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Hi guys
I have a Razer Naga and I have really got used to using the buttons on the side of the mouse instead of the keyboard for my control groups. I don't use any of the macro's or bind anything apart from the numbers 1-12 that is on the mouse by default.
So I want to know for example if TLO showed up to a tournament with a razer naga and the same set-up no binds no macros just using the numbers on the mouse instead of the keyboard would it be allowed?
(edit: I doubt TLO uses this mouse just an example)
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depends on the tournament, but considering there is no "one button for multiple action" enabled, I see nothing morally unacceptable at allowing it.
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If they were not binded to anything, I assume they would be alright.
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It depends on tournaments. At lan competitions, its a grey area where people don't really care. but for major tournaments, its not allowed as people could anytime bind some other macros to it.
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I'm pretty sure that mouses with however many individual buttons are fine. The problem comes from 'macro keys', generally on keyboards, that can execute a preset string of button pushes. For example, I use a Razer mouse with additional buttons, and I have several important hotkeys bound there (v, b, c, something else), but i also have 10 macro keys on my board that I could bind something like '4,4,v' which would select and focus my screen to my first queen, and inject, all with one button. I don't do the second one because that is definitely illegal, but the first one is fine (i think), as long as you're keeping one button press on one button.
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On March 10 2012 23:21 SeventhPride wrote:
It depends on tournaments. At lan competitions, its a grey area where people don't really care. but for major tournaments, its not allowed as people could anytime bind some other macros to it.
Edit: What the guy two post above me said, that is assuming you can't bind more then 1 command to it.
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pretty sure its fine, its not any different than most other razer mice except it has more physical buttons. you can still for example make a side button on the deathadder into a macro that is not allowed. its more of the software, not the actual mouse
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On March 10 2012 23:22 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 23:21 SeventhPride wrote:
It depends on tournaments. At lan competitions, its a grey area where people don't really care. but for major tournaments, its not allowed as people could anytime bind some other macros to it. Edit: What the guy two post above me said, that is assuming you can't bind more then 1 command to it.
I don't know, but I think my drivers allow me to add more than one command to my logitech, deathadder, and SS mice. I know for sure on my logitech and DA I can program extra commands. Don't know how tournaments handle this b/c I think with most mice you can add multiple commands to the unused buttons.
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On March 10 2012 23:21 SeventhPride wrote: for major tournaments, its not allowed as people could anytime bind some other macros to it.
You can bind a macro anywhere ("F1-F12", even "a-z") The mouse doesn't have anything to do with it.
Yes that mouse is allowed even at MAJOR tournies, but it still needs to be 1keypress = 1 action
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i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
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On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
Can't tell whether this is a diss or not, probably quoting pro since that's the word OP used (not as an insult to Dario being considered a pro).
Fuck it, START THIS DRAMA TRAIN, THINK THE WORST OF THIS STATEMENT PEOPLE GOGOGOGO!
Edit: you > OP to avoid confusion
Double edit: OP doesn't specifically use pro, just implies it since he says TLO in a tournament setting.
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Yeah I don't know why people always mention the fact that can make macros with it when EVERY GOD DAMN KEYBOARD that pros use have the same functionality. I use the razer naga and I love it. I'd use it even w/o the side panel of buttons just because it feels so nice. For starcraft, the only use it gets is when i'm adding things to control groups I find it easier to use the side panel (so shift 1-0 and ctrl 1-0) if hitting the button just to select the control group i'll hit the keyboard key for 1-6 but the mouse key for 7-0. I think as long as I'm able to use the mouse I won't be developing bad mechanics, but to dismiss the mouse because it can create macros (which it doesn't by default and unlike alot of keyboards it doesn't possess the ability to do so with onboard memory)
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On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
not sure what..?
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If you have to use specific drivers for that mouse you will have to ask the tournaments people if that is allowed. If you can play without those drivers it is definitely allowed.
However i do not recommend to use these buttons, they might appear to be faster than keyboard keys, but they won't be faster after practicing a bit with your keyboard.
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[QUOTE]On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this [/
Wut
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On March 10 2012 23:21 ThatGuy89 wrote:
simple questions thread
Doesn't seem like that simple of a question,
Seems a little more complicated with binded buttons and rules allowing that.
