NB: This is just speculation from myself. The following is simply my thoughts on the looming situation that may occur.
With the recent announcement of an affiliate of the Woongjin group (owners of Woongjin Stars) declaring bankruptcy, rumours have circulated amongst the Korean community that in order to keep the company afloat, they will have to cut their support of their progaming team, Woongjin Stars.
Woongjin Stars was formed in 2001 as Hanbit Stars, operated by Korean Starcraft publisher Hanbitsoft. Fostering talents such as Reach, HOT-Forever, Sync, Junwi, Control and Kingdom, they won the 1st round of the 2004 SKY Proleague, upsetting the heavily favoured SK Telecom T1 in front of a crowd of 100,000 people at Gwangahli beach in Busan. In September 2008 after the collapse of Hanbitsoft, Woongjin was announced by KeSPA to become the new owners of the team. Woongjin would continue to create talented players such as Free, Soulkey and ZerO, but have not yet since reached a Proleague final since Woongjin took over.
In normal circumstances, KeSPA would normally entertain offers from other companies in a bid for the team to continue operating under a new owner, but with failed efforts in finding new owners for both eSTRO (disbanded 2010) and the current Team 8, the most likely course of action would be a full disbandment of the team.
This would make the upcoming Proleague season - the first full Starcraft II season - look bleak, with Air Force ACE already announcing they would disband once their last member is discharged from the military. Unless new members join the KeSPA committee or a new owner is found for the Stars team, we will most likely see a 6-team Proleague with KT, SKT, STX, CJ, Samsung and the KeSPA-ran Team 8.
You can read more about the impending collapse of the Woongjin group here and here.
That's horrible. If they did disband would that mean for the next Proleague they would have to let GSTL teams participate (They'd have 7 teams and I'm unaware of a format that could make that work).
Wow. Didn't even know Woongjin went bankrupt. Surprised Stars even lasted this long with their company in such dire straights. I feel bad for the Stars fans but all the relevant players will be picked up by somebody I'm sure.
Well now looks like a good time to allow GOM teams play in pro league although the league would be too big then. So id say having a play off or something to get in would do.
Well, there goes that whole exclusivity contract deal. If they keep the kespa exclusivity contracts it might blow up in their face should a bunch of teams lose sponsorship.
This to me seems to be the one major downfall of Kespa teams. They appear to have one major primary sponsor, and without that sponsor they will fall apart. Great for the telecom teams, their sponsors crashing would mean a LOT more to worry about than the loss of a pro team.
However, the other teams like team8 and woongjin, they can't last without sponsors.
The SC2 revolution is gonna be crazy in Korea. With established SC2 teams not all having huge results or sponsorships, and some of the BW turn SC2 teams seemingly floundering as a continuation of the sponsorship issues for BW, we will see a bunch of teams paring down and consolidating soon.
So this there is going to be a team 7? Or the proleague is going to change/disband? Anyway, this is a very bad news for KeSPA. They should anticipate this with their outdated business model.
this is so sad, but it's logic, there are too many koreans teams in sc2 right now, some will disappear in the next months I guess, from both Kespa and ESF
On September 29 2012 01:52 smileface wrote: fate is playing into eSF and GOM's hands, it seems...
KESPA power is eroding quickly and eSF is playing hardball.
Lack of sponsors has nothing to do with esf/gom.
Unless I'm not understanding what you meant. Likely.
What I meant was while eSF is showing teeth at the moment, KESPA gets hit by another big blow. While it has nothing to do with eSF, noone will deny that this will strengthen their position.
If the "opposition" gets weaker, you automatically become stronger.
On September 29 2012 02:01 Berceno wrote: this is so sad, but it's logic, there are too many koreans teams in sc2 right now, some will disappear in the next months I guess, from both Kespa and ESF
It's sad but how it is logic? The parent company is having problems, has nothing to do with too many Korean teams.
Um, the news said it was one of Woongjin Group's affiliate, Kukdong Engineering and Construction that goes bankruptcy, does that do a hell lot with Woongjin Group itself?
On September 29 2012 01:46 Lemonayd wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I thought KeSPA owned the teams, but each team had their sponsors which in this case would be where they got their name?
Each sponsor controls their team. Kespa is made up of representatives from the teams/sponsors. It's essentially the exact opposite of what you're saying.
Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
On September 29 2012 01:52 smileface wrote: fate is playing into eSF and GOM's hands, it seems...
KESPA power is eroding quickly and eSF is playing hardball.
Lack of sponsors has nothing to do with esf/gom.
Unless I'm not understanding what you meant. Likely.
What I meant was while eSF is showing teeth at the moment, KESPA gets hit by another big blow. While it has nothing to do with eSF, noone will deny that this will strengthen their position.
If the "opposition" gets weaker, you automatically become stronger.
Well, considering that one kespa team alone is most probably worth more than all eSF teams together, it is not really giving esf any advantages.
On September 29 2012 01:52 smileface wrote: fate is playing into eSF and GOM's hands, it seems...
KESPA power is eroding quickly and eSF is playing hardball.
Lack of sponsors has nothing to do with esf/gom.
Unless I'm not understanding what you meant. Likely.
What I meant was while eSF is showing teeth at the moment, KESPA gets hit by another big blow. While it has nothing to do with eSF, noone will deny that this will strengthen their position.
If the "opposition" gets weaker, you automatically become stronger.
Well, is not like ESF doesn't have problems. Really, only IM ST and FXO is doing considerably well. OGS and Zenex already gone, NSH is remaining float but it's anyone's guess for how long; Prime is getting by being an online fashion store with players as models; MVP with the weird partnership with MYM that none quite seem to know what to make of; TSL has been looking for sponsors for forever...
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Yeah hope Kingston goes bankrupt so they can stop sponsoring EG, duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....
On September 29 2012 01:52 smileface wrote: fate is playing into eSF and GOM's hands, it seems...
KESPA power is eroding quickly and eSF is playing hardball.
Lack of sponsors has nothing to do with esf/gom.
Unless I'm not understanding what you meant. Likely.
What I meant was while eSF is showing teeth at the moment, KESPA gets hit by another big blow. While it has nothing to do with eSF, noone will deny that this will strengthen their position.
If the "opposition" gets weaker, you automatically become stronger.
Well, is not like ESF doesn't have problems. Really, only IM ST and FXO is doing considerably well. OGS and Zenex already gone, NSH is remaining float but it's anyone's guess for how long; Prime is getting by being an online fashion store with players as models; MVP with the weird partnership with MYM that none quite seem to know what to make of; TSL has been looking for sponsors for forever...
From what I've heard is that TSL got the most money of the ESF teams..
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Yes how do those bastards actually dare to make esports big
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Yes it is, you have to be very sad person if you wish bad things to others.
I hope this is not true, however, I hope they can find a new sponsor if they lose their current one.
If Woongjin Stars is to disband, what will happen to their current roster of players? Will those players still be locked out of joining an eSports Federation team?
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
You're here enjoying pro SC2 because of kespa btw. No kespa, no pro bw -> no pro sc2. Well and of course the TL website wouldn't be nearly what it is without pro bw.
On September 29 2012 01:46 Lemonayd wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I thought KeSPA owned the teams, but each team had their sponsors which in this case would be where they got their name?
Sponsors own the teams and KeSPa is run by the sponsors.
On September 29 2012 01:48 skyflyfish wrote: you want more team? invite ESF,
ESF teams don't have sponsors like kespa teams. Because of that they can't just be added to kespa.
