|
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things!
Your gay friend tolerates your jokes, he does not enjoy them. Quit being an asshole to your friend. If you're really his friend you'll quit using his sexuality as a talking point and you'll develop a sense of humor that doesn't make him seem like an outsider for something he can't control.
|
On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things!
You made gay jokes with a friend. Orb insulted a stranger by calling him black, a 'nigger'. How are those similar? Do this one day, get mad a stranger and call him a 'fag' with your gay friend beside you. Your friend can tell you how that feels.
Destroy someone's life? Whoa there. I guess criminals can make the same defense now. "Hey, I sell drugs for a living. You're hurting my business by arresting me!" I know it's a harsh example, but it's exactly the same in logic.
Orb is free to cast games and rebuild his casting career. Orb can do so now without publicly participating in behaviour that is deemed racist and unacceptable by the community. It's not a clear line, but like any social etiquette - better to err on the side of caution.
|
On March 09 2012 22:20 vasculaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:08 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:06 Uracil wrote:On March 09 2012 22:05 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:04 Uracil wrote:
It's ironic how this thread has nearly the same number of posts as the IEM and GSTL live threads together. Priorities. if we want esports to grow this is a bigger priority than any of those tournaments. Just shows that a lot of people are more interested in drama than the actual game. Not really im saying removing homophobic and racist language would be a big plus to raising esports awareness and acceptance socially, is that a hard point to understand? More people should listen to this guy.
Agreed, and read the disclaimers at the top. They already addressed Idra's attitude but ppl are still bringing it up every page.
|
A Fantastic statement. I fully support you actions and views and hope this will soon pass over and we can all focus on what is important to most of us here. And that is of course eSports and it's community.
|
On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things!
Pretty sure someone using racial slurs to personally insult someone else classifies as a racist, or is at the very least promoting racism and openly accepting it. Racism should be punished. Nobody forced orb to insult other people, nobody told him to use the word "nigger" to do that. It's his own fault, you are just pointing the finger at people who strongly oppose racism, people like me. I didn't originally post in any of the threads, so I definitely didn't participate in this, BUT I am extremely happy that orb got fired. Because it is a warning for others, orb is known for frequently using racist insults on his stream, I only watched his stream once and saw him call his opponent a "nigger". He can claim he isn't racist, fine... but that doesn't change a damn thing, insulting people with extremely offensive racist words makes you look like a racist. If I went around insulting jewish people by calling them names, would you buy it if I said that I'm not actually "anti-semitic"... I just "wasn't thinking"? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me.
edit: And by the way, joking around with a friend and insulting a stranger are two COMPLETELY different things and absolutely not comparable AT ALL.
|
people are conflating 2 issues
1) the guy was a dick abnd made racist comments ... v.serious and shuold be dealt with IN AN APPROPIATE MANNOR. IE you report it to the team and they deal with it because its nobody elses business.
2) The ongoing witch hunt to find *anything at all* slight wrong and start pages and pages of drama - preumably because all they ahve ever read is the infestation known as news papers.
I use the word gay all the time, i am not homophobic. Ive been using the word since before i know what it meant. I'm not defending the use of the word but YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT MEANT FOR HIM. Until you can answer that you have no idea if he is racist or not. If you don't know what i mean then you really are a simpleton - no excuses, its 2012. Meaning as objective analytical truth was thrown away many many years ago, you know it, i know it. So lets stop playing games.
Here comes a bus, quick find someone to throw undfer it.
|
Aww man stop talking about "race" all the time, a way overused word especially in America. I'm not an African American, but I'm from West-Africa, and I don't see this as racism and I can guarantee you that my kinsmen wouldn't either. We see this as an unhappy person who uses inflammatory words just to steer up feelings, provoke, attack and flame other people.
If the word "ONION" would be an extremely sensitive word historically that brings up a lot of negative associations with people, he would have yelled "ONION".
People who are bad will always use inflammatory words to provoke and harass other people. If you make yourself sensitive to certain words, you will have a difficult time in life because bad people are very talented in figuring out your weakspot, and then they will keep on calling you that forever just to be able to harass you.
And these bad people love doing it in the internet, where nobody can hold you accountable for what you do.
If you walked up to a lady and called her a very provoking sexistic term, I'm sure she would hit you or cuff you, because of your rude behaviour and rightfully so.
If you walk up to me on the street calling me racial terms, I will equally to the woman probably hit or slap you.
It's not more dramatic than that, just rude behaviour, nothing more.
|
On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things!
You have to remember, in any other public sphere, this conversation would not be happening, because he would have been fired and no one would defend him. Remember the golfer who asked Tiger Woods about fried chicken? No bad words, but he was instantly a social pariah. Orb is just being held to the normal standards of society, which we should strive for. We should not (IMO) strive to let people be as crass as possible, we should try and better ourselves.
