I think it's patently obvious to anyone who has seen more than one episode of GSL off the Record that english casters like artosis, tasteless, or wolf are not suited to hosting a talk-show type format. They don't have the experience or the skillset to create a comfortable atmosphere for the guest and the show is punctuated by awkward silences where everyone is looking at each other with the expression of, "well, now what?" This is exacerbated by the fact that the guest needs to go through jon the translator. Having to go through a translator necessarily changes the nature of the show to a question and answer format, where the guest can only respond to the questions coming to him through the translator, instead of having a natural conversation with the hosts.
Even though Mr Chae is not totally fluent in English or even intelligible half the time, Mr Chae is clearly much more experienced at keeping up a patter and flow to the interview. Artosis and co might be very popular english casters, but it's not in their job description to do what Mr Chae is able to do. Furthermore, while MC is generally much more charismatic than other players, not having to go through a translator greatly improves the dynamic between guest and host.
To my knowledge Project A is the only korean content that GOM has subtitled for english audiences before, but I feel that OTR would be greatly improved by having guests and hosts converse in a common language, and by using hosts who are suited to a talk show format.
Poll: Should GSL OTR be in subtitled korean?
Yes! korean audio, english subtitles. (228)
78%
No! keep everything in english. (64)
22%
292 total votes
Your vote: Should GSL OTR be in subtitled korean?
(Vote): Yes! korean audio, english subtitles. (Vote): No! keep everything in english.
Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
I think it's fine how it is. Other than the host banter, all of the questions and answers are in Korean anyway. Perhaps they could have Korean casters for the game though so both audiences can watch them.
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
I'd be fine with that. I agree that the show can be pretty awkward at times. Maybe GOM can just release the time every week where they prerecord the show so foreigners can still play with each week's pro. (plus less time translating= more questions/games played, or maybe they can even add in a segment where the pros analyze their own replays :D)
Also, doing detailed subtitles for an entire show is a ton of work, probably more work than the GOM translators are able to do at the moment. It would be cool, but I don't think it's viable.
Mr Chae and Engine's Konglish done live would be better than Tastosis/Wolf/Jon, no need to subtitle. The conversation would also be much quicker and smoother as they know exactly what they're saying and can just communicate directly in Korean to the progamers about more complicated subjects, and then give us a quick and dirty English translation back. OTR gets really awkward when they start all talking English to each other about something random and ignore the player, which the show is supposed to be about.
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
Half the fun of watching shows like Bnet Attack is where the guest is getting trolled by his pro friends who are smurfing.
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
Bingo. If it wasn't live it wouldn't even be the same show.
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
Bingo. If it wasn't live it wouldn't even be the same show.
SInce Artosis has a Korean wife and Korean baby, I guess he must be trying hard to learn Korean... I wouldn't be surprised if he was semi-fluent in it.
I think both of those choices are poor. I think there needs to be a different translator/John needs to translate more/More translators
John hardly ever translates the small talk to the Korean player, this to me, seems very very awkward and... silly. The player is literally there to answer a few questions, and play games, all else is unknown to him because nothing is translated for him. It's supposed to be a show about the players, it should go both ways - they're providing us great content they should atleast know what the English people are saying about him, 2 ft away from his face.
All Korean with English subtitles would take away the whole 'for the foreigners', "off the record" feel IMO, it's not supposed to be 100% professional, but it would be better than how it is I guess, I really dislike the Guests not knowing what the hosts are saying about him. Jen/Jem or whoever the other translator was, he did a WAY better job, I feel like John is too cocky/is too liked. (I love John, but just saying)
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
Bingo. If it wasn't live it wouldn't even be the same show.
It'd be live, just not for foreigners.
The korean scene already knows the korean players though, the show would be useless for them. It'd be like having a show where TLO talks about being tlo and having a beard, we don't care, because we ALL ALREADY KNOW ABOUT HIM.
I agree that korean would be better for an interview. However, half of the point of the show is the games with the NA fanbase, and the fan-submitted questions. Those segments are harder/impossible if it's prerecorded and subtitled ahead of time.
Mr. Chae also said that subtitling things in general takes a lot of time, and therefore money, and is very unlikely to ever happen at the GSL for anything.
