EPTHow to E-Sports (Expectancies and Starters) - Page 2
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
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sYz-Adrenaline
United States1850 Posts
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
Seriously gj on putting this together and I'll read it tomorrow, promise =) | ||
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Legion710
Canada423 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:19 chobopeon wrote: I think there is more money involved in esports than you suggest. It's certainly not easy to come by but if you work hard, it's reasonable to expect that you can see some of it. When we reference money, we're talking about available funds to support and properly pay contributors fairly and up to par to what is generally expected. "Work hard" is a very ambigious word and cannot be quanitifed. It's best to avoid the idea and focus more on what you're working on as well as how you're doing it rather than the prospects of it (or the future). On May 03 2012 07:23 Legion710 wrote: The fact that he mentions Huk just joined Millenium suggests that he started writing this a LONG time ago. It also means some content may be outdated, including the mention of "no money at all". I wrote it about a 3 weeks ago [April 20th] (I've been drafting and revising it since): It's not outdated nor long ago. There is no money readily available to hire a substantial amount of staff at a steady and reliable income. | ||
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YuTz
United States119 Posts
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote: When we reference money, we're talking about available funds to support and properly pay contributors fairly and up to par to what is generally expected. "Work hard" is a very ambigious word and cannot be quanitifed. It's best to avoid the idea and focus more on what you're working on as well as how you're doing it rather than the prospects of it (or the future). On the contrary, I think working hard is best emphasized. People often get into esports with unrealistic expectations. They should know that if you are persistent, hard working and put out a quality product, there is in fact money to be made. Otherwise, it may be a shortlived and disappointing time for the person who does not know what he is getting into. It's ambiguous because I'm talking about all possible business opportunities in esports - this whole thread has tons of ambiguity and that's fine, it's the nature of the subject. I can specify if a more specific role is brought up. I will grant you that there are a wide range of circumstances and motivations that will affect the way person A, B and C contribute to the scene. A may need that monetary goal because of where he is in life, B may not and C may be somewhere else entirely. It's all quite ambiguous, yeah. Anyway, I just think it's plain not true to say there is no money in esports and it's unfair to tell contributors that. Money is there but it is not easy to earn. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
On May 03 2012 05:17 Torte de Lini wrote: I got to meet players such as HuK (who now has left to Millenium), Huk left to join Millenium? | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:36 Primadog wrote: A guide like is will be most valuable to newbies of the scene like redditers, so please help upboat the thread http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t3zwh/guide_to_working_in_esports_from_a_respected_tler/ (and give me karma). Already did. You Karma whore!  | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:38 chobopeon wrote: On the contrary, I think working hard is best emphasized. People often get into esports with unrealistic expectations. They should know that if you are persistent, hard working and put out a quality product, there is in fact money to be made. Otherwise, it may be a shortlived and disappointing time for the person who does not know what he is getting into. It's ambiguous because I'm talking about all possible business opportunities in esports - this whole thread has tons of ambiguity and that's fine, it's the nature of the subject. I can specify if a more specific role is brought up. I will grant you that there are a wide range of circumstances and motivations that will affect the way person A, B and C contribute to the scene. A may need that monetary goal because of where he is in life, B may not and C may be somewhere else entirely. It's all quite ambiguous, yeah. Anyway, I just think it's plain not true to say there is no money in esports and it's unfair to tell contributors that. Money is there but it is not easy to earn. I think working with a passion and with effort is a better qualitative idea that what you're trying to relay to everyone. Hard-working and persistence are all inter-related with the idea that you love doing what you are doing and working in that clockwise sense and fashion. When you talk to and read stories about djWHEAT, Day[9] and SirScoots, you hear about how they got into the scene and doing what they enjoy more than the path of getting what you earned or working hard towards eventually getting what you feel you can earn later on. Money to them and to everyone should never be the end-goal or the rational next step to what working hard or persistence should be. It never was and should never be and I think you know that above many others. Right time, right place for the things you talk about and I try to avoid as a main-line of discussion because ultimately, its relevance shouldn't be important yet. This guide is for those looking to get started into the scene and sector, I think highlighting any real likelihood of money is to presume a foreseeable future that isn't realistic or remotely possible yet. While I see your point of view, it's going left-field with ideals. I think you have to consider who the target audience is before claiming something is untrue. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Sorry, I see the typo. Back then, he left VT Gaming and went to Millenium. It's been fixed and clarified, thank you. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
