EPTCrank and MMA's accounts regarding SlayerS - Page 53
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mierin
United States4944 Posts
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:27 kuan888 wrote: But, what will happen to SlayerS_Eve ?!?! Evuuuuuu hwaiting  They'd better send her out in their last match | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
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tubs
764 Posts
On October 23 2012 11:51 zefreak wrote: This thread is more depressing to read than the drama. Did you like Jessica before? Then you believe she is right. Did you not like Jessica? Then you think shes lying. The particulars of the situation aren't important. It just comes down to who's personality you like for most people. For most but not all people, yes. I have never really liked Jessica. Yet in this case all the evidence so far presented makes me lean towards her side of the story. I am also a HUGE fan of MMA, but his side of the story doesn't seem to be holding up. Having said that, I think the true story is somewhere in between. When a team fails, you start blaming from the top down, not from the bottom up. Jessica needs to pony up and admit that the head of the team should bear the brunt of responsibility for when both the team succeeds and for when it fails. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
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Jaedong4thOSL
United States487 Posts
This drama is starting to have decreasing marginal effects on the scene. But damages have been done in Korea, really hard to believe SC2 will thrive like BW did in Korea any more. I even worry teams with cash, like SKT and KT, will fade in couple years. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:01 Shival wrote: It rarely is, and certainly not in this case. Sure, I would much rather see a psychologists evaluation (preferably more than one) on situations in eSports houses and subsequent results, but alas that doesn't exist. Thus we go to the next best option, which is what I refer to. But there's a better next best thing - which is considering the visible, obvious trends in the scene. Which with the scene being so small, we can actually do without fear that an eventual research (that will never happen) would prove these observations to be drastically false. The trend that I see is that individual players' performance tends to be largely unaffected, stagnate, and often even drop off as more material comfort and security is provided to them. Trend that I assume you saw was that Slayers provided their players with a high level of comfort (even though we don't really know any specifics on that) and that it had a reasonably significant effect on their results at the time - comparable to, or even more so than players' own talent and work ethic. Not only do I think that I can name many more examples that follow the trend I see, than you can for yours, but I will also remind you of Slayers initial accomplishments in the team leagues - it was hardly a joint team effort. More often than not, it involved multiple players losing their games, then relying on one single player to rack up the wins and ultimately win the match himself. We all know who this player is, and in his own way, he also built the team from the ground up. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:30 TotalBiscuit wrote: Milkis crawls out of the woodwork to call someone else a spoiled brat. My sides I understand you don't want anyone saying anything bad about your player, but I'm pretty sure your comment is pretty uncalled for. I'd highly recommend you read the convo before reacting so emotionally like that. I know quite well what happens when people do that | ||
Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:29 Milkis wrote: Crank sounds like an absolute spoiled brat in that phone conversation -_- considering you had a working relationship with Jessica, I'll consider you less than an impartial source of information. in general that phone transcript is really just going to bait confirmation bias from everyone involved, I can see how it could be used to paint any of the involved characters in a negative light. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:32 Waxangel wrote: considering you had a working relationship with Jessica, I'll consider you less than an impartial source of information. My entire opinion on the phone call is based on Crank's convo with BoxeR more than anything else. But nice to know you guys are so quick to jump to judgment | ||
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Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:33 Milkis wrote: My entire opinion on the phone call is based on Crank's convo with BoxeR more than anything else. But nice to know you guys are so quick to jump to judgment of course, you're an open book | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:31 Talin wrote: But there's a better next best thing - which is considering the visible, obvious trends in the scene. Which with the scene being so small, we can actually do without fear that an eventual research (that will never happen) would prove these observations to be drastically false. The trend that I see is that individual players' performance tends to be unaffected, stagnate, and often even drop off as more material comfort and security is provided to him. Trend that I assume you saw was that Slayers provided their players with a high level of comfort (even though we don't really know any specifics on that) and that it had a reasonably significant effect on their results at the time - comparable to, or more so than players' own talent and work ethic. Not only do I think that I can name many more examples that follow the trend I see, than you can for yours. In fact, if I may remind you of Slayers initial accomplishments in the team leagues - it was hardly a joint team effort. More often than not, it involved multiple players losing their games, then relying on one single player to rack up the wins and ultimately win the match himself. We all know who this player is, and in his own way, he also built the team from the ground up. I'm sorry but trendwatching is sketchy at best. There's no scientific method in trendwatching and thus opinionated results are likely. Even though I don't agree at all with your last 2 paragraphs, let's agree to disagree on this matter ok? | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