One thing I find weird is that ZerO just a couple weeks ago signed a new contract with Stars. That's pretty terrible communication between the company and the team if they went and gave Zero a new contract for a team on the verge of disbandment. I hope whichever team drafts Zero honors the terms of his new contract.
On September 29 2012 01:46 Lemonayd wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I thought KeSPA owned the teams, but each team had their sponsors which in this case would be where they got their name?
Sponsors own the teams and KeSPa is run by the sponsors.
On September 29 2012 01:48 skyflyfish wrote: you want more team? invite ESF,
ESF teams don't have sponsors like kespa teams. Because of that they can't just be added to kespa.
Except for LG (IM). It's the only ESF team that fits the criteria to join the KeSPA board of members.\ However I'd imagine a large amount of autonomy is given to the manager so I don't think we'll be seeing them in KeSPA any time soon.
On September 29 2012 02:15 Majynx wrote: I hope this is not true, however, I hope they can find a new sponsor if they lose their current one.
If Woongjin Stars is to disband, what will happen to their current roster of players? Will those players still be locked out of joining an eSports Federation team?
Unlikely, doubt that any eSF team can give them what they would get under a kespa team
well considering that korea has like what? 8 + pro teams including esf teams, vs america that has like 2 or 3 big ones, and europe has like 2 or 3 big ones. It definately looks like korea has way to many starcraft 2 teams.
Its only a matter of time the scene normalizes itself and what can survive in it will survive. There is way to much teams in 1 place for all of them to survive.
Expecting Slayers/TSL/NHSH and eventually prime to also go under very soon unless prime can hold onto their sponsors for years to come.
I hope Startale/IM/MVP/FXO continue to be successful teams, they should merge with proleague to make up for the lost teams from the kespa side.
I'd personally really like a huge PL with all the teams from ESF participating as well. It could work like soccer leagues work in Europe, or I guess, in general sports leagues. PL last an entire year (one season) and after everyone has played everyone once or even twice, the top four teams play playoffs to determine the winner.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
I hope this does not happen. Such a talented roster with such promising players. Not to mention Woongjin is a FANTASTIC team. I really hope this doesn't happen....
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Hey I think it's fucking awesome too. I mean, I cheer for Monster and Kingston and HyperX and Raidcall to bite the dust every single day
On September 29 2012 02:21 johnny123 wrote: well considering that korea has like what? 8 + pro teams including esf teams, vs america that has like 2 or 3 big ones, and europe has like 2 or 3 big ones. It definately looks like korea has way to many starcraft 2 teams.
Its only a matter of time the scene normalizes itself and what can survive in it will survive. There is way to much teams in 1 place for all of them to survive.
Expecting slayers/TSL to also go under very soon.
I hope Startale/IM/MVP/FXO continue to be successful teams, they should merge with proleague to make up for the lost teams from the kespa side.
I don't think TSL is in any trouble, at least financially. Even though Boxer left SlayerS for SKT he isn't gonna leave them out to dry, his wife is still SlayerS manager. If worst comes to worst Boxer will convince SKT to absorb SlayerS.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
On September 29 2012 02:30 ivirj wrote: Congratulations Blizzard and GOM you guys won something that was only a matter of time.
Please explain me how the fuck GOM & Blizzard can be related to the bankruptcy of some affiliate from the Woongjin Group. Did you real the whole OP ? This is just speculation for now, GTR is just assuming that the pro-team MIGHT be in trouble because of this.
I just hope it wont hurt Stars in the end, a 6 team ProLeague will be kind of ugly to watch
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
On September 29 2012 02:30 ivirj wrote: Congratulations Blizzard and GOM you guys won something that was only a matter of time.
Please explain me how the fuck GOM & Blizzard can be related to the bankruptcy of some affiliate from the Woongjin Group. Did you real the whole OP ? This is just speculation for now, GTR is just assuming that the pro-team MIGHT be in trouble because of this.
I just hope it wont hurt Stars in the end, a 6 team ProLeague will be kind of ugly to watch
I also find it hilarious how people are already declaring this the death of KeSPA (or something dumb along those lines). If Woongjin does disband, the one I most feel sorry for is the manager Lee Jae-kyun. He's been the Stars manager since their creation and it would be a huge loss for him to take.
I guess this is misguided rage, but hearing stuff like this really makes me dislike the foreign pros who complain and whine that they don't get paid enough.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Yeah because those aspiring progamers with low pay chasing a dream on woongjin stars are definitely the ones causing stupid kespa ref decisions.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
Oh please I hope Stars don't disband. Just don't.(Flying,Zero and Soulkey are awesome players) If Stars disband, it will fucking affected their performance.
After eSTRO,ACE and Hwaseung Oz,i think that was enough.T.T
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
The worst thing is that you hate Kespa just because some stupid referee made stupid mistake and because gomtv tried to enter heavily overcrowded market and failed hard. I wasnt paying attention to bw scene so I dont know what really happened but you neither since you are also 2010 joiner. And you should not believe what current TL personalities are saying about kespa because they were like 15y.o kids when it happened so they also know "crap" about it. imho
On September 29 2012 02:05 digmouse wrote: Um, the news said it was one of Woongjin Group's affiliate, Kukdong Engineering and Construction that goes bankruptcy, does that do a hell lot with Woongjin Group itself?
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
It's not the KeSPA team going bankrupt...It's the company sponsoring it....Feel free to enjoy KeSPA teams dying but I have no clue why you should be happy for a company that long sponsored esports to go bankrupt...which affects the Korean economy, affecting esports as a whole. It just makes you sound ignorant...
You have one HUGE misunderstanding cause it's not a KeSPA company, it's a company sponsoring one of KeSPA's teams...so yes it's wrong cause you're being ignorant...
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
On September 29 2012 03:05 Doso wrote: Maybe after this, KeSpa is finnaly forced to accept GSL as the other big league and we might see a new united ProLeague casted by OSL and GomTV.
How would this make any sense? Gom doesn't really have the viewers to make this worth it
kespa gets bad publicity in front of the naive eyes of sc2 players > naive sc2 players think a team disbanding that is associated with kespa is a good thing
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
On September 29 2012 02:05 digmouse wrote: Um, the news said it was one of Woongjin Group's affiliate, Kukdong Engineering and Construction that goes bankruptcy, does that do a hell lot with Woongjin Group itself?
Anyone want to further clarify this news?
Second news article: "It was regrettable in this regard that the group’s two core units, Woongjin Holdings and Kukdong Construction, filed for court receivership, similar to bankruptcy protection in the United States, Wednesday."
