EDIT: Just to Clarify, Do you want it *In Season 1* Not if you want it at all. Do you feel its important to have on day 1?
Hello,
I was looking at the dev notes on what they plan to have come out with HoTS, and I was wondering what people thought about the unranked play?
In general, I think it is a nice thing, and if it was available right now in WoL it would help people practice builds, practice off-racing, play drunk etc.. etc...
But in the context of HotS, is it a good idea if unranked play comes out immediately upon the release of the game?
I see 3 main things:
1) Closed Beta - Some people may be in a Beta and some will not. This is going to make anyone who didn't get to play it a lot more hesistant to jump into the ladder, since some people will be experienced and others will not.
2) Rank Ego - Some people are just married to their own rank, They're a Diamond or a Masters or a whatever and that is what they are, and they won't want to take the risk of an ego-blow in the first season when they don't know if they will be the same rank and may hold off on laddering until they're sure.
3) Overall Anxiety - We know a lot of people are anxious about laddering, Husky's got a series about it, people ask progamers about it all the time, theres threads about it etc. I think we should encourage people to atleast be on the ladder initially and later if they opt out or use unranked for other things, fine...but by very much encouraging people to Ladder in atleast Season 1, they might bite the bullet and do it.
Another different consideration is that I don't want any of the other features delayed. Blizzard has said that they intend to release these 'At or Around Launch' meaning they likely won't finish them all on time.
I think it would be nice to kind of let them know that maybe if this one is delayed a couple months, its not the end of the world...so if you have to choose between putting developpers on the Shared Replay project vs the Unranked project....pick the former.
Just my thoughts though, is anyone strongly for this being out immediately? I'm concerned overall that it could encourage too much procrastination and disengagement from some people who would otherwise play ranked matches.
If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
On May 11 2012 08:35 HeroMystic wrote: If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
That's the part I'm thinking of...any reason you wouldn't just do that on the Ladder in season 1? You have no rank to Ruin, why not just all learn on the Ladder itself? If you encourage people to duck it, they may be discouraged to ever join it.
I know this is a feature people are waiting for but I wouldn't have the game postpone for a few features. It could always be added a little bit later .
What's the downside in having unranked matchmaking? If it results in fewer people on ladder but more people overall, that's certainly a good thing from Blizzard's point of view.
Unranked matchmaking is the best thing to come out of those dev notes imo (that is of course if they add settings that allow you to pick matchup and maps) cause then you can really get those builds practiced and train on those Match ups you fear. I wish they could hotfix it in now cause I would almost never ladder anymore except to build mmr.
I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
Unranked match making is a good idea, since we can't make multiple accounts to learn new races. But my one concern is since "everyone" has laddering fears that people will not play ranked matches.
I guess my take on it is off, but largely people's reasoning so far is what I was concerned about...people wanting to play the ladder much less, wanting to delay joining it and that they're intimidated by the ladder.
I guess I just think they should be encouraged to try it before opting out, since we'll get a lot of brand new players in HotS.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
Yes. The people who are too terrified to play regular ladder should just quit playing altogether. Lets continue losing more SC2 players than we already have...
People that weren't going to ladder to begin with still won't. It's time to stop going out of the way to cator to casuals. They've already proven that they will not stick with the game. They can just turn on a stream and watch someone with the courage to click the orange button.
I really like it, just because it might actually allow me to play without feeling that uncomfortable anxiety, diminished though it is...its still too unpleasant for me to "play" this "game" and actually feel good about it. But I know that to advance eventually I'll have to play normal ladder games. I think it could help in general, because if people feel more confident in non-ladder games it could decrease the anxiety of having to play against normal platinums (err whichever league you're in). Of course, in theory the average skill level of each league would just increase proportionately to that, so it might not give that sense of comfort after all.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
Who cares? If the only reason to be against unranked ladder was to spite players who wanted to queue for 1v1 without anxiety then I simply see no reason to remove it. If we're talking about how it'll split the ladder and the lack of incentives for those players to go back into ranked...then...
On May 11 2012 08:58 MetalPanda wrote: Honestly, I'd like this because of Funday Monday
What fun is funday monday if you're actually gonna give a shit about your rating and preserve it?
Im not saying it should be in the game at all, people seem to be mentioning the use of unranked play In General, Im not suggesting they don't put it in at all... jsut that it may deter players who Would use the ladder from using it if it is in immediately. It make cause people to procastinate then be scared to jump in later, when if the option was not present in the beginning, they'd jump in.
I think its great. You can use the unranked ladder as a practice system and the normal ladder with a 'tournament/competetive feeling'. Gonna be good :D
On May 11 2012 08:57 imMUTAble787 wrote: People that weren't going to ladder to begin with still won't. It's time to stop going out of the way to cator to casuals. They've already proven that they will not stick with the game. They can just turn on a stream and watch someone with the courage to click the orange button.
There're a chunk of people like that, yes. But there're also a lot of people who don't want to ladder because of anxiety, race switch, build order trial, and there're people who just have casual impulse, people who hate to take the game seriously,..... It's not really a psychological thing or whatnot. It's a business decision. Blizzard wants to make 'unranked matchmaking' a selling point for HotS, if there're 10,15% of people buy that selling point, then it is worth putting that in.
I really dont see a problem with the unranked system, i have a feeling everyone who consistently ladders will continue to do so, and thos who dont might have a new reason to play some 1v1s
So whats the difference between clicking "search for unranked match" or "search for ranked match"? You get points for one and not the other? Its still the exact same game 1v1. I still cannot understand why people are scared of "the ladder".
ladder is practise anyways. it's not like you win anything cept the points when you win a game. You got thousands of games to play and a few in the beginning to learn the new units and strats are equal to if you would try new builds or strats in wol. just a stupid thing they're implementing and they should waste less time on that and spend more time on useful things that we actually need.
they should introduce unranked ladder with no visible wins and losses. They should also put wins and losses visible for laddering before they took losses away.