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Fueled
United States1610 Posts
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Chococosby
United States12 Posts
Example: You are starting a team with yourself and a few other GM level players. You receive design work whether it be web design or branding from a designer. If it is of professional level these are $1000+ services. Obviously you will not be able to pay them that sum of money but you could list them as a sponsor for the team. Yes they did not provide you with monetary support but they are providing you with the most important piece of building your team brand which is the one true thing your team owns. The graphic designer will be able to also return the favor by using the piece in his portfolio and linking to your site for people to find out more about the project. Obviously situations like this are not applicable to everyone but the idea is that teams and volunteers need to mutually benefit from the work put in. The cycle has to be in full circle though. Those who have money and influence need to not abuse the volunteers and give out whatever compensation they can. Whether that be through promotion, travel or money. I have seen a lot of organizations not give out any compensation beyond a name accredited to a graphic or article that doesn't even link to anything. Those who do not yet have any money or influence will need the help of good natured volunteers and should be able to build a team to start a project and grow together. Again this has to still be mutually beneficial obviously going into such a venture you know you will not see any immediate compensation but the success you may find should be shared and not only be attributed to an individual person or team. TL;DR Help eachother out we're all pretty much after the same thing | ||
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rUiNati0n
United States1155 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 03 2012 08:35 Chococosby wrote: Looking at this through a graphic designers perspective who is trying to make it in this field I feel that organizations and teams can do more in terms of compensation. But not necessarily monetarily, I feel that teams and designers/writers could be mutually benefited by forming more partnerships. Example: You are starting a team with yourself and a few other GM level players. You receive design work whether it be web design or branding from a designer. If it is of professional level these are $1000+ services. Obviously you will not be able to pay them that sum of money but you could list them as a sponsor for the team. Yes they did not provide you with monetary support but they are providing you with the most important piece of building your team brand which is the one true thing your team owns. The graphic designer will be able to also return the favor by using the piece in his portfolio and linking to your site for people to find out more about the project. Obviously situations like this are not applicable to everyone but the idea is that teams and volunteers need to mutually benefit from the work put in. [b]The cycle has to be in full circle though. Those who have money and influence need to not abuse the volunteers and give out whatever compensation they can. Whether that be through promotion, travel or money. I have seen a lot of organizations not give out any compensation beyond a name accredited to a graphic or article that doesn't even link to anything. [b]Those who do not yet have any money or influence will need the help of good natured volunteers and should be able to build a team to start a project and grow together. Again this has to still be mutually beneficial obviously going into such a venture you know you will not see any immediate compensation but the success you may find should be shared and not only be attributed to an individual person or team. TL;DR Help eachother out we're all pretty much after the same thing Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with the circular effect of helping! Thanks a lot for your idea and view! | ||
toobulkeh
United States8 Posts
Great read Cohen! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have had similar experiences and groups / corporations I've worked for in my experience surrounding Gaming online have been extremely broad and similar. It is very hard to turn a profit at doing something you love (eSports) with minimal control (volunteer). Even as a leader (Administrator, etc...) my experience is that time and investment (monetary) are the only things that cross the boundary from passion to paid. eSports is still a new (90s) scene, and I completely agree that it's not flooded with money. But only our own investment and energy will bring others to it. So keep it up! Don't give up. For transparency, my personal experience has involved: 1. joe.to 2. doormanisgod 3. esfiworld.com 4. infinityseven 5. itb 6. nipper | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:13 toobulkeh wrote: Dan "toobulkeh" Moore from ESFIworld here Great read Cohen! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have had similar experiences and groups / corporations I've worked for in my experience surrounding Gaming online have been extremely broad and similar. It is very hard to turn a profit at doing something you love (eSports) with minimal control (volunteer). Even as a leader (Administrator, etc...) my experience is that time and investment (monetary) are the only things that cross the boundary from passion to paid. eSports is still a new (90s) scene, and I completely agree that it's not flooded with money. But only our own investment and energy will bring others to it. So keep it up! Don't give up. For transparency, my personal experience has involved: 1. joe.to 2. doormanisgod 3. esfiworld.com 4. infinityseven 5. itb 6. nipper I've contemplated posting my expereinces and resume, but I feel that it'd be a conflict of interest. | ||
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