From reading the two articles what I gather is that the chairman tried to go too big too fast, spent too much money for too little return. What usually happens is that whatever is salvageable is spun-off and sold to repay creditors. Woogjin Group itself will probably consolidate in whatever profitable core-business is left and try to cut losses. Running a KeSPA team is costly with no clear return and is usually one of the first kinds of items to go. This is just my speculation on GTR's speculation.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
Yup. Just look how successful sc2 is in Korea right now. Whew. Silly me, I thought Kespa players would have brought more attention but I was wrong I guess
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
Yup. Just look how successful sc2 is in Korea right now. Whew. Silly me, I thought Kespa players would have brought more attention but I was wrong I guess
sc2 is massive internationally. Maybe not as big as LoL or DotA type games, but the WCS european finals had over 100k live viewers. Just because sc2 isn't massive in korea as BW doesn't invalidate it as a legitimate e-sport. That being said, it is sad to see some of these KesPA teams go under bc soon it looks like there will only be 4 or 5 left
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
Yup. Just look how successful sc2 is in Korea right now. Whew. Silly me, I thought Kespa players would have brought more attention but I was wrong I guess
sc2 is massive internationally. Maybe not as big as LoL or DotA type games, but the WCS european finals had over 100k live viewers. Just because sc2 isn't massive in korea as BW doesn't invalidate it as a legitimate e-sport. That being said, it is sad to see some of these KesPA teams go under bc soon it looks like there will only be 4 or 5 left
I didnt mention anything about sc2 not being an Esport. I said it is already small in Korea but a team disbanding would hurt korean esport scene even more. Actually, any team disbanding would hurt esport not just kespa teams
Kespa teams going under is a bigger setback since those teams are generally sponsored by massive conglomerates. New SC2 teams, on the other hand, are mostly sponsored by companies in very niche markets or fly by night operations.
Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
Zenex is already gone.
StarTale absorbed them, so the players could get a chance to continue their pro-gaming careers
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
SC2 is a flop inside Korea, but it's doing well internationally and has done well internationally without KeSPA (who is, after all, only concerned with Korea). That said, sadness @ the news. If Stars does disband, I hope the new players get good homes.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
The BW team doesn't have much to do with any of this happening sounds like so there's nothing to do with OMG STARCRAFT 2 ISN'T SAVING ESPORTS or whatever you retards are yammering about. A company's main investment and focus project (from the tones of the articles) fails and no wonder a company can no longer sustain themselves. StarCraft has literally nothing to do with the rise, or fall, of Woongjin
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
That 100k audience is pure bullshit. Not even hardcore broodwar fanboys believe that kind of rubbish.
On September 29 2012 03:11 a176 wrote: should have posted this in BW forum because its blatantly apparent no one here has any idea what the hell they are talking about.
if they aren't a BW team it shouldn't be in BW forum.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
That 100k audience is pure bullshit. Not even hardcore broodwar fanboys believe that kind of rubbish.
Highly exaggerated. Trust me, Ive been there.
care to elaborate? That was a like police report by the city police about crowd control.
On September 29 2012 03:56 ptrpb wrote: The BW team doesn't have much to do with any of this happening sounds like so there's nothing to do with OMG STARCRAFT 2 ISN'T SAVING ESPORTS or whatever you retards are yammering about. A company's main investment and focus project (from the tones of the articles) fails and no wonder a company can no longer sustain themselves. StarCraft has literally nothing to do with the rise, or fall, of Woongjin
It's more that in the span of a year 5 KeSPA teams have or will be folded. WeMade Fox, MBC Games Heroes, Hwaseung OZ, Air Force ACE and Woonjing Stars. That, generally, says a lot about the current health of KeSPA teams.
On September 29 2012 03:56 ptrpb wrote: The BW team doesn't have much to do with any of this happening sounds like so there's nothing to do with OMG STARCRAFT 2 ISN'T SAVING ESPORTS or whatever you retards are yammering about. A company's main investment and focus project (from the tones of the articles) fails and no wonder a company can no longer sustain themselves. StarCraft has literally nothing to do with the rise, or fall, of Woongjin
It's more that in the span of a year 5 KeSPA teams have or will be folded. WeMade Fox, MBC Games Heroes, Hwaseung OZ, Air Force ACE and Woonjing Stars. That, generally, says a lot about the current health of KeSPA teams.
except for wemade none of those have anything to do with kespa rofl. MBC game was the entire MBC company, Hwaseung wanted to go sponsor like soccer teams/bigger investments (pulled out of esports in general), air force ace is military and nothing to do with kespa, and Woongjin is the company going backrupt as well.
wemade I still don't actually now what happened to them; I don't recall them being bankrupt or anything and wemade was an online games company. But the other companies pulled out of esports in general, not kespa.
It is absolutely disgusting to me that anyone would cheer the demise of a progaming team. Regardless of their feelings about KeSPA, the death of Woongjin Stars would be a sad passing of a team with a great legacy, and would put tons of great players out of a job. Who the fuck cares about the stupid eSF/KeSPA dispute. We're talking about players, here.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
Yeah, I meant NSH when I said Zenex. ST lost their LoL team so I'm not sure. I keep hearing TSL has lots of cash and is very stable. They certainly are able to send their players to foreign events a lot.
Forgot about MVP. Maybe a merge with the leftover Kespa team, CJ in my list?
On September 29 2012 03:11 a176 wrote: should have posted this in BW forum because its blatantly apparent no one here has any idea what the hell they are talking about.
if they aren't a BW team it shouldn't be in BW forum.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
That 100k audience is pure bullshit. Not even hardcore broodwar fanboys believe that kind of rubbish.
Highly exaggerated. Trust me, Ive been there.
care to elaborate? That was a like police report by the city police about crowd control.
Official Guiness Record "... “largest audience of a game competition” for the final SKY proleague season 2005 held in Busan, South Korea, in which 120,000 attended to watch the event.
yeah, I'm saying the numbers are estimated by the Busan police + Show Spoiler +
The Grand Finals of 'SKY Proleague 2004 1R' was the first success that showed that e-Sports was moving from individual leagues to the Proleague. In the Finals of this competitions, which was held in Gwangalli Busan, 100 thousand spectators(Estimated by the police) gathered up, and made the e-Sports associates very surprised, and later on in the 'SKY Proleague 2005 Former League' 120 thousand spectators gathered up, attracting the attention of major media and foreign newspapers. In 2006 it joined hands with the Germany World Cup and appealed to the general public through a special stage which was set up in front of the City Hall, showing the potentials of e-Sports, and in 2007, it introduced the term of broadcasting rights to the Proleague, contributing to the activation and expansion of added value of e-Sports as digital contents, and furnished a new ground as expansion of e-Sports broadcasting channels.
It's a bit of a sensationalist thread title. Any site visitor could reasonably be expected to read that as an implication that there is actual talk of disbandment already. But in fact the OP consists of nothing more than GTR's speculation based on internet rumors. Also funny to include a picture to make it seem like the official TLnews articles. Even GTR's disclaimer at the top of the OP is apparently not enough to reverse the impression created by his thread title, considering that many people in the thread are making statements and engaging in tangential discussions that assume the Stars WILL disband. We are not even close to establishing that yet. It could well be that the rumors are false because the company's financial commitment to the progaming team is nowhere near enough to make up for the losses causing the possibility of bankruptcy.
But hey, at least you baited more attention to your thread, right?
On September 29 2012 03:11 a176 wrote: should have posted this in BW forum because its blatantly apparent no one here has any idea what the hell they are talking about.
if they aren't a BW team it shouldn't be in BW forum.
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
That 100k audience is pure bullshit. Not even hardcore broodwar fanboys believe that kind of rubbish.
Highly exaggerated. Trust me, Ive been there.
care to elaborate? That was a like police report by the city police about crowd control.
I'll give you a direct link to fomos, Basically most of the police report about crowd number is highly exaggerated.
This is due to the fact that police do not actually count the number of people, but they just get an estimate from
the area of place where the event was taken.
There is also a research done by university research team to determine whether such approach is reliable, but
it turned out be highly exaggerated.
I actually went to that place and there arent just enough seats to accomodate 100k people. More like 10k ~25k at
yeah I always figured it was about people showing up/milling around rather than actual live audience, since it's quite apparent 100k wouldn't have fit to watch the main stage (plus I'm not delusional into knowing police estimate of crowd control is for the total surrounding area). Unfortunately I cannot read korean, but thanks for the link.