Don't be ThatGuy...
+ Show Spoiler +Oh but you are ThatGuy 
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On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
what?
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Are the buttons even that easy to press or do you have to really pressed down on them.
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On March 11 2012 00:24 LaM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this what?
TLO pretty much has based his entire pro gaming career on innovating. I don't think any pro gamers use the naga mouse, even thought it could potentially give you an edge (by simply having more buttons at your fingertips. Not talking about macros), but if someone was to use it, it would surely be TLO.
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since day one i've had ctrl bound to the side button on my razer mamba. it makes for amazingly easy hotkeying. i never have to make a weird hand shape trying to hit ctrl+6 ^_^
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On March 10 2012 23:55 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this Can't tell whether this is a diss or not, probably quoting pro since that's the word OP used (not as an insult to Dario being considered a pro). Fuck it, START THIS DRAMA TRAIN, THINK THE WORST OF THIS STATEMENT PEOPLE GOGOGOGO! Edit: you > OP to avoid confusion Double edit: OP doesn't specifically use pro, just implies it since he says TLO in a tournament setting.
He is probably saying it because TLO is known for doing unorthodox things in his play. He likes doing things different and so if any pro was going to use a weird mouse like the Naga it would be TLO.
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you could hypothetically but you really really want to keep your mouse hand strictly for navigating. It might seem like an awesome thing but constantly repositioning your thumb to hit those buttons actually pushes the mouse slightly to the right and causes you to lift off as well as taking away from maneuvering. I've toyed around with a lot of different set ups including using mouse buttons.
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On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
Probably mad cuz he's not prepared for his up and downs. No reason to get mad at a hypothetical scenario
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If it's just for control groups it's fine
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On March 11 2012 00:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
Are the buttons even that easy to press or do you have to really pressed down on them.
Depending on the type of Naga you have (Naga epic or reg) there is a slight difference in the placement of the buttons. I personally use the Naga Epic, where buttons 1-12 are all usable via thumb, and there are two other buttons right below the mouse wheel. I don't see anything unfair about the naga, I only use the numbers for control groups and have burrow and fungal bound to the buttons under the wheel.
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On March 11 2012 04:05 Turo wrote:
since day one i've had ctrl bound to the side button on my razer mamba. it makes for amazingly easy hotkeying. i never have to make a weird hand shape trying to hit ctrl+6 ^_^
Thats a fucking great idea, you sir are a gentlemen and a scholar, I had not thought about that and I use a Naga.
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asdf. wrong thread. sorry. >_<
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simple rule, if you have to think about it, then no.
Other then that its just a decision if you want to win, because your gear was superior or because you were superior.
But don't worry if you chose the first path, you can explain it to yourself, that its your own skill, because you were clever enough to use it.
Personally i don't mind if others use stuff that helps them play better, makes it more challenging.
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The Naga just has a numpad on the mouse. It is fine to use as you are simply pressing numbers with your right hand rather than left.
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On March 11 2012 04:12 vileChAnCe wrote:
you could hypothetically but you really really want to keep your mouse hand strictly for navigating. It might seem like an awesome thing but constantly repositioning your thumb to hit those buttons actually pushes the mouse slightly to the right and causes you to lift off as well as taking away from maneuvering. I've toyed around with a lot of different set ups including using mouse buttons.
How does the Razer Naga cause you to lift off? I don't understand this at all. I have been using the Naga since ive started playing and though there are both advantages and disadvantages, mouse accuracy and control is not one of its problems. THe one problem I have observed is that it can tax your thumb if you play for more than an hour or two a day. However, you also have more and easier control groups.
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On March 11 2012 04:39 Rasun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 04:05 Turo wrote:
since day one i've had ctrl bound to the side button on my razer mamba. it makes for amazingly easy hotkeying. i never have to make a weird hand shape trying to hit ctrl+6 ^_^ Thats a fucking great idea, you sir are a gentlemen and a scholar, I had not thought about that and I use a Naga.
glad i could inspire you =]
takes a few games to get used to, but now i couldn't go back to using the one on the keyboard!