I'm just unsure how this will work, I mean it seems a lot of people will play a few games to get to their league, or maybe even none at all, then just sit in the unranked ladder. Who are my opponents then going to be in the ranked ladder? Probably people who invest more into the game/are better and thus I could see the MMRs splitting wildly after launch.
What Blizzard really needs to do is give people the OPTION of having their match history and win/loss displayed. Hell, maybe even rank if you don't want to see it. It is so simple that it is mind boggling, just give people the OPTION to turn off these things which bring about anxiety (oh, that loss streak a week ago sucked, I'm not playing now, etc.). I would say do away with the meaningless divisions while you're at it but I doubt that would go away.
Those who will keep playing on the ranked ladder are probably those with the most confidence ( or detachment ) but everyone else will play the unranked ladder. It's only after they feel an improvement they will try the ranked ladder.
Hence this ladder will be less populated than the unranked one, but filled with even more competitive people than ever before.
It will be a no mercy zone where everything is allowed to get the win, a place haunted by cold unbeatable progamers and neverending cheese, where fun have to be terminated if it get in the way of the precious ladder points.
More and more people won't be able to compete and soon, because of their ranked ladder anxiety, 90% of the players will play exclusively on the unranked ladder, running away from this "GrandMaster Laddder".
After countless posts on the Bnet forums, many guides for managing your ranked ladder anxiety by TL's own psychology specialists and the protestation of many progamers that "don't want to be put in the same place that those filthy casuals", Blizzard will finally decide to merge the 2 ladders at the release of Legacy of the Void and open the door to a new area of cohabitation.
On May 11 2012 08:35 HeroMystic wrote: If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
Boom, and theres your answer ladies and gents. /thread
On May 11 2012 08:35 HeroMystic wrote: If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
Boom, and theres your answer ladies and gents. /thread
That was the entire point...because of new units and builds...Everyone will choose not to ladder.
There was no Unranked in Wings of Liberty...people just started laddering and learned there. Why do you have to avoid ladder to learn?
anytime you remove options from a game that is never a good thing. If somebody wants to play unranked matchmaking. That is there damn right to do so. Kudos to blizzard for finally giving the options to do so.
If blizzard is reading this, i have some suggestions for you guys incase the ladder is split . I can forcast alot of people will use unranked, especially in lower leagues. So here are some things that can be done to fix all forseeable problems.
-When somebody is queing for an unranked game, If the opponent found has not qued for an unranked game, it means only the opponent can get points for the win. Me the player will get nothing for a win or a lost.
What does this solve? it wont split the community as everybody will still be searching from within the same pool of players to find games . The only difference is that one party has accepted to not gain or receive points ladder points and stay divisionless.
I suspect if blizzard does it like this, Ladder participation will actually be 40-50% higher in leagues below masters. The guys above diamond will still play ranked ladder the most with the very occasional unranked to do offraceing or warm up games before playing ranked.
At the end of the day, all blizzard should really give a shit about is if people are actually playing there game. A unranked mode was long overdue.
i don't think it's an important feature to have, just nice to have it. it could actually become harmful to the ladder experience if there's not enough player mass at a server.
On May 11 2012 11:09 johnny123 wrote: anytime you remove options from a game that is never a good thing. If somebody wants to play unranked matchmaking. That is there damn right to do so. Kudos to blizzard for finally giving the options to do so.
If blizzard is reading this, i have some suggestions for you guys incase the ladder is split . I can forcast alot of people will use unranked, especially in lower leagues. So here are some things that can be done to fix all forseeable problems.
-When somebody is queing for an unranked game, If the opponent found has not qued for an unranked game, it means only the opponent can get points for the win. Me the player will get nothing for a win or a lost.
What does this solve? it wont split the community as everybody will still be searching from within the same pool of players to find games . The only difference is that one party has accepted to not gain or receive points ladder points and stay divisionless.
I suspect if blizzard does it like this, Ladder participation will actually be 40-50% higher in leagues below masters. The guys above diamond will still play ranked ladder the most with the very occasional unranked to do offraceing or warm up games before playing ranked.
At the end of the day, all blizzard should really give a shit about is if people are actually playing there game. A unranked mode was long overdue.
No one would get points for it, its unranked. They wouldn't match Ladder people vs. non-ladder. If only diamond+ played Ladder, then the 'Low Diamonds' would be Bronze
I love the idea of unraked playing. For me leagues, and especially ranking takes the focus from having fun and improving, to focus on winning. Which is not what I want.
I do see a problem though: Wont this split the player pool in two? So it will take even longer to find a suitable opponent? (even worse for those at the top)
Really reaching new levels of trivial discussion in my opinion. Discussing whether a feature or detail of a game should be released later is just completely going against what we've rallied Blizzard against.
People acting like unranked ladder is gonna split the community are kidding themselves. The people that are gonna play unranked exlusively were probably the same people that only played custom games in WoL. There's always gonna be a smaller part of a community that wants to play competitive ladder as compared to the people that just want to play some stress free games without impact. Making it easier to do just that will probably relieve people of the stress of playing competitive ladder in the first place, possibly causing an increase in the people that play competitive ladder. I really wasn't expecting blizzard to even think about this change, but i think it's a really good one. Kudo's.
