|
|
On September 13 2012 17:23 Shinobi1982 wrote:- House guest slavery - Late night staff parties - Awful food (yes I said it) - Delay of official statement - Withholding money in a shady way - Player not allowed to join another gaming house in the coming 10 years..... ...Stephano said it the best...
- Joining a house with a rent and strict rules and paying blindly without reading/signing any contract......Stephano said it the best...
When i rent a new appartment, i read the lease...and I don't pay anything until the owner and I signed it. Like...everybody !
|
That MoW statement was about as useless as a quadrapalegic in a game of twister
|
i mean the MoW house apparently gets 600 $ per player per month, plus sponsor money and the streaming revenue
and they still serve bad food and try to scam for some euros ?
thats sad ... where does all the money go to ?
|
On September 13 2012 17:43 Dakmaniac wrote:
i mean the MoW house apparently gets 600 $ per player per month, plus sponsor money and the streaming revenue
and they still serve bad food and try to scam for some euros ?
thats sad ... where does all the money go to ?
for boss to partyyyy! 
|
On September 13 2012 17:35 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 17:23 Shinobi1982 wrote:- House guest slavery - Late night staff parties - Awful food (yes I said it) - Delay of official statement - Withholding money in a shady way - Player not allowed to join another gaming house in the coming 10 years..... ...Stephano said it the best... - Joining a house with a rent and strict rules and paying blindly without reading/signing any contract... ...Stephano said it the best...
Well played man, well played :D
|
Paying MoW 600 Euros a month AND being forced to stream AND then share that revenue must put most aspiring pro gamers in a really tough spot financially. Not to mention, all that streaming makes your play style available for study by any opponents. Because of this, doing well in tournaments becomes more difficult because anyone worth their salt will have been watching your 5 hours a day of streaming SC2. Its a vicious cycle.
Can anyone confirm or clarify on this 10 year madness? No joining another team for 10 years? WTF? What is wrong with your run of the mill non-disclosure agreement?
|
If I had made the mistake of living somewhere without a contract, thought I was down €600 and then managed to get it offered back, I'd take it and run and count myself lucky for being so fucking stupid and not losing my money like I obviously deserved to.
Only problem I see here is that both parties didn't negotiate and get a contract signed before Fuzer moved in. Everything else, 100% of it, is irrelevant compared to that.
As for the actual conditions of the house... well, seems to be mainly positive judging by what people who actually lived there have said, but I don't care, people don't HAVE to live there. But Fuzer and MoW both fucked up in a huge way by not getting a contract before he went.
Edit 1:
On September 13 2012 17:52 ins(out)side wrote:
Paying MoW 600 Euros a month AND being forced to stream AND then share that revenue must put most aspiring pro gamers in a really tough spot financially. Not to mention, all that streaming makes your play style available for study by any opponents. Because of this, doing well in tournaments becomes more difficult because anyone worth their salt will have been watching your 5 hours a day of streaming SC2. Its a vicious cycle.
Can anyone confirm or clarify on this 10 year madness? No joining another team for 10 years? WTF? What is wrong with your run of the mill non-disclosure agreement?
If paying that and giving away stream revenue puts an "aspiring pro gamer" in a "tough spot financially ", they shouldn't fucking move in in the first place. If people think it's a rip off they shouldn't live there. Clearly, some don't as people are living there.
Edit 2: And they just can't START a for-profit team house for 10y. They're not forbidden from being on a team or being in a house to train. Again, though, that should've been enshrined in contract before anyone lived there, or else taken out after scrutiny.
|
Also TBH I found it kinda funny that the people in their interviews (Ret and Titan) are both 2 of 3 people I believe who were selected to live in the MoW house for 3 months free. So that seems like a good representation of the dynamics behind MoW in relation to players like Fuzer..... (sarcasm)
|
If paying that and giving away stream revenue puts an "aspiring pro gamer" in a "tough spot financially ", they shouldn't fucking move in in the first place. If people think it's a rip off they shouldn't live there. Clearly, some don't as people are living there.
did you read the part where Fuzer knew of this stream clause afterhand ?
|
On September 13 2012 17:52 ins(out)side wrote:
Paying MoW 600 Euros a month AND being forced to stream AND then share that revenue must put most aspiring pro gamers in a really tough spot financially. Not to mention, all that streaming makes your play style available for study by any opponents. Because of this, doing well in tournaments becomes more difficult because anyone worth their salt will have been watching your 5 hours a day of streaming SC2. Its a vicious cycle.
