EPTEclypsia cheating on stream audience - Page 17
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
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coyote37
France150 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369676#1 Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc... Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC.... I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC... Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote. edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time. | ||
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Khonsou
Dominican Republic275 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos. Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc... Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC.... I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC... Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote. Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:52 Khonsou wrote: Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster. Hey, click on his profile and check his posts. BEFORE you start ACCUSING someone of being phony LOOK into it FIRST. I know you're high off this community witch-hunt stuff or w/e but trying to call someone out that's actually legit in the way you just did is despicable. Please apologize and restore some faith in our community, every little bit counts. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Two main points that is lacking in the OP: 1) Stream is very visible. 2) Advertisers seem to be at least partially informed about what is going on? So as the stream is actually visible, it does bring in new audience to starcraft, which is of course a good thing. Well done. However, an advertisement shown on an embedded stream that at least 99% of the page viewers don't care the slightest about is worth a lot less than an advertisement that pops up on TLOs stream where most of the viewers are actively watching the stream, many in full screen. Saying that "10%, 20%, ..." of the people getting this stream as advertisement "become our audience" is of course a ridiculous exaggeration. How many percent of the TL ads do you click on and start to follow regularly? Thought so. If this become general practice, the ads will still get devalued and TLO will get less stream revenue for the same number of viewers, even if this method it's spreading starcraft to some extent. The one thing that would fix this, is if the stream advertisers can separate between real viewers, that actually clicked on a link to watch the stream, and "advertised" viewers, that only get the stream as advertisement probably don't care the slightest about it. And there would be very different prices for these two options. Then TLO can get his full value for shooting ads in full screen to his fans, and it is still possible to spread sc streams on non-sc sites without harming anyone. It wasn't entirely clear to me from the post if advertisers were presented with this choice, but it seemed to me like they weren't. + Show Spoiler [extract from eclypsia statement] + We bought advertising space just like every other eSports website or general website does. The only difference is that we don't put a banner, we just put in a livestream, a simple idea. We did it with the agreement of the advertisers and the distributor’s platform. We would also like to remind you that besides the CPT there's also a fill rate which you're paid, not per 1000 views but for 1000 broadcasted advertisements for which advertisers can choose themselves via which platform this is distributed on. This way they can dissociate from Eclypsia without having an impact on aAa, Millenium or any other structure. They can just ask Dailymotion for the figures we've been talking about, so they will know soon enough if this delivery system benefits them or not, and all of this will be resolved. Conversely, some sponsors weren't interested in this small volume of "eSports folk" and will then come back to us with a lot of noise. I've heard here and there that the sponsors would suffer from this. Let me remind you that it is not the advertisement that is muted, it is only the stream. So if anyone is hurt by the auto-mute it's our streamers and our organization. It's a risk but we believe that a part of the viewers will eventually come to us, demute the stream and will discover what we have to offer. What about the advertisers? Some say this will reduce the overall CPT and will spread and dry out the income from streams. Know that Eclypsia bought these spaces that were already occupied by other advertisers for a hefty price. These spots will no longer be available for those advertisers but they will only be available for Eclypsia and their providers. Therefore the volume of sales for Eclypsia will slowly but surely become more deficient. Please correct me if I got it wrong. Are advertisers presented, before paying anything, with the choice of placing advertisements for a real viewer (for a higher price), or for an "advertised" viewer (for a lower price)? It seemed like they say that the advertisers were informed (were they really now?  ) that their ads now would go out on embedded stream on other sites (to probably uninterested viewers), and that the advertisers are free to dissociate from eclypsia if they want to. I just feel that there is the risk that they will dissociate from starcraft entirely at that point. But I am not entirely sure exactly what information and choices the advertisers are presented with. Wouldn't be surprised if it's not enough though. TL:DR: I support this method of spreading starcraft. Really, well done!  However, it is very important that the advertisers are given VERY clear information and choices about this procedure, as an ad broadcasted through this new channel is worth a lot less than an ad broadcasted on to a "real" viewer. | ||
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Loxley
Netherlands2480 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369676#1 Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc... Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC.... I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC... Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote. edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time. This deservers more attention. You can discuss all you want about marketing strategies, but denying someone his hard earned pay should always be shunned. Love your movies Coyote, and I may only hope you get paid for the work you've done. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369676#1 Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc... Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC.... I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC... Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote. edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time. Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free. Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean) | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:03 JoeSchmoe wrote: It's neither a fraud or illegal. Interesting point of view. The party that really might have an opinion on that is the streaming company (for example a company like Twitch.tv) which serves up the ads and pays streamers for the views. Do their terms of service prevent such a thing? Are they selling ads to their advertisers on the premise that viewers will have made a conscious effort to view the stream? It could well be fraudulent, in the same way that it's fraudulent for companies to automate click-throughs on Google ads to get paid for those. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 11 2012 09:45 emc wrote: even more reason why advertisements on streams are completely stupid and utterly broken. They get paid for typing in a command... it's fucking ridiculous, there needs to be big changes Actually, the streamers get paid for providing all the content that surrounds the ads. Are you not in favor of people with interesting content getting paid in a way that costs you, the viewer, nothing? Edit: To be clear I think that Eclypsia's behavior on this is completely out of line, but I certainly think that ads on streams are a great thing for the community because it enables people with good content and nothing else to make a living from it. | ||
creamyturtle
United States487 Posts
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On October 11 2012 09:37 Otolia wrote: Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free. Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean) If any respected team hired a freelance artist and didn't pay them, there would be a catastrophic shitstorm, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If an organization isn't doing what they promised (which, by the way, EC kind of has a history of), they deserve to be called out publicly. Telling a fraud victim to keep it quiet and take it to court is bullshit. even more reason why advertisements on streams are completely stupid and utterly broken. They get paid for typing in a command... it's fucking ridiculous, there needs to be big changes so, by your logic, when I work an eight-hour shift and punch out at the end of the day, I'm getting paid for the act of punching the clock itself, not the actual work I did that makes total sense | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
Very hard to get caught, and its essentially free marketing | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On October 11 2012 09:37 Otolia wrote: Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free. Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean) What the fuck happened to the world that someone's word apparently doesn't mean a fucking thing anymore. You'd think a bunch of nerds who are generally into medieval shit would understand that going back on your word and devaluing your honor meant possible death, yet you're just gonna sit there and say 'no contract no moneyzzzz' is utter bullshit. If you're gonna give someone your word and you go back on it, I hope someone shits in your mouth. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Alex1Sun
494 Posts
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