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How to E-Sports (Expectancies and Starters) - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
May 02 2012 22:15 GMT
#21
best put together thread I've seen in ages
FoTG fighting!
sYz-Adrenaline
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1850 Posts
May 02 2012 22:17 GMT
#22
So long.. Should be a good read coming form Torte
Can you feel the rush?
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
May 02 2012 22:19 GMT
#23
I think there is more money involved in esports than you suggest. It's certainly not easy to come by but if you work hard, it's reasonable to expect that you can see some of it.
:O
tnud
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden2233 Posts
May 02 2012 22:22 GMT
#24
I'm gonna read that! Soon! It's almost 1am here though!

Seriously gj on putting this together and I'll read it tomorrow, promise =)
- ಠ_ಠ - | disinfect wrote: AHAHHAHAHA 2DG FUCK ME ALREADY.
Legion710
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 22:24:11
May 02 2012 22:23 GMT
#25
The fact that he mentions Huk just joined Millenium suggests that he started writing this a LONG time ago. It also means some content may be outdated, including the mention of "no money at all". I think there's some money, granted nobody does it for the money.
Tyrion Lannister
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 22:29:13
May 02 2012 22:23 GMT
#26
On May 03 2012 07:19 chobopeon wrote:
I think there is more money involved in esports than you suggest. It's certainly not easy to come by but if you work hard, it's reasonable to expect that you can see some of it.


When we reference money, we're talking about available funds to support and properly pay contributors fairly and up to par to what is generally expected.

"Work hard" is a very ambigious word and cannot be quanitifed. It's best to avoid the idea and focus more on what you're working on as well as how you're doing it rather than the prospects of it (or the future).

On May 03 2012 07:23 Legion710 wrote:
The fact that he mentions Huk just joined Millenium suggests that he started writing this a LONG time ago. It also means some content may be outdated, including the mention of "no money at all".


I wrote it about a 3 weeks ago [April 20th] (I've been drafting and revising it since): It's not outdated nor long ago. There is no money readily available to hire a substantial amount of staff at a steady and reliable income.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
YuTz
Profile Joined September 2010
United States119 Posts
May 02 2012 22:24 GMT
#27
Not to shabby Michael
Old School.....
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
May 02 2012 22:36 GMT
#28
A guide like is will be most valuable to newbies of the scene like redditers, so please help upboat the thread http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t3zwh/guide_to_working_in_esports_from_a_respected_tler/ (and give me karma).
Thank God and gunrun.
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
May 02 2012 22:38 GMT
#29
On May 03 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 07:19 chobopeon wrote:
I think there is more money involved in esports than you suggest. It's certainly not easy to come by but if you work hard, it's reasonable to expect that you can see some of it.


When we reference money, we're talking about available funds to support and properly pay contributors fairly and up to par to what is generally expected.

"Work hard" is a very ambigious word and cannot be quanitifed. It's best to avoid the idea and focus more on what you're working on as well as how you're doing it rather than the prospects of it (or the future).


On the contrary, I think working hard is best emphasized. People often get into esports with unrealistic expectations. They should know that if you are persistent, hard working and put out a quality product, there is in fact money to be made.
Otherwise, it may be a shortlived and disappointing time for the person who does not know what he is getting into. It's ambiguous because I'm talking about all possible business opportunities in esports - this whole thread has tons of ambiguity and that's fine, it's the nature of the subject. I can specify if a more specific role is brought up.

I will grant you that there are a wide range of circumstances and motivations that will affect the way person A, B and C contribute to the scene. A may need that monetary goal because of where he is in life, B may not and C may be somewhere else entirely. It's all quite ambiguous, yeah.

Anyway, I just think it's plain not true to say there is no money in esports and it's unfair to tell contributors that. Money is there but it is not easy to earn.
:O
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
May 02 2012 22:40 GMT
#30
On May 03 2012 05:17 Torte de Lini wrote:
I got to meet players such as HuK (who now has left to Millenium),


Huk left to join Millenium?
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
JOJOsc2news
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
3000 Posts
May 02 2012 22:41 GMT
#31
On May 03 2012 07:36 Primadog wrote:
A guide like is will be most valuable to newbies of the scene like redditers, so please help upboat the thread http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t3zwh/guide_to_working_in_esports_from_a_respected_tler/ (and give me karma).


