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On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
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On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well  I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
Let's be honest, if Idra is going to be in the foreigner team the whole showmatch would lose its credibility. Nobody would take it serious then.
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On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
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On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
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On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
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On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
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On August 13 2012 06:04 Champloo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose. Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
Oh god, I'm stupid. I even looked it up and failed to see the relevant things. -.-
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On August 13 2012 06:04 Champloo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose. Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
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On August 13 2012 06:08 Thurken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:04 Champloo wrote:On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose. Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer. When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
Because he's really, really good.
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On August 13 2012 06:11 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:08 Thurken wrote:On August 13 2012 06:04 Champloo wrote:On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose. Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer. When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...) Because he's really, really good.
Can you link me a vod of a particularly impressive performance by him? I was never amazed by his playstyle, but I didn't see much of him...
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On August 13 2012 05:52 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best. I think if you could find a way to distill the Idra that shows up on his best days, bottle it, and inject him with it every time he plays, then he would 100% be a candidate for this tournament. It's weird. Sometimes he plays SO WELL but other times he just sort of rolls over and dies. And yeah, ZvP. I'm sure he'll come back eventually though. He works hard and is talented.
About Idra, I'm pretty sure he has a bit recovered but has major troubles with his infestors control.
I think the problem is that he puts them in the same control group as his whole army + in a second so he makes them attack then has to pull them back every time.
Also he's to greedy and overestimates his game knowledge imo so I wouldn't even say he's better than Scarlett ( speaking about hidden skill )
About Major I have to admit he's the only koreanslayer in TSL 4, and could be the next big thing ;
but even if I dont really believe in Mana anymore ( great but not amazing ) I don't have the same perception of Nerchio, for me his blind counter are proofs of his game knowledge and aren't always gambling, and his "I-don't-do-like-stephano" style is for me his weakness but manages to work thanks to his amazing mechanics ( earned on european ladder and the cheese feasts that are the online tournaments )
So for me Nerchio is better, Major beat Hyun, it could mean that he is at that high level of play,but Nerchio beating many more almost as good / as good / better korean players. But that's only my opinion, and not a fact because I didn't watched every one of their respective games.
I also think Naniwa is a few steps above both of them, with great well-prepared builds and neat execution, and Stephano...
For me Stephano was our last hope, he was meant to bring balance to the force, lead the foreigners to equality with koreans, lead the resistance in the war against machines, avoid judgment day, remove Marion cotillard from TDKR, become the first foreigner GSL code S winner but he won't come to IPL 5 and won't attend this gsl...
Sad panda
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On August 13 2012 06:15 Thurken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:11 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 06:08 Thurken wrote:On August 13 2012 06:04 Champloo wrote:On August 13 2012 06:02 StarVe wrote:On August 13 2012 06:00 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 05:58 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote:
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there. Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted). The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one. Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose. Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer. When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...) Because he's really, really good. Can you link me a vod of a particularly impressive performance by him? I was never amazed by his playstyle, but I didn't see much of him...
Just watch his stream. He's also one of the very few foreigners to manage to get GM on the Korean server.
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On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I agree with your list - maybe sub in Ret for Major if Major doesn't make ro8 in TSL, but why the fuck is idra notable
Koreans:
1. TaeJa
2. Seed
3. MC
4. Squirtle
5. MVP
GSL winners/runners up and the hottest player in the scene
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It's just one GSL guys. Deal with it.
It would be super awesome if a person managed to win both IPL5 and GSL on the same weekend. Something that MVP couldn't do with Blizzcon and GSL.
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On August 13 2012 06:18 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I agree with your list - maybe sub in Ret for Major if Major doesn't make ro8 in TSL, but why the fuck is idra notable Koreans: 1. TaeJa 2. Seed 3. MC 4. Squirtle 5. MVP GSL winners/runners up and the hottest player in the scene
3 protoss and 2 Terran? not going to happen Its more than likely they balance the races. They may even do it off GSL rank. Why would you put the two runner ups in over the first season champion too?
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For the koreans I'd put something like
1. TaeJa
2. MVP
3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player
4. MC
5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset)
2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners)
3. Stephano
4. Thorzain
5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On August 13 2012 06:03 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best. I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now. You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
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On August 13 2012 06:38 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:03 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best. I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now. You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners. Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
38% this year.
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I say we don't put Taeja up as a Korean... I've never seen a team (IM) have so much troubles beating one guy...foreigners wouldn't stand a chance LOL.
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On August 13 2012 06:38 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:03 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:49 iNcontroL wrote:On August 13 2012 05:45 gedatsu wrote:On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra. Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now. Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best. I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now. You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners. Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
His best result in ZvT is losing to TaeJa 1-3 and beating MKP on cross server play. His victories besides that are against Cloud and STX (who?). His losses are to:
Thorzain
Dream
Select
STX (who?)
Not that impressive.
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EPT
