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Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 14 2012 05:01 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:59 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:54 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:On September 14 2012 04:51 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:47 ~Maverick~ wrote:On September 14 2012 04:45 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:37 Roman666 wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 coolguy00 wrote:
(Skype log, censored the name of the guy who runs MoW = Boss)
[11.9.2012 12:41:24] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you have to pay me back from th emoney
[11.9.2012 12:41:33] Boss: nope, I don't have
[11.9.2012 12:41:40] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: ok
[11.9.2012 12:41:50] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so i paid you from this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:53] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: and im not here for this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:56] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you give back my money
[11.9.2012 12:41:58] Boss: You are breaking the rules
[11.9.2012 12:42:02] Boss: you know how it works?
[11.9.2012 12:42:06] Boss: If not - read the contract again
[11.9.2012 12:42:08] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: well
[11.9.2012 12:42:11] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: as you said i didnt sign it
[11.9.2012 12:42:17] Boss: So I don't have your money
[11.9.2012 12:42:32] Boss: Do you have any confirmation?
[11.9.2012 12:42:41] Boss: No. So now you see my situation when you don't sign the contract.
I don't understand how anyone who has read this^ could still defend MoW or "Boss". I don't understand why people get so excited about this mouth off. It like: 1. Give me back my money I am leaving. 2. You are entitled to get shit. 3. But I paid you for the whole month in advance and I am leaving now. 4. You violated the rules of the contract. 5. Hahahaha I never signed it so I dont have to obey the rules! 6. Hahahaha I never got your money. In fact you were never here. except for 1. Give me back my money, you kicked me out because I didn't want to sign the contract before running it through my lawyer, which you wouldn't let me unless I provide you with the credentials of my lawyer. <- yeh okay dude. 2. pretty much as you said. 3. But I paid you in advance, and you kicked me out, because I won't be coerced to sign the shady contract, which I didn't want to sign before running it through my lawyer first. 4. You violated a contract you didn't even sign, so I get to keep the monies. 5. I didn't sign it. 6. har har, i never got your money. Now that I provided the actual context, better? Basically, he should have been forced to sign the contract before he moved in. or they should have just sent Fuzer a copy of the contract so he could run it through his lawyer. How's that even hard? How? Why does MoW even want Fuzer's lawyer's credentials or whatever? What does it even concern them? Let's just omit all that and post pictures of kittens  Or, you can just not give random people money. You know? It's kind of standard in life. Would you just give some random guy $500? No, but that's what fuzer did. Never signed the contract, so this is his problem. He's the one who fucked up. Sneaky or not, MoW>fuzer. except for MoW isn't a random someone, they've had notable community figures visiting their house, notable endorsements such as Razer, Twitch...etc. With all those "credentials", you would expect some decency, honesty, and some ethics.....or not lol. Not even sneaky, this is shady, unethical business practice at best. I'd suggest you to watch DarkForce's video response or read what FXOBoSs has to say so you can understand the whole issue better. No, I understand it. Just people acting stupid to other people acting stupid. Both sides here are pretty stupid. They both fucked up, I get that they aren't some random somebody. But holy fuck, don't send them money in the first place without a contract, that shit is shady. No idea why people are defending fuzer anyways
No you don't understand it.. Did you even read the part where Fuzer requested a copy of the contract so he could run it through his lawyer, but it was denied by MoW? and MoW, for some reason wanted to see the lawyer's credentials? IMO, wanting a lawyer to go through your contract before signing it isn't stupid at all.
hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn't change the fact that MoW's contract is full of shit and the Boss guy is a very shady individual..etc.
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On September 14 2012 04:12 Troxle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 03:48 eight.BiT wrote:On September 14 2012 03:28 Veriol wrote:
Rofl this hate against MoW ur all blind or what.
Fuzer goes to poland
1) He doesnt read contract
2) He pays 1200$ without asking for receipt or anything.
3) Then lives in house OVER a month. Wihtout sining contract.
4) They ask him to sing or it leave and he makes TL drama and everyone starts hating on mow?