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The rules for the MLG Winter Arena prohibited any change of mouse or keyboard drivers. So, since I don't believe Starcraft 2 recognizes each of those buttons unless they are programmed in the mouse driver, I would say the mouse is allowed, but you wouldn't have most of the buttons for use.
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On March 11 2012 04:21 dgwow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this Probably mad cuz he's not prepared for his up and downs. No reason to get mad at a hypothetical scenario
I don't get where you see any madness here.
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On March 11 2012 04:55 Kaitlin wrote:
The rules for the MLG Winter Arena prohibited any change of mouse or keyboard drivers. So, since I don't believe Starcraft 2 recognizes each of those buttons unless they are programmed in the mouse driver, I would say the mouse is allowed, but you wouldn't have most of the buttons for use.
You dont need drivers for a Naga. By default they are just duplicates of the numpad keys. There is a switch on the bottom of the mouse that changes it from numpad to top row numbers. That is all it is, no macros, no drivers.
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You don't need a Razer Naga for this anyway.
Any1 with extra buttons on their mouse can just go to keybindings in SC2 and bind them to whatever they feel like.
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Several players in the GSL use the logitech G9x which has side buttons so I see no reason why the Razer Naga would be banned when the G9x isn't.
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Can we request a video of you using the mouse to better make a ruling?
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Only thing the razer naga does is allow you to press numbers with your mouse hand instead of your keyboard hand if you have no third party software. Don't see why that wouldn't be allowed.
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Blizzard does NOT allow the use of macros in Starcraft 2, 1 key doing more than 1 action is against their terms of use.
You can use any mouse or keyboard, but when you enable macros + use a macro they can and/or will penalize you. WoW uses warden to scan for illegal background processes, I can bet Starcraft 2 contains something similar - as there are people who have used macros and been caught and punished.
As far as Tournaments go, that will depend on the tournament. Any serious event will definitely not tolerate this in Starcraft/2.
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Iirc, MLG requires you to bring your OWN keyboard and mouse AND (usually) drivers. Like the mouse wheel/left click thing; it's a driver thing.
Honestly, unless there is a rule in some tournament forbidding the use of X mouse/keyboard OR not permitting you to do something, it's fine. If there's not a rule saying you can't, you can.
MLG Colombus 2012 rules:
http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/30#event_85_rules
Nothing saying you can't use it.
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It's allowed. As long as the buttons are only binded to one key. You can't have multiple keys on one press.
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Had nothing against TLO he is just my favourite player and the first that came to mind.
I just want to know because if I ever got decent using the mouse for control groups instead of the keyboard it would not be fun relearning how to use the keyboard instead xD
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It's allowed as long as it's a 1:1 button rebind. For example, pushing one button on your mouse to select your Nexus/CC/Hatch is perfectly fine, but pushing one button on your mouse to select your Nexus/CC/Hatch AND make a worker is not allowed in most tournaments.
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Came here because I use a naga.
ITT: HuK trying to dramabomb.
Pleasantly surprised!
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On March 11 2012 05:58 DeOnlineGamer wrote:
Had nothing against TLO he is just my favourite player and the first that came to mind.
I just want to know because if I ever got decent using the mouse for control groups instead of the keyboard it would not be fun relearning how to use the keyboard instead xD
I would just start to use the keyboard now... I mean you can buy different Keyboards but they will be pretty much the same all the time, but there will not always be a mouse like the Razer Naga.
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the naga is worse in my opinion than keyboard. thumb is slower than multiple fingers.
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I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed.
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As far as you stick to the rule of 1 button 1 action its completely legal so dont worry :D
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I use a Naga and have never been told I couldn't use it. Since I don't use the keys on it at all (just bought it because of the large size)
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On March 11 2012 07:39 masterbreti wrote:
I use a Naga and have never been told I couldn't use it. Since I don't use the keys on it at all (just bought it because of the large size) I have one and I've told a lot of people it's a small mouse when they asked what using it feels like etc. Guess we have different references.