On May 11 2012 17:18 Fragile51 wrote: People acting like unranked ladder is gonna split the community are kidding themselves. The people that are gonna play unranked exlusively were probably the same people that only played custom games in WoL. There's always gonna be a smaller part of a community that wants to play competitive ladder as compared to the people that just want to play some stress free games without impact. Making it easier to do just that will probably relieve people of the stress of playing competitive ladder in the first place, possibly causing an increase in the people that play competitive ladder. I really wasn't expecting blizzard to even think about this change, but i think it's a really good one. Kudo's.
Im not sure about this... I play ranked ladder games. Granted Im not in the top of my league (dia), but I gonna switch to unraked when it comes. I want to focus on my skills, and not my ranking. And I know a friend who thinks the same way. Now wether we represent at large part of the community I dont know, but I definitly think its a possibility that player pool will be spilt in two.
I like the possibility of unranked matchmaking not necessarily for getting around ladder anxiety but especially for practice purposes. If unranked matchmaking would include filter features such as only playing specific maps and matchups, it would make for quite an efficient practice tool I think.
On May 11 2012 08:32 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: This is silly, why would you release a game without all the features that were supposed to be in it.
Oh...Wait...nevermind
It is amazing that, not only are people bringing this up this far after SC2 initial release, but that people were even stupid enough to think about it at the time.
maybe as long as they place, sure (maybe 5 or 10 games additional after placing? idk)
otherwise they might be playing unranked matches vs just... people of random skill levels
you could do that in customs, pretty sure the main reason for unranked matchmaking is for you to be matched against people of similar MMR without worrying about winning
OP: this is retarded, unless you assume that your rank carries over from WOL. My guess is that it won't. Thus, in order to have unranked matchmaking(based on play) its almost guarenteed that you will have to play a few games on ladder or they won't have any way of determining what skill level you are at, unless there is something I am not thinking of. But yea, I wouldn't worry about it, but probably you will have to play ladder unless unranked matchmaking has an mmr of its own.
Warm-ups, doing crazy stuff - there's ton of possibilities for the unranked ladder. I'd like to see it available right after HoTS release. It is better to have that kind of ladder than to deal with ladder anxiety or whatever the reason people find to avoid regular laddering.
I think the stress from ladder ranked matches makes it so its harder to loosen up while playing, and its funny because when you're not stressed or have ladder anxiety you can play better because your mind is relaxed. It could make players become better because they won't get demoralized from losses and have the weight of losing off their chest.
this is not going to hurt the matched ladder... at best people will play unranked for 10-15 games as an off race to get a few things down and then try there luck on ladder.. having at least had a chance to prep and get a feel for there offrace it should allow for people to be more diverse becuase they are not worried about risking a bunch of points losing 10 games in a row figuring out there off race.
I don't really care as I see the unranked ladder as worse practice then the main ladder anyway. All I care about is optimal practice. Maybe if I somehow get ladder anxiety back but then I'll probably still try ladder to see my skill level in HotS.
On May 11 2012 18:39 Bojas wrote: I don't really care as I see the unranked ladder as worse practice then the main ladder anyway. All I care about is optimal practice. Maybe if I somehow get ladder anxiety back but then I'll probably still try ladder to see my skill level in HotS.
The unranked ladder will put you against people of around the same still level. Using your ranked ladder as a reference. The only bad thing would be people are likely off racing and trying new risky builds.. so you won't see alot of standard play. This could be the bad part about "practicing" with unranked.
On May 11 2012 08:35 HeroMystic wrote: If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
That's the part I'm thinking of...any reason you wouldn't just do that on the Ladder in season 1? You have no rank to Ruin, why not just all learn on the Ladder itself? If you encourage people to duck it, they may be discouraged to ever join it.
Testing build orders is obviously not a once-off affair, every time you think of or find a new build order you will want to test it. The reason you don't want this to affect your MMR (whether it affects your specific rank is kind of irrelevant) is because then you will be versing weaker opponents who cannot properly test the limits of your build order since you can already beat them in other non-build order related ways (superior macro, better decision making etc.).
I am kinda biased about that. Sure it is a cool feature to offrace or warm up, but I am afraid it will hurt low leagues players. It might cause them to play only unranked games and make ladder queues too long. Will see.
This is a great idea, but i'm afraid about smurfs diamond/masters account who can go on lower leagues freely and play infinite unranked marches in order to roflstomp on bronzies. Then this unranked system would be completely useless for very low leagues, and even more stressful for bronzies to play against people who are potentially going to stomp on them...
I do think that these unranked matches should be only warm up, and can only be played 3 or 4 times a day... Well, what do you think guys?
On May 11 2012 08:32 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: This is silly, why would you release a game without all the features that were supposed to be in it.
Oh...Wait...nevermind
Marketing lol?
OT: I can see unranked season one being important to many people who can't start up custom games with close friends and flesh out interesting builds and try out new things before getting a handle on the new units.
On May 11 2012 18:48 CDR wrote: I am kinda biased about that. Sure it is a cool feature to offrace or warm up, but I am afraid it will hurt low leagues players. It might cause them to play only unranked games and make ladder queues too long. Will see.
In my opinion it's only going to get more people playing the game, even if it's unranked. People do ultimately want rewards for their play, if the unranked ladder helps people practice their builds and off-races then they hit the ladder the game will stay healthy and people might actually be better at the game. Also, the people with anxiety will also, hopefully, hit the unranked ladder, realise that it's not as bad as they thought, then eventually transition to the ranked play.
I would totally love an unranked MM. Sometimes you just want to play around and not have to be so serious, but friends and customs arent available. This will allow us to actually play for fun properly instead of constantly having a score telling you who you are and what you do after each game.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
God forbid people actually play a game to enjoy themselves.
yeah unranked is good, makes people less nervous and anxious before going into real matchmaking, though in reality they shouldn't really worry about it too much, because skill is what matters, not points.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
God forbid people actually play a game to enjoy themselves.
