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As emotionally invested as people are on this topic, TL rules still apply. That includes flaming and ad hominem attacks. |
On August 31 2012 03:48 BazookaBenji wrote:
Wow, what a perfect end to steven bonnell's career....going out as a homosexually bad mannered league of legends player not even good enough for ROOT....lmao...it's too bad his gay lover BlueTea finally lashed out......i never liked destiny...he always had the personality of a repressed masochistic bottom gay.
I like how most of the "contra-Destiny" poster are using offensive language themself
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On August 31 2012 03:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:35 Grimmyman123 wrote:On August 31 2012 03:32 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On August 31 2012 03:27 TheExile19 wrote:On August 31 2012 03:25 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
The people defending the lynching of Destiny have no arguments extending past: "but, but... he was mean to this girl, the girl was just mean back". try actually reading all 100 pages or reading even one, you'd be surprised If you got an example of a good argument please direct me that way. I really want to see it, but wading through 2000 posts in order to try find a unicorn isn't worth my time. It is hard to gauge what you feel a good argument is, since both of your posts so far are only a single sentence long, and you couldn't be bothered to read the entire thread, thereby invalidating your "posts" as it were. It is hard to have an opinion without having taken the time to basic research on the topic at hand. I've followed this story from the beginning, reading the chat log, the statements from Destiny, Bluetea, Catz etc. Reading all 2000 posts of random gibberish in this thread isn't necessary to do "basic research on the topic at hand".
it is necessary if you don't want to look da fool when you make the most sweeping generalization possible about a population you clearly haven't sourced adequately. also, generally good faith arguments begin with someone who questions the legitimacy of an opposing stance throwing out some starting statements instead of strawman snark and misrepresentation.
basically, you suck and every bit of your posting has been contradictory. good summation for the thread, really.
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On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me.
you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours
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On August 31 2012 03:42 Shebuha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:32 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On August 31 2012 03:27 TheExile19 wrote:On August 31 2012 03:25 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
The people defending the lynching of Destiny have no arguments extending past: "but, but... he was mean to this girl, the girl was just mean back". try actually reading all 100 pages or reading even one, you'd be surprised If you got an example of a good argument please direct me that way. I really want to see it, but wading through 2000 posts in order to try find a unicorn isn't worth my time. "Hi, all your arguments suck and can be summed up in this quote from a 13 year old stutterer" "There are good arguments out there, you just clearly haven't looked" "I'm lazy as shit and refuse to read to find them, so back to my original point." ????? If you are too damn lazy to read and inform yourself of opposing arguments before you dismiss them then don't post. And if this isn't worth your time then don't post.
I've read a lot of post on this subject already. I haven't found any good arguments and I don't feel like spending my night reading ALL 2000 posts trying to find something I don't think exists. If you think there's a great argument you can link it or not, it's up to you. Was that clear enough for you?
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On August 31 2012 03:52 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me. you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours
I wish you luck with dealing with the trolls.
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On August 31 2012 03:54 Picklebread wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:52 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me. you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours I wish you luck with dealing with the trolls.
thank you =)
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On August 31 2012 03:52 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me. you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours
Whatever. I don't give a fuck.
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On August 31 2012 03:28 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 01:38 -_-Quails wrote:On August 31 2012 00:58 KoRStarvid wrote:On August 31 2012 00:40 Tyree wrote:
Contacting the sponsors is absolutely fine in this case
This community, as well as the one on reddit or anywhere is else is not responsible for these players and the stupid shit some of them do, whether its racism, sexism, bigotry, general douchey behavior, homophobia, pedophilia or whatever else you can come up with.
Sponsors dont not wish to be associated with such individuals for obvious reasons, calling them out on it and putting a spotlight is the only right thing to do.
