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On August 13 2012 04:10 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:00 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote:
[quote]
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
No, but how do you measure skill than? Most obvious thing would be results, but than major surely would´nt be that high rated.
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On August 13 2012 04:18 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:10 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:00 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:
[quote]
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread. skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL.
And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
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Mechanics are more a skale of potential, than actual skill IMHO. Take for example GoOdy. His mechanics are, as we all know, not that great, but he still has wins over MMA, Stephano, Nestea as well as about 60 cup-wins under his belt and is one out of two foreigners, who were able to qualify for the next MLG. Merz in comparism has about 4-5 times the apm of GoOdy, does less often get supply-blocked and so on. Would you call Merz better than GoOdy? I surely would not.
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Hopefully the broadcast will be good!!
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On August 13 2012 04:30 Xoronius wrote:
Mechanics are more a skale of potential, than actual skill IMHO. Take for example GoOdy. His mechanics are, as we all know, not that great, but he still has wins over MMA, Stephano, Nestea as well as about 60 cup-wins under his belt and is one out of two foreigners, who were able to qualify for the next MLG. Merz in comparism has about 4-5 times the apm of GoOdy, does less often get supply-blocked and so on. Would you call Merz better than GoOdy? I surely would not.
I would say both of them are horrible (compared to other pro gamers) for different reasons. Their faults are different, but they're both so huge that they cancel each other out.
A skilled player is really easy to point out. The best types of players are those who excel at everything. You can compensate for a bad skillset in one area with a superb skillset in another, but that still won't make you the best of all time. So yeah, that's why I think Major is a better all-around player. He's stabler, he has creativity, he has good mechanics, he played in Korea, and he doesn't usually rely on gimmicks to win. I've seen him win standard games against really good Koreans on a fairly regular basis. To me, that screams "skilled player" more than anything else. Mana and Nerchio are also good players, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they're at that level of stability yet. They still have an unrefined style that has cost them games from very simple things from time to time.
I also think that both of them play a very "weird" style which is responsible for a lot of victories against confused opponents.
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On August 13 2012 04:22 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:18 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 13 2012 04:10 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:00 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:
[quote]
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread. skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion. Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL. And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago.
Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still.
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great.. .can't wait to see what IPL video guy comes up with for GSL...
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On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote:On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote:
Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
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On August 13 2012 04:36 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:22 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:18 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 13 2012 04:10 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:00 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread. skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion. Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL. And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL. yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago. Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still.
Of course, results matter. But I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. I look at players and look for guys who have what it takes to get to the very top. That's why I thought Taeja was going to be huge even before he won ESV. It's why I still think Creator is going to start winning things sooner or later. It's why I feel that Byun's run at the GSL wasn't just a one-time thing. With Mana and Nerchio...I don't know. I look at their play and I see a very ladder-influenced style. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they win spectacularly easily, but other times they get utterly crushed.
I've always favoured players who win on the strength of sheer mechanics and solid play. To me, Major is the foreigner (aside from Stephano and non-PvZ Naniwa) that has that. I think Mana is close to obtaining this level of stylistic reliability. Nerchio, though, I honestly feel relies too much on blind countering his opponent (which won him games against MC) to be reliable in a long macro game.
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On August 13 2012 04:41 Zeon0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote:On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote:
Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
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On August 13 2012 04:43 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:41 Zeon0 wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote:
[quote]
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing? I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
I'm a Canadian, and I do actually cheer for foreign players. Koreans too. Look at me and how my opinion is so valid! ^^ lol
Teasing teasing, I saw you responded to "let me guess, u are american" which is kind of a funny generalization.
Anywho I can't wait for IPL5, I might even attend.
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The moment I heard this announcement I immediately thought that this was a strange move by GOMtv. I mean they have a solid format that has proven to be most competitive and high level SC2 tournament out there. I don't see the potential benefit to GOM in this partnership other than the 2 leagues working together to produce an event. If I were them I would not have made this move.
Other than that, the event should be entertaining. Congrats to IPL for getting this deal to go.
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On August 13 2012 04:43 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:41 Zeon0 wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote:
[quote]
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing? I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
so it is a Korean thing, cause he lives in Korea, case solved
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Is this a suicide by Gom to make room for the sc2 OSL? :S
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On August 13 2012 05:00 Zeon0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:43 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:41 Zeon0 wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:09 Xoronius wrote:On August 13 2012 02:54 Whitewing wrote:
[quote]
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good. Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well. Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio. Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing? I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only. so it is a Korean thing, cause he lives in Korea, case solved
Huh? Not really. There are lots of foreigners who have lived in Korea and not become that much better. However, I'd say all the best best foreigners have spent some time over there. I believe it was Naniwa who said that you need to play there if you want to be at the top.
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Ok so WC comes back but is in a boring format that says nothing and ro8 forward will lose it's value, doesn't sound like a good deal, especially since I guess the subs for the two will be the same :/
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This is just an all around bad idea.
Especially if we have players advancing who are also playing IPL.
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as of now that would be: naniwa, sase, thorzain, stephano, ret vs taeja, seed, mc, byun, drg
remember: they will balance out races slightly, if you have 2 players of prolly the same skill they will chose whatever race they need more; its a showmatch afterall and nobody wants to watch 3 pvp's in a row
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Team Korea: TaeJa.
He can control all 5 bases.
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On August 13 2012 04:43 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 13 2012 04:22 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:18 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 13 2012 04:10 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 04:00 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:46 RaelSan wrote:On August 13 2012 03:20 Shiori wrote:On August 13 2012 03:16 Xoronius wrote:
[quote]
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH? It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran... Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans. Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact. No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc). Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread. skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion. Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL. And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL. yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago. Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still. Of course, results matter. But I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. I look at players and look for guys who have what it takes to get to the very top. That's why I thought Taeja was going to be huge even before he won ESV. It's why I still think Creator is going to start winning things sooner or later. It's why I feel that Byun's run at the GSL wasn't just a one-time thing. With Mana and Nerchio...I don't know. I look at their play and I see a very ladder-influenced style. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they win spectacularly easily, but other times they get utterly crushed. I've always favoured players who win on the strength of sheer mechanics and solid play. To me, Major is the foreigner (aside from Stephano and non-PvZ Naniwa) that has that. I think Mana is close to obtaining this level of stylistic reliability. Nerchio, though, I honestly feel relies too much on blind countering his opponent (which won him games against MC) to be reliable in a long macro game.
OK, I think I got your argument and I understand your standpoint. I just rate mechanical play not that high, what makes me rate players like major or ret not that high (might have also smth. to do with infestor headbutts in Rets case). I just don´t see Major outsmart guys, who are mechanically on or above his level, which is smth. I see in Nerchio, MaNa, Hasu or GoOdy. I think Major can mechanically brute force his way through players who can´t match him in this regard (Which includes most foreigners), but if someone on his level plays a style, he might not know, or a style, which is prepared to match him, his chances decrease immensly. And in a korea vs. world world-showmatch I doubt, that he would get opponents, who are mechanically worse then him.
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EPT
