On October 23 2012 10:08 banjo1735 wrote: The phone call should be taken with a grain of salt. If Jessica knew the call was being recorded while Crank did not, Jessica could have incited him to speak rudely on purpose to make him sound bad and herself sound good.
It's extremely convenient and rather suspicious that she had a recording of the phone call anyway.
Nothing about phone call really gives any information we didn't already know, like waxangel said, its boring and not worth reading into.
But isnt it the evidence everyone demanded? It seems to strengthen Jessica's points?
From the translation of Cella's tweets (thx Wax!):
On October 23 2012 10:01 Waxangel wrote: - At the time, I had made a bad decision because of my attachment to the team, and I think I contributed to the team heading towards a crisis, and I was criticized heavily by Boxer and Jessica after that. As for that bad decision, I don't want anything to happen to the players, so I'll just take the criticism that I'm covering things up, and shut my mouth about it. -
Cella made a bad decision (for which he was criticized by Boxer & Jessica), but he doesnt want to say what it was to protect the players? That means, there's more dirt on the players vests?
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
So much this, sometimes i get the feeling that people here think the players are under 15 years old. At least they talk about them as such.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
Says who?
The society. The sooner you man up, the better. Remaining immature is just asking for trouble.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
It's sad is what it is. Let's not forget this Manager J taking advantage of everyone's trust in him to accomplish...well what DID he want to accomplish? Who knows, but it was still completely messed up.
We haven't heard his side of the story, it seems very far fetched that he was just in it to stir up trouble. He's currently a scapegoat, and that's very suspicious.
So far, everyone who's mentioned him has agreed that he was a major cause of trouble. It's been mentioned that he was planning to start his own team and take players away from Slayers.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
It's sad is what it is. Let's not forget this Manager J taking advantage of everyone's trust in him to accomplish...well what DID he want to accomplish? Who knows, but it was still completely messed up.
We haven't heard his side of the story, it seems very far fetched that he was just in it to stir up trouble. He's currently a scapegoat, and that's very suspicious.
I doubt we ever will - we don't even know who he is - but he still essentially took advantage of MMA and no matter what the motivation, that's not right.
On October 23 2012 09:43 NovemberstOrm wrote: No matter how you look at this everything goes back to Slayers having a bad manager/bad training environment/jessica. If the team was run properly none of this would have happened and everyone would be happy, MMA would probably have a few more GSL's under his belt, Boxer might not have left to coach, and Slayers wouldn't have had to die.
Yeah, she was a good manager when Slayers won GSTL two times. But now, she's terrible.
THEY won, not her.
Good logic there. Team falls, her responsibility. Team wins GSTL, team's responsibility.
The logic is pretty flawless.
If a team wins GSTL (accomplished by playing good Starcraft), then yes, it is the players' accomplishments, alongside maybe the coaches that worked with players during their preparation.
If a team falls apart, is ostracised from other teams / the scene, loses sponsors, loses a lot of talented players over a few months with most of remaining players wanting to leave as well, then it is the fault of the management alone.
Ah, and what about the environment provided by the manager? The house provided by the manager? The pc's provided by the manager? The coaches provided by the manager? Do I need to go on?
None of these things accomplish a GSTL victory. There are plenty of teams in Korea that have all these things, and no titles to speak of.
They do, they give the means for a GSTL victory, and the better the things I named are, the more likely you do achieve a victory. To say otherwise is just ridiculously shortsighted. While other teams may also have them, they were in no way living as extravagantly as Slayers was (in comparison ofcourse).
There is no correlation between living extravagantly and winning GSTL.
Oh, where's your statistical evidence for such?
I can atleast cite psychological evidence if you'd like, but I'd rather do that via PM as to not go off-topic here. If you'd like those facts, contact me and I'll give you numerous in a day or so.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
Says who?
The society. The sooner you man up, the better. Remaining immature is just asking for trouble.
Don't make me get into the brain development rant here; I've been really trying to hold back on this one...