The community is not here to cover up for your inability like a professional This can certainly be argued, imo. I believe that what Destiny did here was distasteful. I wouldn't personally want to be associated with someone who shares private pictures with his friends. Is it my business though? No, it isn't. We basically have the power to destroy anyone professionally who is dependant on sponsorship, if we rally in large enough numbers, at least in this business. There's no question about that. I would never believe that I had the right to do it though. To believe the opposite, well, that kind of self-righteousness sickens me. Support those who you want to support, and let others be, and the business side will take care of it self. If I know that player X is sponsored by brand y and player x does z controversial thing, then my telling brand y that I'm uncomfortable with them supporting player x because player x has done z is not me ruining player x's career. It is me telling brand y what is currently affecting my perception of their brand. It is not me being self-righteous either. it's me providing market information without prompt. It is the moral equivalent of e-mailing sponsors to say that their decision to sponsor player a who is a nice guy that does b thing gives you warm fuzzies when you think about their brand. The reason that those complaints often result in consequences in e-sports is that they are often based on things that brands quite strongly do not want to be associated with - racism and the like. Full disclosure: I have not at present e-mailed any sponsors of any players or teams for negative or positive reasons. I may do so in the future if I feel the need. Also, once something becomes public, you are free to judge it any way you want - just like Tiger Wood's adultery. You have to distinguish theory from practice. What has this kind of feedback resulted in eSPORTS historically? People have lost their jobs. It just seems to be the way it has worked in this business so far. If the public believe that that is a punishment that fits the crime, then they are free to make it happen, as they have done now and will continue to do. No one can stop them. Is it " absolutely fine"? In my opinion: hell no. These things work themselves out, and should be left alone to do so. There are more important things at stake here than your opinions. It is self-righteous to try to get someone fired and taking away their livelyhood. That might not be what you are wanting to do when you're mailing the sponsors, saying you don't like someone because of what he does/says, but it is in fact what you are doing. And in any case, IF you are so inclined to voice your opinions about a player, then go to the team first, not the sponsors. And if someone is commiting illegal acts (expressing racist opinions can be illegal for example), there are other ways of handling that, obviously. Everyone are free to judge, and people sure as hell are gonna judge, as they always have. They did that with Tiger Woods, as you say. But I don't think witch hunts are OK based on the single fact that they do exist. I actually hate the phenomenon. And if you disagree, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
If you contact a sponsor letting them know that you think less of their brand because of things, people or whatever they're sponsoring, I think that is you acting as a responsible consumer.
If Coca Cola sponsored Hitler, you bet I'd write them and let them know it's affecting my purchasing habits.
And yes, sponsorships do affect me. I own 2 samsung tv's and a samsung monitor because of Samsung Khan. Sponsoring something is a show of support for the sponsoree's actions. Generally sponsors want to be remembered for the positive achievements of their sponsorees, but nothing in life is unilateral like that.
It is absolutely fine to contact sponsors when it is a legitimate concern over the people they are paying and how that affects your purchasing habits.
Now, if you're doing it just to be spiteful, and initiating a "witch hunt" as you call it, no, that is not fine. But I wouldn't financially support Destiny, which means I wouldn't purchase products from a sponsor of his knowingly (obviously companies sponsor a lot more people than I can keep track of). Call me some name if you like, but I call myself a responsible consumer.
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On August 31 2012 03:55 Ntwadumela wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:52 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me. you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours Whatever. I don't give a fuck.
yeah I can tell you're already way too cool for that, u're not a dork who plays saxophone and u fuck bitches
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Not going to talk about who was wrong or who was more wrong.
If you are looking to have a professional scene, you need professional teams. If he was on another team, would he have been cut? I can not answer that... I'd guess that he probably would have been cut but not sure.
Look at any other professional sport/league, where have teams not stood behind their players? I guess with an infant team/sport, sponsors are the biggest factor but in any other legitimate sport - name me some players that were cut for an event that had nothing to do with the team or players on the team. Just the threat of cut sponsors was enough to have him cut? Not professional level to me. Maybe this is only a response ROOT would take and not another team but I am not so sure.
If I was a professional player, I would not be considering ROOT because at the first sign of trouble (let's be honest, all Destiny did was have a private conversation where he shared a nude picture that was sent to him, with some friends) they would be cutting me at the threat of losing some sponsors.
Remember, they cut him at the threat of lost sponsorship. The threat of lost sponsorship came at false accusation filled emails from those reddit beta white knights. Professional teams stand by their players, would stand up to sponsors (and outline to them that those accusations were false).
There was some other ROOT players I enjoyed watching (proxy hatching fitzy was one for example), but now out of principle, I will watch other teams and their players.
