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On August 27 2012 05:53 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:50 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:46 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:42 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:37 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:35 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:27 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 27 2012 05:23 stangstang wrote:
Exactly. If these teams are forced to join kespa, the chances you'll see mvp oversee's significantly decreases. And if you want to say otherwise, take this weekend MLG-kespa as an example. Again you're wrong. Stop posting random bullshit. There was no KeSPA players at MLG for valid reasons. Look it up. As for KeSPA teams not attending other foreign tournaments asides from MLG, it's simply because it's an expense without benefits. You're right. There was a valid reason. Same as they have a valid reason for not attending gsl 4. And they'll have valid reasons for not going to any international tournament in the future too. There is a valid reason. Read my post again.. In fact here, ill highlight it for you. it's an expense without benefits. So that's your ultimate plan? Let's just let kespa keep all players in korea cause "its an expense without benefits". Yeah that's gonna sit well with the korean players and the international scene. It's a valid reason, If you were a team manager with a budget. Would you really send your players to compete abroad knowing there's nothing to gain from it..? If they get invited and everything is paid for them (MLG Deal). Then it's different. Wasting money from your budget with nothing to gain doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you disagree then you're a moron.. He speaks about the players and the international scene not the sponsors. So am I, and They're all irrelevant.
Irrelevant to KeSPA, maybe, but certainly relevant to the eSF sponsors, and us. That alone is enough for us to dislike KeSPA, even without all that other stuff.
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Coca and Byun were sanctioned by their teams, yes - but you're saying eSF is the collection of teams, and it has no way to impose any sanctions on the players. Are you going to tell me that 2 + 2 = 1 next?
KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
You can interpret things however the hell you want, it doesn't make it any more likely or true though. GSL players were willing to join OSL just like KeSPA players were willing to join GSL - doesn't change the final decision made by whomever was it that made it.
Of course KeSPA won't be able to insert all of their players into GSL at once - but the point is they want to give all teams an equal chance at it, and they don't want to just put weaker / less known players there for the sake of appeasing Gom/eSF only. In fact, if this is about viewers following BW stars, having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
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On August 27 2012 05:53 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:49 oBlade wrote:On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5. Until gsl 5 comes around then they state "scheduling problems" again. Do you see the pattern?
You're assuming, they refused to take part in S3 because they weren't ready (Undeniable fact). S4 because of scheduling (You can argue otherwise). So eSF are simply being dicks by assuming KeSPA will not take part in S5.
The only reason GSL / eSF wants KeSPA players to participate now is quite simple. They want to prove that they're best currently in SC2. KeSPA players are still playing BW, by S5 of GSL they would have fully transitioned to sc2 and it will be much harder to prove that they're the best and so, if they fail to beat the KeSPA players then, I'm pretty sure they'll become irrelevant in Korea since KeSPA will have the best players.
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On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
No, that would actually be kinda bad for Kespa. Suppose you send some random practice B-team guy who no one's ever heard of, he makes a deep run, and then in the winner's interview it turns out that he gets paid nothing, isn't allowed to seek employment with other teams without being blacklisted, and is completely at the mercy of the bigger names on his team. That's a PR nightmare right there.
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On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
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KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
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We can't know for sure but doesn't the reactions from GOM, Blizzard, and the eSF seem over the top if there was no promise to participate at all? Why would Blizzard reps respond to this if there wasn't some kind of agreement? Why risk the shitstorm?
I already know what you're going to say and this whole discussion is turning into the standard left vs right political stuff where no one budges on their opinion nor do they convince anyone else.
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On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
Coca and Byun were sanctioned by their teams, yes - but you're saying eSF is the collection of teams, and it has no way to impose any sanctions on the players. Are you going to tell me that 2 + 2 = 1 next?
KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
You can interpret things however the hell you want, it doesn't make it any more likely or true though. GSL players were willing to join OSL just like KeSPA players were willing to join GSL - doesn't change the final decision made by whomever was it that made it.
Of course KeSPA won't be able to insert all of their players into GSL at once - but the point is they want to give all teams an equal chance at it, and they don't want to just put weaker / less known players there for the sake of appeasing Gom/eSF only. In fact, if this is about viewers following BW stars, having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
For me OSL2/KeSPA did okay thing when they splitted participants to OSL2 (half eSF and half KeSPA) but what did GOM do? Keep stacked GSL with eSF players and open places for KeSPA players with qualifiers to code A only? Does not seem fair to me at all.
