EPTI'm not saying that you can't use one to opine for a lesser charge for the former, but the argument that if you let one go you must let the other go is short sighted.
Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 97
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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ShatterStar
United States40 Posts
I'm not saying that you can't use one to opine for a lesser charge for the former, but the argument that if you let one go you must let the other go is short sighted. | ||
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Jaegeru
United Kingdom676 Posts
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
Obviously it would be completely inappropriate for EG to approve of any actual racism, but over the years I don't think orb has ever done anything that has made me think "that guy might be racist", including this whole incident. Now Alex was in a tough situation because of people bitching to his sponsors (who are for all intents and purposes can be considered his "boss"). Regardless of how he wanted to deal with the situations, the sponsor complaints probably left EG with no choice but to fire him. In the end it's just a stupid situation where noone has really gained except the people who complained about this (IMO irrelevant at this time) incident, who feel smug that they've probably wrecked the career of a promising caster. | ||
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silentsod
United States198 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:38 vZNuKE wrote: liberal faggot, what's new. UK is full of them, keep letting sandies enter your country and steal your money. Nuclear launch detected? I hope so! | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:34 Geen wrote: In America you get fired if you used the n-word in your free time, even if the event happened way before you even accepted the job? Do employers tell you when you can take a shit as well, or do you have some freedom with that? If you're a public figure? Yes you get fired for things you do in your free time. Hell, even if you're not a public figure most companies have a section in their employee manual that says "You represent the company at all times and what you do in your free time does matter." I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. No bigoted language. That's a pretty clear line to draw and it's also one that decent human beings manage to not cross every day. Why is it so difficult for the internet? | ||
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DR.Ham
Netherlands621 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:29 MrTortoise wrote: But jsu tbecause he was made a social priah doesnt make that right. You have totally misunderstood what that guy was saying. In short STOP CAUSING FIGHTS YOU IDIOTS, THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT. THe guy was made a social priah because people are ass hats to each other. You ahve a choice, join them and be a hater and live a miserable life that depends on others failures for you joy at their demise or you can just go 'crap that was a really stupid thing to say, do you realise that a lot of bigots will think your racist, are you racist? No, well i strongly suggest you stop usign that word or else we will have to take formal action' I was not causing a fight, I'm not really sure what you mean by that, please don't call me an idiot. This was caused by orb behaving in an unacceptable manner, no one else. I do think what he did was unacceptable, not to try and bring him down, but because that is where my moral compass lies. It certainly does not bring any joy, it's a really sad situation, but if people learn to behave a bit better, something positive can come of it. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:29 Klondikebar wrote: Maybe you should read the mod edit at the top of the page? Can you clarify? I meant that I don't hear enough comments from the other camp about the double-standards and for the sake of discussion would like to hear it. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it is due to economics, without a doubt it is. But that dosn't morally justify it, which is something those who are praising EG for their decision is trying to do, saying it was the right thing? | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
as do i  | ||
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Thrasherzs
United States10 Posts
Get us our own Reality Show Right after jersey shore, mad nerd drama caused by people getting hurt over the internet and others turning it into political propganda. the sad part is most people in here are over the age of 25 bashing people they dont know over 1 persons actions. live your own life and let others worry about their own business. User will probably be warned for this post  Thats like starting a war because you want their oil but pretend its because they have nuclear weapons and so are really saving the world. I see what you did there. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:33 ChaosTerran wrote: So you take his word that he's not racist? Seems pretty naive to me. And I don't see what's wrong with discussing ethics. If everyone were like you, we would probably still be in the stone age (morally). The only way to really fight against racism is to publicly oppose it as strong as possible. He called people "nigga", that is racism in itself, if he actually is racist or not doesn't matter, because his action were racists and should therefore be punished. I am not disputing that, what i am disputing is that if you look in the sc2 general forum every week there is a new witch hunt. This is one instance in a pattern of many. Its easy to go all hyperbolic with this as it is racism which in my view is basically a hate crime against humjanity. It should not be tolerated. Simple. Trust me im white, i got race guilt down. The problem is that there are many people just usign this as a vehicle for their vitriolic hate. Hence going direct to the sponsors etc rather than the team. Racism is a sensitive subject and so is a subject that peopel love to have cathartic rants about. That needs to stop bcause it is FAR more destructive than the origional comment ever was. Thats like starting a war because you want their oil but pretend its because they have nuclear weapons and so are really saving the world. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:39 DeepElemBlues wrote: Well no. I'm not much of a fan of Alex Garfield (I think he's rather mealy-mouthed) but when was the last time Idra called someone a "faggot"? He has a point. Idra using that slur was addressed and he doesn't use it anymore. Now you're asserting that just being BM should get you fired, because you want to portray EG as hypocritical. Stick to some facts please if you're going to make accusations and predictions for the future based on your manufactured self-righteous indignation. again, more bull shit. how many years has he been offensive in this community? just because he has stoped saying the word a few months ago does not make up for the years of him being offensive in the first place. congratz, it took him all this time to finally come clean. and guess what? he is still BM as shit, he just doesnt use the strong terms like "faggot" anymore. but he is still immature, BM, and non respectful to most ppl on ladder. | ||
