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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 12:37 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common. .................. Isn't this much more serious than this Spades scandal? o_O
Only because Leenock is much more relevant lol. But I agree.
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ROFL, knows the bunker is to the right? WTF
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What's your defense for sending an SCV and not look at it when scouting?
How did you know he expanded? You don't lead with your tanks not knowing he doesn't have any of his own. You can't defend this. This isn't even Diamond level of play. This is blatant map-hacking.
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On June 05 2012 12:34 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:32 efren wrote:On June 05 2012 12:30 whiterabbit wrote:
Why are we still focused on Spades? We have post saying Koreans we all love do cheat even at big LANs like MLG... I am... well... fuck everything if Koreans have to stream cheat and have other player giving them tips in middle of game at LANs... how does that even get allowed?! FUCK ME! exactly this really puts all lan competitions results into question. why aren't ppl more focused on this In the fashion of the Mod Note on top, you need overwhelming evidence to damn someone. No player or organization is going to question the legitimacy of the players who bring in viewers and numbers for the industry if they aren't absolutely certain, other wise those ever so important korean players will be offended and not participate outside Korea, and those players and organizations will be ridiculed.
that wouldn't happen because the western scene is basically keeping sc2 alive. In korean there is only the gsl
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Before, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, now it's obvious that he was hacking. The scan thing coupled with the fact that his camera stays out of the fog of war at all times. That's hacking.
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On June 05 2012 12:40 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
What's your defense for sending an SCV and not look at it when scouting?
How did you know he expanded? You don't lead with your tanks not knowing he doesn't have any of his own. You can't defend this. This isn't even Diamond level of play. This is blatant map-hacking.
Isn't lgn notorious for map hacking?
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On June 05 2012 12:39 shivver wrote:
this is so much fuking bs.. especially catz
I do this all the damn time, it's because I suck and I can't keep up with simple stuff. I'll all of a sudden look at my minimap and "oh crap my scv is leaving his main"
THATS BECAUSE YOURE BAD!!!! not in a showmatch against lucifron!!!!!!!
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let's send those replays to MVP or MKP , they will tell us if its MH or not, they are the one who knows the most of terran plays or reactions
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On June 05 2012 12:39 shivver wrote:
this is so much fuking bs.. especially catz
"well he sends an scv scout and he never looks at it, it goes in his base and he never checks the scv"
I do this all the damn time, it's because I suck and I can't keep up with simple stuff. I'll all of a sudden look at my minimap and "oh crap my scv is leaving his main"
Anyway, that scv saw everything it needed ( the gas ). Catz is on a witch hunt
Illusion, I never thought I would see this out of you
So your defense for Spades not hacking in this situation is because, as a GM player, he has the multitasking of a silver player?
A high level player will always just micro their scout just to make sure nothing kills it and to see any hidden buildings.
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On June 05 2012 12:38 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:36 Sideburn wrote:
Not a biased stream.
"If you miss this, you are fucking retarded." -Catz
Arbiters of justice right here. lol, it's pretty blatant if you're actually competent at the game -_-
YES! This fucking this, THIS X10000000000.
Yeah minimap does exist. But imagine NEVER going through a fog of war in a game and 100% using the Minimap for EVERY little detail click, etc etc...
If you play the game you understand that this is Hacks.
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On June 05 2012 12:38 shabinka wrote:
According to that last statement.... How far has CatZ or Illu gotten in a lan? Not very far... must mean they hack.