On April 15 2012 05:22 SiroKO wrote: SInce Artosis has a Korean wife and Korean baby, I guess he must be trying hard to learn Korean... I wouldn't be surprised if he was semi-fluent in it.
Korean wife? He doesn't have a korean wife I'm pretty sure.
On April 15 2012 05:22 SiroKO wrote: SInce Artosis has a Korean wife and Korean baby, I guess he must be trying hard to learn Korean... I wouldn't be surprised if he was semi-fluent in it.
Err. his girlfriend is white dude. They just live in Korea.
On topic: making it like one of those super hyper Asian variety shows would make it hilarious. Bnet attack segment can be prerecorded just by letting people know what times to do it in.
They should do it with chae and engine speaking english be amazing, tasteless,artosis,wolf aren't no where near skilled enough to host a show like that
Koreans can't do subtitles. They would just skip half of the conversation, add silly sound effects etc. We've all seen that in the Project A series with Yellow.
On April 15 2012 05:22 SiroKO wrote: SInce Artosis has a Korean wife and Korean baby, I guess he must be trying hard to learn Korean... I wouldn't be surprised if he was semi-fluent in it.
do you just assume he married a korean woman because he lives in korea? o.O
I think it's been suggested, but I feel that at the very least it should be konglish... The hosts could speak in konglish for foreign audiences then cut into korean on the fly for the players. I definitely feel like as great as casters Artosis and Wolf and company might be, they're not used to being hosts or interviewers (while as Rauk mentioned, Engine and Chae are).
So tl;dr mini paragraph: Chae + Engine - konglish a possibility for people who can't read or refuse not-live content (<= Subtitles would be added to restream)
They are doing the show for us primarily which is quite obvious by the English basis of the show. There is no reason you would have a cast going to a primarily English speaking audience not be in English. I enjoy watching Tastless, Artosis, and Wolf and think they do a good job with it. I don't want some korean subtitles for it. Think it is a bit of a ridiculous idea tbh.
On April 15 2012 05:07 rauk wrote: I think it's patently obvious to anyone who has seen more than one episode of GSL off the Record that english casters like artosis, tasteless, or wolf are not suited to hosting a talk-show type format.
On April 15 2012 05:07 rauk wrote: I think it's patently obvious to anyone who has seen more than one episode of GSL off the Record that english casters like artosis, tasteless, or wolf are not suited to hosting a talk-show type format.
What? I did not feel that way all.
Well, you're definitely in the minority going by the poll. I enjoy OTR but it's definitely very stilted with the lack of interaction the hosts can have with the players.
On April 15 2012 05:07 rauk wrote: I think it's patently obvious to anyone who has seen more than one episode of GSL off the Record that english casters like artosis, tasteless, or wolf are not suited to hosting a talk-show type format.
What? I did not feel that way all.
Well, you're definitely in the minority going by the poll. I enjoy OTR but it's definitely very stilted with the lack of interaction the hosts can have with the players.
And what about the lack of interaction the Korean hosts would have with us in the reverse? I like being able to minimize it and hear whats going on sometimes too.
Mr Chae is pretty damn busy, I don't think it's a viable alternative to have him run a talk show in addition to all the other stuff he does. I already find it pretty great and incredible that they do the pre-show in the first place.
Yes, I also think the hosts don't work too well in the format (imho, Moletrap did the best job somehow) and I don't really bother to watch it anymore since it's on so early, but for most people it's better than nothing, so we'll have to take what we can get.
I haven't though about this, and I wonder why Of course, this wouldn't solve world hunger (meaning that it might not be the perfect way) but it should be more fun. I LOVE <3<3 Tastosis and Wolf (I really do love Wolf) but, as stated, they aren't super-good at interviewing in a show like OTR, and I think that Mr. Chae and Engine would actually be better suited for this type of job.
The idea behind the show is to have korean pros interract with their foreign fans. There are plenty of other interviews and shows that go on where everything is in korean and the translations boil down to "I just want to show good games" or "my opponent played well, he is a good player" and of course the famous "I like my foreign fans! Please cheer for me!"