On September 29 2012 04:11 zyzq wrote: you guys are kidding yourselves if you think GOM and KeSPA are gonna play nice
KeSPA is gonna put GOM out of business sooner or later
I'm not sure if the news speculations about a disbanding Kespa Team is the right place to make such a bold claim. I tend to agree that there will be harsh competition between these to, but Gom has a fierce stronghold in the SC2 community. I don't know if the hype about Kespa players will be enough to bring people away from Gom. Also since players from both "organizations" will compete in the others tourneys quality of production will be an important factor. I don't know if they can beat the casting archon.
E: also disbanding teams are a sad thing. I hope the players find a new team soon.
On September 29 2012 01:48 skyflyfish wrote: you want more team? invite ESF,
Things don't work that way.
I heard about the bankruptcy and figured they would start cutting things like this.
Here we go.
Things don't work that way eh? It can work that way if they want more viewers
It's not as simple or straight-forward as it appears to be was my point.
It's frigging KeSPA for goodness sake. They aren't just going to give you a seat on their board like that.
To the other guys arguing about capacities/viewership etc. of course there's exaggeration.
To all those boys clapping for another team about to close doors/move shop.
Is that really something to clap about if you promote e-sports?
Here's the thing. Not all teams will last. The same shit is going to happen to a lot of these smaller brands and other SC2 teams, so save the hypocritical views for something of more value.
On September 29 2012 01:48 skyflyfish wrote: you want more team? invite ESF,
Things don't work that way.
I heard about the bankruptcy and figured they would start cutting things like this.
Here we go.
Things don't work that way eh? It can work that way if they want more viewers
It's not as simple or straight-forward as it appears to be was my point.
It's frigging KeSPA for goodness sake. They aren't just going to give you a seat on their board like that.
To the other guys arguing about capacities/viewership etc. of course there's exaggeration.
To all those boys clapping for another team about to close doors/move shop.
Is that really something to clap about if you promote e-sports?
Here's the thing. Not all teams will last. The same shit is going to happen to a lot of these smaller brands and other SC2 teams, so save the hypocritical views for something of more value.
Ridiculous.
That is true. It wont be simple but if both leagues stay I expect it to happen before too long. I expect a couple of each sides teams will fold(I'm looking at you NSHOSEO)
I'm enjoying the irony of the potential erosion of KeSPA's position resulting from lots of smaller contributory factors. I do hope the eSF can capitalise.
On September 29 2012 01:45 McFeser wrote: That's horrible. If they did disband would that mean for the next Proleague they would have to let GSTL teams participate (They'd have 7 teams and I'm unaware of a format that could make that work).
Just Let IM in. They have big sponsors so they kind of fit in.
On September 29 2012 01:45 McFeser wrote: That's horrible. If they did disband would that mean for the next Proleague they would have to let GSTL teams participate (They'd have 7 teams and I'm unaware of a format that could make that work).
Just Let IM in. They have big sponsors so they kind of fit in.
What if IM refused? There's a very unlikely chance that esf teams would gladly jump on the bandwagon of progleague after the Kespa - esf controversy.
On September 29 2012 01:45 McFeser wrote: That's horrible. If they did disband would that mean for the next Proleague they would have to let GSTL teams participate (They'd have 7 teams and I'm unaware of a format that could make that work).
Just Let IM in. They have big sponsors so they kind of fit in.
No way LG-IM would go against ESF and join if the others weren't allowed to. It's either take the ESF lot or none at all.
I hope this doesn't end up happening. Woongjin Stars is probably my favourite team. They were always the ones who "could surprise you" and I was looking forward to them surprising in the future.
Seems like the tides are turning with Broodwar goin down to it's end now... I'm really curious what whill happen with Proleague if there will be only 6 teams or less...
On September 29 2012 02:07 hunts wrote: Is it wrong that I'm actually happy to see KESPA teams go bankrupt? I mean I'm sad for the players and hope they will find new homes if they want to keep going in SC2, but after all the bad things that have come out of kespa, I just can't help but smile hearing about one of the KESPA companies go bankrupt.
if you like esports dieing, then feel free to be happy
lol. SC2 was fine before BW switched over, it will continue to be fine if KESPA teams die off, so it's not esports dying.
oh yeah I totally missed the overfull stadiums in GSL and GSTL...
sc2 is fine without kespa, we got fans all over the world, and this is true e-sport.
Brood Wars, at it's peek, could get over 100k people in the live audience. A 4k attendance isn't really impressive.
SC2 isn't as popular as Brood Wars was at it's apex, and that's a fact. Before the match fixing scandal and SCII happened KeSPA ran as good a ship as anyone has ever ran in eSports history.
On September 29 2012 03:19 Solarsail wrote: Trying to imagine what an 8-team combined ESF+Proleague would look like, if team mergers happened. 8 teams are needed for a good format.
LG-IM and FXO are strong enough to stand on their own KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung still alive (T8 doesn't have a sponsor) Zenex will fold I imagine. Slayers would merge with SKT if it wasn't for the trade lock. Prime, TSL and Startale - maybe one of these is strong enough to be a full Kespa team, not sure about their sponsorship position. The other two will merge with one of the Kespa teams that has money but is low on SC2 talent.
how does LG-IM FXO TSL CJ Samsung SKT-Slayers KT-Prime STX-Startale
sound?
What about MVP?
Right now, LG-IM, FXO and StarTale look like the three healthiest ESF teams financially. From the outside MVP, Prime, TSL and Slayers (not ESF, I know) seem to be doing okay. Fnatic (also not ESF) also seems to be doing okay. NSH looks about to die.
Pretty sure Fnatic is more financially stable than most (non-Kespa) Korean teams. They have the largest eSports fanbase in the world, they have offices in the UK, the Netherlands, Australia and a team house in Korea, apparently the company even started generating some profit last year (which is pretty rare for eSports teams), with a turnover of over $1m...that's what I had read somewhere anyway.
Samsung has a market cap of approximately $193b, so even if they paid out the $1b verdict (which is highly unlikely), it would be a tiny part of their general market cap.
On September 29 2012 01:46 Lemonayd wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I thought KeSPA owned the teams, but each team had their sponsors which in this case would be where they got their name?
Sponsors own the teams and KeSPa is run by the sponsors.
I'm extremely close with one of their b-teamers and also close with another member who lives in their a-team house. I don't think anything will happen to the team yet, I just saw them both yesterday before they went home for Korean-Thanksgiving (Choosuk) and they both seemed really happy and I even asked about woongjin etc.
On September 29 2012 11:53 lastshadow wrote: I'm extremely close with one of their b-teamers and also close with another member who lives in their a-team house. I don't think anything will happen to the team yet, I just saw them both yesterday before they went home for Korean-Thanksgiving (Choosuk) and they both seemed really happy and I even asked about woongjin etc.
Well, when rumors of WMF disbanding leaked out, Thorzain said he asked Moon about it -- F.United at the time -- and Moon just denied it (or said he didn't know, something like that). But then WMF broke up a few days later ... so you can't really say for certain.
"...upsetting the heavily favoured SK Telecom T1 in front of a crowd of 100,000 people at Gwangahli beach in Busan."
I always see these huge crowd numbers thrown around for this specific finals, most of the time immediately followed by those famous photographs. Which look to contain, with a very generous perspective, probably 15-20k people. Just something that bugs me.