What im i missing please. Did you read anything in the two seperate threads on the subject besides the first few posts? 1) Non-native English speaker receives contract and reads it well enough to decide on his own that most of the contract is bullshit. Upon realizing this MoW revised the contract as request by Fuzer, which then Fuzer requested to be viewed by a lawyer for approval - which anyone SHOULD DO instead of blindly signing. This is his job, he's not just going there to play around and waste time. 2) Instead of letting Fuzer get the contract to a lawyer to look at, MoW requests the Lawyer's license before sending the document to be looked at. This is obviously bullshit as if Fuzer had requested his mom or anyone, even the fucking Hobo down the street to look at the contract - that should have been fine. 3) He pays 2 months worth of rent as a show of good faith to the house while the contract is being worked over. During this time if MoW really wanted to they could have signed partial agreements and then work out the areas of the contract in question at a previous date since they already had two months worth of pay from him. 4) I have a feeling most of the players that joined the house blindly signed this contract and are slowly also realizing that they maybe should have read it too. How can you possible attack someone for not being a big enough tool to sign a legally binding contract before understanding what is required from it? Everythin' in this post. There is no point attackin' Ministry of Win. They are a business, they make business decisions. How they went about these decisions may have been inappropriate (I don't know Polish Business, I don't have a degree in Business), but they did what they thought was in their best interest. Multiple companies do this. Refuse to reimburse for any damages suffered until you threaten to expose them and then all of a sudden they want to fork over everythin' they owe in a heartbeat. Its a common business practice. We all would hope eSports would be different, but in the end its all a business. Fuzer is the real winner in this situation currently because of his hesitation to sign a contract that he didn't trust and wantin' a lawyer to look it over. We should be praisin' him for havin' a brain instead of the people bashin' callin' him an idiot etc... It seems logical to think "they did what they thought was in their best interest" but sometimes peoples personalities simply shines through, for the better or worse.
Reputation can be extremely important and the impression I've gotten of MoW is that it's probably not something I would want to be involved with, even though I love the general concept and don't necessarily think they are evil or anything like that.
That's how it is and to be honest, just seriously considering non compete claueses for something like this would probably make me doubt their competence.
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Both sides are in the wrong, it is naive to blindly defend either side or raise pitchforks. honestly, this is a rather trivial issue, and those who are taking it so seriously should learn about the business world, its not butterflies and rainbows. It is unfortunate, but it is human nature. Honestly, MOW is not in the wrong for denying the money initially. From the information we have, they have a schedule and set everything up at least a month in advance. Its like getting a vacation and setting everything up through a travel agency. They then hire individuals, get restaurants ready, etc. If you dip out halfway through, they can't just go get that money back. It may seem immoral, but that's how the real world works.
The real issue is that MOW should have more stringent rules on setting the contract. It should be done ASAP when they agree to bring in a player. Their inexperience caused a lot of this to happen. Their poorly worded contract, their laxness with letting Fuzer in, etc. If anything, this whole thing was caused by them attempting to please their customer too much. They wanted Fuzer in and wanted to look good, so to keep him from complaining, they gave him almost 1 1/2 months to sign his contract to test the waters (do you really need a whole month to see what a house is like)? They should have given the contract to him well before he arrived and forced him to sign it or leave when arriving and before paying. Other issues seem to be the boss partying, but I believe Fuzer stated this ceased when the players talked to him about it. Food seems to be an issue as well, as the MOW pointed out that their players would be getting a well balanced diet along with exercise. I also want to hear more about this psychologist/motivator they have in the house.
Fuzer is guilty as well though, he had one month to negotiate his contract and contact his lawyer. While the ministry of win should have had the contract all sorted out when he arrived, it should not take one month to negotiate a contract over living in a gaming house. Apparently the contract was eventually negotiated, but only after that did Fuzer attempt to contact his lawyer. If he didn't like clauses before, why did he only contact his lawyer after the second draft, which supposedly included his amendments? If he couldn't understand it, how was the first contract amended? Fuzer seems to be holding back on this as well. He was also being naive or taking advantage of MOW when they allowed him to test the waters. Why pay when there is no contract or no record of payment? MOW should not be doing cash anyways.
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The suck up cat pictures do not please me. I shall just have to allow the pink butterflies to keep me calm about it.
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One question why would you have a NDA for a gaming house?
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On September 14 2012 05:01 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:59 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:54 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:On September 14 2012 04:51 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:47 ~Maverick~ wrote:On September 14 2012 04:45 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:37 Roman666 wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 coolguy00 wrote:
(Skype log, censored the name of the guy who runs MoW = Boss)
[11.9.2012 12:41:24] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you have to pay me back from th emoney
[11.9.2012 12:41:33] Boss: nope, I don't have
[11.9.2012 12:41:40] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: ok
[11.9.2012 12:41:50] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so i paid you from this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:53] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: and im not here for this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:56] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you give back my money
[11.9.2012 12:41:58] Boss: You are breaking the rules
[11.9.2012 12:42:02] Boss: you know how it works?
[11.9.2012 12:42:06] Boss: If not - read the contract again
[11.9.2012 12:42:08] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: well
[11.9.2012 12:42:11] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: as you said i didnt sign it
[11.9.2012 12:42:17] Boss: So I don't have your money
[11.9.2012 12:42:32] Boss: Do you have any confirmation?
[11.9.2012 12:42:41] Boss: No. So now you see my situation when you don't sign the contract.