Already did. You Karma whore!
✉ Tweets @sc2channel ⌦ Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/JOJO ⌫ "Arbiterssss... build more arbiterssss." Click 'Profile' for awesome shiro art!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 02 2012 22:43 GMT
#32
On May 03 2012 07:38 chobopeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
On May 03 2012 07:19 chobopeon wrote:
I think there is more money involved in esports than you suggest. It's certainly not easy to come by but if you work hard, it's reasonable to expect that you can see some of it.


When we reference money, we're talking about available funds to support and properly pay contributors fairly and up to par to what is generally expected.

"Work hard" is a very ambigious word and cannot be quanitifed. It's best to avoid the idea and focus more on what you're working on as well as how you're doing it rather than the prospects of it (or the future).


On the contrary, I think working hard is best emphasized. People often get into esports with unrealistic expectations. They should know that if you are persistent, hard working and put out a quality product, there is in fact money to be made.
Otherwise, it may be a shortlived and disappointing time for the person who does not know what he is getting into. It's ambiguous because I'm talking about all possible business opportunities in esports - this whole thread has tons of ambiguity and that's fine, it's the nature of the subject. I can specify if a more specific role is brought up.

I will grant you that there are a wide range of circumstances and motivations that will affect the way person A, B and C contribute to the scene. A may need that monetary goal because of where he is in life, B may not and C may be somewhere else entirely. It's all quite ambiguous, yeah.

Anyway, I just think it's plain not true to say there is no money in esports and it's unfair to tell contributors that. Money is there but it is not easy to earn.


I think working with a passion and with effort is a better qualitative idea that what you're trying to relay to everyone. Hard-working and persistence are all inter-related with the idea that you love doing what you are doing and working in that clockwise sense and fashion. When you talk to and read stories about djWHEAT, Day[9] and SirScoots, you hear about how they got into the scene and doing what they enjoy more than the path of getting what you earned or working hard towards eventually getting what you feel you can earn later on.

Money to them and to everyone should never be the end-goal or the rational next step to what working hard or persistence should be. It never was and should never be and I think you know that above many others. Right time, right place for the things you talk about and I try to avoid as a main-line of discussion because ultimately, its relevance shouldn't be important yet. This guide is for those looking to get started into the scene and sector, I think highlighting any real likelihood of money is to presume a foreseeable future that isn't realistic or remotely possible yet. While I see your point of view, it's going left-field with ideals.

I think you have to consider who the target audience is before claiming something is untrue.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 22:44:49
May 02 2012 22:44 GMT
#33
On May 03 2012 07:40 firehand101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 05:17 Torte de Lini wrote:
I got to meet players such as HuK (who now has left to Millenium),


Huk left to join Millenium?


Sorry, I see the typo. Back then, he left VT Gaming and went to Millenium.
It's been fixed and clarified, thank you.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
May 02 2012 22:50 GMT
#34
Torte de Lini too stronk
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
Fueled
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1610 Posts
May 02 2012 23:05 GMT
#35
Amazing read so far. Haven't finished it yet, but so far so good ^_^
The Wood League - Where a double gas opening can still mean a Marine/SCV all-in
Chococosby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States12 Posts
May 02 2012 23:35 GMT
#36
Looking at this through a graphic designers perspective who is trying to make it in this field I feel that organizations and teams can do more in terms of compensation. But not necessarily monetarily, I feel that teams and designers/writers could be mutually benefited by forming more partnerships.

Example:
You are starting a team with yourself and a few other GM level players. You receive design work whether it be web design or branding from a designer. If it is of professional level these are $1000+ services. Obviously you will not be able to pay them that sum of money but you could list them as a sponsor for the team. Yes they did not provide you with monetary support but they are providing you with the most important piece of building your team brand which is the one true thing your team owns. The graphic designer will be able to also return the favor by using the piece in his portfolio and linking to your site for people to find out more about the project.

Obviously situations like this are not applicable to everyone but the idea is that teams and volunteers need to mutually benefit from the work put in.