And it's not like they're getting rid of Ranked Ladder >.>
I reckon it's going to have minimal effect on ranked ladder. Why? Because people who get ladder anxiety ALREADY don't play or play very little. You're going to lose barely anyone and might even gain a few.
What if you could play ladder and "hide" your ranking. Wouldnt that be a better solution? But i hope they add a button to find game on any mode (ranked or unranked), for fast queues.
If its not there on day 1, it won't be there at all. That's pretty much how Blizzard games work. It's exactly what we saw with clan support and multiplayer replay viewing.
On May 11 2012 19:01 Alaiz wrote: This is a great idea, but i'm afraid about smurfs diamond/masters account who can go on lower leagues freely and play infinite unranked marches in order to roflstomp on bronzies. Then this unranked system would be completely useless for very low leagues, and even more stressful for bronzies to play against people who are potentially going to stomp on them...
I do think that these unranked matches should be only warm up, and can only be played 3 or 4 times a day... Well, what do you think guys?
I figured you would have two different MMRs: One for ladder, and one for the unranked. Anyone knows anything about this?
On May 11 2012 19:01 Alaiz wrote: This is a great idea, but i'm afraid about smurfs diamond/masters account who can go on lower leagues freely and play infinite unranked marches in order to roflstomp on bronzies. Then this unranked system would be completely useless for very low leagues, and even more stressful for bronzies to play against people who are potentially going to stomp on them...
I do think that these unranked matches should be only warm up, and can only be played 3 or 4 times a day... Well, what do you think guys?
I figured you would have two different MMRs: One for ladder, and one for the unranked. Anyone knows anything about this?
I think the Blizzard post was pretty clear on this. You have your normal MMR in ladder. You will meet opponents in unranked based on your ladder MMR.
I just view usually but this I felt like commenting on.
This is something that should have been in from day 1. In the previous games you could create your main, drunk, practice, troll accounts, etc off one CD-key. Since they have made you locked into one account this was needed. I know I kept 2 accounts for my WC3/SC1, one for real play and another I didn't care about.
If you want to work different builds or you are just drunk then this is a blessing. And anything to get more players to stay the better.
This may cause those who play ladder to be 'too good' compared to those coming into ladder, but this is the beast blizzard chose when they didn't allow multiple accounts. Load times may be too long too but it is hard to say until it is in place.
I think unranked will just reinforce the fact that nobody should really care about league and points, they should be more focused on skill as long as it does you an MMR system similar to ranked 1v1.
I still feel that it will suffer in the same sense as custom games though, there is no loss of points to deal with if you don't like your position, don't like what race you're paired against, don't like the map. I feel in the end regardless of how many people want it now, after implementation they might just change their minds and suck it up and play ranked.
I don't want to come across as completely against it either, it will definitely have its place and I'm sure that many people will get much use of it, however I don't think it's the bright green pasture people want, though there's no way to tell until it's implemented. The OP kind of confused me, if you are asking if we're OK with delaying HotS until this is out, fucking hell no. It would be a completely idiotic move in a business sense, if you're going to market an expansion, the overwhelming majority will buy it if they like the original game. If they don't, then they're more hesitant to purchase the expansion and something like this may tip them in favor of it. Great, but don't fucking delay the expansion for the overwhelming majority of people who will already purchase it.
On May 11 2012 23:52 Badfatpanda wrote: I think unranked will just reinforce the fact that nobody should really care about league and points, they should be more focused on skill as long as it does you an MMR system similar to ranked 1v1.
I still feel that it will suffer in the same sense as custom games though, there is no loss of points to deal with if you don't like your position, don't like what race you're paired against, don't like the map. I feel in the end regardless of how many people want it now, after implementation they might just change their minds and suck it up and play ranked.
I don't want to come across as completely against it either, it will definitely have its place and I'm sure that many people will get much use of it, however I don't think it's the bright green pasture people want, though there's no way to tell until it's implemented. The OP kind of confused me, if you are asking if we're OK with delaying HotS until this is out, fucking hell no. It would be a completely idiotic move in a business sense, if you're going to market an expansion, the overwhelming majority will buy it if they like the original game. If they don't, then they're more hesitant to purchase the expansion and something like this may tip them in favor of it. Great, but don't fucking delay the expansion for the overwhelming majority of people who will already purchase it.
I think it will be like a "ladder light" because while many won't use the real ladder many will play this. Really the purpose of the game is people having fun. The only reason people play ladder is the enjoyment of ranking up.
So if MMR stays on the unranked mode then people will be more invested than a custom game. If you do well there you'll play on ranked. Only concern I have is ranked play will end up so much higher level even at same MMR.
There is a serious question that is being ignored since it has been announced: will unranked matches change your MMR? There are two options, both are somewhat equally bad:
1. yes: You can just ditch a couple of unranked matches on purpose and go play ladder against easier oponents, gain points, profit.
2. no: If you play too many unranked matches, your skill may stray away from your MMR, making matchmaking essentially useless.
You should keep in mind that the only valuable part of the ladder is the matchmaking. Points, leagues, ranks are just for show - it is the system matching your MMR with the oponent's what makes you have good games, because you get balanced oponents. If there is a risk that unranked matchmaking damages the reliability of matchmaking, I say it is definitely not worth it, just to make a bunch of unreasonable people feel better about thier "rank".
Also, why does everybody keep saying that it is good for offracing and stuff? You will carry on your ladder MMR with you, so you will be getting games as badly outmached, as if you played ladder.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
No....just no....
