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On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min.
I've tried to play TvP aggressively.
I'll get a lucky drop here and there and 2 rax is okay but you can only do it so many times before it gets stale.
I feel like you're too confined when you play Terran.
"do this strategy or you lose etc etc etc"
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I think people just cant handle the multitasking / macro / micro of terran and dont understand the matchups very well or are just thinking wow this MU is IMBA so im going to switch races. Theres also the fact that terran has been nerfed alot more then any other race. If you wanna really investigate go to the battlenet forums hehehehe.
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On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included.
Then why is your thread titled "Where did all the terran's go?"? If the main point of your post is that you dislike PvT and find it to be stale, and you title the tread "Where did all the terrans go?"; what else do you expect people to infer from that? The majority of your thread is focused on that specific match up and nothing else.
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On March 11 2012 12:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Then why is your thread titled "Where did all the terran's go?"? If the main point of your post is that you dislike PvT and find it to be stale, and you title the tread "Where did all the terrans go?"; what else do you expect people to infer from that? The majority of your thread is focused on that specific match up and nothing else.
I simply stated my own reason for playing less, I did not presume to think that I knew why the number of Terrans has dwindled, thus making this topic in the first place.
The root of this whole thread for me was to find out why other people thought less people play Terran now.
If the General consensus is TvP then that's what it is.
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My statistics for all the games I've play in march at low masters NA (76 games):
TvZ: 33 (12-21)
TvP: 25 (18-7)
TvT: 18 (10-8)
Z: 43.4%
P: 32.9%
T: 23.7%
My TvZ is so Bad TT
I don't know why people seeM to be stopping playing terran, I can't guess a decision calculus for a decision I did not make. However, I assume people are having trouble in the non-mirrors and find TvT frustrating. I'M finding TvZ frustrating right now but I assume that will change shortly seeing as I'M working Really hard on it...
If TvX is imbalanced then Blizzard will eventually fix it, I feel like you should still play because it'S sort of like a resistance training where you Practice in an unfavorable environment so when it evens out it'S easier. I'M not saying that'S how it is, but if that is how it is then that'S how I'd view it.
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On March 11 2012 12:42 Zarahtra wrote:TvP seems to be the most common MU for me mid master on NA. I personally think for bad players like myself, it's just a bit disheartening to get all these nerfs in a row, especially when you aren't even able to be "op" before them, just because these sick skilled koreans can use the race so well, it keeps making your gameplay harder(as if it wasn't hard before them, assuming only decent micro). As a terran, the only reason I've not changed yet, is that I feel TvT is the least volatile mirror MU, where the best player wins, you can make comebacks and in general I just find it the most interesting. Edit: Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:41 Noocta wrote:On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min. Don't know man. I keep saying the same thing to myself to justify me opening 2rax TvP but with every pro doing 1rax FE i feel guilty as fuck. Well personally I just say 2 rax is pretty much dead. I feel being aggressive with stim and medivacs is where it is at. You can be a lot more relentless and if you find an opening, you can just crush face. Atleast at my skill level, 2 rax just doesn't work anymore(this is assuming you don't atleast pull like half your scvs)
I'm talking about 2rax reactor first in case. The one where you often don't even bring SCV.
Depend on the map, but it still work well at high diamond/lowmaster level on EU so i toss one or two of that sometimes.
1rax FE somtimes feel a bit pointless, because you're just playing equal footing with 1gate expand.
And well, protoss get better and better at defending the first timings with stim and medivac :p
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Terran micro is harder and more essential IMO for example banelings you don't micro you get completely rolled over. you don't micro storm your dead.
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On March 11 2012 12:46 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:44 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Then why is your thread titled "Where did all the terran's go?"? If the main point of your post is that you dislike PvT and find it to be stale, and you title the tread "Where did all the terrans go?"; what else do you expect people to infer from that? The majority of your thread is focused on that specific match up and nothing else. I simply stated my own reason for playing less, I did not presume to think that I knew why the number of Terrans has dwindled, thus making this topic in the first place. The root of this whole thread for me was to find out why other people thought less people play Terran now. If the General consensus is TvP then that's what it is.