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On August 27 2012 06:01 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
No, that would actually be kinda bad for Kespa. Suppose you send some random practice B-team guy who no one's ever heard of, he makes a deep run, and then in the winner's interview it turns out that he gets paid nothing, isn't allowed to seek employment with other teams without being blacklisted, and is completely at the mercy of the bigger names on his team. That's a PR nightmare right there.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrr the said random practice B-team guy would get promoted to the A-team and receive an increase in the salary? Nah, that'd make too much sense for someone as evil as KeSPA to do. What the fuck.
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On August 27 2012 05:58 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:53 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 05:49 oBlade wrote:On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. It says here KeSPA has no problem playing in GSL5. Until gsl 5 comes around then they state "scheduling problems" again. Do you see the pattern? You're assuming, they refused to take part in S3 because they weren't ready (Undeniable fact). S4 because of scheduling (You can argue otherwise). So eSF are simply being dicks by assuming KeSPA will not take part in S5. The only reason GSL / eSF wants KeSPA players to participate now is quite simple. They want to prove that they're best currently in SC2. KeSPA players are still playing BW, by S5 of GSL they would have fully transitioned to sc2 and it will be much harder to prove that they're the best and so, if they fail to beat the KeSPA players then, I'm pretty sure they'll become irrelevant in Korea since KeSPA will have the best players.
I'm not assuming anything. This was the gsl players decision. So that is their assumption based on kespa's past actions. I personally want to believe kespa will follow through with their "we will attend gsl s5". Obviously the gsl players think otherwise.
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On August 27 2012 06:01 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
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KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
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We can't know for sure but doesn't the reactions from GOM, Blizzard, and the eSF seem over the top if there was no promise to participate at all? Why would Blizzard reps respond to this if there wasn't some kind of agreement? Why risk the shitstorm? I already know what you're going to say and this whole discussion is turning into the standard left vs right political stuff where no one budges on their opinion nor do they convince anyone else.
Do you seriously believe that if there WAS in fact a promise to participate, that GomTV / eSF would not mention it? How would that make any sense at all? Seriously, at least try to use your brain before making things like this up...
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On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
Coca and Byun were sanctioned by their teams, yes - but you're saying eSF is the collection of teams, and it has no way to impose any sanctions on the players. Are you going to tell me that 2 + 2 = 1 next?
KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
You can interpret things however the hell you want, it doesn't make it any more likely or true though. GSL players were willing to join OSL just like KeSPA players were willing to join GSL - doesn't change the final decision made by whomever was it that made it.
Of course KeSPA won't be able to insert all of their players into GSL at once - but the point is they want to give all teams an equal chance at it, and they don't want to just put weaker / less known players there for the sake of appeasing Gom/eSF only. In fact, if this is about viewers following BW stars, having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
Yes the teams can sanction the players. The decision power inside a team is the team owner. As far as I understand it the eSF is the team members. Even if it was the teams. Even if the eSF was an Union of the team owners it wouldn't be the same, as a sanction by the eSF would mean that the decision is made by a majority decision isnide the eSF or the eSF leader.
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On August 27 2012 06:03 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
Coca and Byun were sanctioned by their teams, yes - but you're saying eSF is the collection of teams, and it has no way to impose any sanctions on the players. Are you going to tell me that 2 + 2 = 1 next?
KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
You can interpret things however the hell you want, it doesn't make it any more likely or true though. GSL players were willing to join OSL just like KeSPA players were willing to join GSL - doesn't change the final decision made by whomever was it that made it.
Of course KeSPA won't be able to insert all of their players into GSL at once - but the point is they want to give all teams an equal chance at it, and they don't want to just put weaker / less known players there for the sake of appeasing Gom/eSF only. In fact, if this is about viewers following BW stars, having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
For me OSL2/KeSPA did okay thing when they splitted participants to OSL2 (half eSF and half KeSPA) but what did GOM do? Keep stacked GSL with eSF players and open places for KeSPA players with qualifiers to code A only? Does not seem fair to me at all.
From what I heard they are giving 2 code S seeds, 2 up/down seeds, and 4 code A seeds. Who knows, perhaps KeSPA is not satisfied with the number of seeds given. I suppose that could be another reason.
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On August 27 2012 05:50 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:47 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 05:40 Salazarz wrote:
Btw, using the logic of eSF fanboys (sorry, I can't think of any other way to call it), eSF players are now being forced to go against their wishes with their boycott - after all, they have said multiple times in the past that playing in OSL and playing against KeSPA players in general is something they really look forward to doing, and want to do. But when eSF decides to boycott OSL despite players saying they want to play in it prior to these events, it's the players themselves deciding what's best for them in the long run. When the KeSPA players said they'd like to compete in GSL when possible and then KeSPA pulls out of GSL4, it's KeSPA forcing players to do shit they don't want to. Hmm!