There are those who would like to be able to work with the new units and figure out he new strats without access to a practice partner and this feature would give them the opportunity to do that. An not having it won't stop players who are "terrified" to play from not playing cause they just wont play. This would actually make the transition easy so I'm really not sure what your point even is cause all you've said to this point in time is false.
I would love to have this, there have been many times where I want to try another race but just end up losing most of my games on ladder if I try it. Plus it would be good to play as a warm up and to try crazy builds.
This type of thing would go hand in hand with an automated tournament system. Practice on the unranked matchmmaker and prove yourself in the online tournament.
On May 11 2012 18:14 Pwnani wrote: OP: this is retarded, unless you assume that your rank carries over from WOL. My guess is that it won't. Thus, in order to have unranked matchmaking(based on play) its almost guarenteed that you will have to play a few games on ladder or they won't have any way of determining what skill level you are at, unless there is something I am not thinking of. But yea, I wouldn't worry about it, but probably you will have to play ladder unless unranked matchmaking has an mmr of its own.
You clearly have never played WoW. After each expansion your character data switched over all your stats, armor, everything went over an seeing as how HotS is an expansion such as the 3 WoW had im sure it will actually move over sooooooo yea I don't see much validity in what you just said sorry bro.
I want a button to play a match with unnamed opponent without history of matches in this mode. It's like "fast start" in other games, like racings or some kinda stuff. Gonna be cool if there will be settings like "want to play against Zerg", or on particular map. So cool stuff for training. Maybe It will be the Ladder v2.0.
On May 12 2012 00:39 opisska wrote: There is a serious question that is being ignored since it has been announced: will unranked matches change your MMR? There are two options, both are somewhat equally bad:
1. yes: You can just ditch a couple of unranked matches on purpose and go play ladder against easier oponents, gain points, profit.
2. no: If you play too many unranked matches, your skill may stray away from your MMR, making matchmaking essentially useless.
You should keep in mind that the only valuable part of the ladder is the matchmaking. Points, leagues, ranks are just for show - it is the system matching your MMR with the oponent's what makes you have good games, because you get balanced oponents. If there is a risk that unranked matchmaking damages the reliability of matchmaking, I say it is definitely not worth it, just to make a bunch of unreasonable people feel better about thier "rank".
Also, why does everybody keep saying that it is good for offracing and stuff? You will carry on your ladder MMR with you, so you will be getting games as badly outmached, as if you played ladder.
edit: "unraked" is a pretty cool typo
Having MMR influence each other would defeat the purpose of "unranked"
It would have to be separate to even have a chance of working.
I don't see why you guys have to make it so complicated. Simply have two different MMRs. Ladder can stay the same and Unranked can have a rough hidden MMR with no wins/losses recorded. They should have it be a bit more relaxed for faster match finding (especially at the higher end) and the fact it is meant for enjoyment/practice/offracing or whatever.
On May 11 2012 08:50 IPA wrote: I'm anti unranked ladder period because it coddles all of the "terrified" players from stepping into the joy and heartbreak of true ladder. I think it'll raise up a new crop of cowards in HotS.
No....just no....
There are those who would like to be able to work with the new units and figure out he new strats without access to a practice partner and this feature would give them the opportunity to do that. An not having it won't stop players who are "terrified" to play from not playing cause they just wont play. This would actually make the transition easy so I'm really not sure what your point even is cause all you've said to this point in time is false.
I didn't think my point was obscure in my post -- allow me to clarify my position since you seem puzzled.
Search "ladder anxiety" in the SC2 general forum. It is a wide-spread phenomenon. Yes, Blizzard is wise to include unranked matchmaking in HotS because they are a business and it will provide worry-free entertainment for a bunch of (apparently) anxiety-stricken gamers used to having their hands held and thinking they are number one. You say it will be used by people trying out new strats and learning new units -- yes, it will be, to some extent, and that is fine and dandy. In my opinion (and on a much larger scale) it will be used mainly by kids who don't like to see how they stack up to others in a ranked, competitive environment because their fragile egos cannot handle the knowledge that they are not champions, but rather just another bit of prey in an enormous competitive cycle. That knowledge, and the sheer ferocious joy of beating someone when it counts, make SC2 what it is for me (and others too).
I know I'm in the minority here (and that's fine) but if you don't like competition and can't handle the elegant agony of defeat in SC2, you're playing the wrong game. That's my .02.
If i ever heard the word "ladder anxiety" again i will kill someone. As someone who is high master, and has a lot of high master friends i can tell you that the thing that we do, and its a god damn bad thing to do... since its a "time sink", but non the less the thing we do when we loss is play more til we win, maybe go for a walk or have a few days break after horrible losses but i can't think of a GM/high master player that only plays 70 "well thought out" games per season so he doesn't get "mocked" for having a low rank. And why the fuck would you care if you are not even competitive, the whole concept of being gold and being afraid to drop to silver is ridiculous... i understand that its a "natural" thing but if filtered trough logic you realize how silly it is... and guess what, "filtering" trough logic is something you have to do a lot when playing sc2. So quite frankly if someone cannot play cuz he is "scared' of not getting diamond most of the time they won't be able to play at all since after 1 or 2 losses they will get so angry that they won't be able to play well anymore since they won't think rationally due to emotions... there is not real way to help someone overcome "ladder anxiety" other than for himself to realize how silly the very notion of ladder anxiety is and no "season 1 import ratings from beta/wol" will change that quite frankly.