Can anyone confirm or clarify on this 10 year madness? No joining another team for 10 years? WTF? What is wrong with your run of the mill non-disclosure agreement?
For the billionth time, Fuzer misinterpreted or something. It didn't say not join another team/team house, it said that you can't set up your own training house, or join one as coach. I guess they don't want their 'trade secrets' exposed. Again, this is not uncommon in the business world.
Also, stop whining about the 600EUR and Revenue Share in streaming. First of all, MoW is a business, it's clients know what they're getting into, if they can't afford it, then they can simply look for other options. MoW can ask for such an amount, because it has no competition in the West, unless you're on a team. Secondly, apparently MoW has a deal with Twitch for better conditions or something, so streaming on the MoW channel would actually be beneficial to both parties, especially for someone like Fuzer and other 'smaller' names, as they still wouldn't get as many viewers otherwise.
MoW asking Fuzer's lawyer to submit his licence is stupid. Fuzer asking permission to send the contract to his lawyer is also stupid. NDAs don't prohibit you from speaking to your lawyer, ever, as having legal representation is a human right.
Stop this witch-hunt, it's idiotic. Both parties slipped up, no use in trying to ruin a (so far) legitimate business because someone's English was not that good.
|
Are any other unfortunate players still there...
|
On September 13 2012 18:01 zeross wrote:Show nested quote +If paying that and giving away stream revenue puts an "aspiring pro gamer" in a "tough spot financially ", they shouldn't fucking move in in the first place. If people think it's a rip off they shouldn't live there. Clearly, some don't as people are living there. did you read the part where Fuzer knew of this stream clause afterhand ?
Then we go back to the main point of my post that he should've got a contract BEFORE he went. It's his own fault (and MoW's fault for not making him get one too)
|
The most serious problem of MoW is their PR. I have said it many times and i say it again, their press releses, the information they provide (or rather lack off) its hurting them. They should hire someone to do this job for them if they cant handle it themselves because its actualy hurting their buisness. Take this case for example, they are handling it poorly and almost anyone with half a brain could spin it/ minimize the damges.
Like this:
"We are very sorry about the whole situation. We are not pleesed with with Fuzer leaving but we feel its a necesseity for the good of other players and our project. Now adressing the points that are most important to the comunity.
1.Time of signig the contracts, yes we fuck up. We should deal with this issue first, but we didnt have problems with previous players, and we trusted it will be the same with Fuzer, sadly it was not true. This is our mistake.
2.About the chatlog, "I was very angry during the whole conversation and i felt betrayed, i apologize for my words and the "tone i used", allow us to work this isuue with Fuzer in privet.
3.The food, we are very sorry Fuzer didnt like the food, other players do not have problems with it. We will take a closer look at this in future.
4.10 years thing, we feel need to protect our idea and project. I thing everyone can understand that as we invested out time, sweat and money into it. We intend to protect it, with contract. Therefore we strictly forbid our players, of joing or creating similiar gaming house. This do not include already established "team houses" , as this something different than our project. He can join Slayers or whatever house he wishes just dont copy our buisness model.
5.Prices. You guys, underestimate both the cost and invastments we had to make in order to make this project going. Someone who didnt run his own busines do not grasp the complication of the process. Yes we do intend to make a profit in the future, be right now we are still in the red and we will be for a long time".
Please allow us to work this issues in privet with Fuzer, we are sure we can come to an agreement.
Follow us on twitter,facbook and visit our site at....
"
PS. Ii took me like 3 minutes to write this, someone more fluent in english and with expertise in PR could do a much better job i am sure.
PS2. I am not taking either side, i just want to stress how fucking terrible job at PR they are doing.
|
On September 13 2012 18:10 Silvanel wrote:
The most serious problem of MoW is their PR. I have said it many times and i say it again, their press releses, the information they provide (or rather lack off) its hurting them. They should hire someone to do this job for them if they cant handle it themselves because its actualy hurting their buisness. Take this case for example, they are handling it poorly and almost anyone with half a brain could spin it/ minimize the damges.
Like this:
"We are very sorry about the whole situation. We are not pleesed with with Fuzer leaving but we feel its a necesseity for the good of other players and our project. Now adressing the points that are most important to the comunity.
1.Time of signig the contracts, yes we fuck up. We should deal with this issue first, but we didnt have problems with previous players, and we trusted it will be the same with Fuzer, sadly it was not true. This is our mistake.