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
On September 29 2012 11:53 lastshadow wrote: I'm extremely close with one of their b-teamers and also close with another member who lives in their a-team house. I don't think anything will happen to the team yet, I just saw them both yesterday before they went home for Korean-Thanksgiving (Choosuk) and they both seemed really happy and I even asked about woongjin etc.
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
ST may have lots of sponsors but they don't provide much. Their League of Legends team recently left because the team couldn't promise them a small salary.
The only reason why I'm suggesting LG is the only viable team to join KeSPA because it's the only ESF team backed by a Korean company. If you look at past/current KeSPA teams, they have all been operated by Korean businesses. Red Bull and FXO are obviously, not Korean companies.
Adding to this, LG is the only member of the 'big three' telecommunications companies in Korea (KT and SKT are the other two) to not have a KeSPA presence. This is a perfect time for them to jump on board (however, if I'm not mistaken, it's actually the electronics arm of LG that sponsors LG-IM, not that it really matters that much though, Samsung Electronics is there).
For reference, he is a list of the largest chaebols (Korean conglomerate) without a presence on KeSPA; - LG (have LG-IM on ESF) - Hyundai (sponsored a Team League in 2004) - GS Group - Lotte (minor sponsorship of MVP) - Hanhwa - Hanjin (one of their subsidiaries is Korean Air, which sponsored two OSL's and Wemade FOX before their disbandment) - Kumho - Doosan
From sponsors most to least likely to join KeSPA, I'd say LG -> Lotte (depending on the MVP sponsorship situation) -> Hanjin.
yea LG Miracles will be an awesome and smart addition to Proleague. KeSPA gets one more team, IM gets to compete with their archrivals, better competition (in the future) and exposure on television.
European/Western teams are sponsored by A) Energy Drinks, B) Gaming Equipment or C) Voice chat software. "Popular" is in the eyes of the beholder. Is SC2 popular? Yes, it is in the sense that almost every adolescent/young adult male gamer probably knows about it. Was Korean proscene BW popular in Korea? Yes, it is in the sense that quite a few people know who Lim Yo Hwan is, and the companies that sponsor the teams are well known. SKT and KT are like the equivalent of Vodafone/Boost/[Insert Popular Mobile Phone Company Here]. CJ and Woongjin are brands that you would see on many food products. SC2 is just barely starting to make that transition into that kind of mainstream acceptance. Who knows? Perhaps it will last, perhaps it will fade.
I do think people need to analyse the scope of the situation before making judgements though.
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
ST may have lots of sponsors but they don't provide much. Their League of Legends team recently left because the team couldn't promise them a small salary.
I think the reason that the LoL team fold is that Red Bull, their big sponsor, only supports the SC2 team. So I would say that the SC2 portion of Startale is much larger than the LoL side, sponsor wise.
I'd strongly suggest people actually read up on the situation before posting inane comments. This has nothing to do with KeSPA, or ESF. In fact this has very little to do with Korean companies "losing interest" in SC2.
The reason the team might be in trouble is because Woongjin, the parent company, is about to go bust. That's pretty much it. Not only is it an uncommon and weird situation, but it also has NOTHING TO DO WITH ESPORTS. Trying to paint this as a result of the KeSPA/ESF drama, or as a sign that SC2 is dead in Korea, would be foolish and factually incorrect.
People also need to keep things in perspective. Even if Woongjin spent a million dollars a year on sponsoring this team - a generous estimate - it's really only a very small expenditure and is unlikely to be at the top of their list when it comes to cutting down on costs. I'd wager many higher ups in the company probably wouldn't even know that Woongjin actually sponsors an eSports team. Only if Woongjin is truly screwed would the sponsorship likely end.
Sorry if I'm coming across as quite aggressive, but some people's responses have been completely absurd and serve only to fuel drama.
As an aside, people have mentioned the Lotte sponsorship MVP has. I wouldn't read into this at all; it's product only, and is incredibly insignificant.
I can't see this being true at all. I'm not by any means familiar with the Kespa scene since I don't know BW but the finance/recruit side don't add up - Lately they renew Zero's contract and awhile back ago they recruited MMA's personal coach (which is partially responsible for his decline) for their team soon after the Iron Squid I believe, so about 3-4 months ago (?), if they knew their outlook for the next year were deep in the red no one would do that.
On September 29 2012 14:00 Kontys wrote: Esportsstarcraft is dying in Korea. Maybe we do have hope.
Foreign domination doesn't help the skill level of the games, unfortunately. Foreigners get better because in order to win competitions, they have to beat top tier Koreans who are really diligent. tbh, I'd much rather watch top Koreans than homegrown Japanese gamers (although I would still totally root for them).
Also, it's really only starcraft that's dying...LoL is strong as ever T_T
On September 29 2012 14:00 Kontys wrote: Esports is dying in Korea. Maybe we do have hope.
You mean SC2, League of Legends seems to be doing fine. The more news I read about SC2 in Korea the less hope I have of the scene surviving. I mean, HoTS is turning out to be a flop unless something drastic happens, Korean interest in SC2 still being minuscule even after the Kespa players have switched, and now yet another team disbanding (although admittedly this has more to do with Woongjin failing rather than it not seeing good enough returns I guess).
On September 29 2012 01:46 Black[CAT] wrote: Not even Team 8 got a sponsorship, so looks like Team 8 gonna disband soon as well.
Quite likely. STX is also on the bubble.
and Samsung being sued left and right , hard times
The only reason Samsung is being sued left and right is because they are very successful. If they were a complete flop, I don't think Apple would even bother.
Super rough. Hanbit has a deep and forever lasting impact in my memory's ever since it's inception. As far as reasons to disband go though I feel like this is less detrimental than all the other teams in the past 5 years. The parent company first declaring bankruptcy before a chance of their kid's being left unemployed feels a lot (albeit sadder) less impact-full to this industry.
Let's not forget though that eSTRO and Oz/MBC's search for sponsors was with BW. There is still a chance that someone might think the SC2 scene is worth a look, though I personally don't see it. A 6 team proleague would be a sad thing indeed, but since I don't really watch any SC2 anymore, I find myself not caring as much.
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
ST may have lots of sponsors but they don't provide much. Their League of Legends team recently left because the team couldn't promise them a small salary.
Didn't the LoL-division left because of that they didn't get the results ST was hoping for? I could be wrong, but I think it was that way.
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
ST may have lots of sponsors but they don't provide much. Their League of Legends team recently left because the team couldn't promise them a small salary.
Didn't the LoL-division left because of that they didn't get the results ST was hoping for? I could be wrong, but I think it was that way.
They wanted salary. ST couldn't provide it.
The SC2 team is the one who is wearing the Red Bull jerseys. The LoL team wore the old black/orange jerseys. So the Red Bull sponsorship seems to be solely SC2. Also remember that Startale absorbed ZeNex, pretty much showing that they are looking to expand their squad and not limit it.
Back when fox and another team was announced to disband people were saying how it can't be woongjin since they have a rock solid sponsorship.Guess not anymore
it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
On September 29 2012 12:48 opterown wrote: ouch, this is painful
doesn't look so good for ESF teams looking to find sponsors either i guess
does anyone know how much it costs to sponsor a team per year? haha
IM and ST both got huge sponsorships while Team 8 was still searching, so it's not like a team like Prime/TSL couldn't get something big if a KeSPA team can't. Really depends on what a sponsor is looking for and what market they want to reach.