I also feel bad for the guy, but he is young, and will bounce back hopefully.
|
Great to hear, justice is served!
|
On March 09 2012 22:17 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! So your friend would approve if you go to someone who pisses you off and call him "stupid faggot" with the full intension to insult him as hard as you can? Because if he doesnt, your whole posting is pointless. He did not joke. He actually said he tried to use the biggest insult he could think of. Speaks for itself, does it not?
the point I wanted to make is that there is a difference between words and actions.
Yeah orb raged badly and it made him look like a little, stupid kid. But you can in no way believe that he hates blacks and gay people, after readin these comments. These words were probably the strongest that came into his mind and he just spilled them out without thinking. But I feel I need to make one thing clear: I do not defend orbs stupid actions. But the fact, that people who have nothing to do with the whole situation make it their business to destroy his carreer, is sickening.
|
On March 09 2012 22:20 vasculaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:08 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:06 Uracil wrote:On March 09 2012 22:05 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:04 Uracil wrote:
It's ironic how this thread has nearly the same number of posts as the IEM and GSTL live threads together. Priorities. if we want esports to grow this is a bigger priority than any of those tournaments. Just shows that a lot of people are more interested in drama than the actual game. Not really im saying removing homophobic and racist language would be a big plus to raising esports awareness and acceptance socially, is that a hard point to understand? More people should listen to this guy.
And more of you EG-praisers should start commenting on the double-standards shown by EG and the community when it comes to people like Idra. Don't avoid that topic. If such language should be completely forbidden (which I disagree with) then it should apply to everyone
EDIT: not meant as a "personal attack"; for the sake of discussion I want to hear what the other side thinks of this.
|
On March 09 2012 22:27 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:17 m4inbrain wrote:On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! So your friend would approve if you go to someone who pisses you off and call him "stupid faggot" with the full intension to insult him as hard as you can? Because if he doesnt, your whole posting is pointless. He did not joke. He actually said he tried to use the biggest insult he could think of. Speaks for itself, does it not? the point I wanted to make is that there is a difference between words and actions. Yeah orb raged badly and it made him look like a little, stupid kid. But you can in no way believe that he hates blacks and gay people, after readin these comments. These words were probably the strongest that came into his mind and he just spilled them out without thinking. But I feel I need to make one thing clear: I do not defend orbs stupid actions. But the fact, that people who have nothing to do with the whole situation make it their business to destroy his carreer, is sickening.
Not sure how it works in Germany, but in America you get fired from your job for making racist comments. Orb was treated exactly like every other American employee in the country.
|
On March 09 2012 22:28 KaiserJohan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:20 vasculaR wrote:On March 09 2012 22:08 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:06 Uracil wrote:On March 09 2012 22:05 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:04 Uracil wrote:
It's ironic how this thread has nearly the same number of posts as the IEM and GSTL live threads together. Priorities. if we want esports to grow this is a bigger priority than any of those tournaments. Just shows that a lot of people are more interested in drama than the actual game. Not really im saying removing homophobic and racist language would be a big plus to raising esports awareness and acceptance socially, is that a hard point to understand? More people should listen to this guy. And more of you EG-praisers should start commenting on the double-standards shown by EG and the community when it comes to people like Idra. Don't avoid that topic. If such language should be completely forbidden (which I disagree with) then it should apply to everyone
Yes it should but economics dictates that it doesnt go read my starcraft metaphor and you might understand why idra or to an extent huk isnt being fired.
|
On March 09 2012 22:24 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! You have to remember, in any other public sphere, this conversation would not be happening, because he would have been fired and no one would defend him. Remember the golfer who asked Tiger Woods about fried chicken? No bad words, but he was instantly a social pariah. Orb is just being held to the normal standards of society, which we should strive for. We should not (IMO) strive to let people be as crass as possible, we should try and better ourselves. I also feel bad for the guy, but he is young, and will bounce back hopefully.
But jsu tbecause he was made a social priah doesnt make that right. You have totally misunderstood what that guy was saying.
In short
STOP CAUSING FIGHTS YOU IDIOTS, THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT. THe guy was made a social priah because people are ass hats to each other. You ahve a choice, join them and be a hater and live a miserable life that depends on others failures for you joy at their demise or you can just go 'crap that was a really stupid thing to say, do you realise that a lot of bigots will think your racist, are you racist? No, well i strongly suggest you stop usign that word or else we will have to take formal action'
|
On March 09 2012 22:28 KaiserJohan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:20 vasculaR wrote:On March 09 2012 22:08 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:06 Uracil wrote:On March 09 2012 22:05 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:04 Uracil wrote:
It's ironic how this thread has nearly the same number of posts as the IEM and GSTL live threads together. Priorities. if we want esports to grow this is a bigger priority than any of those tournaments. Just shows that a lot of people are more interested in drama than the actual game. Not really im saying removing homophobic and racist language would be a big plus to raising esports awareness and acceptance socially, is that a hard point to understand? More people should listen to this guy. And more of you EG-praisers should start commenting on the double-standards shown by EG and the community when it comes to people like Idra. Don't avoid that topic. If such language should be completely forbidden (which I disagree with) then it should apply to everyone
Maybe you should read the mod edit at the top of the page?
