On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
It would be the same for every game that has a sequel released - everyone will switch when tournaments start throwing 100k prize pools for HoTS, which will probably come a year after HoTS is released for a fresh season. Sure you'll have the beta tournaments, but none will compare in prize pool to most tournaments running in WoL. It was the exact same way when BW was released.
EDIT : Honestly I think the OP is a little exaggerate... We have been down this Beta road before and it was delayed countless of times. So to say this is a "HUGE UPDATE" is over the top until we actually receive word from Blizzard it'll be released next week.
On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
It would be the same for every game that has a sequel released - everyone will switch when tournaments start throwing 100k prize pools for HoTS, which will probably come a year after HoTS is released for a fresh season. Sure you'll have the beta tournaments, but none will compare in prize pool to most tournaments running in WoL. It was the exact same way when BW was released.
But don't you think that some companies are going to see the value of a beta tournament?
Imagine the beta came out a week ago, would you rather watch gsl, or 24 code s players playing a beta tounrment for $25k. Sponsors are generally interested in viewership numbers over game quality.
Also what happens when 85% of the sc2 pros (everyone who doesn't have a shot at winning a major tournament within the next few months) start practicing the beta in order to get a head start over everyone else. There is no reason for someone like tlo or incontrol who don't have a very high chance of placing in the big money at a WoL event, to just practice HoTS (both for stream viewership, and to get an advantage over the current top pros.)
People are going to be interested in the beta, and are going to want to see the beta and play the beta, and with all these independant large organisations running their own tournaments with large prize pools, i wouldn't be surprised to see several of them invest in beta tournaments.
On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
Balanced at all levels? If the game is balanced at the very high end of competition it is balanced all around... Your theory is that banelings are op vs marines because lower level players can't micro...
P.S. I would not be surprised if MLG Anaheim attendees were guaranteed a beta key. Blizzard gave BlizzCon attendees Beta keys for WoL, and since this partnership with MLG seems to be what Blizzard is using as "BlizzCon," it would only be normal to hand out beta keys to attendees with the known upcoming Beta.
This could be very well possible. Would be another reason why Adam kept urging people to get their tickets before they are sold out :D
Companies dont run tournaments. Tournament organizers do. Its the tournament organizer that has to show proof of evidence to a potential sponsor what the expected turnout would be for a tournament and how many people will see their logo. HoTS doesn't have the luxury of WoL when it comes to showing hard data that investors like so much. Of course there will be the occasional tournament sponsored by Razor or maybe even Twitch, but to say that everyone will jump on board the beta as soon as it starts is just downright delusional when you factor in how NO ONE will throw in a 50k+ prize pool on a beta.
When beta is released will people watch HoTS streams and such? Of course. But honestly if given the choice Im willing to bet every dime to my name that people would be much more interested in watching streams of players like Idra, DRG, DeMuslim, White-Ra and others tear it up playing WoL.
On April 28 2012 10:44 Ettick wrote: This could be one of the best or one of the worst things to ever happen to sc2 lol
why would it be one of the worst things?
Because seing the changes they want to do, they're going to kill balance dramatically, just to add some more fun for "noobs", so they can play around 3 hours vs AI and then uninstall. And even, they could have brought some good changes to the design of some match ups (PvZ), but it just wont, I just hope they dont rush this and screw our game, spent way too much time on it to give it up just because HotS release would take 8 months of patchs to bring Sc2 back to a normal state. It was long enough seing TvX on Steppes Of War with 50 damage tanks and fast reapers -_-
On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
Balanced at all levels? If the game is balanced at the very high end of competition it is balanced all around... Your theory is that banelings are op vs marines because lower level players can't micro...
I high level players were the only ones buying the game Blizzard would lose a gazillion dollars. It's not much about balance as it's about creating a game that's fun at all levels. If you theoretically can win at lower to mid levels by making one unit because it's just so much better at that skill level then that's a big problem even if it isn't for progamers. So it does have to have a resonable amount of "balance" at all levels to create a game where the casual have a fun experience as well, saying otherwise is just ignorant.
On April 28 2012 10:44 Ettick wrote: This could be one of the best or one of the worst things to ever happen to sc2 lol
why would it be one of the worst things?
Because seing the changes they want to do, they're going to kill balance dramatically, just to add some more fun for "noobs", so they can play around 3 hours vs AI and then uninstall. And even, they could have brought some good changes to the design of some match ups (PvZ), but it just wont, I just hope they dont rush this and screw our game, spent way too much time on it to give it up just because HotS release would take 8 months of patchs to bring Sc2 back to a normal state. It was long enough seing TvX on Steppes Of War with 50 damage tanks and fast reapers -_-
Isn't that the point of a beta? I don't see the need for concern over a beta, instead people should be happy that a beta is coming out so we can see the progress of development and place our input on what is benifical to the game or not. Beta is meant for testing the game, beta is the time where changes happen the most and beta is where we get our say in things heard the loudest. I cannot fathom why some people think that an early beta is detrimental to the game's development, isn't it better the earlier the beta so they have more time to change things?
HotS isn't coming until next year, at least into the competitive scene as the Blizzard World Championships are going to be played in WoL as stated before.
