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On April 12 2012 02:39 mister.bubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:26 Fishriot wrote:
Honestly, I think blizzard needs to stop being so "proud" and just take some ideas from BW that worked well. Honestly I think a mass exodus back to BW is in order but I am just biased because I suck so bad at BW and want there to be more people on my level. I think the units removed are good so far. As a spectator I feel that the armies in SC2 are too mobile. In BW in every matchup at almost any point there was usually one player who would controll the map while the other did their best to hold on, you never saw two blobs of units run into each other, maybe sometimes n ZvP but it was usually better for the Zerg to play evasivly. Protoss in SC2 is so ridiculously mobile due to their warpgate abillity and generally fast move speed that it is hard to watch. Terran also moves really fast so that matchup is really silly. Each race should have goals other than "get a big army and go kill his big army" and I think they are on their way to that.
You must not have ever tried to break a good Terran siege line as Protoss.
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Jesus, don't fucking keep the damn thor! And the Nexus recall will be really overpowerd. If that goes thro I will switch to P
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On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote:
starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2.
BW is still very playable go back and play that. There is no way BW maniacs would have been satisfied with anything new that's why they are BW maniacs.
SC2 has been great fun to play and watch for me and I'm incredibly excited to see where HotS takes the game. It's not even in beta yet so there is very little to be gained from speculation and balance discussion, it's not going to be right.
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So lets be honest blizzard .. all your original ideas sucks so you are back tracking and trying to figure something out very fast before the launch of the game... GOT YA :D
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Hot damn. So everyone who was shitting their pants over the Blizzcon units were overreacting? No way. It's almost like they were telling us it was Pre-Beta and "things will change" for a reason.
Good changes though! A Protoss siege tank sounds infinitely interesting. And two caster units for the Zerg (assuming the casters are any good) makes me really excited.
I was wondering how long it would take for the BW fans to come in and muck up the thread. Luckily, there were at least two on page 12 when I posted! They just can't resist coming in and "bragging" about how good their game is.
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These changes actually sound logical. I have a little more hope now for the expansion!
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They removed the most awesome unit idea ever? No idea what they were thinking
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On April 12 2012 02:41 oberhofer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:31 Lonyo wrote:On April 12 2012 02:27 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Ah jesus, they are thinking about stuff in completely the wrong way.
Air spider mine? Really? Keeping in the mass recall from nexus if you make a mistake... wow. The nexus recall one is ridiculous imo. Look, Forcefielding EVERY zerg unit wasn't enough. When protoss ran out of FF, their forces were potentially exposed, if there was any zerg army left. Now it will be fine, they can make mass sentries, forcefield, then recall back home and be 100% unscathed with no worries. Gonna make for awesome games. I could well imagine there being a varying energy cost depending on the amount of supply being recalled. Or a very small area of recall-effect, or a limited unit amount, or no massive units, etc.. there are quite a number of ways to restrict recall abuse in the lategame. I see your point though.
Never ever losing your sentry because you can't always recall themsound silly tho.
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Canada11380 Posts
Some good changes I guess. But they really need to start cutting some of the boring A move units and replacing them with units that get night and day better results by microing them... collosus, I'm looking at you.
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I don't see how Mass Recall from any Nexus can be balanced...
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On April 12 2012 02:45 Mauldo wrote:
Hot damn. So everyone who was shitting their pants over the Blizzcon units were overreacting? No way. It's almost like they were telling us it was Pre-Beta and "things will change" for a reason.
Good changes though! A Protoss siege tank sounds infinitely interesting. And two caster units for the Zerg (assuming the casters are any good) makes me really excited.
I was wondering how long it would take for the BW fans to come in and muck up the thread. Luckily, there were at least two on page 12 when I posted! They just can't resist coming in and "bragging" about how good their game is.
What BW fans are you talking about? Most people who know what is good for SC2 ARE the BW fans.
Also, a Protoss siege tank? There's a unit that starts with C and ends with S that fills the same role as a siege tank for Protoss already, why another?
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On April 12 2012 02:45 Mauldo wrote:
Hot damn. So everyone who was shitting their pants over the Blizzcon units were overreacting? No way. It's almost like they were telling us it was Pre-Beta and "things will change" for a reason.
Good changes though! A Protoss siege tank sounds infinitely interesting. And two caster units for the Zerg (assuming the casters are any good) makes me really excited.
I was wondering how long it would take for the BW fans to come in and muck up the thread. Luckily, there were at least two on page 12 when I posted! They just can't resist coming in and "bragging" about how good their game is.
the majority of changes are bw units/abilities tweaked and become worse, lol
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On April 12 2012 02:41 oberhofer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:31 Lonyo wrote:On April 12 2012 02:27 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Ah jesus, they are thinking about stuff in completely the wrong way.