So you created a thread saying that in your last 15 games you played fewer terrans and then decided to create a thread asking why people think that is? That is your evidence as to why there are fewer terrans? I played 7 PvT in a row one day. Should I post how there are fewer zergs playing SC2? And in the thread, you decided to talk about how much you dislike PvT? I dislike PvP a whole lot, but I don't think it is causing Protoss to leave SC2.
I fall to see the point of the discussion. It sounds like you have a bad match up that you could work on. We all have one of those. Mine if PvP, followed by PvT. I don't post about it or claim if affects how much I play.
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On March 11 2012 12:48 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:42 Zarahtra wrote:TvP seems to be the most common MU for me mid master on NA. I personally think for bad players like myself, it's just a bit disheartening to get all these nerfs in a row, especially when you aren't even able to be "op" before them, just because these sick skilled koreans can use the race so well, it keeps making your gameplay harder(as if it wasn't hard before them, assuming only decent micro). As a terran, the only reason I've not changed yet, is that I feel TvT is the least volatile mirror MU, where the best player wins, you can make comebacks and in general I just find it the most interesting. Edit: On March 11 2012 12:41 Noocta wrote:On March 11 2012 12:39 Plexa wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Lots of people don't understand TvP. For instance, by trying to play a macro game (i.e. "improving" your overall game) you are actually playing yourself into a disadvantage. TvP requires Terran to be hyperaggressive and win the game early, or gain a significant advantage before 15min. Don't know man. I keep saying the same thing to myself to justify me opening 2rax TvP but with every pro doing 1rax FE i feel guilty as fuck. Well personally I just say 2 rax is pretty much dead. I feel being aggressive with stim and medivacs is where it is at. You can be a lot more relentless and if you find an opening, you can just crush face. Atleast at my skill level, 2 rax just doesn't work anymore(this is assuming you don't atleast pull like half your scvs) I'm talking about 2rax reactor first in case. The one where you often don't even bring SCV. Depend on the map, but it still work well at high diamond/lowmaster level on EU so i toss one or two of that sometimes. 1rax FE somtimes feel a bit pointless, because you're just playing equal footing with 1gate expand. And well, protoss get better and better at defending the first timings with stim and medivac :p
Aye, obviously thinking 2 rax reactor first, normally accompanied with 3-4 scvs and 4-6 rines 1-2 rauders. I just normally at best trade relatively even with an econ build of a toss or crushed by a non-eco build. But like I said, I personally look at it rather that getting into 2 base, early midgame is where i can kill his sentries, I can drop his mineral line, I can take a quick 3rd without him being able to respond to it properly. I just feel with the long rush distances, it is always becoming easier and easier for protoss to simply hold off 1 base attacks(that aren't allins, ofc allins and cheese can pretty much always work), even if they are relatively FE.
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On March 11 2012 12:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 12:46 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:44 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:35 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:32 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2012 12:25 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 12:23 Plansix wrote:
Another balance whine thread, poorly disguised. Much like McCarthy, if you say something enough times, regardless of how true it is, people see it as truth. Look, Terran are disappearing from the ladder, do you see my cherry picked stats that I pulled from SC ranks. Sure Terrans are doing fine in Korea, always rank highly in the GSL, but that does not matter. What matters is that Grandmasters does not have a perfect 33/33/33 split.