illusion at last IPL. i don't think i need to say anymore
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On June 05 2012 12:40 efren wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:34 Gamegene wrote:On June 05 2012 12:32 efren wrote:On June 05 2012 12:30 whiterabbit wrote:
Why are we still focused on Spades? We have post saying Koreans we all love do cheat even at big LANs like MLG... I am... well... fuck everything if Koreans have to stream cheat and have other player giving them tips in middle of game at LANs... how does that even get allowed?! FUCK ME! exactly this really puts all lan competitions results into question. why aren't ppl more focused on this In the fashion of the Mod Note on top, you need overwhelming evidence to damn someone. No player or organization is going to question the legitimacy of the players who bring in viewers and numbers for the industry if they aren't absolutely certain, other wise those ever so important korean players will be offended and not participate outside Korea, and those players and organizations will be ridiculed. that wouldn't happen because the western scene is basically keeping sc2 alive. In korean there is only the gsl
LOL. As a Korean American let me tell you something right now: Koreans are EASILY offended. ESPECIALLY by Westerners.
Korean Pride and Stubbornness son.
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On June 05 2012 12:25 n.DieJokes wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like a crock of bullshit. If you go looking for maphacking obviously you'll find it, especially with the way the fp camera is setup. All the "evidence" of him hacking is inconclusive and fails to explain:
1) Why would he hack here, for nothing? When he is a pro player with everything on the line, why would he risk that with for no reward?
2) If he was map hacking, how the fuck does he lose? It doesn't make any sense, he should have easily been able to win but he doesn't. He'd have to be the worse map hacker in the history of the game; he has experience at it he should at least be decent. You people are spending too much time focusing on things he accidently gets right and not enough time on all the shit he misses that actually costs him the match.
3) Who is the op? Why should I lend any credence whatsoever to the accusations of a 1 post random? He hasn't posted since this thread went up, whats he doing?
Exactly right, one of the few clearly thought out points in the thread.
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On June 05 2012 12:40 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:37 babylon wrote:On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common. .................. Isn't this much more serious than this Spades scandal? o_O Only because Leenock is much more relevant lol. But I agree.
How does he know he was giving hints in korean? Does this dude even speak korean?
This pitch-fork shit is already enough don't get koreans involved because some guy said he saw leenock talking to some dude in korean "giving him hints" lol
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Now for people believe that spades isnt cheating, watch the same replays from lucifrons point of view and find "fishy" spots and it wont even be 1/5 of the amount spades has in 1 game
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It's pretty impossible to keep your camera out of the fog of war at all times.
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On June 05 2012 12:41 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:40 DamageControL wrote:On June 05 2012 12:37 babylon wrote:On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common. .................. Isn't this much more serious than this Spades scandal? o_O Only because Leenock is much more relevant lol. But I agree. How does he know he was giving hints in korean? Does this dude even speak korean?
The fuck? If you're talking to someone in a game you're 99% of the time cheating unless his mom just died.
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On June 05 2012 12:39 shivver wrote:
this is so much fuking bs.. especially catz
"well he sends an scv scout and he never looks at it, it goes in his base and he never checks the scv"
I do this all the damn time, it's because I suck and I can't keep up with simple stuff. I'll all of a sudden look at my minimap and "oh crap my scv is leaving his main"
Anyway, that scv saw everything it needed ( the gas ). Catz is on a witch hunt
Illusion, I never thought I would see this out of you
Are you serious? Even when you let your scout leave their base without looking, you never look afterwards to see what you saw? Really?
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Obvious hacker is obvious
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 12:39 shivver wrote:
this is so much fuking bs.. especially catz
"well he sends an scv scout and he never looks at it, it goes in his base and he never checks the scv"
I do this all the damn time, it's because I suck and I can't keep up with simple stuff. I'll all of a sudden look at my minimap and "oh crap my scv is leaving his main"
Anyway, that scv saw everything it needed ( the gas ). Catz is on a witch hunt
Illusion, I never thought I would see this out of you
Oh, so a guy that was once top 1 GM on NA is at the same level as you. Good to know that he sucks.
They've literally said, people in silver league won't understand, but if you're GM you will. Now, I'm not GM, but I do know they have much faster APM than either of us usually, so they should be able to keep up with the "simple stuff". Why would a pro not be able to keep up with the simple stuff...
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EPT