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:40 dmfg wrote: Obviously it would be completely inappropriate for EG to approve of any actual racism, but over the years I don't think orb has ever done anything that has made me think "that guy might be racist", including this whole incident. Stop right there. He calls people "nigga" pretty much all the time when he's trying to insult them. Now, maybe he's not racist and just dumb, we don't know. But you make it sound like there is no way he might actually be racist, even though he uses racial slurs all the time in an extremely negative context. What does one have to do to be "racist".... kill a black person? At what point is someone actually "racist" and when is it just "idiocy"? | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
And people trying to minimize Orb's behaviour by pointing to Idra and Destiny need to realize this: I don't support their behaviour either and I will never watch them stream as long as they continue this behaviour. If Orb fixes his act, I will watch his stream again. He has made a public apology, and I think it is the correct step. I look forward to future content from Orb. But I am appalled at how people try to negate the issue. This in of itself is adding to the 'drama'. Don't like the drama? Just don't add to it then. | ||
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Ferric
United States22 Posts
All of that said, I understand EG's decision, but I sincerely hope this does not set the precedent for when any caster rages in a ladder match, even if its on stream. We all knew Orb could get pretty pissed off in a match that didn't go his way, and I for one still watched knowing this, just as I've watched Idra rage, and plenty of other pros/casters who are susceptible to the same type of reaction to a bad game. I never sought reason to demonize them publicly for it, let alone to call for someone to get fired. So, I guess really the interesting thing will be when Reddit finds out another caster can spout profanities on the internet and how that is dealt with. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:41 KaiserJohan wrote: Can you clarify? I meant that I don't hear enough comments from the other camp about the double-standards and for the sake of discussion would like to hear it. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it is due to economics, without a doubt it is. But that dosn't morally justify it, which is something those who are praising EG for their decision is trying to do, saying it was the right thing? Orb has been using racial slurs for YEARS and has even faced punitive action from TL before. But he continued to use them on the ladder and even in his stream. He showed no remorse and no desire to improve. Do not have a short memory about this. Orb has had this problem for a very long time and this is not the first incident nor is it the first time the community has called him out on it. IdrA on the other hand, when corrected by Alex, has stopped using homophobic slurs. People who are willing to clean themselves up and improve should be rewarded, not punished. One shows improvement. The other shows a complete lack of sensitivity. IdrA has earned his slack. Orb has earned his termination. | ||
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tapk69
Portugal264 Posts
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malaan
365 Posts
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JackDragon
525 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:22 plogamer wrote: You made gay jokes with a friend. Orb insulted a stranger by calling him black, a 'nigger'. How are those similar? Do this one day, get mad a stranger and call him a 'fag' with your gay friend beside you. Your friend can tell you how that feels. Destroy someone's life? Whoa there. I guess criminals can make the same defense now. "Hey, I sell drugs for a living. You're hurting my business by arresting me!" I know it's a harsh example, but it's exactly the same in logic. Orb is free to cast games and rebuild his casting career. Orb can do so now without publicly participating in behaviour that is deemed racist and unacceptable by the community. It's not a clear line, but like any social etiquette - better to err on the side of caution. so he can "rebuild his casting career" can he? Even though the reason he was fired wasn't for the time where orb denied that he said nigger. But because he admited that he said nigger one year ago before he got hired by EG. I just want to make it clear that I do not agree with the grounds on witch orb was fired. If Alex belived that orb said this while he was hired by EG or if he said is during a EG broadcast, sure fire him. I would not really mind. But if he did it during his free time AND long before you hired him I don't see any good reason to fire him. If he truly only said i a year ago or back in the beta and you fire him now because of that... That pretty much means he have been marked for life doesn't it? That said I think it is more the pressure from sponsors then anything else that force Alex to fire him. Togheter with his dislike of the word nigger. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On March 09 2012 22:46 Klondikebar wrote: Orb has been using racial slurs for YEARS and has even faced punitive action from TL before. But he continued to use them on the ladder and even in his stream. He showed no remorse and no desire to improve. Do not have a short memory about this. Orb has had this problem for a very long time and this is not the first incident nor is it the first time the community has called him out on it. IdrA on the other hand, when corrected by Alex, has stopped using homophobic slurs. People who are willing to clean themselves up and improve should be rewarded, not punished. One shows improvement. The other shows a complete lack of sensitivity. IdrA has earned his slack. Orb has earned his termination. destiny still uses offensive terms. he says faggot after every game he loses. TL has done shit about him so far. there is really no one to keep destiny tame because he is his own person, but TL can atleast take him off the featured list just like they did with orb. why have they not done so? i have no idea. i love destiny and watch his stream alot, but fair is only fair. orb does not deserve the heat he is getting considering its acceptable for idra and destiny. also orb HAS cleaned up over the last few months. and when he is casting he is very professional. so right now your being VERY biased. | ||
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