On April 28 2012 15:44 RedDragon571 wrote: Well, I really would hate it if the old guard of WoL (current pro's and semi-pro's) gets all the beta keys, while keys are handed out at random to Masters-bronze league players. It will just give the pro players the head start to maintain their dominance. Personally, I am a masters player who would love to innovate some builds and give some solid feedback in HOTS beta. I think all leagues should be able to give feedback, and blizzard would of course only take the masters league players seriously. I mean, come one most masters players don't understand the game that well, and neither do i. However we don't need gold league players spamming this/that OPOPOPOP. Lower league players can still offer a plethora of other recommendations and feedback. I'd just not prefer it be about balance, lest we get more retard easy to control a move units like collosi.
Honestly, this HotS beta should be open to preorders or just a flat out open beta. I think that all of the master/gm on all servers should get an invite or have some way to get an invite if they want it enough, i just would prefer any situation to the one where the big names get their easy keys and we never see another col.Trimaster, col.Goswser, Thorzain, Feast or any up and coming previously unknown player emerge into the pro scene. (no i dont plan on going pro, but i don't want to lose such a big advantage on ladder vs those who got to play beta longer)
wait, so you want beta keys to be evenly distributed, even though you say lower league players shouldn't make input on balance, and that they should listen to master league players despite they fact that most don't understand the game at all? This is the most confusing post I've ever read.
You can't ignore the feedback of lower players, the game has to be relatively balanced at all levels. Imagine if you have a melee unit at lair tech which has really low movement but large splash damage, against masters players it would be useless, but against a bronze terran who can't stutter step, it would make marines impossible as a unit composition. You have now made tvz unwinnable for anyone who can't stutter step.
Not a very good example, but you get what i mean, the races have to be relatively equal across a range of different skill levels if the game wants a chance of succeeding.
Also, i wonder how this is going to affect the current pro scene, who is going to want to watch gsl or mlg where "old" WoL is being played while there are beta tournaments going on, and hwo many pros are going to just stop playing WoL as soon as the beta starts to try and get an advantage. The competitive scene can't switch over to the beta as it (obviously) isn't going to be balanced enough to play for $40k, but WoL tournaments will feel strange now that HoTS is out, gonna be interesting to see how its tackled.
Balanced at all levels? If the game is balanced at the very high end of competition it is balanced all around... Your theory is that banelings are op vs marines because lower level players can't micro...
I high level players were the only ones buying the game Blizzard would lose a gazillion dollars. It's not much about balance as it's about creating a game that's fun at all levels. If you theoretically can win at lower to mid levels by making one unit because it's just so much better at that skill level then that's a big problem even if it isn't for progamers. So it does have to have a resonable amount of "balance" at all levels to create a game where the casual have a fun experience as well, saying otherwise is just ignorant.
P.S. I would not be surprised if MLG Anaheim attendees were guaranteed a beta key. Blizzard gave BlizzCon attendees Beta keys for WoL, and since this partnership with MLG seems to be what Blizzard is using as "BlizzCon," it would only be normal to hand out beta keys to attendees with the known upcoming Beta.
This could be very well possible. Would be another reason why Adam kept urging people to get their tickets before they are sold out :D
I am pretty sure it is the main reason why he is doing it
On April 28 2012 10:45 mewbert wrote: they are rushing hots too fast
what ?? Its already past a year after sc2 comes out. Its just expansion not full other game , and remmember you have add to this like half year of beta ? ( sc2 beta was around 6 months , or so)
On April 28 2012 21:19 Energizer wrote: Companies dont run tournaments. Tournament organizers do. Its the tournament organizer that has to show proof of evidence to a potential sponsor what the expected turnout would be for a tournament and how many people will see their logo. HoTS doesn't have the luxury of WoL when it comes to showing hard data that investors like so much. Of course there will be the occasional tournament sponsored by Razor or maybe even Twitch, but to say that everyone will jump on board the beta as soon as it starts is just downright delusional when you factor in how NO ONE will throw in a 50k+ prize pool on a beta.
When beta is released will people watch HoTS streams and such? Of course. But honestly if given the choice Im willing to bet every dime to my name that people would be much more interested in watching streams of players like Idra, DRG, DeMuslim, White-Ra and others tear it up playing WoL.
I'll take that bet. Is there an excrow where we can post up our funds?
I hope that by the time the beta is released there has been some progress regarding new Terran units. The last developer update left me somewhat disappointed because of the removal of the Shredder and the state of the Warhound (mini-thor / possibly cut).
I want new units! I don't care about a 'Ludicrous speed' button on the BC or a Reaper that regenerates HP so it can still be useless after the 4-5 minute mark but now with full hp! I want new toys to play with!
(Battle Hellion doesn't count, it was already in WoL before the Blue Flame upgrade was nerfed )
On April 28 2012 21:19 Energizer wrote: Companies dont run tournaments. Tournament organizers do. Its the tournament organizer that has to show proof of evidence to a potential sponsor what the expected turnout would be for a tournament and how many people will see their logo. HoTS doesn't have the luxury of WoL when it comes to showing hard data that investors like so much. Of course there will be the occasional tournament sponsored by Razor or maybe even Twitch, but to say that everyone will jump on board the beta as soon as it starts is just downright delusional when you factor in how NO ONE will throw in a 50k+ prize pool on a beta.
When beta is released will people watch HoTS streams and such? Of course. But honestly if given the choice Im willing to bet every dime to my name that people would be much more interested in watching streams of players like Idra, DRG, DeMuslim, White-Ra and others tear it up playing WoL.
I'll take that bet. Is there an excrow where we can post up our funds?
Actually, the first people to get HotS would have an advantage over the rest.
EPT
)