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On August 31 2012 03:58 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:55 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:52 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:51 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:48 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 31 2012 03:42 Ntwadumela wrote:On August 31 2012 03:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 31 2012 03:26 Ntwadumela wrote:
He played the saxophone. Need I say more? I played the saxophone too, so did Bill Clinton. Your point? Your joke needs more umph or pizazz. My point is Bill and Destiny have both had their careers hindered by women. You may be next. Also the saxophone is kind of a dorky instrument. which instrument is not dorky your highness Don't talk to me. you're lucky you haven't been banned yet with that previous comment of yours Whatever. I don't give a fuck. yeah I can tell you're already way too cool for that, u're not a dork who plays saxophone and u fuck bitches
Are you like his little lap dog or something?
Steven call your little pet off me. Hes starting to snap at my ankles.
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On August 31 2012 03:55 Shai wrote:
It is absolutely fine to contact sponsors when it is a legitimate concern over the people they are paying and how that affects your purchasing habits.
If you have a legitimate concern over a player first email the player and the team, because they are responsible for it. Messaging sponsors should be the last resort Imho you should leave the sponsors out of as much drama as possible because it will hurt the scene in the longrun.
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You have the right to complain to sponsors about players/teams you dislike, certainly. But if all that people contribute to the scene is negative feedback, that may hurt it as a whole. For every bit of nerd rage, you should give out some nerd approval, too. :D
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I got to ask, but how people actually wrote an e-mail to sponsor(s) saying that they like a person? I'm starting to think that people only write an e-mail to send nothing but negative respones.
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On August 31 2012 03:52 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 03:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On August 31 2012 03:35 Grimmyman123 wrote:On August 31 2012 03:32 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On August 31 2012 03:27 TheExile19 wrote:On August 31 2012 03:25 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
The people defending the lynching of Destiny have no arguments extending past: "but, but... he was mean to this girl, the girl was just mean back". try actually reading all 100 pages or reading even one, you'd be surprised If you got an example of a good argument please direct me that way. I really want to see it, but wading through 2000 posts in order to try find a unicorn isn't worth my time. It is hard to gauge what you feel a good argument is, since both of your posts so far are only a single sentence long, and you couldn't be bothered to read the entire thread, thereby invalidating your "posts" as it were. It is hard to have an opinion without having taken the time to basic research on the topic at hand. I've followed this story from the beginning, reading the chat log, the statements from Destiny, Bluetea, Catz etc. Reading all 2000 posts of random gibberish in this thread isn't necessary to do "basic research on the topic at hand". it is necessary if you don't want to look da fool when you make the most sweeping generalization possible about a population you clearly haven't sourced adequately. also, generally good faith arguments begin with someone who questions the legitimacy of an opposing stance throwing out some starting statements instead of strawman snark and misrepresentation. basically, you suck and every bit of your posting has been contradictory.
The post you read most certainly was a snarky generalization. I don't mind posting those when i see fit. It's weird though, how you assume that the post you read was the first I made on this topic. It wasn't, which makes your argument invalid because you've failed to do "basic research on the topic at hand". I won't post a link though.
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On August 31 2012 01:16 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 01:14 aBstractx wrote:
if i ever make it to a lan with destiny present, do not worry guys, i will personally hand a beating to the faggot for everybody. that gigantic ass head on that 8 year old body needs his ass whooped seriously. kid has no respect be ready to face consequences for your actions
If only Destiny would take the advice of his ex-teammate.
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On August 31 2012 02:35 -_-Quails wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 02:18 Morphs wrote:
Hopefully everyone reading this will realize that this whole ordeal is mostly a reflective mirror: whatever you think of this situation or how you react to it mostly says something about yourself and your own beliefs. This wasn't part of Stevens public streaming as far as I understand. It's a private matter that stands apart from the public Steven that everyone here knows. Hence, the only correct action here for us is to have no opinion... it's simply a waste of energy to get all fuzzed up about this.
By your reasoning then the same could be said about Tiger Wood's adultery. Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 02:30 marttorn wrote:On August 31 2012 02:28 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Wow, this seems like Destiny got royally screwed over, but I guess that's what you get for being such an asshole to people who've given you their trust. (And to whom you've given your passwords!) Indeed, I think most of us can agree that giving someone your twitter password, access to your skype logs and pictures of your penis is not a good combination, especially if you have a habit of talking about the person in question behind their back and calling them hideous. Wise words.