Air spider mine? Really? Keeping in the mass recall from nexus if you make a mistake... wow. The nexus recall one is ridiculous imo. Look, Forcefielding EVERY zerg unit wasn't enough. When protoss ran out of FF, their forces were potentially exposed, if there was any zerg army left. Now it will be fine, they can make mass sentries, forcefield, then recall back home and be 100% unscathed with no worries. Gonna make for awesome games. I could well imagine there being a varying energy cost depending on the amount of supply being recalled. Or a very small area of recall-effect, or a limited unit amount, or no massive units, etc.. there are quite a number of ways to restrict recall abuse in the lategame. I see your point though.
I agree; I think it could be managed so that the zip-home recall isn't game-breaking. I think their rationale for having more recall potential is because Protoss often suffers greatly from its lack of mobility.
Plus, I do think players are getting better with staying on top of their chrono boosts, and so this shouldn't really be a big deal until late in the game (where the Protoss player doesn't have many sentries anyway, and it would be nice to have the possibility of running away if necessary, as Zerg and Terran armies are usually faster).
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Shredder  Will be missed
I dunno how they're going to balance the game for protoss with an additional siege unit and recall :|
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It does seem bliz is going in the right direction even if some of the ideas thrown out do seem a little stupid (terran long range missile to help vs tanks, why not just add something to help cover the distance between tanks that has to be timed well. Like a aoe spell that reduces splash damage in the target area, raven spell or something similar. That would be what I would try first before resorting to making even longer range stuff. Might hurt P in TvP but P can just move back and colosus are back to full effectiveness and they could feedback the ravens, might make a nice new dynamic in the match up but who knows thats just the kind of idea I would like to see in (balance not really thought out fully)) But other than that idea things do seem to be moving in the right direction even if they do need to do a lot more work on the units.
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On April 12 2012 02:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:41 oberhofer wrote:On April 12 2012 02:31 Lonyo wrote:On April 12 2012 02:27 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Ah jesus, they are thinking about stuff in completely the wrong way.
Air spider mine? Really? Keeping in the mass recall from nexus if you make a mistake... wow. The nexus recall one is ridiculous imo. Look, Forcefielding EVERY zerg unit wasn't enough. When protoss ran out of FF, their forces were potentially exposed, if there was any zerg army left. Now it will be fine, they can make mass sentries, forcefield, then recall back home and be 100% unscathed with no worries. Gonna make for awesome games. I could well imagine there being a varying energy cost depending on the amount of supply being recalled. Or a very small area of recall-effect, or a limited unit amount, or no massive units, etc.. there are quite a number of ways to restrict recall abuse in the lategame. I see your point though. I agree; I think it could be managed so that the zip-home recall isn't game-breaking. I think their rationale for having more recall potential is because Protoss often suffers greatly from its lack of mobility. Plus, I do think players are getting better with staying on top of their chrono boosts, and so this shouldn't really be a big deal until late in the game (where the Protoss player doesn't have many sentries anyway, and it would be nice to have the possibility of running away if necessary, as Zerg and Terran armies are usually faster).
More than half proplayer still have almost 100 energy on their nexus very early into the game. There isn't just enough stuff to chrono after 7 or 8min. ;;
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Canada11380 Posts
Viper eating minerals for energy is kinda awkward. It might work, but not in the middle of combat unless you are fighting right on top of an expansion.
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'extremely long range cannon' kinda scares me. Sounds like super weapons in C&C Generals or something.
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On April 12 2012 02:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:41 oberhofer wrote:On April 12 2012 02:31 Lonyo wrote:On April 12 2012 02:27 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Ah jesus, they are thinking about stuff in completely the wrong way.
Air spider mine? Really? Keeping in the mass recall from nexus if you make a mistake... wow. The nexus recall one is ridiculous imo. Look, Forcefielding EVERY zerg unit wasn't enough. When protoss ran out of FF, their forces were potentially exposed, if there was any zerg army left. Now it will be fine, they can make mass sentries, forcefield, then recall back home and be 100% unscathed with no worries. Gonna make for awesome games. I could well imagine there being a varying energy cost depending on the amount of supply being recalled. Or a very small area of recall-effect, or a limited unit amount, or no massive units, etc.. there are quite a number of ways to restrict recall abuse in the lategame. I see your point though. I agree; I think it could be managed so that the zip-home recall isn't game-breaking. I think their rationale for having more recall potential is because Protoss often suffers greatly from its lack of mobility. Plus, I do think players are getting better with staying on top of their chrono boosts, and so this shouldn't really be a big deal until late in the game (where the Protoss player doesn't have many sentries anyway, and it would be nice to have the possibility of running away if necessary, as Zerg and Terran armies are usually faster).
The deathball SHOULD suffer a lack of mobility. It has to have a weakness. Broodlords are slow, they shouldn't get a speed upgrade just because they lack mobility.
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We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
You mean like a nuclear missile?
The tempest is currently a very long-ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets. This gives the protoss army some real reach to force an engagement on their terms in the end-game.
You mean like a colossus?
One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
You mean like a mothership?
Some of the things they're talking about seem like they can be created by merely tweaking already existing things, instead of going through all this trouble and time to create entirely new things. I hope the new things are awesome, but they won't be if half of them turn out to be virtual reskins of what we already have.
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EPT
