If we keep the Thor, we are currently experimenting with an anti-air spider mine that would give the terrans a way to get some factory-built anti-air into small places that a Thor has trouble reaching (like near your minerals). Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question.
On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote: starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2.
This has opened my eyes. Best post in this thread. Agree 100%
You don't need a post to open your eyes. After I watched several games of competitive BW, even if I was a SC2 player and started with SC2, I already knew something was wrong and irreversible within the game design. Also this video shows it
we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
This is what I meant by having my eyes opened. Yes I realised long time ago something was off especially compared to BW but somehow seeing it written down and explained so simply made it so much more clearer and obvious
It's nice and all that you don't like sc2, but it is a really good game, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't. There are people who don't like bw for whatever reason and think it is worse, it's all opinion. It obviously is a good esport if people think it is, people don't lie to themselves on what they enjoy. There are people who enjoy watching and playing sc2, and some only enjoy watching, they obviously enjoy it as why would you force yourself to watch something you don't like or think is mediocre as you seem to think?
I am fine with bw players not liking sc2, I love both but it is super annoying to see you guys just rip on sc2 constantly and then complain when some people go to the bw forum and say something you disagree with when you do the same thing.
What do you think of my challenge? Do you think SC2 would have even a 1/10th the success had it not been a blizzard released sequel to a successful gaming franchise? Do you think the gameplay alone in sc2 could carry it to such heights? If this was StarCommander 2: Next gen Esports RTS, would anyone have cared about it? I don't think so.. and I think anyone being honest with themself would say the same.
I'm a pretty big BW apologist, but I don't think I agree with this. As much as I have grown to dislike what SC2 is, I can't think of a better RTS released in the last 5 years or so. Maybe DoW? I've never played it, but even that is pushing back to 2004. Maybe it wouldn't be as big without SC as it's title, but I think it blows its competition out of the water. Unfortunately, that's not to hard with C&C4 and SupCom2...
Anyways, this line of discussion is probably going to drag the discussion down and away from the actual Update.
Good post. People need to realize that SC2 is the best RTS since BW(imo), and even though it isn't as good as BW, it is still a good game. Not a great one, but still very good.
On April 12 2012 04:13 413X wrote: I accually get quite furious reading this. How long has the game been out now? 2 years if we count beta. What the hell have they been doing meanwhile? They literally came up with their ideas, made them, showed them to everyone then trashed most of them. Doesn't these guys have a crew that test units?
Their game design leader should be fired. Most of the units already in such a poor state in game design. You know this, I know this. If you don't, look at the voidray. It was suppose to be a ship that charge their weapon over time to get better but it's too hard to balance that so they made it a 2 stage weapon with 3 step animation. Why not rework the entire unit. I could go on a huge rant but choose not too because my arguement is this; They will now make more and new units. Try them, probably release whatever shit they come up with as the singel player is done. And we are then stuck with these units and left with patching over a year, AGAIN to accually make the game viable.
like him or hate him firing Dustin Browder would most likely make heart of the swarm a complete mess and it may not come for another 2 years
think before you speak
name one game that the lead designer gets fired and doesnt completely fall to crap
Hmm not sure how I feel about this yet. I think having the carrier out still stings too much. They want a long-range ground and air siege type unit. That IS what the carrier is supposed to be! Fix it and put it back into the game. Zerg just sounds like they are getting scarier and scarier (and more gimmicky)
They still need to open up the game for micro, forcefields aren't that bad with massive units, but fungal as it is needs to go, same for snipe and possibly emp. Those abilities leave very little to the other side, either you use them optimally and the other guy is screwed or you don't. They also need more interesting air unit behavior beyond just dps and range.
On April 12 2012 03:11 densha wrote: I'm concerned that the Viper's "blind" spell is pointless.
It would have been very helpful to break entrenched positions and to help Z engage Protoss armies. Now that it only works on bio units I don't see the point - wouldn't you rather have infestors against bio?
Doesn't it make Terran bio somewhat... worthless? It's a mass optical flare right?
From my understanding, it was both sight and firing range. Optical Flare was just sight I think. If it is what I thought it to be, I don't really see that going into release. It makes any ranged unit that gets hit by it essentially useless, and Protoss needs that range to be able to fight Zerg.