A lion wouldn't betray his wife, but a tiger wood
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On August 31 2012 03:23 Ntwadumela wrote:
He brags about getting pictures of girls like hes the only one who is privileged to such things.
News flash NERD, this is pretty common for most guys. Don't get all excited and tell your friends when some horse face sends you a picture.
Maybe, if he wasn't so insecure and pathetic he could of spared himself this embarrassment. I'm glad he didn't though. I'm having a lot of fun laughing on his expense.
LOL! GUYS I GOT SO MANY FAN GIRS!!!!! LOL What a dork..
He bragged about it amongst his close circle of friends, which every guy does, and not to the world, at least intentionally. You sound really butthurt and jealous really.
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http://i.imgur.com/g5KGz.jpg
if only all sponsors actually stand up for the people they sponsor instead of jumping to "get him the hell out", maybe then Destiny wouldn't have lost his team for being human. Props to Cloud Nine Labs for not being completely hippocratic because any sponsor who goes against the person their sponsoring are.
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On August 31 2012 03:15 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 02:52 Defacer wrote:On August 31 2012 01:30 Sokrates wrote:On August 31 2012 00:40 Tyree wrote:
Contacting the sponsors is absolutely fine in this case
This community, as well as the one on reddit or anywhere is else is not responsible for these players and the stupid shit some of them do, whether its racism, sexism, bigotry, general douchey behavior, homophobia, pedophilia or whatever else you can come up with.
Sponsors dont not wish to be associated with such individuals for obvious reasons, calling them out on it and putting a spotlight is the only right thing to do.
The community is not here to cover up for your inability like a professional Yeah right, let us all turn professional players into colourless figures that are well mannered and type GG every time. They shouldnt talk about private stuff, only should talk about the game. I guess NOBODY is happy with that. People want drama and want to know more about the players than just about their results. I like people with personality much more than shadeless people who appear as robots. I like people as stephano (even though he is a arrogant dick in laddergames sometimes), MC, marineking, destiny, and idra. You guys dont get that consequences this kind of stuff has. If people are pitchforking the sponsors because of a misbehavior of a player, players will stop showing any personality at all. They will appear as robots because they are afraid of punishment. I like emotions in sports and i like emotions in esports. I like it when idra doesnt GG if he doesnt feel like it. Some people hate or love him for doing that. And people also want the players to talk their mind and not just meaningless stuff that doesnt offend anyone. If you keep msging the sponsors, you will take away a big part of what makes esports interessting. You know what the key difference between players like MC, marineking, Idra, Stephano and Destiny is? MC, marineking, idra and Stephano ARE ACTUALLY GOOD AT STARCRAFT. They're professional PLAYERS. They have results to prove it. Destiny is not the 'Dennis Rodman' or 'Ron Artest' of Starcraft 2. He's more like a fan with season tickets that bitches and whines on the sidelines. Or a beer league baller that's a big basketball fan that can do one dunk. If I were to be really, really charitable, he would be Bill Simmons without the talent or writing ability. Destiny is more of a fun, expendable personality than an actual player. He makes money from interacting and trolling the community, not from actually playing it well. If you want to compare the value of 'personalities' of players like Destiny, compare him to Combatex. It is not about the result he shows, its about the punishment he got as a player in a team caused by a shitstorm about what he has done in his private life. Which means any player will suffer from this kind of punishment if people continue messaging the sponsors about trivial stuff.
The world is full of people that have done way, way way worse stuff than Destiny has and gotten away with it.
It's not fair. At all. But it's also not a coincidence, or unavoidable. There's a reason that this kind of shit routinely happens to Destiny. And it all comes down to his attitude and approach to life.
Do you think something like this would happen to JP? Or Husky? Or Day9? I'm sure that these guys have done their share of stupid shit. But they also aren't the kind of people that trust strangers with their passwords. And then talk shit about these people.
They also keep a very distinct separation between their personal and business lives, and covet it to the point that other people respect it. They're also proactive about communicating or taking responsibility for their mistakes.
You can say that Destiny didn't do anything wrong, but it's not like Destiny was doing a lot of things right, either. When you take your job and other people seriously, guess what -- other people take your job and your reputation seriously too.
When you laugh off your job, your audience, and other people's feelings, people tend to start treating you like a joke.
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EPT