ST may have lots of sponsors but they don't provide much. Their League of Legends team recently left because the team couldn't promise them a small salary.
The only reason why I'm suggesting LG is the only viable team to join KeSPA because it's the only ESF team backed by a Korean company. If you look at past/current KeSPA teams, they have all been operated by Korean businesses. Red Bull and FXO are obviously, not Korean companies.
Adding to this, LG is the only member of the 'big three' telecommunications companies in Korea (KT and SKT are the other two) to not have a KeSPA presence. This is a perfect time for them to jump on board (however, if I'm not mistaken, it's actually the electronics arm of LG that sponsors LG-IM, not that it really matters that much though, Samsung Electronics is there).
For reference, he is a list of the largest chaebols (Korean conglomerate) without a presence on KeSPA; - LG (have LG-IM on ESF) - Hyundai (sponsored a Team League in 2004) - GS Group - Lotte (minor sponsorship of MVP) - Hanhwa - Hanjin (one of their subsidiaries is Korean Air, which sponsored two OSL's and Wemade FOX before their disbandment) - Kumho - Doosan
From sponsors most to least likely to join KeSPA, I'd say LG -> Lotte (depending on the MVP sponsorship situation) -> Hanjin.
Not sure how I feel about your analysis.
Like someone already mentioned, you incorrectly infer the financial health of StarTale from the LoL team which did not benefit from the Redbull sponsorship. They are doing just fine because they are able to keep their star players and invest in future growth by absorbing Zenex. If you can keep your stars and you invest for the future, you have enough money to be in the business.
You also say that KeSPA will only accept a korean member because "KeSPA teams, they have all been operated by Korean businesses". Well that's an invalid argument because KeSPA has been, until very recently, a BW centric organization and therefore would only interest Korean sponsors. So in all likelihood they are only Korean by shared interest, not nationalistic concerns. Once (if?) they get a better global presence, then foreign companies will start to gain interest. Though once again TSL, Prime, MVP might be better targets because they are much cheaper to run.
LG clearly doesn't want to join KeSPA as they could have but decided not to. There needs to be changes to the way KeSPA operates before they get a new member. Their global strategy with Ongamenet needs to work wonders or they need to lower operating costs of teams. Korean growth in SC2 might also do it but that seems less likely.
LG and Lotte are already happy with their teams. It's also well known that nerds don't buy cars so Hyundai and Kia out. Hanwha has no nerd consumer-related brand as far as I know so the sell will be hard. Same with kumho. Nexon and NCSoft won't sponsor because it's a conflict of interest with Activision-Blizzard. TG Sambo isn't doing too well. Woori Bank and Doosan (KFC) doesn't want in for whatever reason so that's pretty much the gauntlet of the native south korean consumer economy.
So for all these reasons I don't think LG or Lotte will join KeSPA and that the sponsor for team 8/Stars is not likely to be a korean company. I think it's more likely that the structure of e-sports changes, that some type of merger or assimilation between KeSPA and eSF happens.
Global brands that could get on board in time:
Intel Pepsi Co Coca Cola Microsoft KFC (they really should lol) Visa/MasterCard Google/Apple if they ever get into sports sponsorships.
Edit: didn't mean to pile on with the startale stuff, I sat on this post for a few hours.
On September 29 2012 02:08 brokenLoL wrote: Why not just merge all EGMC, GSTL, KeSPA, and IPTL teams together and make one big ProLeague?
And by all I mean ALL, as in even foreign teams.
No one wants "one big league". Lack of competition might be good for economy, but it will suck for spectators because there will be no reason for them to up the standard if there's no one to compete with.
On September 29 2012 14:00 Kontys wrote: Esportsstarcraft is dying in Korea. Maybe we do have hope.
Foreign domination doesn't help the skill level of the games, unfortunately. Foreigners get better because in order to win competitions, they have to beat top tier Koreans who are really diligent. tbh, I'd much rather watch top Koreans than homegrown Japanese gamers (although I would still totally root for them).
Also, it's really only starcraft that's dying...LoL is strong as ever T_T
Skill =/= Well-being/popularity/stability of the scene.
On September 29 2012 17:46 Boonbag wrote: it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
I think you mean "very far from being as free and popular as it needs to be". Being a "good" game, in terms of balance and skill ceiling, has almost nothing to do with popularity, look at LoL in Korea, a game that is known for being unbalanced and easy.
If this happens it will be a horrible loss and a huge deal. There has to be some way to save these guys. I really hope that something works out for the entire woongjin company.
On September 29 2012 17:46 Boonbag wrote: it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
I think you mean "very far from being as free and popular as it needs to be". Being a "good" game, in terms of balance and skill ceiling, has almost nothing to do with popularity, look at LoL in Korea, a game that is known for being unbalanced and easy.
who cares about balance, brood war wasn't balanced it took about 4 years before pvz beeing winnable took almost 2 for tvp
they shouldve just revamped bw and they would've gone huge success
On September 29 2012 17:46 Boonbag wrote: it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
I think you mean "very far from being as free and popular as it needs to be". Being a "good" game, in terms of balance and skill ceiling, has almost nothing to do with popularity, look at LoL in Korea, a game that is known for being unbalanced and easy.
who cares about balance, brood war wasn't balanced it took about 4 years before pvz beeing winnable took almost 2 for tvp
they shouldve just revamped bw and they would've gone huge success
no, because you would still have to pay for it, therefore, it would never get huge as broodwar did. it's a shitty world we live in, whatcha gonna do. now you should stop with the bw-elitism/balance-whining tho, before someone reports you...
On September 29 2012 17:46 Boonbag wrote: it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
I think you mean "very far from being as free and popular as it needs to be". Being a "good" game, in terms of balance and skill ceiling, has almost nothing to do with popularity, look at LoL in Korea, a game that is known for being unbalanced and easy.
who cares about balance, brood war wasn't balanced it took about 4 years before pvz beeing winnable took almost 2 for tvp
they shouldve just revamped bw and they would've gone huge success
no, because you would still have to pay for it, therefore, it would never get huge as broodwar did. it's a shitty world we live in, whatcha gonna do. now you should stop with the bw-elitism/balance-whining tho, before someone reports you...
Chat I just had with one of the progamers on their team, sorry some of it is in Korean ~~! He assures everythings fine. I've been friends with him since I first came to Korea and he's told me a lot of secrets which never even made it public, so I actually 100% trust him on this and it's not like the moon-thorzain reference someone said to me earlier in this thread.
EDIT - Figured I would add translation LOL
Facebook messages:
me:hey. woongjin stars 진짜 파괴. 빨리? Sponsor out? ;;;;;;; (Hey woongjin stars really bankrupt so sudden?)
him:ㄴㄴ (no no)
me: so now what is happening?
him: ?? 한글 (speak korean)
me: 웅진 스타즈 스폰서 0 돈. ~~; 지금 스타2 팀.. ??? 뭐? (Woongjin stars sponsor has 0 money. Now what is the starcraft 2 team going to do?)
him: 루머 병신 (Rumor retard.)
me: 아니 병신아 (No, retard) 뉴스 (news)
him: ㅋㅋㅋㅋㄱㅋㅋㄱ? (lolololol go?) 웅진 대기업 돈은만들수잇다 (Woongjin stars has a lot of money elsewhere.)
me: 지금 파산 (Now they're bankrupt.) 웅진 스폰서 (Woongjin's sponsor)
him: 법정관리신청 (They is a law/court request going on)
On September 29 2012 17:46 Boonbag wrote: it never occured to me that rts pro gaming glory could just as well end with the end of bw i always thought sc2 would pick up, but the game is very far from beeing as good as it needs to be
I think you mean "very far from being as free and popular as it needs to be". Being a "good" game, in terms of balance and skill ceiling, has almost nothing to do with popularity, look at LoL in Korea, a game that is known for being unbalanced and easy.
who cares about balance, brood war wasn't balanced it took about 4 years before pvz beeing winnable took almost 2 for tvp
they shouldve just revamped bw and they would've gone huge success
no, because you would still have to pay for it, therefore, it would never get huge as broodwar did. it's a shitty world we live in, whatcha gonna do. now you should stop with the bw-elitism/balance-whining tho, before someone reports you...