It creates a cloud that you can just move out of...it's not permanent. See disruption web. It also only affects bio, so Protoss will be unaffected except for the case of high templar underneath the cloud.
LOL so it really is Dark Swarm but range reduced to 1 instead of 0? GG Blizzard the jig is up
No, it's not Dark Swarm. Dark Swarm makes units under the swarm immune to ranged attacks, but vulnerable to splash damage. Like I said, see Disruption Web.
I don't personally see a huge difference, if say, a Terran player had Dark Swarm or this new spell cast on their bio army, the only difference is that Terran wouldn't be able to fire until within 1 range instead of being completely negated. That's pretty ridiculous when combined with recharging energy from minerals and fungals from Infestors.
Zergs cast Dark Swarm over their own melee units so they don't take ranged damage. Protoss cast disruption web over enemy units so they can't fire.
This new spell is neither. Seems like they want to see more positioning micro rather than Terrans split their Marines all the way back to their base.
Man I have to stop coming into these qq threads. This update got me excited but there's so much bitching in this thread that it brought me down again. Jesus, why do you people play this game if you hate it so much? Sigh.
Thank god they took out the replicator and the shredded. Those were terrible designs from the get go.
So now the new stuff is an extremely long range missile? So this thing will be like a scan but kill stuff? Will the next terran harrassment be 'scan, shoot, boom'? Because I'd take Shredder harass over that any time.
Glad they changed the Tempest as well, but I don't see the point of a long range atg and ata unit if we already have a carrier which isn't buffed.
The viper is still interesting though. Now it has defiler esque devouring as well, which will make up for the huge gas cost that was announced in the alpha at blizzcon. And new nydus options, woo!
The tempest was a powerful splash anti-air capital ship at BlizzCon. With the addition of the range upgrade on phoenix in Wings of Liberty we no longer feel like a splash anti-air weapon is necessary on the protoss, but we would still like to give the protoss some additional firepower in the air. The tempest is currently a very long-ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets. This gives the protoss army some real reach to force an engagement on their terms in the end-game.
The tempest is sounding more and more like the condor from shattered galaxy (long range, slowish, but can line up for an insane aoe burst)
This is why their games are better than everyone elses! They don't stop until the have the perfect set of units!
Keeping the overseer (By far the most important mention in this blog!!!!), changing the warhound, removing the shredder and replicant, playing around with the nydus, making the viper pure caster....
All these things are fffffffffffffffffffff brilliant! ;D
This is pretty good news. I am really curious to see what they are going to do with the Tempest, which now seems like it is going to be a flying Colossus (both massive, both siege units). I hope that they change the Colossus if the Tempest is going to become a siege unit.
I am very happy that the Replicant and Shredder are being removed. Both of those units seemed rather gimmicky.
I still want them to replace the Swarm Host with the Lurker. The Lurker was the shit, my favorite BW unit by far.
I think that Abduct needs to be changed with something else (Plague?). Abduct seems gimmicky, like you can just target the most powerful unit in an enemy army and kill it almost immediately. Then again, Plague and Fungal Growth overlap (both deal damage over time, instant cast, etc).
Blizzard's idea to have Nydus Networks spawn different types of Nydus Worms is brilliant, I'd love to see something like that in HotS!
Recall on the Nexus is a very bad idea. If the Protoss all-ins, he should not have a get-out-of-jail-free card.
as a zerg play, glad the overseer is back. would be very stupid w/o it... i hope they -change the look of the warhound/get rid of it -change the look of the broods the swarm host makes -put in carrier with micro abilities
I really like the response blizzard is taking from the community along the lines with not only flexing around the possibilities of different unit compositions, i really do have faith for blizzard, and i know they are trying their damned hardest to give their fans another bw style starcraft mid - late game. whatever path they take nonetheless it will be an awesome game i will most likely buy
They don't add some of the stuff that looked totally retarded in the first place. They keep some stuff that looked totally retarded in the first place (swarm host...) They even add stuff that sounds totally retarded (new carrier, wtf?.. long range missile WTF?). They still keep stuff that is and was retarded since 1.0 and earlyer (colossus most of all...).