While I don't think this is by any means a bad thing, it is, however, what we're going to get in Korean or otherwise. I think the pros seem to have a good time interracting with Foreigners and some of them have seemed to have a good time speaking in english as well, and feel that there is absolutely no reason to change the format of the show because it's a little awkward at times. To be honest, I'd never watch the show if it was in Korean with English subtitles.
All boils down to there being plenty of other options for people who speak Korean, and if you don't speak Korean these are better options for you to try and get translated in mass. Leave this option for Korean pros to do something they don't do otherwise.
And to be honest, if we want to bring the best content to everyone we need to do things like this. We need to bring Korea to Foreigners, and we need to bring Foreigners to Korea. And I don't just mean to live. GOM should be doing this same thing for their Korean watchers with the Foreigners in Korea currently.
On April 15 2012 09:24 Noobity wrote: And to be honest, if we want to bring the best content to everyone we need to do things like this. We need to bring Korea to Foreigners, and we need to bring Foreigners to Korea. And I don't just mean to live. GOM should be doing this same thing for their Korean watchers with the Foreigners in Korea currently.
Can you imagine a pro foreigner being killed off on camera by an unknown great korean? Cause with the amount of talent that is there you will have that happen.
On April 15 2012 09:24 Noobity wrote: While I don't think this is by any means a bad thing, it is, however, what we're going to get in Korean or otherwise. I think the pros seem to have a good time interracting with Foreigners and some of them have seemed to have a good time speaking in english as well, and feel that there is absolutely no reason to change the format of the show because it's a little awkward at times. To be honest, I'd never watch the show if it was in Korean with English subtitles.
All boils down to there being plenty of other options for people who speak Korean, and if you don't speak Korean these are better options for you to try and get translated in mass. Leave this option for Korean pros to do something they don't do otherwise.
you've clearly never watched any asian variety show ever. hosts aren't afraid to ask irreverent questions or be silly. when you watch OTR in english you're just seeing an extremely filtered version of a pro's true personality that's reduced to "answer this question."
There are plenty of other interviews and shows that go on where everything is in korean and the translations boil down to "I just want to show good games" or "my opponent played well, he is a good player" and of course the famous "I like my foreign fans! Please cheer for me!"
that's false. have you ever seen MC's guest appearance with that female korean internet host? they talked in depth about strategy, other players, and you also saw MC's infamous zealot dance. that stuff never happens with any english interviewer, ever.
how about group selections? those are conducted in korean, and are always filled with trashtalk. in like 10 years of osl/msl group selections being manner is far less common than being bm.
Anyone ever try learning Korean? The Korean alphabet is actually very easy to learn. After a few hours or at most 1 day almost everyone will be able to read Korean. Now what those words actually mean is a more time consuming matter.
If there's one thing that could be changed... better subs and better timings... some fansubs have good/better translations/better timings than the official stuff and they aren't paid to do it...
Personally I think that Artosis, Tasteless and Wolf are doing a fantastic job. It's called "Off The Record". It's not supposed to be a formal, professional interview. It's a show designed to show a foreign audience a more personal and fun side of Korean players. Having it in Korean with Korean interviewers completely defeats the purpose.
On April 15 2012 16:40 naggerNZ wrote: Personally I think that Artosis, Tasteless and Wolf are doing a fantastic job. It's called "Off The Record". It's not supposed to be a formal, professional interview. It's a show designed to show a foreign audience a more personal and fun side of Korean players. Having it in Korean with Korean interviewers completely defeats the purpose.
Yeah, the hangup of having to translate really kills the flow in what's supposed to be a pretty back-and-forth, comedic show. As long as they subtitle it well (which they haven't done in the past) I'm all for letting the Korean hosts take over.
On April 15 2012 05:10 Verator wrote: Its a live show, they can't make it subtitled without pre-recording, and therefore completely removing the whole part of the show where korean players play with foreigners.
Bingo. If it wasn't live it wouldn't even be the same show.
It'd be live, just not for foreigners.
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this a show for the foreigners? Wouldn't that kinda kill the whole point?
Yeah having to go through a translator makes it not flow as well. But I much prefer it to be live. I have greatly enjoyed the show in its current format and see no need for change.
The reason for the silences is because they are picking questions on the spot live. They don't have questions "prepared." I thought that was obvious? Normal talk shows are all scripted... I think it's fine the way it is!
EPT