Because Kespa represents the players employers and not the players. Kespa will ban the players if they join a tournament they do not agree. eSF has no sanction tool. And eSF have been fine in joining any other tournament than GSL. eSF is also fine with playing in OSL and Kespa playing in GSL. Something KeSPA cannot say. I'm pretty sure Coca, Byun, and Naniwa (to name a few) might disagree with you whether eSF / Gom have a 'sanction tool' or not. The thing about KeSPA 'refusing to play in GSL flat out' is bullshit. All they did was they won't play in season 4 - there is no real reason to read further into that.
First of all, ESF and GOM are separate entities. Second of all, the players you listed were either "sanctioned" by their team, or by GOM. ESF had nothing to do with either. Also, stop comparing ESF to KeSPA as they are different kinds of representative bodies. One represents players, the other represents sponsors. Pretty EZ to understand.
Apparently you need to read further into the consequences of 'not playing in season 4.'
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On August 27 2012 06:03 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:57 Salazarz wrote:
Coca and Byun were sanctioned by their teams, yes - but you're saying eSF is the collection of teams, and it has no way to impose any sanctions on the players. Are you going to tell me that 2 + 2 = 1 next?
KeSPA never said they were planning to join GSL season 4, stop making shit up.
You can interpret things however the hell you want, it doesn't make it any more likely or true though. GSL players were willing to join OSL just like KeSPA players were willing to join GSL - doesn't change the final decision made by whomever was it that made it.
Of course KeSPA won't be able to insert all of their players into GSL at once - but the point is they want to give all teams an equal chance at it, and they don't want to just put weaker / less known players there for the sake of appeasing Gom/eSF only. In fact, if this is about viewers following BW stars, having a few random B-teamers would be even more of a spit in the face to Gom than flat out not participating in GSL, don't you think?
For me OSL2/KeSPA did okay thing when they splitted participants to OSL2 (half eSF and half KeSPA) but what did GOM do? Keep stacked GSL with eSF players and open places for KeSPA players with qualifiers to code A only? Does not seem fair to me at all.
They offered 8 spots to KeSPA, Code A spots, UP and down spots and Code S spots.
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Speculations. All speculations. It's one thing to comment on the power play betweehn Kespa and ESF, but to even go as far as saying this is for the B-Team, or this is about international sponsorship, is, at this point, ALL SPECULATIONS.
Let us wait a few more hours. Things will then be clarified and we would know what the situation is.
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On August 27 2012 05:58 BgSBendeR wrote:
The only reason GSL / eSF wants KeSPA players to participate now is quite simple. They want to prove that they're best currently in SC2. KeSPA players are still playing BW, by S5 of GSL they would have fully transitioned to sc2 and it will be much harder to prove that they're the best and so, if they fail to beat the KeSPA players then, I'm pretty sure they'll become irrelevant in Korea since KeSPA will have the best players.
How is this in any way a reasonable argument when GSL players were allowed to participate in the OSL?
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No updates today on this whole mess right? Seems Kespa won't give in and OSL is fucked. Oh well 
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Very nice. i make a serious statement on this matter. Half an hour later, we're like 8 pages further and i almost only see people trolling or posting with apparent ignorance. Frustrating sometimes ):
Lol, including me.. ):
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On August 27 2012 06:08 ACrow wrote:No updates today on this whole mess right? Seems Kespa won't give in and OSL is fucked. Oh well
Well it's 6 AM Monday morning in Korea. They've got all of today to work something out if they want to save the OSL.
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On August 27 2012 06:08 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 05:58 BgSBendeR wrote:
The only reason GSL / eSF wants KeSPA players to participate now is quite simple. They want to prove that they're best currently in SC2. KeSPA players are still playing BW, by S5 of GSL they would have fully transitioned to sc2 and it will be much harder to prove that they're the best and so, if they fail to beat the KeSPA players then, I'm pretty sure they'll become irrelevant in Korea since KeSPA will have the best players. How is this in any way a reasonable argument when GSL players were allowed to participate in the OSL?
Half KeSPA, half eSF/GSL players.. KeSPA players have a much higher chance at actually winning the OSL compared to the GSL where its like 10:2 eSF/GSL : KeSPA ratio..
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I don't care if gom die, KESPA have really good tournaments and the best players, gom have an osl sustitute tournament and a 120p stream
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
