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How to E-Sports (Expectancies and Starters) - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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fams
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada731 Posts
June 20 2012 21:32 GMT
#101
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 21 2012 06:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2012 05:48 fams wrote:
On June 21 2012 03:36 Torte de Lini wrote:
From my experiences in the three main domains (and you can see my credentials at the bottom the of the first page), there is no compensation for what you do. "earned" is a subjective view and can be more tallied by how long you work somewhere rather than how much (and while they do sound like they are congruent, they aren't always). This topic is about starting and getting into E-Sports and contributing, there is no compensation because most organizations dictate someone's value by dedication and that's evaluated by production. EG doesn't offer immediate paid jobs, but you go higher in ranks the longer and harder you work there. This is similar for all organizations, though some misadvertise it. ESFI offers comepensation and lodging, but it depends also on your proximity to events. If you're in Canada, you will never be paid to go to events and even lodging is unlikely to be paid as well. It all depends on the person, but don't let words advertise dictate a truth unless experienced.


To underplay reward to better emphasize the sentimental reward that drives the majority of volunteers, then I think that's a fair protrayal. However, I think I am accurately describing both entry-level contributions as well most of the scene and some establish organizations.


1. Looking at your "credentials", my only thought is: "I would not expect compensation from those organizations considering how underdeveloped they are." ESFI I already commented on. VT is/was a semi-pro team, and iS is really new and growing well from what I have seen and heard.

2. Earned is not really subjective. It has always been the same at every organization I have ever come across when dealing with entry-level eSports positions.

You usually have a trial period (2-3 months usually) after which you will discuss what kind of compensation is befitting. If no compensation is befitting - which happens - then either the trial period is extended or the person leaves or is let go.

I have seen so many people get amazing opportunities in eSports for entry level positions where the organization was looking to actually pay the person should they prove they were reliable, and they just were not reliable. The person would always leave after a week. Very rarely did I see entry-level applicants make it through their trial periods. And let me tell you, it is not difficult to make it through a trial period with a good impression.

3. EG does offer immediately paid jobs. They post about them on Twitter often enough. Do they pay every new entry-level writer/contributor they get? Of course not. That said, those people are not full time, and only work very sparse hours. Even then, they are compensated with incentives from what I have seen.

4. ESFI has dozens of employees with varying levels of expertise. Certain employees are flown to every event when possible. Otherwise, the "base team" is usually whoever is closest. And with a company like that, with many volunteer writers, that is the best way. That chance to travel to an event, etc, is compensation for their hard work during the times when they cannot go to events.

5. I assume your comment about Canada was directed at ESFI? Even if you are talking about ESFI exclusively, that is only partially true. ESFI has paid half of a Canadians ticket (Edmonton to Providence no less) as well as lodging, etc.

6. Your last statement is not giving a "fair portrayal" of the eSports industry whatsoever. I have no clue what "established" organizations you are referring to, but I would love to know.


5. is not about ESFI, no. It's in general. Brent is one of the most level-headed people I've had the fortune of working with (Derek does great interviews too, love him).

6. Naming specifics only leads to splititng hairs similar to your point in #1 where you rely on my personal credentials to assist in generalities.

Like I said, the topic in general and lays out the overall goal and viewpoint that even if there were rare opportunities for compensation, it shouldn't be a title or central focal point of this whole topic. While you may know people with different scenarios, anecdotal experiences or contexts with their backed expertise, there are others who obviously haven't had the same fortune. It's easy to find exceptions to a landscaping article that sets two major foundations from one person's experiences (extended or not). This is based both on my experiences as well as those, high or low-level people, I've had the fortune of talking to over the years.

This is all in my introduction by the way:
Show nested quote +
I'm writing this with the idea of both ensuring people who are interested in working in the industry are aware of what to look for, how to get involved and what to expect when working within this scene. Also, I hope to advise those who manage volunteers, players, contributors on how to not only treat them properly, but to also sell your organization over others.

Upon reaching 20,000 posts, I've come to realize both two things: the misconception of what people should seek or understand when wanting to do that little extra in this E-Sports scene and how organizations, big or small, usually treat their volunteers/contributors. This guide aims to both state the obvious of fair treatment, considerations of both sides and draw upon my own experiences to both outline what's to be expected for up and coming contributors.


It's a fair portayal to tell people not to expect compensation directly or even as a path towards. Any form of compensation is the result of passionate and dedicated work for the sake of its production and its spread or engagement to the audience or community. Even if you or I were wrong/right, I don't feel a need to change the topic in a manner that better reflects a positive likelihood or either monetary benefits or travel because the values embedded in this text is both understanding the real treat of working in a growing industry + the expected treatment of organizations should apply to their volunteers.

Anything else beyond that is the result of a person's individual work or dedication. Money in E-Sports is not necessarily a tabooed topic, but the emphasis of passion and the delight to do what you want to do and finding your place in this growing industry and culture is a much more relevant one for those seeking entry as well as those establishing themselves. If you disagree then we clearly had different experiences and interaction with a different set of people (both are acceptable, just contrasted).


5. If that comment wasn't about ESFI exclusively, then I am going to just flat out say it is untrue.

As for the rest - I agree with you that peoples intentions should be more focused on doing this because they love it rather than making a pile of money. However, the way you wrote that sentiment was incredibly inaccurate.

Moral of the story - there are incentives out there, there is compensation, you do have to work your tail off and sacrifice a lot, and in the end, your intentions should be your love of eSports, not your minute potential financial gains.
http://www.twitter.com/famsytron/
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-20 21:38:08
June 20 2012 21:37 GMT
#102
5. I think we just differ then.

I think it's because it comes first that it seems more extreme than you would like. Earlier drafts of this had this a lot less emphasized and lower/toned down on the list.. It was after talking with so many people in different divisions and sections of this scene that I was advised to put a bit more emphasis and maybe a bit more harshness to it.

It's why I am so adamant on this point. The language is pretty cut-throat too.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-20 21:44:37
June 20 2012 21:39 GMT
#103
Don't let this topic stop you from posting a more (personal) accurate critical portrayal of the scene based on your experiences and talks with other people. If you feel there is a misrepresentation, then by all means, post your own guide to better inform others.

Thanks again for your feedback though.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 08 2012 22:32 GMT
#104
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358842

Bumping this, I feel it is relevant to the topic.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 18 2012 22:44 GMT
#105
Updated small wording on some paragraphs

added new complimentary readings.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
November 18 2012 23:00 GMT
#106
Did someone get a mod to remove his or her comments, or did you just quadrapost in your own topic?

Worth the bump though, nice OP, with some good points.
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 19 2012 01:10 GMT
#107
they're separated by months apart (some of them), so I'm hoping it doesn't hurt me too much.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 26 2012 20:06 GMT
#108
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/25/esports_career/

Added latest piece from prodigsc
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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