On May 12 2012 01:34 Aterons_toss wrote: If i ever heard the word "ladder anxiety" again i will kill someone. As someone who is high master, and has a lot of high master friends i can tell you that the thing that we do, and its a god damn bad thing to do... since its a "time sink", but non the less the thing we do when we loss is play more til we win, maybe go for a walk or have a few days break after horrible losses but i can't think of a GM/high master player that only plays 70 "well thought out" games per season so he doesn't get "mocked" for having a low rank. And why the fuck would you care if you are not even competitive, the whole concept of being gold and being afraid to drop to silver is ridiculous... i understand that its a "natural" thing but if filtered trough logic you realize how silly it is... and guess what, "filtering" trough logic is something you have to do a lot when playing sc2. So quite frankly if someone cannot play cuz he is "scared' of not getting diamond most of the time they won't be able to play at all since after 1 or 2 losses they will get so angry that they won't be able to play well anymore since they won't think rationally due to emotions... there is not real way to help someone overcome "ladder anxiety" other than for himself to realize how silly the very notion of ladder anxiety is and no "season 1 import ratings from beta/wol" will change that quite frankly.
its normal that some people don't like to be judged, even in games. that's what unranked is for
On May 12 2012 01:34 Aterons_toss wrote: If i ever heard the word "ladder anxiety" again i will kill someone. As someone who is high master, and has a lot of high master friends i can tell you that the thing that we do, and its a god damn bad thing to do... since its a "time sink", but non the less the thing we do when we loss is play more til we win, maybe go for a walk or have a few days break after horrible losses but i can't think of a GM/high master player that only plays 70 "well thought out" games per season so he doesn't get "mocked" for having a low rank. And why the fuck would you care if you are not even competitive, the whole concept of being gold and being afraid to drop to silver is ridiculous... i understand that its a "natural" thing but if filtered trough logic you realize how silly it is... and guess what, "filtering" trough logic is something you have to do a lot when playing sc2. So quite frankly if someone cannot play cuz he is "scared' of not getting diamond most of the time they won't be able to play at all since after 1 or 2 losses they will get so angry that they won't be able to play well anymore since they won't think rationally due to emotions... there is not real way to help someone overcome "ladder anxiety" other than for himself to realize how silly the very notion of ladder anxiety is and no "season 1 import ratings from beta/wol" will change that quite frankly.
its normal that some people don't like to be judged, even in games. that's what unranked is for
I said its normal, i agree, but if they can't get over it than there will likely be other similar obstacles laddering that they will face so why not accept ladder type of play isn't for them ? is not like you can't find custom matches nowadays
people saying that unranked is for people afraid of ladder, but those people aren't going to keep playing anyways because they don't care about ladder, they just hate losing.
i only hope that unranked matchmaking does consider your mmr a little bit though, since i don't want to stomp bronze players and then get totally rocked by top masters. i just want an environment where i can be one click away from practice my mechanics and build orders with an actual opponent instead of AI and not worry about winning or losing.
edit: to clarify, my mindset going into this game and any other competition for the sake of entertainment is simply getting better quickly. i don't care about making friends or connections or sharing an experience with anyone in this game, really. i just like playing and learning and improving, even if it's by myself. to that end, i don't like joining clans or trying to find practice partners. i just want to play.
but if i'm going to play ladder, i want to play my best, and i often cannot do that because i'm more concerned about not losing then i am about playing well, which is not fun for me. however i want to play against actual people, so this unranked matchmaking is really good for someone like me who wants to build better habits in game without having to go through a whole deal of psyching myself up and altering my way of thinking in an unnatural way.
On May 11 2012 08:35 HeroMystic wrote: If anything, Unranked Matchmaking would be absolutely required so players can get used to the new units and build viable strats before going on the ladder.
No its not required because everyone is on the same page. If everyone had to get used to the new units, it means that everyone has the same advantage/disadvantage. I really don't understand this at all. I mean I will continue to play whatever the hell I want, with complete disregard to my rank. Do you know why? Because i'm the only person in the whole who actually doesn't gives a damn about it. My friends don't give me shit about it... Do your's? If they do, you should really consider getting new friends... I mean really... That rank is only to tell you how much you improved since last time... I really don't understand why there even is a "ladder anxiety"... Jesus christ, why the hell are you afraid of dropping down a few points? Are you friends going to make fun of you? Are you going to die if you meet people who are EQUALLY matched with you? Is that why you are afraid? OMG I JUST LOST TO A GOLD LEAGUE PLAYER?!?! I feel pity.... Just do as I do.. As soon as your match is over, just get out of the damn multiplayer screen.... You don't need to know how good he was... If you need to learn, all info is in the replay.... YOU NEVER NEED TO KNOW WHAT RANK HE WAS....
It doesn't even matter to how well you played.... You lost or won because of some timing or army positioning or whatever.. Not because he was lucky... YOU LOST BECAUSE YOU GOT OUTPLAYED... As soon as you see that, you will improve, I promise you....
I don't really plan on using it, so I guess I'd say "don't care."
Are people really that fearful of losing points? If I'm anxious about playing in a ranked 1v1 against some player, I'm still going to be anxious playing against that player 1v1 in an unranked match. The rank has nothing to do with, I want to win because I want to win, and when I lose I feel bad about losing. If it says +0 after a loss, that doesn't make me feel any less bad about losing to that player because I still lost!
I'm thinking some people are going to realize once this is released that their anxiety doesn't stem from ranked/unranked.
But anyways, even if you were afraid of someone having an unfair advantage at HotS season 1 start, and you thought you'd lose games, why would you play unranked? If you'd lose in ranked, you'll lose in unranked. If you start to win in unranked, you'd be winning in ranked too. Ranked ladder will simulate the exact same process.
For example, Scenario 1: Let's say you start out bad and want to play unranked to improve. So you play and lose a bunch because you're bad. You continue to lose, but continue to learn also. Then eventually you start to win more because you've gotten good again, and now you rejoin ranked playing at your correct skill level.