Not to mention thats called an expansion and blizzard is typically pretty good about having there sequals feel like a sequal and not an expansion.
I feel like Zero and others could probably find other teams, at least, right?
It's been said many times already in this thread, but I think it might be reasonable for PL to take in like 4 ESF teams to round out the league. Who knows with Kespa though...
P.S. I think it's hilarious how it looks like Free is wearing a party hat in that picture lol
EDIT:
On September 29 2012 23:27 lastshadow wrote: Chat I just had with one of the progamers on their team, sorry some of it is in Korean ~~! He assures everythings fine. I've been friends with him since I first came to Korea and he's told me a lot of secrets which never even made it public, so I actually 100% trust him on this and it's not like the moon-thorzain reference someone said to me earlier in this thread.
Well whether wongjin will disband or not, it's quite apparent that ever since a lot of teams disbanded kespa has been having issues, I mean team 8 is still without a sponsor. Either way I still feel like 1 big korean team league with all the teams would be best, maybe have it 1 day at ogn studio and the next at gom or have ogn do korean broadcast, have it restreamed on gom player kr and have gom do the foreign broadcast.
On September 29 2012 14:23 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 29 2012 14:00 Kontys wrote: Esportsstarcraft is dying in Korea. Maybe we do have hope.
Foreign domination doesn't help the skill level of the games, unfortunately. Foreigners get better because in order to win competitions, they have to beat top tier Koreans who are really diligent. tbh, I'd much rather watch top Koreans than homegrown Japanese gamers (although I would still totally root for them).
Also, it's really only starcraft that's dying...LoL is strong as ever T_T
Skill =/= Well-being/popularity/stability of the scene.
Who cares? eSport shouldn't be based on things like that.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
On September 29 2012 02:18 red4ce wrote: One thing I find weird is that ZerO just a couple weeks ago signed a new contract with Stars. That's pretty terrible communication between the company and the team if they went and gave Zero a new contract for a team on the verge of disbandment. I hope whichever team drafts Zero honors the terms of his new contract.
Even board of directors can't predict their own bankruptcy, new contract doesn't mean anything.
On September 29 2012 02:22 KoBlades wrote: I'd personally really like a huge PL with all the teams from ESF participating as well. It could work like soccer leagues work in Europe, or I guess, in general sports leagues. PL last an entire year (one season) and after everyone has played everyone once or even twice, the top four teams play playoffs to determine the winner.
SC2 has too many teams and leagues at this point, I wouldn't mind seeing a contraction so we could get just a few major tournaments with the best players involved.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
See this is why you are a ignorant little rascal. Why would I be a fan of a game that I myself am not very fond off? Why don't you try to formulate better argument than to instill hatred in the thread.
You are the one who came into the SC2 general section and posted;
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
Stop trolling and go back to the BW section if you disdain SC2 so much, you didn't like SC2 people going into the BW general and posting comments like that about BW teams when they were dying off to return the damn favour.
On September 29 2012 01:46 Black[CAT] wrote: Not even Team 8 got a sponsorship, so looks like Team 8 gonna disband soon as well.
Quite likely. STX is also on the bubble.
and Samsung being sued left and right , hard times
Samsung is doing completely fine, still in uptrend. The lawsuit won't impact much. Btw, sponsor a proleague team can't even be called pocket money for them.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
Stop trolling and go back to the BW section if you disdain SC2 so much, you didn't like SC2 people going into the BW general and posting comments like that about BW teams when they were dying off to return the damn favour.
Of course, it wasn't the most favorite things to hear at the time of BW teams getting disbanded. But you have to look at things objectively, the industry is doing bad so it is only natural that something of similar magnitude to occur. And that's where I stand between things. Its not really about me hating on the SC2 game but it is rather that I prefer one game over another.
And oh please, keep yourself out of the argument between us because I was never attacking on the game by any means but I was correcting his reading skills of putting words into my mouth/hand w/e. That's not appreciative.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
You really just posted on here to say you don't care? Thanks a lot, but you surely have something else to do with your time.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
See this is why you are a ignorant little rascal. Why would I be a fan of a game that I myself am not very fond off? Why don't you try to formulate better argument than to instill hatred in the thread.
Just stop posting, please. You're pointlessly flamebaiting and then get angry when people call you out for it. If you don't give a fuck anymore, just leave.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
See this is why you are a ignorant little rascal. Why would I be a fan of a game that I myself am not very fond off? Why don't you try to formulate better argument than to instill hatred in the thread.
Just stop posting, please. You're pointlessly flamebaiting and then get angry when people call you out for it. If you don't give a fuck anymore, just leave.
That would be the logical thing to do. don't think he will though.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
See this is why you are a ignorant little rascal. Why would I be a fan of a game that I myself am not very fond off? Why don't you try to formulate better argument than to instill hatred in the thread.
On September 30 2012 04:25 TheButtonmen wrote: He's the one trying to instill hatred?
You are the one who came into the SC2 general section and posted;
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
Stop trolling and go back to the BW section if you disdain SC2 so much, you didn't like SC2 people going into the BW general and posting comments like that about BW teams when they were dying off to return the damn favour.
Of course, it wasn't the most favorite things to hear at the time of BW teams getting disbanded. But you have to look at things objectively, the industry is doing bad so it is only natural that something of similar magnitude to occur. And that's where I stand between things. Its not really about me hating on the SC2 game but it is rather that I prefer one game over another.
And oh please, keep yourself out of the argument between us because I was never attacking on the game by any means but I was correcting his reading skills of putting words into my mouth/hand w/e. That's not appreciative.
You can prefer one game over the other, but you can't deny that it's more than a little coldhearted to look at players that used to play the game you like -- to look at them and to declare in a thread like this that they mean nothing more to you now simply because they moved onto another game, never mind all the years they spent entertaining you with their play.
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
QQ more about BW being dead. If you watch any other sports and that team went bankrupt you'd be pretty upset and pissed. Way to be a fan. oh wait your not a real fan with a shitty attitude like that
See this is why you are a ignorant little rascal. Why would I be a fan of a game that I myself am not very fond off? Why don't you try to formulate better argument than to instill hatred in the thread.
Just stop posting, please. You're pointlessly flamebaiting and then get angry when people call you out for it. If you don't give a fuck anymore, just leave.
No I'm not leaving because I have a perfect good reason to stay and correct what kind of atrocities that R_Guy wrote about how I'm a fan which I have never stated
+ in responding to the bolded part: how do you know? I mean what part of my post did I seem to to be mad? As far as I'm concerned, every single one of my posts so far have been rather aloof and not putting in that much emotions in them.
