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CoCa is #1 in the GSTL - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
July 28 2012 23:59 GMT
#21
On July 29 2012 08:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I say that 7-1 > 11-4, Sniper should be #1.


Not , imo Symbol 10:2 > 11:4 in CLEAR WAY , and 10:2 > 7:1 btw
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Fleuria
Profile Joined April 2011
England466 Posts
July 29 2012 00:01 GMT
#22
rofl who cares about that, all that matters is who won the gstl title
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
July 29 2012 00:01 GMT
#23
golden card?
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 29 2012 00:03 GMT
#24
i had always thought that golden card actually went to the most valuable player of the winning team, btw
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 29 2012 00:08 GMT
#25
On July 29 2012 09:03 opterown wrote:
i had always thought that golden card actually went to the most valuable player of the winning team, btw

Like keen when MVP won the championship.
Glorious SEA doto
Chytilova
Profile Joined December 2011
United States790 Posts
July 29 2012 00:18 GMT
#26
On July 29 2012 08:45 Apolo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 08:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I say that 7-1 > 11-4, Sniper should be #1.


By that logic someone 3-0 > 7-1 should be #1


In a perfect system beforehand you say the minimum amount of games required to qualify and then go by best record. These are their rules though so Coca won.
Fawkes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1935 Posts
July 29 2012 00:20 GMT
#27
On July 29 2012 08:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I say that 7-1 > 11-4, Sniper should be #1.


Regardless of what you say, it says most wins, not the most appealing record. Unless you think 7 > 11. Then okay.
Taeyeon ~ Jennie ~ Seulgi ~ Irene @Fawkes711
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
July 29 2012 00:21 GMT
#28
surprising to see moon up there
savior did nothing wrong
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 00:31:07
July 29 2012 00:27 GMT
#29
What a misusage of statistics.

10-2 should be seen as +8 wins and 11-4 as +7. Total amount of wins is a useless statistic in a league where not everyone plays the same amount.

(For whoever said 7-1 should be better than 11-4 I don't think you can defend that with logic and uphold a normal ranking. By most reasoning you would end up with 2-0 beating both those scores.)
Administrator
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 29 2012 00:30 GMT
#30
personally i think 7-1 'looks' 'more impressive' than 11-4
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
July 29 2012 00:32 GMT
#31
Congrats, Coca, you deserve the spotlight. It gets tougher the more games you play for your team. SlayerS really should pay some special reward to Coca for this, who recently mentioned he has financial difficulties.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
July 29 2012 00:35 GMT
#32
On July 29 2012 08:36 opterown wrote:
why didn't mkp get an article like this last season? 10-1 haha



Yeah! MKP got 10-1 record! He should have also had an article like this. But, Coca deserves this. I hope he manage to be in top form again
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
July 29 2012 00:38 GMT
#33
Symbol obviously has the best stats.. :D But I love CoCa.. He is the gosu ZerG ^_^

GL thx for this
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Dakure
Profile Joined February 2011
United States513 Posts
July 29 2012 00:40 GMT
#34
On July 29 2012 08:45 Apolo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 08:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I say that 7-1 > 11-4, Sniper should be #1.


By that logic someone 3-0 > 7-1 should be #1

You can rank them as by the spread (wins - losses). 11-4 = 7 but 10-2 = 8. So Symbol has the better spread. But CoCa has more wins. It's just a question of which ranking to use. Personally, I too ranking by spread because under the current system, 11-10 is better than 10-0, I believe. In my opinion, that should not be the case.
sertman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States540 Posts
July 29 2012 00:44 GMT
#35
On July 29 2012 09:40 Dakure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 08:45 Apolo wrote:
On July 29 2012 08:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I say that 7-1 > 11-4, Sniper should be #1.


By that logic someone 3-0 > 7-1 should be #1

You can rank them as by the spread (wins - losses). 11-4 = 7 but 10-2 = 8. So Symbol has the better spread. But CoCa has more wins. It's just a question of which ranking to use. Personally, I too ranking by spread because under the current system, 11-10 is better than 10-0, I believe. In my opinion, that should not be the case.


The "lose and you're out" format guarantees there won't be players at the top end of the win spectrum with equal amounts of losses. I don't have a problem with the player who gets the most wins for his team receiving the top prize.
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
July 29 2012 00:49 GMT
#36
On July 29 2012 09:35 Ace1123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 08:36 opterown wrote:
why didn't mkp get an article like this last season? 10-1 haha



Yeah! MKP got 10-1 record! He should have also had an article like this. But, Coca deserves this. I hope he manage to be in top form again

I'm fairly certain MKP DID have an article like this. It's just that back then, no one was surfing through the TIG forums to find it
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
July 29 2012 00:52 GMT
#37
On July 29 2012 09:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
What a misusage of statistics.