Mmm. I'm sure that's the case. I have my own actual opinion on the entire situation, but I don't think calling Crank a spoiled brat means I'm necessarily on Jessica's side. | ||
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lambac0re
United States77 Posts
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openbox1
1393 Posts
You then have Crank and MMA releasing statements over the weekend and Monday that are extremely critical of her despite MMA's disclaimer in the beginning that he says he won't throw all the blame at Jessica. (Read his interview, you can't deny that it completely blames Jessica for everything). At most he takes responsibility for the slave contract comment while blaming her for everything including Boxer's hiatus from SC2. Do also note that Crank also said he was ok with the tape being released in his interview. Again, I'm not saying Jessica is not at fault. As TB says, when a team disintegrates like this, its usually some fundamental issue and Jessica may have made errors in management. But I don't think this means the players are resolved of responsibility. Since no one is going to provide a balanced fair statement and say we all f***ed up, and when a group tries to push all the blame on Jessica (read Crank and MMA's statement, it is pretty one sided as heck), hell if I were her I would release everything I have on my side that supported my point of view too. People who want her to keep quiet in order not to damage the careers of two players (which in her opinion, I stress HER OPINION, have basically shat on her efforts and shat on her in public) are asking for quite a lot out of anyone. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:32 Milkis wrote: I understand you don't want anyone saying anything bad about your player, but I'm pretty sure your comment is pretty uncalled for. I'd highly recommend you read the convo before reacting so emotionally like that. I know quite well what happens when people do that I'm sorry, are you lecturing me on the subject of not acting emotionally? You're gonna have to stop, these sides will rupture shortly. You're the last person I'd ever take that advice from. | ||
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d1ngdong
United States33 Posts
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lambac0re
United States77 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:38 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm sorry, are you lecturing me on the subject of not acting emotionally? You're gonna have to stop, these sides will rupture shortly. You're the last person I'd ever take that advice from. TB, I'm gonna just put this out there. I respect you both as a person and for what you do for the community. But that response towards Milkies is the very definition of ad hominem. | ||
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Shival
Netherlands643 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:36 openbox1 wrote: I think a lot of people are forgetting that Jessica did say she did not want to release the tape. She said the matter was closed for her. Sure, common opinion was strongly against MMA and Crank at least in Korea so it was advantageous for her to end it at that time especially since ESF chairman had basically accepted that he had acted inappropriately. You then have Crank and MMA releasing statements over the weekend and Monday that are extremely critical of her despite MMA's disclaimer in the beginning that he says he won't throw all the blame at Jessica. (Read his interview, you can't deny that it completely blames Jessica for everything). At most he takes responsibility for the slave contract comment while blaming her for everything including Boxer's hiatus from SC2. Do also note that Crank also said he was ok with the tape being released in his interview. Again, I'm not saying Jessica is not at fault. As TB says, when a team disintegrates like this, its usually some fundamental issue and Jessica may have made errors in management. But where I disagree with him is that players are resolved of responsibility. Since no one is going to provide a balanced fair statement and say we all f***ed up, and when a group tries to push all the blame on Jessica (read Crank and MMA's statement, it is pretty one sided as heck), hell if I were her I would release everything I have on my side that supported my point of view too. People who want her to keep quiet in order not to damage the careers of two players (which in her opinion, I stress HER OPINION, have basically shat on her efforts and shat on her in public) are asking for quite a lot out of anyone. Well written if I may say, pretty much reflects my thoughts on the matter. Throughout pretty much every so called 'drama' she unleashed she has shown restraint towards releasing evidence. Crank could've been hit by the recording at the previous crisis, but she specifically stated she would hold it back unless he forced her hand. He decided to apologize that time, and leave it at that. | ||
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Jaedong4thOSL
United States487 Posts
On October 23 2012 12:38 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm sorry, are you lecturing me on the subject of not acting emotionally? You're gonna have to stop, these sides will rupture shortly. You're the last person I'd ever take that advice from. You are indeed emotional. | ||
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