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On August 27 2012 05:31 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:30 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 05:20 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:14 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 05:08 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:05 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 05:02 Salazarz wrote:
You're either really naive or really stupid if you think any given players could decide to go against eSF / GomTV deciding something like that move. :\ Exactly, GSL players are puppy too in this case. Did you read any of the former reponses? A puppy of whom? Of themselves? First GSL players/=eSF players. Only 6 of the 8 OSL qualifiers are eSF members. eSF are a group of players/coaches. If ESF is really a players union, why isn't it helping their players to become real star in Korea? Instead, they are just trying to help GOM, a profit seeking company. Many of their members became stars through GOM, and if GOM falls they might have to join KeSPA in order to continue playing in korea. MC has won over 300'000 dollars price money mostly from the GSL. The GSL has made schedules that allows their players to attend foreign tournaments. They do not want OSL to fail, they just want both leagues relevant. They boycott next OSL, that's completely fine. But this OSL, lots of players already put huge efforts in, and most of them dreamed about this for years. That's not cool at all. That's a huge sacrifice from those players, it is possible that some of them may never come back to make another OSL RO16 again. That's clearly against players' interest at this very moment. And what they're willing to sacrifice exemplifies how much they do not want KeSPA to get away with shafting GOM. Please find every RO16 GSL players' comments or tweets to support this statement.
Right after you back up your original statement and find the tweets stating they were forced and don't find it fair.
Since we both have nothing to go by, we can continue assuming they're all in agreement and in unison as the ESF player's union representative Nestea has said.
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Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
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On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
You want to know something funny? Kespa players themselves wanted to play in GSL4. A roro interview said he didn't understand why kespa wouldn't let them play in GSL4. Kespa doesn't = the players while ESF = the players. Huge difference that you obviously don't know about.
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On August 27 2012 05:38 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:37 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 05:33 Thehealbus wrote:On August 27 2012 04:57 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 04:55 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 achan1058 wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 ElephantBaby wrote:
So this OSL is done, right? What about those GSL players who want to attend OSL, I bet there are some. Do they get the "freedom" to do so? The players have been consulted when they made this decision. I bet KeSPA also "consulted", whatever that means. KeSPA is the sponsors, eSF it the players. KeSPA can take licenses away. eSF has no power over it's members. Well since the organization is the players, the decisions they make would have power since their members are the ones deciding. The organization is the coaches and team leaders, the players do whatever they are told to, lol. What, do you seriously think a 15 year old kid like Leenock or Maru gets a vote of any relevance in matters such as this? As for MC and Oz following suit, of course they have to do it - basically the entire scene around them would despise them if they didn't. It's completely out of the question in a situation like this. Yes, and Choya isn't exactly that much older than Leenock or Maru. Yet he's a good enough negotiator to have fOu being bought by FXO. "Kids" these days are scary, aren't they.
Choya is 24. If 24 is 'not exactly much older' than 15, I don't even have anything else to say to you.
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On August 27 2012 05:37 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:35 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:23 stangstang wrote:
Exactly. If these teams are forced to join kespa, the chances you'll see mvp oversee's significantly decreases. And if you want to say otherwise, take this weekend MLG-kespa as an example. Again you're wrong. Stop posting random bullshit. There was no KeSPA players at MLG for valid reasons. Look it up. As for KeSPA teams not attending other foreign tournaments asides from MLG, it's simply because it's an expense without benefits. You're right. There was a valid reason. Same as they have a valid reason for not attending gsl 4. And they'll have valid reasons for not going to any international tournament in the future too. There is a valid reason. Read my post again.. In fact here, ill highlight it for you. it's an expense without benefits.
So that's your ultimate plan? Let's just let kespa keep all players in korea cause "its an expense without benefits". Yeah that's gonna sit well with the korean players and the international scene.