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
It's sad is what it is. Let's not forget this Manager J taking advantage of everyone's trust in him to accomplish...well what DID he want to accomplish? Who knows, but it was still completely messed up.
We haven't heard his side of the story, it seems very far fetched that he was just in it to stir up trouble. He's currently a scapegoat, and that's very suspicious.
I doubt we ever will - we don't even know who he is - but he still essentially took advantage of MMA and no matter what the motivation, that's not right.
Everybody knows who he is: Hui-Chul "Garfield"' Jung
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
It's sad is what it is. Let's not forget this Manager J taking advantage of everyone's trust in him to accomplish...well what DID he want to accomplish? Who knows, but it was still completely messed up.
We haven't heard his side of the story, it seems very far fetched that he was just in it to stir up trouble. He's currently a scapegoat, and that's very suspicious.
I doubt we ever will - we don't even know who he is - but he still essentially took advantage of MMA and no matter what the motivation, that's not right.
Everybody knows who he is: Hui-Chul "Garfield"' Jung
Oh. Well.
Call me uninformed then, because this is news to me.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
Says who?
Says life. Unless you're the sort to wear diapers, be spoon-fed and watch Scooby Doo at the age of 21.
I can't believe that the Koreans are really involving CranK in this. MMA acted like a diva, Alicia flat out did bad things, Jessica acted like an insane diva, and Boxer acted like a negligent father, CranK left the team discretely. Anywhere else in the world, CranK would have had literally no (0) culpability.
The only reason why CranK is a target is because Jessica is petty, insane, ego maniacal and he insulted her over a telephone message where she was telling him she was going to destroy his career. This makes no sense. He doesn't deserve to be on her hit list but with Koreans being 10x as witch hunty as the rest of the internet, he's taking the blows. I hope TB and CranK know that we support them, and I would sure buy some merchandise so that TB gets a return for defending his player instead of throwing him under the bus for being a "bad" investment.
I am also sorely disappointed in Boxer. It looks like he was all PR when he cried for the "soul" of e-sports. He could end this with 2 words. I just got rid of my skt1 flair, I hope an Axiom flair comes out soon so I can use that.
On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote: MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time.
Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic.
Yet some refuse to believe it.
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt?
Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed"
Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation.
hmm...
That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation.
And when people lied, the can be very creative too.
Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general.
To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court.
That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever.
This isn't about apologies and reconciling. If it were, she could have easily made up with Crank and MMA in private.
She released a public interview damning those two players absolutely ruining their image and I don't even remember seeing Jessica ask for apologies. Jessica wanted to hurt these players and she's not even trying to hide that saying things like: "you'd better stop unless you want to me release x and y which could hurt you further" as in, if you go against what I say even the slightest, I will attempt to take you down. Funnily enough, Boxer says that's exactly her nature in the phone call.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
It's sad is what it is. Let's not forget this Manager J taking advantage of everyone's trust in him to accomplish...well what DID he want to accomplish? Who knows, but it was still completely messed up.
We haven't heard his side of the story, it seems very far fetched that he was just in it to stir up trouble. He's currently a scapegoat, and that's very suspicious.
I doubt we ever will - we don't even know who he is - but he still essentially took advantage of MMA and no matter what the motivation, that's not right.
Everybody knows who he is: Hui-Chul "Garfield"' Jung
Wait, this guy?
Hui-Chul “Garfield” Jung was born in 1985 in Germany. Since 2005, Hui-Chul has been the Head Manager of Korean gaming team Lunatic-Hai. Since joining the e-sports community in 2001, Hui-Chul has witnessed e-sports become more professional, more interesting, and more prestigious. He sees the development of e-sports as a very positive and valuable experience. By joining the Revolutionary Council and helping to develop and improve the structures in e-sport, he hopes that everyone else is able to enjoy the same great experiences he did.
On October 23 2012 09:45 EMIYA wrote: MMA deserves better. Go to EG or liquid.
