EPTI think the total amount of gas is something that can be adjusted over time through balancing. Right now it's hard to say how effective it would be. Sticking to 2500 gas might be just fine, or 2000 might be better. It does seem like, in SC2 right now, gas geysers last a very long time before being depleted, so I wouldn't mind it lower.
Breadth of Gameplay in SC2 - Page 51
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
I think the total amount of gas is something that can be adjusted over time through balancing. Right now it's hard to say how effective it would be. Sticking to 2500 gas might be just fine, or 2000 might be better. It does seem like, in SC2 right now, gas geysers last a very long time before being depleted, so I wouldn't mind it lower. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
1) Casters. I suggest day[9] and a pro who's proven good at casting before. DeMuslim, perhaps. 2) Players. We need mid-level pros who emphasize micro. HuK can't afford to practice a game he's not playing, but for some cash, there are other players who can. Micro focused players because they'll be more comfortable, and be able to show off a better performance, in the now micro-oriented game. TLO is a perfect choice. Perhaps TLO vs WhiteRa? 3)Map pool. Because we'll be introducing a new gameplay to the players, I suggest small map pool that consists of ladder maps. Using maps they are already familiar with helps them focus on the gameplay, the part we want to shine. A small pool allows them to practice more effectively with less time invested, keeping it easier to attract players and, again, allowing them to focus on gameplay changes. 4) Showmatch length. A showmatch of 5 or 7 will be best. I think 5, where all 5 games are played. This makes it easy for the viewer to watch the whole series, maximizing our audience, while having enough matches to really show off the changes in gameplay in several circumstances. If we go for 5, I suggest a map pool of 3-4. 5)Mineral/Gas count. We need to decide what exactly we're going, and keep it consistent across all the maps. I support 6m2lyg or 6m2g. | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
I don't think converting ladder maps for this would be a very good idea, I think there's enough interest among map makers to make an entirely new pool. It does have benefits when it comes to making it easier for players to practice, though, so for the time being it might be good to select around 5 currently mainstream maps which would make the best conversions, if there was going to be some kind of showmatch or something. | ||
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GPThunder
Canada53 Posts
3)Map pool. Because we'll be introducing a new gameplay to the players, I suggest small map pool that consists of ladder maps. Using maps they are already familiar with helps them focus on the gameplay, the part we want to shine. A small pool allows them to practice more effectively with less time invested, keeping it easier to attract players and, again, allowing them to focus on gameplay changes. I am not sure that would work for displaying the way the games will play out. The ladder maps imo are too spread apart between bases/too few as well. I have no idea how to even use the map editor and I have no idea how long Barrin spent creating devolution, but if a couple of more maps like that could make it into a 6m pool, then the idea might work better. I'd rather see a bo5 on devolution then use the ladder maps. I love 6m, I am not sure I even want to play standard ladder anymore lol. Just saw new map made http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322193 | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
I'm persuaded, if we have good 6m2g maps, we should absolutely use those. But if we do, the map pool should not be more than 3. Remember, we're asking them to amost play a whole new game here. Let's limit the unfamiliarity. | ||
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DoDonPachi
Canada69 Posts
I mean you can adjust you're gaz income, but other than this versatibility, i don't see the clear advantage. The 3 previous page, Barrin become depressed since hyg deplete faster than a normal gas, suggest to modify the AI of the worker, wake up and realize it was stupid, want to keep the 2 gaz mechanic so he invent the term low yield geyser, etc etc. I feel kinda lost in the reasoning, can someone explain me : Why 2g is better Why hyg is not as good as what we used to think What is a low yield geyser other related thing plz and thank you in advance | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:59 FoxyMayhem wrote: I really think 1 gas gyser is an inferior mechanic to having 2. If we go the 6m style, I beg you guys to keep it 2 gas, even if they are edited to return 3 gas per trip instead of 4. It provides more interesting opportunities for deception, keeps gas steals in check, and has greater implications for scouting. Think of what a large role "taking your second gas" has in the early game of modern starcraft. That would all be lost. Overall, it's just more dynamic. Is there any argument against keeping the two gyser mechanic? On March 21 2012 08:07 FoxyMayhem wrote: Barrin, have you considered 6m2g with gysers that only return 3 gas per trip? It's an exact 25% reduction in income, matching the mineral reduction. The 2g mechanic is so dynamic. Think of how important the timing is on when one "takes their second gas". It's more interesting for scouting, more interesting for viewers, more dynamic for gameplay, and superior in every way I can think of. It also keeps gas steals in check. There is so much to be lost here by abandoning the 2 gas mechanic, and nothing to be gained but making things simpler, aka lowering the skill requirement. 1 gas is a step in the wrong direction. What argument it there for it? A "low yield gas geyser" is the geyser mentioned returns 3 gas instead of 4. He did not get depressed, nor was it about gas at all, it was about minerals. He thought for a moment of switching the 6m idea for the solution brood war used for the problem, which is a soft cap resource collection rate. After some discussion, we decided that idea had too many bad points, and decided to continue pushing for 6m. The 1 gas or 2 question was an entirely different discussion. So what we need right now is 3 good 6m2g maps. Mapmakers ahoy! | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Outcome ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UZlew.jpg) | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
Is the middle too far open? | ||
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Omegalisk
United States337 Posts
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VictorJones
United States235 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On March 21 2012 12:52 Barrin wrote: How big? seems huge :D which is maybe only a tad bigger than it should be ^^ CS is a tad high, this is only a problem cuz there is such a big unpathable line disconnecting 2(4) bases from the center of the map which hinders movement from the center to those areas. Gfire definitely free to publish 6m/7m tag maps at will :D So now the standard of this is now shifting towards 6m2lyg? What's the problem with the high yield geyser? | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
I was wondering about your opinion on depleted geysers. Should they still produce a little gas like in BW. Big part of the balance in SC2 revolves around gas intensive units. My fear is that ultra late game Terra becomes rather strong versus Protoss and Zerg who need alot of gas to deal with the MM of Terran. Of coarse this is very hard to test. But, I was wondering your thoughts. | ||
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OldManSenex
United States130 Posts
In this cast I worked hard to incorporate all the great advice I've been getting from the folks in this tread and on youtube, and I want to say thanks so much, you guys are the best. I axed every possible pause sound like "Aah" and "Umm" that had been dominating my earlier casts, and with some more practice I think I'll be able to offer a smooth, enjoyable casting experience. Any advice and criticism is welcome. Here's the new game: And if you enjoyed that cast check out my channel for even more games: www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
I will post this is the mapping forum and we can move any discussion there. @OldManSenex: I've been watching your games and it's really cool, I'm interested to check out that PvP. It would be cool if you could do some 6m2g now, I guess. Thanks for casting the games. (: | ||
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KJSharp
United States84 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On March 21 2012 11:24 FoxyMayhem wrote: 2) Players. We need mid-level pros who emphasize micro. HuK can't afford to practice a game he's not playing, but for some cash, there are other players who can. Micro focused players because they'll be more comfortable, and be able to show off a better performance, in the now micro-oriented game. TLO is a perfect choice. Perhaps TLO vs WhiteRa? Grubby vs Moon plz :D The former WC3 pro's should love these maps. | ||
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