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On August 27 2012 05:42 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:38 achan1058 wrote:On August 27 2012 05:37 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 05:33 Thehealbus wrote:On August 27 2012 04:57 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 04:55 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 achan1058 wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 ElephantBaby wrote:
So this OSL is done, right? What about those GSL players who want to attend OSL, I bet there are some. Do they get the "freedom" to do so? The players have been consulted when they made this decision. I bet KeSPA also "consulted", whatever that means. KeSPA is the sponsors, eSF it the players. KeSPA can take licenses away. eSF has no power over it's members. Well since the organization is the players, the decisions they make would have power since their members are the ones deciding. The organization is the coaches and team leaders, the players do whatever they are told to, lol. What, do you seriously think a 15 year old kid like Leenock or Maru gets a vote of any relevance in matters such as this? As for MC and Oz following suit, of course they have to do it - basically the entire scene around them would despise them if they didn't. It's completely out of the question in a situation like this. Yes, and Choya isn't exactly that much older than Leenock or Maru. Yet he's a good enough negotiator to have fOu being bought by FXO. "Kids" these days are scary, aren't they. Choya is 24. If 24 is 'not exactly much older' than 15, I don't even have anything else to say to you.
Leenock is 17. Not only that, Choya arranged the FXO stuff like 1 year ago.
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On August 27 2012 05:42 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:37 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:35 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:23 stangstang wrote:
Exactly. If these teams are forced to join kespa, the chances you'll see mvp oversee's significantly decreases. And if you want to say otherwise, take this weekend MLG-kespa as an example. Again you're wrong. Stop posting random bullshit. There was no KeSPA players at MLG for valid reasons. Look it up. As for KeSPA teams not attending other foreign tournaments asides from MLG, it's simply because it's an expense without benefits. You're right. There was a valid reason. Same as they have a valid reason for not attending gsl 4. And they'll have valid reasons for not going to any international tournament in the future too. There is a valid reason. Read my post again.. In fact here, ill highlight it for you. it's an expense without benefits. So that's your ultimate plan? Let's just let kespa keep all players in korea cause "its an expense without benefits". Yeah that's gonna sit well with the korean players and the international scene.
It's a valid reason, If you were a team manager with a budget. Would you really send your players to compete abroad knowing there's nothing to gain from it..? If they get invited and everything is paid for them (MLG Deal). Then it's different. Wasting money from your budget with nothing to gain doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
User was warned for this post
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On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL.
eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say.
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On August 27 2012 05:43 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:42 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 05:38 achan1058 wrote:On August 27 2012 05:37 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 05:33 Thehealbus wrote:On August 27 2012 04:57 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 04:55 ElephantBaby wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 achan1058 wrote:On August 27 2012 04:54 ElephantBaby wrote:
So this OSL is done, right? What about those GSL players who want to attend OSL, I bet there are some. Do they get the "freedom" to do so? The players have been consulted when they made this decision. I bet KeSPA also "consulted", whatever that means. KeSPA is the sponsors, eSF it the players. KeSPA can take licenses away. eSF has no power over it's members. Well since the organization is the players, the decisions they make would have power since their members are the ones deciding. The organization is the coaches and team leaders, the players do whatever they are told to, lol. What, do you seriously think a 15 year old kid like Leenock or Maru gets a vote of any relevance in matters such as this? As for MC and Oz following suit, of course they have to do it - basically the entire scene around them would despise them if they didn't. It's completely out of the question in a situation like this. Yes, and Choya isn't exactly that much older than Leenock or Maru. Yet he's a good enough negotiator to have fOu being bought by FXO. "Kids" these days are scary, aren't they. Choya is 24. If 24 is 'not exactly much older' than 15, I don't even have anything else to say to you. Leenock is 17. Not only that, Choya arranged the FXO stuff like 1 year ago.
Yeah, keep digging.
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On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Yeah because MC (and i think Oz) both withdrew from OSL yet they're not on eSF teams... One side has a united front, at least so far. The other side has the management blocking their willing players from joining.
Big difference.
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On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say.
It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5.
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On August 27 2012 05:46 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:42 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:37 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:35 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:23 stangstang wrote:
Exactly. If these teams are forced to join kespa, the chances you'll see mvp oversee's significantly decreases. And if you want to say otherwise, take this weekend MLG-kespa as an example. Again you're wrong. Stop posting random bullshit. There was no KeSPA players at MLG for valid reasons. Look it up. As for KeSPA teams not attending other foreign tournaments asides from MLG, it's simply because it's an expense without benefits. You're right. There was a valid reason. Same as they have a valid reason for not attending gsl 4. And they'll have valid reasons for not going to any international tournament in the future too. There is a valid reason. Read my post again.. In fact here, ill highlight it for you. it's an expense without benefits. So that's your ultimate plan? Let's just let kespa keep all players in korea cause "its an expense without benefits". Yeah that's gonna sit well with the korean players and the international scene. It's a valid reason, If you were a team manager with a budget. Would you really send your players to compete abroad knowing there's nothing to gain from it..? If they get invited and everything is paid for them (MLG Deal). Then it's different. Wasting money from your budget with nothing to gain doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you disagree then you're a moron..