On September 30 2012 04:25 TheButtonmen wrote: He's the one trying to instill hatred?
You are the one who came into the SC2 general section and posted;
On September 30 2012 03:44 Xiphos wrote: Meh, they don't play BW. Don't really affect my life in any way 'nymore. Just another day for a gaming team to be disbanded.
Stop trolling and go back to the BW section if you disdain SC2 so much, you didn't like SC2 people going into the BW general and posting comments like that about BW teams when they were dying off to return the damn favour.
Of course, it wasn't the most favorite things to hear at the time of BW teams getting disbanded. But you have to look at things objectively, the industry is doing bad so it is only natural that something of similar magnitude to occur. And that's where I stand between things. Its not really about me hating on the SC2 game but it is rather that I prefer one game over another.
And oh please, keep yourself out of the argument between us because I was never attacking on the game by any means but I was correcting his reading skills of putting words into my mouth/hand w/e. That's not appreciative.
You can prefer one game over the other, but you can't deny that it's more than a little coldhearted to look at players that used to play the game you like -- to look at them and to declare in a thread like this that they mean nothing more to you now simply because they moved onto another game, never mind all the years they spent entertaining you with their play.
But maybe that's just me.
Well, I perfectly get the logic behind this post. You are saying that because those players have delivered such great spectacles in the past that I should remain supportive of them. And I get that as I still view them as gods from VODs.
However that being said, now that people have changed, I just look at the current situation on them with a different perspective. Its like seeing your wife cheated on another man. Would you really look at her with the same sight?
Everyone is flamebaiting one way or another he is a point here though most of who were bw fans just don't give a damn any more about the teams . Also it's kind of hard to leave a place where you use to come to for good times ....
Note Woongjin group is fine, its just a recently acquired construction firm that has been applied for bankruptcy which isn't the first time it has done so. Ironically enough it has paid back all internal loans before doing so. Shouldn't affect Woongjin in the slightest, the investment into sc is very insignificant compared to the group as a whole.
Just curious, if you hate SC2 so much, why do you post so much in the SC2 section? I mean I'm not a fan of BW as I only played SC1 and BW in its early days as a young kid before I knew about esports and most likely before BW was even an esport at all, so I don't post in the BW section. I don't play LoL so I don't post in the LoL section. If you don't play SC2 and hate it so much, why post so much in the SC2 section about how much you hate it? Are you only doing it because you feel like your high post count gives you the right to because mods will go easier on you?
On September 30 2012 04:46 Sawamura wrote: Everyone is flamebaiting one way or another he is a point here though most of who were bw fans just don't give a damn any more about the teams . Also it's kind of hard to leave a place where you use to come to for good times ....
Stay in the BW section then. This is the SC2 forum. I doubt this is a place he ever used to "come to for good times."
Nobody assumed that he was ever a "fan" of SC2. People just made the assumption that he's a fan of the players that spent so many years of their lives entertaining him. And there's really no point to come into this thread to say that you don't care, unless you're trying to flamebait. If you really don't care, then you wouldn't have clicked on this thread in the first place, and you sure as hell wouldn't have cared about sharing your opinion about the matter.
hey same twisted thing can be said about your post. If you love sc2 so much, why do you find guilty pleasures in witnessing the big player in the industry go down in flame? yeah, thing about that for a second.
btw stop putting words in people's mouth, I personally have never said that I hate the game so much. To be frank, if there is one single basket that I would invest all my eggs of hatred for, it would be Blizzard's business model.
This is sad for Woogjin Stars ... Hope the team goes through....
And btw, I don't know why some people say "There's too much teams", I mean, isn't that good for competition ?
And about sponsors, you really think that there's not enough companies that can support a team ? I don't think so (but that's my opinion, and an open question, not necessarily a rethoric one).
I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
they won the 1st round of the 2004 SKY Proleague, upsetting the heavily favoured SK Telecom T1 in front of a crowd of 100,000 people at Gwangahli beach in Busan.
Out of context but I find it funny how the Korean police managed to multiple the amount of crowd by about 5 each time there was a proleague final.
On September 30 2012 13:01 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
I wouldn't say Kespa will collapse. They still have some really big teams and sponsors-- Flash's salary is probably similar to EG's combined salary, and they have a TON of good players that are more talented at RTS than the ESF players and practice more.
They already have the best Protoss in the world, some very good Terrans and Zergs, and they'll slowly take over GSL season by season. The scene will look quite different in a year.
On September 30 2012 13:01 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
I wouldn't say Kespa will collapse. They still have some really big teams and sponsors-- Flash's salary is probably similar to EG's combined salary, and they have a TON of good players that are more talented at RTS than the ESF players and practice more.
They already have the best Protoss in the world, some very good Terrans and Zergs, and they'll slowly take over GSL season by season. The scene will look quite different in a year.
who can say, the only thing kespa has going for them is by.rain (and he looks legit) besides that we ve some good players and a lot of shitty players, same goes for gsl too so predicting what is gonna happen is kinda obsolete, just watch and hope for the best
me personally, couldnt care less for what the players play, if i watch sc2 games i wanna see good games, regardless if its kespa or gsl player or someone from africa -_-
for wongjin its kinda bad if that happens, not really for the established players but the guys who couldnt make a name for themselves such a thing pretty much is carrie(e)r ending
On September 30 2012 22:42 SEA KarMa wrote: Someone help them. Samsung or LG, they're big enough, combine the two teams if necessary. Just not worth it losing so many talented players...
They won't be lost, they'll find a brand new team and move on.
On September 30 2012 13:01 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
I wouldn't say Kespa will collapse. They still have some really big teams and sponsors-- Flash's salary is probably similar to EG's combined salary, and they have a TON of good players that are more talented at RTS than the ESF players and practice more.
They already have the best Protoss in the world, some very good Terrans and Zergs, and they'll slowly take over GSL season by season. The scene will look quite different in a year.
Woah woah slow down there cowboy. By.Rain is good, very very good, but he isn't even the only Protoss in the Ro8, and he hasn't actually won a championship yet. It's not time to crown him as the best Protoss in the world just yet.
On September 30 2012 13:01 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
They already have the best Protoss in the world, some very good Terrans and Zergs, and they'll slowly take over GSL season by season. The scene will look quite different in a year.
Hmm I don't know about that. Rain is incredibly good, I love love love love his playstyle (I even have him in my sig!), but I think that most people can't really study him and find his tendencies since he's still a relative newcomer. Maybe he's got a pattern that other pros like MVP will spot that isn't really obvious to you and me. Still, he definitely looks like a top 3 Protoss easily.
On September 30 2012 13:01 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I told everyone that KESPA's power is vastly overrated now. Unless they crush GSLs and MLGs quick, they will continue to contract to eventual collapse. All the eSF has to do is keep playing along.
They already have the best Protoss in the world, some very good Terrans and Zergs, and they'll slowly take over GSL season by season. The scene will look quite different in a year.
Hmm I don't know about that. Rain is incredibly good, I love love love love his playstyle (I even have him in my sig!), but I think that most people can't really study him and find his tendencies since he's still a relative newcomer. Maybe he's got a pattern that other pros like MVP will spot that isn't really obvious to you and me. Still, he definitely looks like a top 3 Protoss easily.
I mean dominating Taeja, Parting, and DRG live in the two most prestigious tournaments in the world is insanely impressive.
Taeja himself said if he plays Rain again he will most likely lose, and DRG said he doesn't want to play Rain and he is very strong on ladder.
EPT
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