Seriously, I am so tired of these threads. It is just a rehash of everything that was said before. I never ONCE said that I thought Terran was the weakest, I said it was the least played. If you're not going to actually read a post all of the way through you have no business posting. I reread your OP just to make sure. You go about one step from calling PvT broken, but don't cross the line. You use the choice line "I am not saying it's IMBA, but I do not like it", but then go in to saying that if things do not change, people may quit playing terran because they have to play PvT a lot. How can you say something is not broken and then say, in the next sentence, that the match up is so messed up that players will quit playing terran? You don't need to say something outright to imply it. No, I said I myself do not like TvP. I also stated that maybe I just don't get the matchup. I never said anyone else is quitting because they have to play a lot of protoss. I said when I (myself again) have to play one race much more than the other two it honestly gets pretty stale. The first part of the post is simply my own perspective on my games, the second half is the numbers and polls included. Then why is your thread titled "Where did all the terran's go?"? If the main point of your post is that you dislike PvT and find it to be stale, and you title the tread "Where did all the terrans go?"; what else do you expect people to infer from that? The majority of your thread is focused on that specific match up and nothing else. I simply stated my own reason for playing less, I did not presume to think that I knew why the number of Terrans has dwindled, thus making this topic in the first place. The root of this whole thread for me was to find out why other people thought less people play Terran now. If the General consensus is TvP then that's what it is. So you created a thread saying that in your last 15 games you played fewer terrans and then decided to create a thread asking why people think that is? That is your evidence as to why there are fewer terrans? I played 7 PvT in a row one day. Should I post how there are fewer zergs playing SC2? And in the thread, you decided to talk about how much you dislike PvT? I dislike PvP a whole lot, but I don't think it is causing Protoss to leave SC2. I fall to see the point of the discussion. It sounds like you have a bad match up that you could work on. We all have one of those. Mine if PvP, followed by PvT. I don't post about it or claim if affects how much I play.
You presume to know too much. You have no reason for bashing me yet you are.
If people did not feel like this was worth talking about, no one would have replied.
You disagree with my reasons for posting, that's fine but don't be so sour.
Those were my last 15 games, I did not feel like digging up a huge number of my replays.
I noticed the decrease over the last few months, not few hours.
What gives you the right to dictate where I'm allowed to post a simple question "why are Terran numbers dwindling"
I modified my post with more evidence as well but you seem to be completely overlooking that, only focused on negatives.
I suggest you not be so sour to people you don't even know.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On March 11 2012 12:49 EatsDirt wrote:
Terran micro is harder and more essential IMO for example banelings you don't micro you get completely rolled over. you don't micro storm your dead.
If splitting micro is giving you trouble, in TvZ you could go for a Full Mech composition which doesn't have to worry so much about banelings. It has its own drawbacks, of course, but it's less micro intensive in that regard.
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I face a lot of terran opponents on the ladder, which is frustrating for me because terrans players all-in a lot and I like macroing and playing long games. Even when you look at the stats, they're only like ~5% lesser than the other races, which shouldn't even be noticeable unless if you ladder a lot.
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On March 11 2012 13:01 Luppy1 wrote:
I face a lot of terran opponents on the ladder, which is frustrating for me because terrans players all-in a lot and I like macroing and playing long games. Even when you look at the stats, they're only like ~5% lesser than the other races, which shouldn't even be noticeable unless if you ladder a lot.
What league are you in?
If you're in Gold or under than yeah there are more Terrans, however the numbers decrease any higher than that by much more than 5%
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When I play on NA yes, when I play on KR I play vs terran most of the time.
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All the terrans went to grandmasters and bronze apparently.
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On March 11 2012 12:49 EatsDirt wrote:
Terran micro is harder and more essential IMO for example banelings you don't micro you get completely rolled over. you don't micro storm your dead.
Against banelings, you just need to kite your marines around tanks, which is not something difficult to do. I think it takes almost the same effort to do as controlling banes so that they dont run into tanks/marauders.
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huh? I still see a bunch of terrans vs anyone in like top 50 of NA. Terran at lower levels is harder because u have to micro units rathjer then get all ur marines blown up by banes or infestors. Terran when it comes to units Micro is harder but Macro is much easier where as Zerg is probably more so Micro easier and Macro much harder. So it all depends at diamond what their preference is
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On March 11 2012 13:04 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:01 Luppy1 wrote:
I face a lot of terran opponents on the ladder, which is frustrating for me because terrans players all-in a lot and I like macroing and playing long games. Even when you look at the stats, they're only like ~5% lesser than the other races, which shouldn't even be noticeable unless if you ladder a lot. What league are you in? If you're in Gold or under than yeah there are more Terrans, however the numbers decrease any higher than that by much more than 5%
On both NA and SEA, mainly SEA. At masters. I get like 3-4 terrans in a row very
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EPT
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