He speaks about the players and the international scene not the sponsors.
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On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say.
I'm pretty sure Coca, Byun, and Naniwa (to name a few) might disagree with you whether eSF / Gom have a 'sanction tool' or not. The thing about KeSPA 'refusing to play in GSL flat out' is bullshit. All they did was they won't play in season 4 - there is no real reason to read further into that.
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On August 27 2012 05:49 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Yeah because MC (and i think Oz) both withdrew from OSL yet they're not on eSF teams... One side has a united front, at least so far. The other side has the management blocking their willing players from joining. Big difference.
KeSPA seems pretty damn united to me. In fact, the way they don't want to send players from 1-2 teams to whatever events if all of them can't make it says nothing but 'we are united'. I don't know how else can you interpret that.
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On August 27 2012 05:50 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. I'm pretty sure Coca, Byun, and Naniwa (to name a few) might disagree with you whether eSF / Gom have a 'sanction tool' or not. The thing about KeSPA 'refusing to play in GSL flat out' is bullshit. All they did was they won't play in season 4 - there is no real reason to read further into that.
Coca, Byun have been sanctioned by their own teams, not GSL. Their offence was not even within the GSL it was within the ESV,
Naniwas offence was also not in the GSL, but I agree he was sanctioned by GOM. I really didn't like GOM's behaviour in this case (as they made up some very shady things during that, like it came out they could change their MLG deal at anytime, and announced he did not even qualify because they changed the rules without telling anybody. KeSPAs lame excuses remind me of GOM's language in this case). However it was done by GOM, not by the eSF:
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On August 27 2012 05:49 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5.
It also said here that Kespa would play in GSL 4. Look at how that turned out.
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On August 27 2012 05:49 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5.
Until gsl 5 comes around then they state "scheduling problems" again. Do you see the pattern?
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On August 27 2012 05:50 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:46 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:42 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:37 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:35 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:23 stangstang wrote:
Exactly. If these teams are forced to join kespa, the chances you'll see mvp oversee's significantly decreases. And if you want to say otherwise, take this weekend MLG-kespa as an example. Again you're wrong. Stop posting random bullshit. There was no KeSPA players at MLG for valid reasons. Look it up. As for KeSPA teams not attending other foreign tournaments asides from MLG, it's simply because it's an expense without benefits. You're right. There was a valid reason. Same as they have a valid reason for not attending gsl 4. And they'll have valid reasons for not going to any international tournament in the future too. There is a valid reason. Read my post again.. In fact here, ill highlight it for you. it's an expense without benefits. So that's your ultimate plan? Let's just let kespa keep all players in korea cause "its an expense without benefits". Yeah that's gonna sit well with the korean players and the international scene. It's a valid reason, If you were a team manager with a budget. Would you really send your players to compete abroad knowing there's nothing to gain from it..? If they get invited and everything is paid for them (MLG Deal). Then it's different. Wasting money from your budget with nothing to gain doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you disagree then you're a moron.. He speaks about the players and the international scene not the sponsors.
So am I, and They're all irrelevant.
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On August 27 2012 05:51 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:49 karpo wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Yeah because MC (and i think Oz) both withdrew from OSL yet they're not on eSF teams... One side has a united front, at least so far. The other side has the management blocking their willing players from joining. Big difference. KeSPA seems pretty damn united to me. In fact, the way they don't want to send players from 1-2 teams to whatever events if all of them can't make it says nothing but 'we are united'. I don't know how else can you interpret that.
You can interpret it as management making that decision and not the affected players, as seen from the interviews where kespa players were willing to join the GSL this season. It's not like Kespa will be able to insert all their players into the GSL anyways, there's no room for all of them.
As both Blizzard and eSF reacted to the news there must've been some kind of unofficial agreement to participate in eachothers leagues this season.
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On August 27 2012 05:49 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5.
We're talking about GSL 4. The reason why they don't just accept the GSL 5 offer is because would mean that OS2L will be the only league with both GSL and KeSPA players until December, instead of having both parties compete in both leagues as was originally intended by the original esports vision agreement.
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