Honestly, he did a bit wrong too, like being too pensive and sensitive enough to not confront these communication break downs as they appeared, but I don't really blame him too much--its pretty much how the their culture works half the time.
Refuses to pay his Coach who won him the GSL. Deserves better, good logic.
Yet some refuse to believe it.
Because you can't prove it beyond doubt?
Well, If Jessica is lying about it, shes being very creative cuz it seems very "detailed"
Giving graphics card to the coach instead of monetary compensation.
hmm...
That's not the question I asked. I asked whether you can prove it beyond doubt or not? If not, then what you said is only a speculation.
And when people lied, the can be very creative too.
Jessica mentions in her interview with TIG regarding MMA's statement that Coach Ryu HIMSELF came to her because MMA refused to pay Coach Ryu's share from MMA's earning in Anaheim GSL which MMA and Coach Ryu previously agreed on a 8:2 share as Coach Ryu served as MMA's personal coach. So when Jessica went to MMA to talk about the issue, MMA gave Jessica a graphics card that he RECEIVED at the event. I don't care whether you people keep saying "well, its still he said that she said that", because to me the evidence is pretty damning of both Crank and MMA and the Slayers players in general.
To you, maybe. But to many people, she needs to provide evidence or Coach Ryu's testimony/affidavit to prove it beyond doubt. Like you said, right now it's just "she said that he said that". That's hardly an evidence and would be laughed at in court.
That's the thing. She already mentioned that she has the evidences to back up her claims and will go to court if necessary. But, i don't know if you read some of the previous articles, she does not want to downright kill Crank's and MMA's careers which is why she's only asking for an apology and nothing else. I mean your opinion does not matter at all whether Jessica and the involved members go to court, but you can continue to doubt whatever.
But they apologized already, and she continues. What you say doesn't make sense, sorry. You say she doesn't want to kill Crank and MMA's career. I really wonder what is she doing right now if it's not that. The phone call contain zero information, but still people are buying it as "evidence". evidence of what ? Crank's statement contained exactly what the phone call confirms. But it's JEssica that released it, so people just think automatically that it makes her right even tho it contains nothing. Seriously this thread is infuriating me.
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
Says who?
Says life. Unless you're the sort to wear diapers, be spoon-fed and watch Scooby Doo at the age of 21.
-crack-
The human brain does not fully develop (mature) until around age twenty five, and of course you wouldn't get used to that right away - it's a gradual process; usually not complete until one is around age thirty.
On October 23 2012 10:08 banjo1735 wrote: The phone call should be taken with a grain of salt. If Jessica knew the call was being recorded while Crank did not, Jessica could have incited him to speak rudely on purpose to make him sound bad and herself sound good.
It's extremely convenient and rather suspicious that she had a recording of the phone call anyway.
Nothing about phone call really gives any information we didn't already know, like waxangel said, its boring and not worth reading into.
But isnt it the evidence everyone demanded? It seems to strengthen Jessica's points?
From the translation of Cella's tweets (thx Wax!):
On October 23 2012 10:01 Waxangel wrote: - At the time, I had made a bad decision because of my attachment to the team, and I think I contributed to the team heading towards a crisis, and I was criticized heavily by Boxer and Jessica after that. As for that bad decision, I don't want anything to happen to the players, so I'll just take the criticism that I'm covering things up, and shut my mouth about it. -
Cella made a bad decision (for which he was criticized by Boxer & Jessica), but he doesnt want to say what it was to protect the players? That means, there's more dirt on the players vests?
On October 23 2012 10:10 monkybone wrote: Let's not forget, these are relatively young people caught up in questionable management. While both sides are to blame, I'm tending to side with the players.
It almost seems that Crank was emotionally abused during all of this... Crying in frustration over the phone, caught up in disputes you cannot win due to having mixed feelings about the situation he was in.
They are in the mid 20s. You are really suppose to man up at age 20.
Says who?
Life.
I just asked Life, but he was too busy basking in his GSL win still to give me an answer.
EPT