Scenario 2: You start out bad and want to played ranked to improve. You play a lose a bunch because you're bad and your rating goes down. You continue to lose and learn while your rating drop slows down. Eventually you start to win more again because you're improving and your rating goes up. You become good again and because you've been playing ranked and winning now, your ladder rank has moved back to the correct position based on your skill.
What is the purpose of scenario 1?
Just improve your actual ability at the game, and your ladder league/points will follow. Don't waste time worrying about temporary drops in points.
On May 12 2012 01:03 Glockateer wrote: I don't see why you guys have to make it so complicated. Simply have two different MMRs. Ladder can stay the same and Unranked can have a rough hidden MMR with no wins/losses recorded. They should have it be a bit more relaxed for faster match finding (especially at the higher end) and the fact it is meant for enjoyment/practice/offracing or whatever.
This is a clever idea and it would bascially solve completely everything. But I doubt it will be implemented like that and I am afraid that ladder MMR will play at least some role. Let us only hope it will not be influenced - but I won't be so sure.
On May 12 2012 01:03 Glockateer wrote: I don't see why you guys have to make it so complicated. Simply have two different MMRs. Ladder can stay the same and Unranked can have a rough hidden MMR with no wins/losses recorded. They should have it be a bit more relaxed for faster match finding (especially at the higher end) and the fact it is meant for enjoyment/practice/offracing or whatever.
This is a clever idea and it would bascially solve completely everything. But I doubt it will be implemented like that and I am afraid that ladder MMR will play at least some role. Let us only hope it will not be influenced - but I won't be so sure.
What's that solve though?
Its more about people being fearful to ladder. The people using it to both Ladder and practice new things unranked are using it kind of 'as intended' It's more the people who would have otherwise tried the ladder, but now will not touch it that i'm concerned about.
Having separate MMRs for both ladders introduces other problems, as the non-ranked ladder has no consequences for losing what is stopping me from insta-leaving 10~ games on unranked, and then stomping those people, and doing it again? All the while my "real" masters MMR is unaffected. It's essentially a free smurf account for an environment that is hardly competitive, and barely different from the custom game system in place now.
I could give a shit about unranked play. THe only reason I'm going to use it at all is they said it can be used for offracing, so I'm assuming there's a different MMR attatched which I will use to play lower level people with my main race to test builds/ideas in a low pressure enviroment and to offrace. I don't know why you assume they're going to delay everything for unranked MM anyway.
On May 12 2012 05:56 AeroGear wrote: There's already unranked matches, they are called custom games. Playing a weak opponment (in order to win), is only delaying a loss.
Indeed, but not everybody wants unranked ladder games to play weak opponents. I, for one, realized that there are so many anxious and easily irritated people on the ladder, even in the lower leagues, and if these unranked matches can calm some of those people down then it's a good thing.
On May 12 2012 01:34 Aterons_toss wrote: If i ever heard the word "ladder anxiety" again i will kill someone. As someone who is high master, and has a lot of high master friends i can tell you that the thing that we do, and its a god damn bad thing to do... since its a "time sink", but non the less the thing we do when we loss is play more til we win, maybe go for a walk or have a few days break after horrible losses but i can't think of a GM/high master player that only plays 70 "well thought out" games per season so he doesn't get "mocked" for having a low rank. And why the fuck would you care if you are not even competitive, the whole concept of being gold and being afraid to drop to silver is ridiculous... i understand that its a "natural" thing but if filtered trough logic you realize how silly it is... and guess what, "filtering" trough logic is something you have to do a lot when playing sc2. So quite frankly if someone cannot play cuz he is "scared' of not getting diamond most of the time they won't be able to play at all since after 1 or 2 losses they will get so angry that they won't be able to play well anymore since they won't think rationally due to emotions... there is not real way to help someone overcome "ladder anxiety" other than for himself to realize how silly the very notion of ladder anxiety is and no "season 1 import ratings from beta/wol" will change that quite frankly.
its normal that some people don't like to be judged, even in games. that's what unranked is for
I said its normal, i agree, but if they can't get over it than there will likely be other similar obstacles laddering that they will face so why not accept ladder type of play isn't for them ? is not like you can't find custom matches nowadays
last time i tried to play a custom, i only faced people either WAY above me or WAY below me
On May 12 2012 01:34 Aterons_toss wrote: If i ever heard the word "ladder anxiety" again i will kill someone. As someone who is high master, and has a lot of high master friends i can tell you that the thing that we do, and its a god damn bad thing to do... since its a "time sink", but non the less the thing we do when we loss is play more til we win, maybe go for a walk or have a few days break after horrible losses but i can't think of a GM/high master player that only plays 70 "well thought out" games per season so he doesn't get "mocked" for having a low rank. And why the fuck would you care if you are not even competitive, the whole concept of being gold and being afraid to drop to silver is ridiculous... i understand that its a "natural" thing but if filtered trough logic you realize how silly it is... and guess what, "filtering" trough logic is something you have to do a lot when playing sc2. So quite frankly if someone cannot play cuz he is "scared' of not getting diamond most of the time they won't be able to play at all since after 1 or 2 losses they will get so angry that they won't be able to play well anymore since they won't think rationally due to emotions... there is not real way to help someone overcome "ladder anxiety" other than for himself to realize how silly the very notion of ladder anxiety is and no "season 1 import ratings from beta/wol" will change that quite frankly.