I don't understand how anyone who has read this^ could still defend MoW or "Boss". I don't understand why people get so excited about this mouth off. It like: 1. Give me back my money I am leaving. 2. You are entitled to get shit. 3. But I paid you for the whole month in advance and I am leaving now. 4. You violated the rules of the contract. 5. Hahahaha I never signed it so I dont have to obey the rules! 6. Hahahaha I never got your money. In fact you were never here. except for 1. Give me back my money, you kicked me out because I didn't want to sign the contract before running it through my lawyer, which you wouldn't let me unless I provide you with the credentials of my lawyer. <- yeh okay dude. 2. pretty much as you said. 3. But I paid you in advance, and you kicked me out, because I won't be coerced to sign the shady contract, which I didn't want to sign before running it through my lawyer first. 4. You violated a contract you didn't even sign, so I get to keep the monies. 5. I didn't sign it. 6. har har, i never got your money. Now that I provided the actual context, better? Basically, he should have been forced to sign the contract before he moved in. or they should have just sent Fuzer a copy of the contract so he could run it through his lawyer. How's that even hard? How? Why does MoW even want Fuzer's lawyer's credentials or whatever? What does it even concern them? Let's just omit all that and post pictures of kittens Or, you can just not give random people money. You know? It's kind of standard in life. Would you just give some random guy $500? No, but that's what fuzer did. Never signed the contract, so this is his problem. He's the one who fucked up. Sneaky or not, MoW>fuzer. except for MoW isn't a random someone, they've had notable community figures visiting their house, notable endorsements such as Razer, Twitch...etc. With all those "credentials", you would expect some decency, honesty, and some ethics.....or not lol. Not even sneaky, this is shady, unethical business practice at best. I'd suggest you to watch DarkForce's video response or read what FXOBoSs has to say so you can understand the whole issue better. No, I understand it. Just people acting stupid to other people acting stupid. Both sides here are pretty stupid. They both fucked up, I get that they aren't some random somebody. But holy fuck, don't send them money in the first place without a contract, that shit is shady. No idea why people are defending fuzer anyways
there is a saying that should help you understand: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Trusting people (to the reasonable extent) is ok, fooling people is never ok. I find it very disappointing that in some peoples minds the opposite takes place.
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What i heard was "Everything is true but we weren't actually going to enforce it!".
More details on the food thing would have been nice.
The re-writing of the contract just confirms my feeling that this is all really shady and you were in the wrong the whole time.
Kitten pictures were seemed like a distraction.
I know the player in the wrong as well but MOW's handling of the situation was awful and their business model is sketchy as f***.
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On September 14 2012 01:34 RiSkyToss wrote:
The pictures are an insult to the whole community.
Sad but true.
Sure, we love cats. But using their cuteness to make us forgive you? Thinking that that would work is just ashaming.
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So this is confirmation of pretty much everything said before in Fuzer's post. And your apology. This should have come first not some stupid ESFI article that you use to try and spin the situation in your favor. Seems like you shot yourself and now that the community is bleeding you out, youve decided to own up to this and apologize. Then try to suck up by posting stupid pictures of cats. Id say your image is tarnished regardless of this late apology.
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Don't they know that some people are allergic to anything cat related. I know some people who can't even stand seeing a cat on TV or picture.
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On September 14 2012 05:16 nyaru267 wrote:
One question why would you have a NDA for a gaming house?
why would you have salaries for people who play computer games
+ Show Spoiler +they're trying to run a serious business (but screwed up here  )
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Like the saying goes "you're not sorry, you're sorry you got caught".
MoW didn't say "we made mistakes" they said "mistakes have been made".
fuck off
or apologize properly
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On September 14 2012 05:08 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Both sides are in the wrong, it is naive to blindly defend either side or raise pitchforks. honestly, this is a rather trivial issue, and those who are taking it so seriously should learn about the business world, its not butterflies and rainbows. It is unfortunate, but it is human nature. Honestly, MOW is not in the wrong for denying the money initially. From the information we have, they have a schedule and set everything up at least a month in advance. Its like getting a vacation and setting everything up through a travel agency. They then hire individuals, get restaurants ready, etc. If you dip out halfway through, they can't just go get that money back. It may seem immoral, but that's how the real world works.
Thats the risk you take when you dont get contracts and then decide to kick the client out because you dont like him. Hell, someone even said in this thread according to the law you cant make a clause in the contract which allows you to fail at delivering the services and still keep the money.
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On September 14 2012 05:22 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:16 nyaru267 wrote:
One question why would you have a NDA for a gaming house? why would you have salaries for people who play computer games + Show Spoiler +they're trying to run a serious business (but screwed up here )
They aren't giving the players salary's so I don't get your point?
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On September 14 2012 01:21 HornyHerring wrote:
Do you own a copyright for those kitten pictures? I demand a new drama thread about it.