|
On March 09 2012 22:20 vasculaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:08 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:06 Uracil wrote:On March 09 2012 22:05 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:04 Uracil wrote:
It's ironic how this thread has nearly the same number of posts as the IEM and GSTL live threads together. Priorities. if we want esports to grow this is a bigger priority than any of those tournaments. Just shows that a lot of people are more interested in drama than the actual game. Not really im saying removing homophobic and racist language would be a big plus to raising esports awareness and acceptance socially, is that a hard point to understand? More people should listen to this guy.
I think some people who have been gaming their whole lives and are used to this type of langauge all the time maybe don't realize just how unacceptable most of this would be to say in any professional setting. If any public figure said these sorts of things they would be in deep trouble. In the same context I might add. If a sports star, politician, actor, journalist etc said stuff like this even while playing a video game and the recording or whatever became public they would take MAJOR heat for it, and there is a good chance they would be fired and they would be definitely heavily punished. I understand that some people here like to think of themselves as cutting edge and part of some kind of post-racist online society, but frankly that is wishful thinking at best.
|
Hypocrisy 101? Idra uses "faggot" while on the EG payroll and you don't fire him. Orb uses "nigger" while not on the EG payroll and you fire him. Not that I'm looking to get Idra fired, but I don't see how you can really defend yourself here, Alex. I wonder, if people raised hell about Idra (or anyone else on EG using the word "faggot") and called your sponsors, would you fire him then? This doesn't look so much like it's about standing up for people, but rather about you protecting your business. Understandable from a business perspective, I guess, but as one of those members of this community with principles/beliefs/whatever-the-fuck-you-want-call-them I object to your behavior.
Oh, one more thing, you should add r--e to that list. How do think rape victims feel when they hear that term casually thrown around? I'm sure there are more words, too, but you're right about one thing - This community won't go mainstream until it grows up a little as far as language/behavior is concerned. WELL, let's get started.
GL HF
|
And more of you EG-praisers should start commenting on the double-standards shown by EG and the community when it comes to people like Idra. Don't avoid that topic. If such language should be completely forbidden (which I disagree with) then it should apply to everyone
Alex comments on Idra: https://twitter.com/#!/ottersareneat/status/177964162113224705
Yes it should but economics dictates that it doesnt go read my starcraft metaphor and you might understand why idra or to an extent huk isnt being fired.
Alex comments on Idra: https://twitter.com/#!/ottersareneat/status/177964162113224705
Hypocrisy 101? Idra uses "faggot" while on the EG payroll and you don't fire him. Orb uses "nigger" while not on the EG payroll and you fire him. Not that I'm looking to get Idra fired, but I don't see how you can really defend yourself here, Alex. I wonder, if people raised hell about Idra (or anyone else on EG using the word "faggot") and called your sponsors, would you fire him then? This doesn't look so much like it's about standing up for people, but rather about you protecting your business. Understandable from a business perspective, I guess, but as one of those members of this community with principles/beliefs/whatever-the-fuck-you-want-call-them I object to your behavior.
Alex comments on Idra: https://twitter.com/#!/ottersareneat/status/177964162113224705
|
On March 09 2012 22:29 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:24 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! You have to remember, in any other public sphere, this conversation would not be happening, because he would have been fired and no one would defend him. Remember the golfer who asked Tiger Woods about fried chicken? No bad words, but he was instantly a social pariah. Orb is just being held to the normal standards of society, which we should strive for. We should not (IMO) strive to let people be as crass as possible, we should try and better ourselves. I also feel bad for the guy, but he is young, and will bounce back hopefully. But jsu tbecause he was made a social priah doesnt make that right. You have totally misunderstood what that guy was saying. In short STOP CAUSING FIGHTS YOU IDIOTS, THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT. THe guy was made a social priah because people are ass hats to each other. You ahve a choice, join them and be a hater and live a miserable life that depends on others failures for you joy at their demise or you can just go 'crap that was a really stupid thing to say, do you realise that a lot of bigots will think your racist, are you racist? No, well i strongly suggest you stop usign that word or else we will have to take formal action'
So you take his word that he's not racist? Seems pretty naive to me. And I don't see what's wrong with discussing ethics. If everyone were like you, we would probably still be in the stone age (morally). The only way to really fight against racism is to publicly oppose it as strong as possible. He called people "nigga", that is racism in itself, if he actually is racist or not doesn't matter, because his action were racists and should therefore be punished.
|
yes there is also that as ive mentioned before but i think the economics is the larger factor here. But I agree i havent seen idra say faggot in a while.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