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I'm pretty sure that as long as the buttons on the side of your mouse aren't macros (aka doing more than one thing at a time) than it's fine. I have a deathadder with two buttons on the side that I use for control groups 9/0 and I've never had any problems, but I don't play in tournaments so I can't really say.
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as long as 1 button on mouse= 1 button on keyboard theres no issue as far as im aware.
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On March 11 2012 04:55 Kaitlin wrote:
The rules for the MLG Winter Arena prohibited any change of mouse or keyboard drivers. So, since I don't believe Starcraft 2 recognizes each of those buttons unless they are programmed in the mouse driver, I would say the mouse is allowed, but you wouldn't have most of the buttons for use.
It works out of the box without drivers, depending on a switch on bottom it's either the numbers along the top of the keyboard, or it functions as the numberpad.
So without drivers this would allow you to hit 6-0 without moving your left hand. I use it for putting observers/tech on 8/9/0
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All Huk meant was that TLO is often known for doing unorthodox or innovative things. He's not trying to "drama bomb." You guys are silly.
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Null question because no pro would be stupid enough to think binding control groups to mouse buttons is useful in any way.
But the answer is yes, they can handicap themselves if they want to, you just can't use macros.
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On March 10 2012 23:39 HuK wrote:
i love how u use tlo as a reference, since he is probably the first "pro" that comes to mind that would do something like this
Haven't seen any of his super crazy strats lately though (besides that weird game vs MKP).
to OP, should be allowed as long as you only bind one hotkey to each mouse macro button and not some kind of chain commands.
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On March 11 2012 08:06 lysergic wrote:
Null question because no pro would be stupid enough to think binding control groups to mouse buttons is useful in any way.
But the answer is yes, they can handicap themselves if they want to, you just can't use macros. In a way I agree because I don't think using the extra buttons on the naga for control groups is very optimal. Control groups are usually used in coordination with mouse clicks and doing linked actions like that with one instead of two hands might be limiting. However, it can probably be an advantage for many other actions.
Having that said I'm sure mice and keyboards could be way way better than they are. Latest general mouse change was when two thumb buttons became standard like 10? years ago. They still have for example two normal buttons, why not 3 or 4? And there is plenty of room for more thumb buttons in the normal area on most models.
Razer tried something different with the Naga but it feels like the design was somewhat sloppy. Using the extra buttons isn't a problem what so ever in my experience, most people seem to get used to it in a couple of minutes. But if you look at almost any mouse, there is almost always room to add naga-like buttons further back without messing with the current thumb area. I'm a so called claw grip user and the natural thumb spot for me is right where they put the extra buttons on the naga.
If for example competitive sc2 was as big as competitive soccer or whatever there would most likely be tons of more optimized mice and especially keyboards. I'd probably use different keyboards for almost every game if I could.
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On March 11 2012 06:29 TAAF wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 05:58 DeOnlineGamer wrote:
Had nothing against TLO he is just my favourite player and the first that came to mind.
I just want to know because if I ever got decent using the mouse for control groups instead of the keyboard it would not be fun relearning how to use the keyboard instead xD I would just start to use the keyboard now... I mean you can buy different Keyboards but they will be pretty much the same all the time, but there will not always be a mouse like the Razer Naga.
As long as there are MMOs, there will be mice like the Razer Naga and also according to Amazon the Razer Naga is the best selling Gaming Mouse right now, so I don't think that's a well-thought concern about whether there will continue to be mice like the Naga.
On March 11 2012 06:35 EatsDirt wrote:
the naga is worse in my opinion than keyboard. thumb is slower than multiple fingers.
If you're completely replacing the keyboard number with the naga numpad then yes, but I would argue that shift + 7-0 is much easier to hit with the naga than with just the keyboard.
On March 11 2012 08:06 lysergic wrote:
Null question because no pro would be stupid enough to think binding control groups to mouse buttons is useful in any way.
But the answer is yes, they can handicap themselves if they want to, you just can't use macros.
I don't see how it would be a handicap to substitute the mouse numpad in certain situations (for instance binding 7-0) I think alot of people must have completely different shaped hands than me because my thumb rests over the numpad in a way that I can comfortably move the mouse accurately while hitting a numpad button with my thumb.
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EPT