its normal that some people don't like to be judged, even in games. that's what unranked is for
I said its normal, i agree, but if they can't get over it than there will likely be other similar obstacles laddering that they will face so why not accept ladder type of play isn't for them ? is not like you can't find custom matches nowadays
that's the point.jpg, Blizzard sees that the ladder type of play isn't for them, so they gives them alternatives. custom games aren't the solution because it has no matchmaking
LoL has exactly this, and it probably has exponentially more people playing on normal than rank. Most players that I know of have a ratio of 10 normal game per rank played, some even more.
and then I have the a few on friend list who touched less than 30 games ranked in an entire season of LoL with over 1k normal played
On May 12 2012 06:52 Penecks wrote: Having separate MMRs for both ladders introduces other problems, as the non-ranked ladder has no consequences for losing what is stopping me from insta-leaving 10~ games on unranked, and then stomping those people, and doing it again? All the while my "real" masters MMR is unaffected. It's essentially a free smurf account for an environment that is hardly competitive, and barely different from the custom game system in place now.
obscure cases, most people aren't bored enough to do this. And those that do probably don't give a crap ass about ranked ladder in the first place
custom games have NO matchmaking whatsoever, of course its not the same
On May 12 2012 05:49 Befree wrote: I don't really plan on using it, so I guess I'd say "don't care."
Are people really that fearful of losing points? If I'm anxious about playing in a ranked 1v1 against some player, I'm still going to be anxious playing against that player 1v1 in an unranked match. The rank has nothing to do with, I want to win because I want to win, and when I lose I feel bad about losing. If it says +0 after a loss, that doesn't make me feel any less bad about losing to that player because I still lost!
I'm thinking some people are going to realize once this is released that their anxiety doesn't stem from ranked/unranked.
But anyways, even if you were afraid of someone having an unfair advantage at HotS season 1 start, and you thought you'd lose games, why would you play unranked? If you'd lose in ranked, you'll lose in unranked. If you start to win in unranked, you'd be winning in ranked too. Ranked ladder will simulate the exact same process.
For example, Scenario 1: Let's say you start out bad and want to play unranked to improve. So you play and lose a bunch because you're bad. You continue to lose, but continue to learn also. Then eventually you start to win more because you've gotten good again, and now you rejoin ranked playing at your correct skill level.
Scenario 2: You start out bad and want to played ranked to improve. You play a lose a bunch because you're bad and your rating goes down. You continue to lose and learn while your rating drop slows down. Eventually you start to win more again because you're improving and your rating goes up. You become good again and because you've been playing ranked and winning now, your ladder rank has moved back to the correct position based on your skill.
What is the purpose of scenario 1?
Just improve your actual ability at the game, and your ladder league/points will follow. Don't waste time worrying about temporary drops in points.
some people plays this game for fun, ladder and competitive gameplay is secondary or even a detrimental factors for them, especially more true for older generation gamers.
unimaginable concept I know, who still plays games for fun in 2012.
I guess I just can't see why you can't play 'for fun' on the ladder. My second account is just for goofing off and doing silly stuff...but I just do it on the ladder and just don't worry about my rank.
It's not going drag huge amount of players away from ladder, since eventually unranked games will bore anyone, since when you keep playing them, your skills will increase, but your opponents skill level stays the same.
There won't be any fear for losing players from real ladder because of this feature.
On May 12 2012 12:22 EnderSword wrote: I guess I just can't see why you can't play 'for fun' on the ladder. My second account is just for goofing off and doing silly stuff...but I just do it on the ladder and just don't worry about my rank.
Why does for fun have to be unranked?
Some do care about their rank and it might prevent them from trying out other races or playing random. If playing unranked helps people enjoy the game, why not.
I dont know why people are so scared to play ranked. Unranked matchmaking will just split players and i hope that there are enough players in ranked matchmaking
i hope they have a plan for this, but even if not, it will be hilarious to see, 80% of the games being not longer then 10 seconds, because everyone would leave till they have their map and their matchup they wanted.
On May 11 2012 19:01 Alaiz wrote: This is a great idea, but i'm afraid about smurfs diamond/masters account who can go on lower leagues freely and play infinite unranked marches in order to roflstomp on bronzies. Then this unranked system would be completely useless for very low leagues, and even more stressful for bronzies to play against people who are potentially going to stomp on them...
I do think that these unranked matches should be only warm up, and can only be played 3 or 4 times a day... Well, what do you think guys?
I figured you would have two different MMRs: One for ladder, and one for the unranked. Anyone knows anything about this?
I think the Blizzard post was pretty clear on this. You have your normal MMR in ladder. You will meet opponents in unranked based on your ladder MMR.
If they do it this way it will get abused badly. Someone can tank their ladder MMR and then play unranked all day and noob stomp for fun.
On May 11 2012 19:01 Alaiz wrote: This is a great idea, but i'm afraid about smurfs diamond/masters account who can go on lower leagues freely and play infinite unranked marches in order to roflstomp on bronzies. Then this unranked system would be completely useless for very low leagues, and even more stressful for bronzies to play against people who are potentially going to stomp on them...
I do think that these unranked matches should be only warm up, and can only be played 3 or 4 times a day... Well, what do you think guys?
I figured you would have two different MMRs: One for ladder, and one for the unranked. Anyone knows anything about this?
I think the Blizzard post was pretty clear on this. You have your normal MMR in ladder. You will meet opponents in unranked based on your ladder MMR.
If they do it this way it will get abused badly. Someone can tank their ladder MMR and then play unranked all day and noob stomp for fun.
Honestly people are already able to do that; the average public custom game or obs game is mostly noobs, right?
It's fine, and I don't care too much. Give the people too scared to play a game (a theory I still don't understand) their own little world to play against other people too scared to play, why not? Doesn't seem to have much of a downside.
EPT
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