2.About the chatlog, "I was very angry during the whole conversation and i felt betrayed, i apologize for my words and the "tone i used", allow us to work this isuue with Fuzer in privet.
3.The food, we are very sorry Fuzer didnt like the food, other players do not have problems with it. We will take a closer look at this in future.
4.10 years thing, we feel need to protect our idea and project. I thing everyone can understand that as we invested out time, sweat and money into it. We intend to protect it, with contract. Therefore we strictly forbid our players, of joing or creating similiar gaming house. This do not include already established "team houses" , as this something different than our project. He can join Slayers or whatever house he wishes just dont copy our buisness model.
5.Prices. You guys, underestimate both the cost and invastments we had to make in order to make this project going. Someone who didnt run his own busines do not grasp the complication of the process. Yes we do intend to make a profit in the future, be right now we are still in the red and we will be for a long time".
Please allow us to work this issues in privet with Fuzer, we are sure we can come to an agreement.
Follow us on twitter,facbook and visit our site at....
"
This I do agree with as a legitimate concern. I'm incredibly lenient with broken English in general, and I'd never grammar nazi someone, but a business really should get someone who speaks and writes more fluently to do PR if they're going to be doing business in English.
EDIT: But then, this is constructive criticism rather than needing to be brought up in 100 pages of vitriol and mindless hate.
|
This case is kind of serious and for me personally - shocking.
Of course, first of all, Fuzer should get his money back without ANY excuses. It's the matter of honor, dignity and common sense: not to take what's not yours. I won't even comment the skype conversation with MoW boss...
Secondly, MoW's reputation was hurt badly and it's not the first time when that particular person (boss of MoW) ruins e-sports here in Poland.
Now, we're coming to the final and the most important point of this conversation - food.
Just to clarify: 1 hot meal per day is standard in Poland/Eastern EU? (someone wrote that here...) Maybe if you're a student or a hobo (no offense). As an average working polish mortal I couldn't live without 2-3 hot meals per day, and that is normal. Single bloody dinner consist of 2 hot meals here...
I don't know the MoW's food politics. Maybe they provide just one hot meal and 20 vegetable/fruit salads per day. Maybe if you want to eat more, you must hunt a chicken or two in McDonalds. I don't really care about it but sorry Fuzer, you just wrote something that looks like they'd jail you, starve to death or something, and this is what I can't believe.
|
On September 13 2012 17:35 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 17:23 Shinobi1982 wrote:- House guest slavery - Late night staff parties - Awful food (yes I said it) - Delay of official statement - Withholding money in a shady way - Player not allowed to join another gaming house in the coming 10 years..... ...Stephano said it the best... - Joining a house with a rent and strict rules and paying blindly without reading/signing any contract... ...Stephano said it the best...When i rent a new appartment, i read the lease...and I don't pay anything until the owner and I signed it. Like...everybody !
That's completely beside the point. Yes, of course Fuzer should have demanded to read the contract before he went anywhere or paid anything. This is irrelevant.Two wrongs don't make a right.
The relevant part is that MoW is an unscrupulous organization that hides these draconian conditions from their customers. If you have a revenue-sharing requirement and a 10-year non-competition clause, you HAVE to make that clear up front.
It is absolutely unethical to do otherwise.
(I won't comment on the food and staff parties thing, because that seems pretty subjective and ultimately not a huge deal)
|
Just from a legal perspective, I doubt any court would uphold a ten-year non-compete. Especially in Europe, where most non-competes last anywhere from six months to three years. A key fact in non-competes is that it must be both reasonable in time and scope.
|
I wish people we spend half as much energy on positive projects that they spend on witchhunting.. seriously >_<
|
On September 13 2012 17:35 Agathon wrote:- Joining a house with a rent and strict rules and paying blindly without reading/signing any contract... ...Stephano said it the best...When i rent a new appartment, i read the lease...and I don't pay anything until the owner and I signed it. Like...everybody !
oral contracts are just as valid as written ones
Edit: he had been told otherwise before entering the house, which is my observation
|
On September 13 2012 18:21 obsu51 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 17:35 Agathon wrote:- Joining a house with a rent and strict rules and paying blindly without reading/signing any contract... ...Stephano said it the best...When i rent a new appartment, i read the lease...and I don't pay anything until the owner and I signed it. Like...everybody ! oral contracts are just as valid as written ones
I can sing up under this statement as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