LMAO! lol
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On September 14 2012 05:04 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:01 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:On September 14 2012 04:59 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:54 EuLoGy[kTw] wrote:On September 14 2012 04:51 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:47 ~Maverick~ wrote:On September 14 2012 04:45 dacimvrl wrote:On September 14 2012 04:37 Roman666 wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 coolguy00 wrote:
(Skype log, censored the name of the guy who runs MoW = Boss)
[11.9.2012 12:41:24] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you have to pay me back from th emoney
[11.9.2012 12:41:33] Boss: nope, I don't have
[11.9.2012 12:41:40] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: ok
[11.9.2012 12:41:50] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so i paid you from this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:53] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: and im not here for this month
[11.9.2012 12:41:56] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: so you give back my money
[11.9.2012 12:41:58] Boss: You are breaking the rules
[11.9.2012 12:42:02] Boss: you know how it works?
[11.9.2012 12:42:06] Boss: If not - read the contract again
[11.9.2012 12:42:08] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: well
[11.9.2012 12:42:11] Samuli "Fuzer" Romppanen: as you said i didnt sign it
[11.9.2012 12:42:17] Boss: So I don't have your money
[11.9.2012 12:42:32] Boss: Do you have any confirmation?
[11.9.2012 12:42:41] Boss: No. So now you see my situation when you don't sign the contract.
I don't understand how anyone who has read this^ could still defend MoW or "Boss". I don't understand why people get so excited about this mouth off. It like: 1. Give me back my money I am leaving. 2. You are entitled to get shit. 3. But I paid you for the whole month in advance and I am leaving now. 4. You violated the rules of the contract. 5. Hahahaha I never signed it so I dont have to obey the rules! 6. Hahahaha I never got your money. In fact you were never here. except for 1. Give me back my money, you kicked me out because I didn't want to sign the contract before running it through my lawyer, which you wouldn't let me unless I provide you with the credentials of my lawyer. <- yeh okay dude. 2. pretty much as you said. 3. But I paid you in advance, and you kicked me out, because I won't be coerced to sign the shady contract, which I didn't want to sign before running it through my lawyer first. 4. You violated a contract you didn't even sign, so I get to keep the monies. 5. I didn't sign it. 6. har har, i never got your money. Now that I provided the actual context, better? Basically, he should have been forced to sign the contract before he moved in. or they should have just sent Fuzer a copy of the contract so he could run it through his lawyer. How's that even hard? How? Why does MoW even want Fuzer's lawyer's credentials or whatever? What does it even concern them? Let's just omit all that and post pictures of kittens Or, you can just not give random people money. You know? It's kind of standard in life. Would you just give some random guy $500? No, but that's what fuzer did. Never signed the contract, so this is his problem. He's the one who fucked up. Sneaky or not, MoW>fuzer. except for MoW isn't a random someone, they've had notable community figures visiting their house, notable endorsements such as Razer, Twitch...etc. With all those "credentials", you would expect some decency, honesty, and some ethics.....or not lol. Not even sneaky, this is shady, unethical business practice at best. I'd suggest you to watch DarkForce's video response or read what FXOBoSs has to say so you can understand the whole issue better. No, I understand it. Just people acting stupid to other people acting stupid. Both sides here are pretty stupid. They both fucked up, I get that they aren't some random somebody. But holy fuck, don't send them money in the first place without a contract, that shit is shady. No idea why people are defending fuzer anyways No you don't understand it.. Did you even read the part where Fuzer requested a copy of the contract so he could run it through his lawyer, but it was denied by MoW? and MoW, for some reason wanted to see the lawyer's credentials? IMO, wanting a lawyer to go through your contract before signing it isn't stupid at all. hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn't change the fact that MoW's contract is full of shit and the Boss guy is a very shady individual..etc.
Yes, I do understand it. I read it, still his fault. I'm sorry that fuzer isn't actually a smart person. He's an idiot. The end.
Let me add some more, he sent them money before a contract. That's all that needs to be said here.
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On September 14 2012 05:20 regiment wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:34 RiSkyToss wrote:
The pictures are an insult to the whole community. Sad but true. Sure, we love cats. But using their cuteness to make us forgive you? Thinking that that would work is just ashaming.
Oh come on. You are such drama queens.
Guys, he just posted cute kitten pics? We are on the Internet, you forgot?
Seriously....
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I wonder if any of the kids who messaged sponsors will message them again if this is enough to solve the issues and explain them. Probably not.
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Wow, people sure do live to throw tar and feathers when they think they've caught someone else doing something wrong. Rofl @ some of the vitriol directed towards MoW in this thread. Why in god's name do you care that much?
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Oh my Jesus, all of this was and still is just amazing. This is basically Hanlon's Razor: The Thread 
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EPT
