understandable and acceptable, doesn't mean it's not weak.
He wasn't overwhelmed by anything, he tried to e a good guy and a leader and hold the team together. He failed, and then tried to worm his way about it by telling half truths and avoiding the problem. This, and he has a confidence problem being 24 and living off allowances from home. He then made Jessica look bad (knowingly or unknowingly) and now is having all his actions thrown into public view.
If there is any other way to interpret his statement and the phone conversation, please tell me. Props to TB though, he is much more articulate than Jessica and did well in diverting attention to SlayerS management and away from his new investment.
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On October 23 2012 23:36 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:27 Subversive wrote:
He broke down into tears. Why is that so unacceptable. Men should be allowed to cry and show emotion. It doesn't make them weak. Western anglo-saxon culture really needs to change that. What? How is breaking down not weak? It's pretty much the definition. It's not like he was being tortured by the CIA. Don't overdo the political correctness. Just because it can be understandable and acceptable, doesn't mean it's not weak.
Dont overdo the "guys need to be tough and not cry" thing. Psychological pressure like that can really put a lot ... and I mean A LOT ... of pressure on someone and you dont need physical violence to start this. If you dont understand it then dont judge Crank and the crying part has NOTHING to do with the team imploding, so why bring it up?
I could just as well say that "not crying is weak", because you are too afraid to show your emotions. It has no part in the discussion, so better ignore it.
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
Like all the other k-dramas this one got boring after the first two episodes. 4/10
It's been a long time since I saw MMA raping dem foreign tournaments. I hope he comes back with a new team.
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EPT