10-2 should be seen as +8 wins and 11-4 as +7. Total amount of wins is a useless statistic in a league where not everyone plays the same amount.

(For whoever said 7-1 should be better than 11-4 I don't think you can defend that with logic and uphold a normal ranking. By most reasoning you would end up with 2-0 beating both those scores.)


Agreed.

Really, it's pretty clear Symbol had the best season based on the statistics. I would place CoCa second because with the same +/-, you want the player who has played more games (even though it means lower win %). Yes that means the "Extra" games are played at 50/50 but it's tougher to do well with a higher number of games played.
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
July 29 2012 00:58 GMT
#38
On July 29 2012 09:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
What a misusage of statistics.

10-2 should be seen as +8 wins and 11-4 as +7. Total amount of wins is a useless statistic in a league where not everyone plays the same amount.

(For whoever said 7-1 should be better than 11-4 I don't think you can defend that with logic and uphold a normal ranking. By most reasoning you would end up with 2-0 beating both those scores.)

I'd disagree. It's not a misusage of statistics, it's just statistics used for a different purpose than you would have used it for. They wanted to know who won the most games, which is clearly CoCa. The questions wasn't who was the MVP or who had the best record, in which case net wins or even win percentage might be a more relevant. The fact of the matter is that CoCa contributed the most wins to his team of any player, and that's why he gets the interview. You get the same award in all sports: Most goals scored, most medals won, etc. None of these awards take the number of games played into consideration, they simply look at who did the most.

So yeah, I think this is perfectly valid. Whether it says anything about who was the best player of the season is a different question.
Moderator
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 00:59:59
July 29 2012 00:59 GMT
#39
On July 29 2012 09:58 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 09:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
What a misusage of statistics.

10-2 should be seen as +8 wins and 11-4 as +7. Total amount of wins is a useless statistic in a league where not everyone plays the same amount.

(For whoever said 7-1 should be better than 11-4 I don't think you can defend that with logic and uphold a normal ranking. By most reasoning you would end up with 2-0 beating both those scores.)

I'd disagree. It's not a misusage of statistics, it's just statistics used for a different purpose than you would have used it for. They wanted to know who won the most games, which is clearly CoCa. The questions wasn't who was the MVP or who had the best record, in which case net wins or even win percentage might be a more relevant. The fact of the matter is that CoCa contributed the most wins to his team of any player, and that's why he gets the interview. You get the same award in all sports: Most goals scored, most medals won, etc. None of these awards take the number of games played into consideration, they simply look at who did the most.

So yeah, I think this is perfectly valid. Whether it says anything about who was the best player of the season is a different question.


If you put it that way then the title is pretty misleading - I wouldn't say CoCa is #1 in the GSTL at all...

Likewise, in the NBA, mid-season, people typically rank teams based on either W/L % or highest differential, not based on who has the most wins at any one point in time.
JKM
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark419 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 01:03:53
July 29 2012 01:03 GMT
#40
Cool, didnt know they had such an award, but it is quite, if not to say utterly, meaningless with so few games during the season. I think you need groupstages similar to those of SPL for such awards to have true meaning, since the difference in games played is much less dependent on overall team success. Considering the system GSL has chosen I think it is fair to assume that Life could have scored 3 wins given 4 more CWs (Zenex had 3 CWs compared to 7 of SlayerS).

1. Coca had a total of 7 CWs to score 11 wins.
2. Symbol had a total of 5 CWs to score 10 wins.
3. Life had a total of 3 CWs to score 9 wins.
4. Gumiho had a total of 5 CWs to score 9 wins.
5. Puzzle had a total of 7 CWs to score 9 wins.

The large difference in amounts of played CWs makes it really hard to make a fair choice. Symbol made the greatest difference with +8. Sniper scored the best win/loss ratio (excluding players with less than 5 wins) of 87.5%. Life scored the most wins/CW averaging a stunning 3 wins per CW.

Which of these is most legitimate is up to GSL, personally I'd prefer a win/loss difference giving the award to Symbol or perhaps a weighed decision by a panel of people (eg. all GSL-team coaches and similar).
1338, one upping 1337
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