The cycle has to be in full circle though. Those who have money and influence need to not abuse the volunteers and give out whatever compensation they can. Whether that be through promotion, travel or money. I have seen a lot of organizations not give out any compensation beyond a name accredited to a graphic or article that doesn't even link to anything.

Those who do not yet have any money or influence will need the help of good natured volunteers and should be able to build a team to start a project and grow together. Again this has to still be mutually beneficial obviously going into such a venture you know you will not see any immediate compensation but the success you may find should be shared and not only be attributed to an individual person or team.

TL;DR Help eachother out we're all pretty much after the same thing

I make shirts and sponsor Infinity Seven, http://www.ggwpapparel.com
rUiNati0n
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1155 Posts
May 02 2012 23:36 GMT
#37
Really informative ^^
eating corn while thinking about eating more corn
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 23:40:31
May 02 2012 23:40 GMT
#38
On May 03 2012 08:35 Chococosby wrote:
Looking at this through a graphic designers perspective who is trying to make it in this field I feel that organizations and teams can do more in terms of compensation. But not necessarily monetarily, I feel that teams and designers/writers could be mutually benefited by forming more partnerships.

Example:
You are starting a team with yourself and a few other GM level players. You receive design work whether it be web design or branding from a designer. If it is of professional level these are $1000+ services. Obviously you will not be able to pay them that sum of money but you could list them as a sponsor for the team. Yes they did not provide you with monetary support but they are providing you with the most important piece of building your team brand which is the one true thing your team owns. The graphic designer will be able to also return the favor by using the piece in his portfolio and linking to your site for people to find out more about the project.

Obviously situations like this are not applicable to everyone but the idea is that teams and volunteers need to mutually benefit from the work put in.

[b]The cycle has to be in full circle though. Those who have money and influence need to not abuse the volunteers and give out whatever compensation they can. Whether that be through promotion, travel or money. I have seen a lot of organizations not give out any compensation beyond a name accredited to a graphic or article that doesn't even link to anything.

[b]Those who do not yet have any money or influence will need the help of good natured volunteers and should be able to build a team to start a project and grow together. Again this has to still be mutually beneficial obviously going into such a venture you know you will not see any immediate compensation but the success you may find should be shared and not only be attributed to an individual person or team.

TL;DR Help eachother out we're all pretty much after the same thing


Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with the circular effect of helping! Thanks a lot for your idea and view!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
toobulkeh
Profile Joined August 2011
United States8 Posts
May 03 2012 00:13 GMT
#39
Dan "toobulkeh" Moore from ESFIworld here

Great read Cohen! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have had similar experiences and groups / corporations I've worked for in my experience surrounding Gaming online have been extremely broad and similar. It is very hard to turn a profit at doing something you love (eSports) with minimal control (volunteer). Even as a leader (Administrator, etc...) my experience is that time and investment (monetary) are the only things that cross the boundary from passion to paid.

eSports is still a new (90s) scene, and I completely agree that it's not flooded with money. But only our own investment and energy will bring others to it. So keep it up! Don't give up.

For transparency, my personal experience has involved:
1. joe.to
2. doormanisgod
3. esfiworld.com
4. infinityseven
5. itb
6. nipper
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 03 2012 00:55 GMT
#40
On May 03 2012 09:13 toobulkeh wrote:
Dan "toobulkeh" Moore from ESFIworld here

Great read Cohen! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have had similar experiences and groups / corporations I've worked for in my experience surrounding Gaming online have been extremely broad and similar. It is very hard to turn a profit at doing something you love (eSports) with minimal control (volunteer). Even as a leader (Administrator, etc...) my experience is that time and investment (monetary) are the only things that cross the boundary from passion to paid.

eSports is still a new (90s) scene, and I completely agree that it's not flooded with money. But only our own investment and energy will bring others to it. So keep it up! Don't give up.

For transparency, my personal experience has involved:
1. joe.to
2. doormanisgod
3. esfiworld.com
4. infinityseven
5. itb
6. nipper


I've contemplated posting my expereinces and resume, but I feel that it'd be a conflict of interest.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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